'71 Norton Commando Value

[Don Ivey]

A friend has an opportunity to buy a '71 Commando for $3K.  I've not seen the bike, and it has been sitting
for fifteen years (covered in a garage).  Pictures show it to be in very good condition, but sometimes they lie.  Let's assume it is in good shape (five out of ten).  Is the price reasonable?  Thanks,

 

[NCAmother]

Is it complete and does it run well?  If so, sounds like a decent price.  If it needs a major driveline overhaul, has botched wiring and/or a bent frame, I would probably pass.

[Lannis]

Uh Mom , it has been sitting for 15 years , probably ain't gonna run , let alone well  ;D

  Dusty

That's true, but if it's a stock complete Commando, $3K is about as good as you're ever going to see again .....

Lannis

[SPEIRMOOR]

If its complete its worth it

[pyoungbl]

A friend of mine paid $4.5K for a good running but cosmetically challenged one.  This was 18 months ago and was reputed to be a fair price at the time.  The bike came from a well known Norton wrench in DC.

Peter Y.

[PeteS]

Agreed if its stock and complete its a good price. In this condition it shouldn't cost another 3K to fix up if the owner can do it himself and there is very a little a competent mechanic can't do on this bike.

Pete

[menzies]

That is a fair price, rolling basket cases are bringing 1500-2000 from what I have seen.

[NCAmother]

Uh Mom , it has been sitting for 15 years , probably ain't gonna run , let alone well  ;D

  Dusty

Ahh!  missed that one!

[Kentktk]

Buy it!

[Lannis]

Have you priced valves or connecting rods for these things lately ? Or the superblend main bearings ? :) Yeah , fairly simple machines , sorta . How much is an isolastic rebuild kit these days ? And carbs , of course one could do the single Mikuni swap , still not cheap .

  Dusty

They make lovely new Amal reproductions these days, or the old ones can be sleeved and rebuilt pretty easily.   My Commando has the original Amals and they aren't a problem.   If I had to replace them, I don't think I'd go with a Mikuni as long as the original types are so easily available ... ?

Lannis

[oldbike54]

They make lovely new Amal reproductions these days, or the old ones can be sleeved and rebuilt pretty easily.   My Commando has the original Amals and they aren't a problem.   If I had to replace them, I don't think I'd go with a Mikuni as long as the original types are so easily available ... ?

Lannis

 Yeah , and I have done sleeve jobs , still costs money . How much are the reproduction Amals ? All I am saying is this , by the time you purchase tires , wheel bearings , electrical pieces , clean and coat the gas tank , replace neck bearings , fork seals , probably springs , and all of the other misc parts and pieces it takes to make an old Brit run and ride well , it is gonna be cheap .
 
  Dusty

[Lannis]

Yeah , and I have done sleeve jobs , still costs money . How much are the reproduction Amals ? All I am saying is this , by the time you purchase tires , wheel bearings , electrical pieces , clean and coat the gas tank , replace neck bearings , fork seals , probably springs , and all of the other misc parts and pieces it takes to make an old Brit run and ride well , it is gonna be cheap .
 
  Dusty

No, it isn't going to be cheap.  I didn't get the impression that the OP was looking for a cheap ride, because there isn't any such thing in the old Brit world any more, like there used to be.

They used to be the cheapest thing going.   In 1984, I was hanging around the old Triumph shop, which had moved into a little building with several trailers full of parts out back.    I said something about wanting a Triumph to go with my BMW, and the owner said "If you don't care about matching numbers, and just want a good-running bike, I'll build you a dual-carb 650, on-the-road for $400" and he just built it out of parts he had laying around.  He'd have done 10 of them if I wanted them.

Those days are loooooonnnnngggg past.   But if you want a running Commando today, you're not going to do much better than starting with a complete stock bike for $3000!

Lannis

[PeteS]

Have you priced valves or connecting rods for these things lately ? Or the superblend main bearings ? :) Yeah , fairly simple machines , sorta . How much is an isolastic rebuild kit these days ? And carbs , of course one could do the single Mikuni swap , still not cheap .

  Dusty

Unless this bike has blown up the connecting rods will be fine. Even racers use the stock aluminum rods. It really depends on total miles and miles since the last rebuild. I am with Lannis on the Amals. There are still guys that resleeve them and the new Amals are as good or better than the Mikunis. True a '71 won't have Superblends but thats a good question for the buyer to ask about. Isolastics? Maybe. I make my own plastic washers out of polypropylene. Maybe the isolastic internals will need replacing. Possible expensive bits, gas tanks, alternator rotors and stators. Gas tank can be checked for rust.

Edit. '71s had fiberglass tanks so no rust and if it hasn't been run in 15 years it might be a good thing because maybe the ethanol hasn't attacked the fiberglass.
Pictures would help here.

Pete

[normzone]

This was the bike my 24 year old self thought he was looking for when I stumbled over my first Guzzi. I'm glad things turned out the way they did.

[Don Ivey]

OK, thanks for all the responses.  I passed the info along to the fellow, and he seems ready to go for it.  Of course, I told
him if he didn't, I'd like to have a shot at it, as I've always thought the Commando was THE classic Brit bike.  He did say the
bike was sold to the current owner fifteen years ago by the wife of the owner when he went to prison.  And, he knows the bike
was running well when that happened, so looks like it might be a runner, with a bit of work.  The prospective buyer is a carpenter,
and has owned Harleys in the past, so not a total noob.  Again, thanks for all the comments and advice.  I'll pass it along.

[nc43bsa]

"Running when it was parked" or not, I'd count on splitting the cases and cleaning the crank sludge trap, at the very least.

Also, the charming thing about Commandos is that you can strip the engine down to the cylinder base gasket without removing the engine from the frame, and you can remove the entire engine from the frame without removing the transmission.

You can also remove the engine/transmission unit from the frame as one piece, if you wish.

[Don Ivey]

"Running when it was parked" or not, I'd count on splitting the cases and cleaning the crank sludge trap, at the very least.

Also, the charming thing about Commandos is that you can strip the engine down to the cylinder base gasket without removing the engine from the frame, and you can remove the entire engine from the frame without removing the transmission.

You can also remove the engine/transmission unit from the frame as one piece, if you wish.

That's good info.  Glad to see there's English bike knowledge nearbyjavascript:void(0);

[PeteS]

That's good info.  Glad to see there's English bike knowledge nearbyjavascript:void(0);

Don, FYI the Norton National Rally is July 13-17 in Asheville this year.

Pete

[Rough Edge racing]

 A Norton Commando is considered a step above other vintage Brit bikes by some. But a Norton is an acquired taste in my opinion...My experience is a properly sorted Amal gives more mid range power than Mikunis. New Amal Premier carbs with anodized slides are about 350 bucks a pair...Sleeving older carbs needs to be done properly with the right amount of slide clearance. Many fit the slides too tight and it causes low speed fuel  mixture problems.
 I never trust vintage Brit bike aluminum rods for riding in anger until they have been checked. If the big end is still round within half a thousands and no signs of overheating they are good to go. If the big end is out of round  it's time to replace it...And unscheduled engine disassembly of Brit bike engines is often due to incorrect timing from seized ignition advance units causing detonation from poor fuel or too much timing or overheating from retarded spark timing.
 A well tuned British bike used within it's design is a thing of beauty from the days of the when  motorcycle history was also British history. A machine that takes you away from the overweight over complicated modern stuff. A bad Brit bike is a nightmare...

[Rough Edge racing]

 Yeah the primary chain...The one on my Triumph race bike lasts about 10 minutes of racing time. But generally speaking a hobbyist mechanic can deal with working on them or rebuilding the engine. Modern electronic ignitions can eliminate timing variations...
 By the late 60's most British twins were tuned to verge of unreliability, they are 1930's engine designs and the original HP was doubled in 30 years. ... Most of the problems I see and hear about are from riders who lack "mechanical sympathy" for how the engine feels. They keep pushing until the crankshaft falls onto the roadway. Detonation for example will destroy a stock piston quite quickly..
 All vintage bikes can have issues including 60-70's Japanese stuff.

[luthier]

I've had Nortons. I had an Atlas that cost $7000, I spent $8000 on it and then sold it for $7000. Bad deal. I fully rebuilt the engine with our local guru Norton man, Dave Blissett. Did the Magneto with Peter Scott.
Had gearbox bits and advice from Peter Lynch RIP. But the bike was never reliable. A small ride up the highway seized her.. New pistons again. Had the Twin Amals resleeved to refit instead of the  singleMikuni that worked well but definitely didn't give max power. It seized after 10 K's with those amals. Ran too lean.
Then I found the timing was wrong for one side when the other side was right. The bad side was 8 degrees too advanced. But that magneto had been to the Peter Scott guru but he hadn't checked the accuracy of that timing cam.
Thus it blew up because the left side was too advanced and got too hot.
Perhaps fitting electronic ignition may have kept the thing going a lot longer but I doubt the bike could ever have rivalled my T3.
I was always conscious of the handling too on that Featherbed Frame. It seemed to be a little bent. Came from Ohio and had the bottom end welded where the cam followers had been punched through the case by the flywheel.
Obviously at that critical event this bike was thrown down the road. The tank had been beautifully repainted with a better red than original and the racing british cross flag sticker sat behind the filler cap.
But the handling was always below par and as a return to riding it made me uninspired to try corners like I once could.

This bike may be cool but a resto without cosmetics will cost you $7000 or more. If you do paint you'll spend about $4000 more and if you do chrome probably another $2000.
If this is your love, go for it. But never expect to come out even in dollar terms. It is expensive riding.
Guzzi will run for a very long time and sell again without a great price drop. Norton will take your dollars.

[Rough Edge racing]

Rough , maybe a belt primary would help . Sorry , but all of those loose rollers around the clutch basket , and the fact that the entire primary drive has to go on simultaneously is simply not something I want to deal with in my dotage  ;D

  Dusty

 A properly designed belt drive is about 1000 bucks. Cheaper belt drives still have the fault of a poorly designed bearing...A good quality Japanese chain is 35 bucks...The chain gets trashed from crankshaft flex causing harmonics that whip the chain like a snake in a hot oven. This is common at 60 hp and higher. The repeated abuse of the bike on the dyno makes it worse. It's just a racing maintenance item ....I can replace the chain in less than an hour ...

 luthier , your guru's didn't do their job....And if timing was checked on both cylinders as mentioned in manuals it wouldn't have happened.

[tpeever]

3K for a complete Commando is a great deal. Really nice sorted bikes are going for 10K and up these days. The other posters are absolutely correct, it will take your money in a big way just like any other vintage bike. Commandos can be reliable bikes if set up carefully and used within their design limits as someone already suggested. Depending on mileage, and how this bike has been used, it may require some engine work like new valve seats and valves, rings etc. There are a lot of upgrades available for Commandos that address basic design faults like crappy headsteadies and poor swingarm bearing designs. Also available are more easily adjustable isolastics, upgraded charging and voltage regulation systems, various types of electronic ignitions, single Mikuni carb conversions etc. All great mods IMO. If you do some of these (they do represent major improvements in driveability, handling and reliability), it will cost you. The original post doesn't say anything about cosmetic condition of the bike. Painting is very expensive these days. The fuel tank could be fiberglass, and if so, will need to be replaced with steel to stand up to modern fuels. Coating doesn't seem to work. Nice original fuel tanks are pricey but new Indian and Taiwanese repro tanks are available. Opinions on the quality and finish of these aftermarket tanks varies. There are also a lot of new aftermarket parts available for Commandos like Corbin seats, fancy rearsets, hydraulic clutches, improved breathers, Brembo brake kits, etc. from places like Colorado Norton Works. So it really depends on how many of the "strongly suggested" Commando mods you want to make and how much additional money you want to put into the bike to customize beyond these basic improvements to the design. The Commando is still my favorite bike (Guzzi is right there though!!) and is an incredibly fun machine to ride. Very useable classic British bike for modern roads.

[Kentktk]

Here`s some cool parts.

[lrutt]

I picked up my 73 Commando for $3500 and only had to put another $700 in it to get it sorted, running, and reliable. Well...add another $50 because I did do a pre-emptive layshaft bearing replacement this last year. And it's been running reliably now for 8 years.

Have to see the bike to know for sure, hard to tell from the vague description. Mine had sat in a barn for some 20 years, but it was straight, chrome and paint were still great.

So this is the before and after. All original paint on tank and side covers, original seat, all original chrome and pipes. Still runs the original Amals but I did put the new premier anodized slides in. Still runs points. She's a one kicker.

So for all those doom and gloomers that think you have to spend mega bucks to get one of these old bikes back on the road, if you buy a $500 crap heap you might be right. Pay a little more up front and save yourself the grief. But you do need to know these bikes and need to know what you're looking at. Nortons fetch good money these days and for good reason, they go down the road as good or better than any other vintage bike. 75mph is no problem at all. Iso kits are cheap. Now making sure it has superblends is a big deal, but mostly from a labor perspective.

Before:


After:

[56Pan]

Beautiful restoration.  How long did it take you?

[lrutt]

Beautiful restoration.  How long did it take you?

As I recall, it only took a few months. $3k for a Norton is usually a pretty darn good deal though.

but I did it right and tore it clear down to check everything.



And of course, the whole reason any good red-blodded American teen back in the 70's wanted a Norton to begin with :)   So much so I had to get a red one just like it.

[PeteS]

I Now making sure it has superblends is a big deal, but mostly from a labor perspective.

Before:


After:

Sweet! As for the Superblends, no doubt worth the effort but I ran my '71 without them for 40K miles before splitting the cases. Sometime around 20 K my slotted pistons broke. I replaced the pistons with Powermax 10:1s, picked up the big pieces out of the crankcase, and ran the piss out of it for another 20K. I was later told if you ran the bike at high RPMs the early bearings would be fine. It was lugging that broke the bearings.
As for the rods, when I finally split the cases they were all nicked up from the broken piston and rings. I sanded and polished them out and never had a problem since. I was picking bits out of the oil screen and when I checked the crankshaft one side was within spec and other only 1 thou under and this with no oil filter.

Pete

[Woodrow]

Here is another option for a carb.  They used to sell for about 50 to 75 bucks.  Your Harley CV.   Works well on my 72 750.



Woodrow
Northern Wisconsin

[brenwin]

A friend has an opportunity to buy a '71 Commando for $3K.  I've not seen the bike, and it has been sitting
for fifteen years (covered in a garage).  Pictures show it to be in very good condition, but sometimes they lie.  Let's assume it is in good shape (five out of ten).  Is the price reasonable?  Thanks,

 

I just sold a 74 850 for $8500 after having it since 2008 . It was an original numbers matching low miler . Original paint all the way . If I added up all the receipts for parts and labor over the years I'd be out about $10,000 . I think Irutts 73 experience is an anomaly but who knows maybe your buddy has that one in a thousand beauties . They are a difficult machine to sort for most and require constant tinkering to keep on the road in good condition.  I've got the "prince of darkness" trophy in the garage for most times replacing the Lucas wiring harness . Super blends required for sure , maybe turning the cylinder heads , new rings and other motor repairs depending on how well it was looked after while it was running and amal carbs are a pain in the arse , basically just pot metal , I'd give the Mikuni consideration .  71 was not the best year for Nortons coming out of the factory either . Most Nortons have less than 10000 miles on them while the average 70s Guzzi has 30-40000 miles , that tells you something . The only thing I miss about the Norton is looking at it but I understand the obsession so best of luck to your buddy .