Oh, the irony

[faffi]

I am getting old. Throughout life I have observed that as people age, they get more careful. More aware of risk and danger, more afraid of getting injured.

There is some logic to this, of course, as the older we get, the harder it is to bounce back to full health after injury. And we get injured more easily.

On the other hand, if we have already lived - more or less happily - for 60, 70 år 80 years, why should we stop doing things we love just because of risk? I mean, if you end up as a paraplegic at the age of 20 due to some risky actions, your time spent in a wheelchair will be drastically longer than if the same thing happens at the age of 80.

But here I am, just weeks away from turning 60, finding myself erring more and more often on the side of caution. I do not get the pleasure from pushing the envelope like I used to. I now find myself taking some caution that I did not do 10 or 20 years ago, be that when riding motorcycles or lifting weights or running down slippery slopes.

I am, quite honestly, slowly turning into a wuss.

[ScepticalScotty]

I'm 57 and hope never to stop doing what I love doing. However I have never been all that wild reckless and crazy - even when I was a teenager. I plan to get back to surfing this year, but I won't be surfing the waves i was when I was 20. Small fun waves will be fine for me. Chilled waves. Same with riding, no need to go particularly fast. On a motorway I am slower than a lot of cars, on a winding road..faster than most of them. I have never felt the need to hit the ton every ride to enjoy it.

[ff73148]

I am getting old. Throughout life I have observed that as people age, they get more careful. More aware of risk and danger, more afraid of getting injured.

There is some logic to this, of course, as the older we get, the harder it is to bounce back to full health after injury. And we get injured more easily.

On the other hand, if we have already lived - more or less happily - for 60, 70 år 80 years, why should we stop doing things we love just because of risk? I mean, if you end up as a paraplegic at the age of 20 due to some risky actions, your time spent in a wheelchair will be drastically longer than if the same thing happens at the age of 80.

But here I am, just weeks away from turning 60, finding myself erring more and more often on the side of caution. I do not get the pleasure from pushing the envelope like I used to. I now find myself taking some caution that I did not do 10 or 20 years ago, be that when riding motorcycles or lifting weights or running down slippery slopes.

I am, quite honestly, slowly turning into a wuss.

I'm 75 and I still enjoy riding two wheels. I will admit that for touring with my wife I purchased a Can Am Spyder. Owning the Spyder is my way of slowing down. Riding motorcycles keep you young!

[pehayes]

Regina's (now deceased) Uncle Giovanni was still riding his own moped at 96 the last time I dined with him.  My hero!  Its OK to downsize and still have fun.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[mechanicsavant]

As a pilot friend of mine says “there are old pilots,there are bold pilots . There are no old , bold pilots . The same can be said for M/C riders . As a rider over seventy & over 300 k Mi. Under me I treasure every moment riding . Also , the older I get the faster I used to be !

[Huzo]

I guess you have to address the situation of risk mitigation.
You could make the case that if you indulge in risky behaviour today, it has no effect on whether or not you indulged in that same risky behaviour yesterday. That would suggest that risk taking actions are mutually exclusive…(what you do today is not affected by what you did yesterday).
It’s the quandry that this addresses…
If you win the lottery today at a 100,000:1 chance, does that reduce the chance of you winning it next week…?
No.

A better example of cumulative risk taking behaviour is that you have 100 revolvers, one of which is fully loaded.
You pull one out and point it at yourself and pull the trigger…
You survive and you discard it.
Then you select another..
The chance of a fatal shot has now increased, but if you put the first revolver back in the group of 100…?
Your chance of dying has not altered, it is still 100:1 and will remain that way if you keep replacing the weapon.

The definitive argument is..
The chance of winning the 100,000:1 lottery twice in a row is 100,000 squared, or 10,000,000,000
The chance of winning it again next week after you’ve won it today is 100,000

You would think the question is the same, but is not.
Risk taking behaviour is the same type of conundrum, you do not increase the chance of dying today, if what you did yesterday is mutually exclusive.
But if you took a risk yesterday and rode over something that damaged your tyre, then rode hazardously fast today…?
Then yesterday’s risks increased today’s possible danger level.

[JJ]

I'll be 70 August 8th of this year.    

54 years of riding motorcycles on the street and 34 motorcycles of all shapes, sizes, and brands owned and ridden.

I recently sold my 2014 Victory Vision Tour, after 10 years ownership from new because I have become "Phobic and Paranoid" about riding two up anymore.  Don't care about myself, personally, but I have grown worried about getting into a bad accident with my wife on the back.

That's really the only thing that has bothered me about riding motorcycles in my old age.

I will keep my Centauro GT and continue to ride as required, but would like to get something lighter and smaller in the future, just to putt around locally...

Riding is living, and riding a motorcycles is 90% mental and 10% physical...so as long as your mind and confidence is with you, you should be OK.... (IMHO, I think, anyway...)

The late "Griso-George", 85+ years young), from near Seattle, WA used to ride his Griso solo to Datil ever year for many years.  He was a real gentleman and once told me, after his children and grand children told him he was too old to ride motorcycles anymore - - - "JJ...never sit down in a chair...just keep moving."

[faffi]

I guess you have to address the situation of risk mitigation.
You could make the case that if you indulge in risky behaviour today, it has no effect on whether or not you indulged in that same risky behaviour yesterday. That would suggest that risk taking actions are mutually exclusive…(what you do today is not affected by what you did yesterday).
It’s the quandry that this addresses…
If you win the lottery today at a 100,000:1 chance, does that reduce the chance of you winning it next week…?
No.

A better example of cumulative risk taking behaviour is that you have 100 revolvers, one of which is fully loaded.
You pull one out and point it at yourself and pull the trigger…
You survive and you discard it.
Then you select another..
The chance of a fatal shot has now increased, but if you put the first revolver back in the group of 100…?
Your chance of dying has not altered, it is still 100:1 and will remain that way if you keep replacing the weapon.

The definitive argument is..
The chance of winning the 100,000:1 lottery twice in a row is 100,000 squared, or 10,000,000,000
The chance of winning it again next week after you’ve won it today is 100,000

You would think the question is the same, but is not.
Risk taking behaviour is the same type of conundrum, you do not increase the chance of dying today, if what you did yesterday is mutually exclusive.
But if you took a risk yesterday and rode over something that damaged your tyre, then rode hazardously fast today…?
Then yesterday’s risks increased today’s possible danger level.

Highly unexpected reply. I love it! So refreshing every time I understand that I am not alone in thinking alternatively, or a topic trigger my brains inner workings into going a bit off tangent, albeit still within touch of the original topic. Thank you for taking the time to write a very interesting reply!

[faffi]

Thank you also to the rest of you who have taken the time to reply.

I should probably clarify a few things. First, I have zero intention of quitting my motorcycle riding. However, I now very rarely corner hard enough to scrape hard parts, because the risk of being leaned over 45 degrees is a magnitude riskier than leaning over 35 degrees. Theoretically, you have zero grip left for braking or accelerating in the former case, and about 85% (compared to being upright) in the latter case. I have suffered 50-60 broken bones plus plenty of soft tissue damage, including internal organs, and I have reached a point where I no longer just shrug off the risk of breaking another bone. I simply do not get enough pleasure out of riding at the limit to warrant the massive risks involved.

You could perhaps say I am becoming more responsible 

[Scout63]

I did quit last October after 45 great years of riding.  I turned 60 and can finally see retirement as a real possibility.  I want to spend the time I’ve worked so hard for traveling with Sara, playing golf, fishing, etc. It just seemed that I have more to lose now.  The decision was much less conscious than that though - the voice in my head calmly told me it was over while riding the Vincent home from work last Fall.  When I quit a weight lifted from my shoulders.

[PeteS]

I haven’t lost my desire to ride fast but realize age takes a toll. Eyesight is poorer, reflexes slower, less strength, and less ability to concentrate. There are still many club racers out there in their 60s, 70s, even 80s but none riding in MotoGP that I am aware of.

Pete

[fotoguzzi]

I only ride on sunny Sunday afternoons now. If you still want to go just as fast (Or faster) get a Tesla, it’s exhilarating!

[rocker59]

I have suffered 50-60 broken bones plus plenty of soft tissue damage, including internal organs

d00d!  50+ broken bones?

I can see why you might want to slow down a little bit.

I've made it 57-years with Zero broken bones and only a little road rash.

But yeah, I've slowed down a bit in recent years.

[Zenermaniac]

My motorcycles through the years followed the typical bell curve. Starting with a 100cc Yamaha Twin 2 stroke gradually getting bigger and bigger, peaking with a GoldWing Aspencade and on the down side of the curve I’m down to my current V9 Roamer. I don’t take long trips anymore and the wife lost interest in riding years ago. My riding style is now more sedate and less risky. At 73 y.o. I’m finding the V9 a tad bigger than necessary. I could have just as much fun on something smaller, like the new Triumph 400. I wish Guzzi currently made a 400cc range bike.   

[Tkelly]

The dilemma for  healthy geezer bikers,hang on to what we got or don’t look back something might be gaining on us.I never realized I was a slow rider until a few years ago when I started riding in the NC mountains with folks who are fast.I have dabbled in attempting to ride fast but found that it was more stressful than fun.At 79,I savemy fast bursts for straight roads and enjoy meandering thru the twisties.

[SemperVee]

  I call it "managing my risk"...   Each year that passes that I edge closer to 70 I ride less it turns out.

    My friend who was a too fast rider by all account would joke to me and making little sense was " The Faster I ride the less time I am on the road, the safer I am"...   Funny the logic we talk ourselves into.

[faffi]

There are still many club racers out there in their 60s, 70s, even 80s but none riding in MotoGP that I am aware of.

Pete

 

[Dave Swanson]

It's uncanny how many of us are right around that magic 70 mark!  I will turn 70 this July.   

I have noticed the trend to moderate also.  My favorite 300 mile day ride is in the Drift-less region of SW Wisconsin.  Over the years I have stitched together a route with maximum curves per mile that is pure bliss.   I am sure Tom Kelly and others will agree that these are some of the best motorcycle roads anywhere.  In years past I would always would get that pumped up feeling before this ride and fall into trying to run a perfect line through every curve a bit faster than the outing before.  Over the years due to a bit of over exuberance on 3 separate occasions I have collected 5 broken bones on this route - 4 ribs and 1 thumb.  None of which prevented me from riding home, but with a lot of wincing of course. 

Last fall I set out by myself on the old 300 miler and settled into a much more relaxed pace.  I took a bit more time to appreciate the scenery and did not scold myself for taking that last curve slower than I would have not too long ago.   I stopped to take a few more pictures than usual and tried to focus on just how lucky I am to still be riding and enjoying the day.  It is actually freeing to shed some of that pent up aggressiveness behind the bars of the not too distant past.  Maybe it is wisdom, slower reflexes, or less desire to break bones, but it still can be very good! 

The V85TT was the perfect machine for this ride.  Although it can certainly haul ass and corners extremely well,  it doesn't seem to beg you to wick it up continually.  It is becoming my favorite bike going into my twilight years.     Things have definitely changed. Up until 2 years ago I was pining away for a Tuono.  Nowadays the Tuono isn't on the list. 

[jcctx]

Just turned 81; about 5 years back my eye sight finally worsened to the extent I no longer trusted myself to ride. Sold all but one old collector bike; two years back donated it to a food bank. I still hang out here just to keep up~ been here since 2002. Know, or have met many of the participants during this period of time. Hope to stick around as long as I am welcome!!

Joe

[faffi]

d00d!  50+ broken bones?

I can see why you might want to slow down a little bit.

I've made it 57-years with Zero broken bones and only a little road rash.

But yeah, I've slowed down a bit in recent years.

Broken bones are overrated 

The fun(?) thing is that after I began stem cell treatments, where the doctor use instant x-rays to see where he place the injection needle, several injuries I did not know about have been uncovered, including a broken back, a broken collar bone (I have been pleasantly surprised no collar bones have caved in despite all the prangs, but apparently that was wrong) and crushed cartilage.

Strange as it may sound, apart from the long term effects that have handed me arthritis in my hands and shoulders (level 4 = no cartilage left, just bone on bone), I am happy for the injuries. Coming back after massive trauma stronger than before, even if some comebacks have taken a couple of years, have been satisfying. I could do without the chronic pains I have had for 40+ years, but learning to ignore them, or at least put them to the back of my mind, has also been a valuable lesson.

[faffi]

My motorcycles through the years followed the typical bell curve. Starting with a 100cc Yamaha Twin 2 stroke gradually getting bigger and bigger, peaking with a GoldWing Aspencade and on the down side of the curve I’m down to my current V9 Roamer. I don’t take long trips anymore and the wife lost interest in riding years ago. My riding style is now more sedate and less risky. At 73 y.o. I’m finding the V9 a tad bigger than necessary. I could have just as much fun on something smaller, like the new Triumph 400. I wish Guzzi currently made a 400cc range bike.

I agree. My KZ400 was massive fun on gnarly backroads, for instance. Guzzi have the tradition for making lower capacity bikes, and the V65 was about 40 lbs lighter than the V7 Classic, and nearly 100 lbs lighter than the current V7 850 Special. The V35 and V50 was slightly lighter still. Perhaps, if the market seems attractive enough, Guzzi will launch a new small capacity model.

[faffi]

It's uncanny how many of us are right around that magic 70 mark!  I will turn 70 this July.   

I have noticed the trend to moderate also.  My favorite 300 mile day ride is in the Drift-less region of SW Wisconsin.  Over the years I have stitched together a route with maximum curves per mile that is pure bliss.   I am sure Tom Kelly and others will agree that these are some of the best motorcycle roads anywhere.  In years past I would always would get that pumped up feeling before this ride and fall into trying to run a perfect line through every curve a bit faster than the outing before.  Over the years due to a bit of over exuberance on 3 separate occasions I have collected 5 broken bones on this route - 4 ribs and 1 thumb.  None of which prevented me from riding home, but with a lot of wincing of course. 

Last fall I set out by myself on the old 300 miler and settled into a much more relaxed pace.  I took a bit more time to appreciate the scenery and did not scold myself for taking that last curve slower than I would have not too long ago.   I stopped to take a few more pictures than usual and tried to focus on just how lucky I am to still be riding and enjoying the day.  It is actually freeing to shed some of that pent up aggressiveness behind the bars of the not too distant past.  Maybe it is wisdom, slower reflexes, or less desire to break bones, but it still can be very good! 

The V85TT was the perfect machine for this ride.  Although it can certainly haul ass and corners extremely well,  it doesn't seem to beg you to wick it up continually.  It is becoming my favorite bike going into my twilight years.     Things have definitely changed. Up until 2 years ago I was pining away for a Tuono.  Nowadays the Tuono isn't on the list. 

Beautiful scenery 

I found that tranquility on the Roamer V9, and am very thankful for it.

Years back, in 2002, I bought a VN800A, and it also gave me that relaxed feeling, and suddenly straights were great for taking in the scenery, nothing dreadful to endure in order to get to the twisties. For a while, that Vulcan gave me the most fun I had ever had on a motorcycle, despite not working well in the twisty bits. After 8000 or so happy miles, my brother swapped his KZ1300 for a Daytona 900, and a mate swapped his SRX6 for a RF900, and suddenly it was no fun riding with them anymore, because the bikes were so unevenly matched. So I swapped the 800 for a GSX600F Katana, and we were back to square one.

[jcctx]

Even tho I could not ride it, a 425 single using one jug off one of the 850s sounds fun!!!

[faffi]

Just turned 81; about 5 years back my eye sight finally worsened to the extent I no longer trusted myself to ride. Sold all but one old collector bike; two years back donated it to a food bank. I still hang out here just to keep up~ been here since 2002. Know, or have met many of the participants during this period of time. Hope to stick around as long as I am welcome!!

Joe

I find it important, for both you - and others no longer able to ride - and us that you stick around. There are fun and information to be had for all parties.

[Stretch]

Very interesting thread.

I just now finished rereading, "Jupiter's Travels" and am now reading - or rereading -
(can't remember which!), "Dreaming of Jupiter."  I've just gotten to the point where
Mr. Simon is in Kenya recovering from a broken leg after a fall in the mud - at age 70.
He's 93 or so now, and rode well into his 80s.

It's arguable that it was safer riding a bike in traffic 20 years ago, and safer still in
1973. What I would have viewed as a traffic-jamming challenge back in 1980, I prefer
to avoid these days. Big cities on big touring bikes look like absolutely no fun at all at
the moment. And we haven't even discussed parking!


I, for one, am going to be mightily disappointed if I can't ride for at least two decades
after my retirement in a couple of years. I'm 63 now, but I still feel like 19 on a bike.
I realize that I'm probably not going to be riding my enormous Rocket III Touring or the
(merely big!) Cali Touring two-up when I'm in my 90s, but I'm looking forward to being
out there in the wind. I oughta be able to mange the KLR and the K75 for awhile yet....
The former racer Dave Croxford is still riding in his 80s, and his
workout routine and resulting physique are impressive indeed. Our own Nick Adams is
north of 70, and he and his trusty Eldo look to have a good few more adventures left in
'em. The late Ardys Kellerman rode until she was 81, and her long-distance exploits make
many of the rest of us look like wimps! So, I'm inspired to continue on....   

"Just keep breathing and riding motorcycles."
                     
                   -the late Fred Marsh at 100 years old

                                                                       -Stretch

[faffi]

I reckon I will be quite strong even at 80, if I do not get ill, but not nearly as agile as a teenager. However, the arthritis will be the primary thing to keep me from wanting to risk having another serious injury, because my wrists and shoulders will prevent me from taking care of myself if I become wheelchair-bound.

One example to inspire those thinking one cannot stay fit late in life - Robbie Robinson used to be seen on the cover of Muscle & Fitness all the way back to the 70s!

[s1120]

Im thinking about this a lot lately. My wrists are smoked. Past injuries crept up on my last year and have to deal with at least some level of daily pain, and if I went down on them no saying what I would have left. I earn my pay wrenching, and all hobbies involve wrenching on some level, so I tend to save the wear and tear for that. Ive slowed a lot. Most of my joy riding is curvy 45mph roads local to me. Im "only" 58 but for now my 1100 stone fills the bill. Big enough to be all I need, but not so big that its overwhelming. Every year I seem to ride a little less, and only for nice days. I dont even think I put a grand in it last year with all the rain we got.. But Im OK with it. Its still nice to ride when the feeling hits, and I pushed aside the thoughts of "I really should take the bike its been awhile"out of my mind.

[jamesfjamesf]

cumulative risk taking behaviour

A great perspective. However the OP said "Throughout life I have observed that as people age, they get more careful." This may be true over the long term but over the short term I have noticed (starting with myself) that if one survived a chance they took yesterday, they will increase the magnitude of that chance today, because it's more fun. So risk is accumulating, until there is a giant reset, i.e. "holy crap that was close", and only then do they slow down by a great magnitude. And then slowly speed up again 

I notice I've had to slow down, despite being the most "knowledgeable" I've ever been, because of processing power. Used to be I could glance over my shoulder and take in a world of information in a split second. Now I need to look 5-6 times before crossing the street in order to properly assess the speed of oncoming vehicles and determine likely trajectories. I blame ADD!

jim, 59 last week

[snobear]

I am 66 now and things do change with age.  I am a little more cautious going into remote areas with the dirt bikes as they are getting more difficult to pickup after a get off.  I also find myself doing a few more trips to the chiropractor after some good riding adventures.  I have no plans to quit riding but do find that I am moving to more relaxed riding, taking more time and more photos on the way.  My trips to the Yukon used to take me 2 1/2 weeks, now I do 3 to 4 weeks and just enjoy it more.
I spend a lot of time wrenching on bikes and even as the riding may slow at some point in the future the shop work will continue.
I am riding a California II as one of my bikes now and 10 years ago would not have considered such a thing.  There is still nothing better then getting out and riding for a few hrs regardless how aggressive or relaxed it is.

[John A]

At some point in my early road riding as I contemplated being lnjured or deceased doing something that I loved, I decided to make the old riders who still successfully rode my role model . My dad quit riding in his sixties because he thought his reaction time was getting too slow. I’m not going to quit just yet but in my seventies I can appreciate his observation.