HID lights are they worth the cost and effort?

[Farmer Dan]

Thinking about converting my '72 Eldordado to a HID head light.  I work second shift so half of my driving is at night.  Does anyone have any first had experience with HID lights?  Are they really that much better?  $40 and an hour to install the conversion.

http://www.ddmtuning.com/Products/DDM-35W-55W-Single-HiLo-Motorcycle-HID-Kit

[nikwax]

I had HID converted headlights on my 1150GS. The 1150GS has one of the worst headlights in existence. The HIDs put out more lumens of light per amp of power used. Better? Well...consider that a headlight consists of a reflector, a lens, and a bulb. The element of the bulb must be precisely at the focus of the reflector in order to produce the most coherent light. An HID kit will not have the element in the correct place, so you end up with more lumens but not necessarily "better" light. Light will scatter rather than be focused.


Installation: you likely need to drill out the back of the mounting plate to accommodate the large plug from the ballast. You also have to locate and mount the ballast unit. An hour or so is about right.


My opinion: I don't like looking into all the poorly focused, scattered aftermarket HID lights that are on the road.


I did a lot of night commuting and riding, I got a lot more out of a set of fog lights that I could have on most of the time. I never had anyone flash their lights at me, including LEOs.

[wrbix]

My experience was exactly the same as nikwax's, on exactly the same motorcycle.

But......I believe one can now get HIDs that replace H2 and H4 bulbs and therefore put the focal point in correct place.. Recently found this true w my LR Def90 automobile.

[Farmer Dan]

The kit I'm looking at replaces the sealed beam 6024 bulb with a housing that will accept the H4 bulb in an HID flavor.  Does that sound any better?  Or should I just get a set of Hella driving lights and mount them?

[wrbix]

The kit I'm looking at replaces the sealed beam 6024 bulb with a housing that will accept the H4 bulb in an HID flavor.  Does that sound any better?  Or should I just get a set of Hella driving lights and mount them?

If the HID bulb is intended as a direct replacement for an H4 and the reflector is designed for an H4 should be the idea but would ask the vendor the focal point question

[Wayne Orwig]

Do it.....

Maybe....

I also work second shift. My commute home every night encounters deer, and drunks. The deer are more predictable.
Also, the plastic Stelvio reflectors were melting. On high beam, the Stelvio burns the high AND low beams. That is just too much heat.
So I installed a DDM tuning H4 Hi/low kit. Another problem with the Stelvio is that there is a huge amount of scattered and wasted light. The HID Hi/low bulb has a large built in shield. That reduced the scattered light and actually reduced the scattered light on low beam, that scattered up into the oncoming traffic. So the DDM tuning Hi/low not only helped me see farther on high beam, it reduced the blinding scatter on low beam. Perfect.
Next up was the EV. The single headlight on the EV actually out performed the Stelvio, because of the Stelvio's crappy reflector! But with the HID setup, the Stelvio was the clear winner. So I got a single Hi/low H4 for the EV. The next issue is that the Hi/low magnet is huge. Plus the wiring requirements, means that I had to cut a large hole in the back of the headlight bucket. Then there is the lens on the EV. Even on low beam, the odd pattern makes it hard to prevent blinding oncoming traffic unless I aim the low beam lower then I would prefer. But it worked out.

Then, after about 18 months, maybe 15000, miles. The EV bulb gave out. DDM tuning only sells the bulbs in pairs. So that wasn't cheap. The electromagnet on the new bulbs is smaller, and I may not have needed as large a hole in the headlight bucket for it. The bad EV HID bulb was blackened inside. Both Stelvio bulbs are fine with no signs of blackening like that.

In the end, with the DDM tuning HID setup, plus cheap LED driving lights, I can't stand the crappy headlights in my cars.

Do it....
 

[leafman60]

I'm running 3 bikes and a SUV with HID conversions right now.  In the past I have done about 5 more on various bikes.

This has been discussed at length in old posts too.  The bottom line is you don't have much to lose by trying it.  HID puts out a LOT of light.

The biggest problem, as previous posters have noted, is that an HID conversion is somewhat of a makeshift affair using a light element with a reflector not specifically designed for it.  The result can be a lot of light that doesn't really do as much as a halogen bulb for which the reflector was designed.

The best application I ever used was putting an HID kit on my '70 Triumph Bonneville. Another benefit of HID is that most of them pull only 35 watts and that was important for my Triumph that had limited power generation.   I already had a halogen beam so I used a H-4 HID.  I lucked out and the reflector was perfect.  The old Bonny, known for poor lighting, threw the best light beam of any modern bike I had.

You have thin ballast with separate igniters and thicker ballasts with internal igniters.  With the H-4 there is an electromagnetic solenoid that actually shifts the bulb element back and forth to effect a high and low beam by varying the angle of light on the reflector.  If you don't have enough room in your bucket for the shuttle solenoid, H-4 HID conversions are available that feature a halogen high beam with the HID low beam and eliminate the solenoid.  I like the 6k kelvin bulbs.  You can see color differences by kelvin scale here:  http://www.delonixradar.com.au/hid-xenon/colour-chart.php

HID bulbs are gas element bulbs that rely on an igniter or starter similar to a fluorescent bulb.  Occasionally, the strike may not ignite the bulb and you have to turn the bulb on and off again to achieve an effective ignition.  Once ignited, the bulbs take a few seconds to reach full intensity.  That's why they're normally not used as high beam bulbs except in the solenoid shuttle arrangements as described earlier that use an already-hot bulb by simply moving it to a high beam location vis-a-vis the reflector. Also, if you have a system voltage drop the HID lamp can go out and require re-starting since the igniters are normally not automatic.

Try it.

[Andrew Thomas Evans]

I was bored at Fleet Farm and saw that they make improved sealed halogen lights, so for $20 I tried one. Brighter than what was in there, throws more light where I want it, and it seemed to plug in and work with the plugin I had.

I think they make a few different versions, I got the middle one, and I'd suggest trying that before spending a bit more money on something new.

[Bisbonian]

I put HIDs in my KTM 640 Adventure for a different reason, I needed some extra watts!

As a byproduct I found that I can also now see at night.

I installed the 35 watt version, previously with the 55 watt bulbs I would find that my voltmeter would read about 12.8 while riding down the street with the headlight on.  With the HID I am up to around 13.5 volts.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I'd recommend carefully checking to make sure you have enough clearance between the fuseblock (if yours is still mounted inside the headlight bucket) and whatever bulb you use - HID or halogen. Many H4 reflector/bulb units are deep enough that the plug for the headlight bulb will hit the fuseblock and knock fuses out of the block when installed.

[leafman60]

Another option that I am currently using is the Silverstar Ultra halogen bulbs.  They do put out more light than a standard halogen and more than a standard Silverstar.

In fact, I tested one against a 100 watt halogen (I do not recommend-too much heat and current draw) and the Silverstar Ultra put out a similar amount of light. The downside to the S-Ultra is expected life is much less than a standard halogen.

I've had one on an old H-D for 2 years now under regular use and it's still working.

[Andrew Thomas Evans]

Another option that I am currently using is the Silverstar Ultra halogen bulbs.  They do put out more light than a standard halogen and more than a standard Silverstar.

 ;-T


I think that's what I found and am using.

[rodekyll]

BTDT with the HID for a few different designs.  I'd agree with all of the comments made, both positive and negative.  I'm working on the scatter problem now from a different point of view:  I'm playing with the placement of the hi/lo HID in the reflector.  I'm thinking that moving it relative to the parabola might help focus it -- like a MAG-LITE focuses a flashlight beam.

Bottom line is that HID is a sketchy-at-best plug-and-play solution to anything.  Adding wiring and fuses/relays/transformers; modifying your headlight bucket/lens/reflector and choosing color temp -- the success of all being highly dependent on the exact bulb you've got in-hand -- is a time consuming process that demands you know a little about keeping the smoke in the wires.  Add to that the unpredictable life of the bulb.  Now decide if the extra lumens is worth it.  In my world it is.

[nikwax]

The kit I'm looking at replaces the sealed beam 6024 bulb with a housing that will accept the H4 bulb in an HID flavor.  Does that sound any better?  Or should I just get a set of Hella driving lights and mount them?

Driving lights are similar in function to high beams, in that they can't be on all the time due to glare. If your situation is that you need more high beam type lighting, then go with driving lights, many of which have a long narrow pattern. Fog lights have a shorter, wide pattern. For deer stalking, I found both to be effective on back roads (wide pattern to get to the sides, long to get the distance), but I had to keep turning the driving lights off for oncoming cars. I got a lot more use out of the fog lights, which I had on 100% of the time on highways and back roads.


That said, for the low cost of the current HID's (I had a set of DDM Tuning bulbs, they're really inexpensive now), it's worth thinking about. Be sure you're comfortable drilling a hole in the headlight's cap, and think about reversing that if you want to go back to conventional (incandescent) lighting.

Do not do not do not install a high wattage conventional light bulb, that can and will melt wiring and plastics.

BTW, the headlights on my Norge, which only use H3 bulbs, are far superior to the 1150GS headlight, even with the HID kit. A well designed reflector and lens beats brute force lumens every time.

[Lannis]

Do it.....

Maybe....

I also work second shift. My commute home every night encounters deer, and drunks. The deer are more predictable.
Also, the plastic Stelvio reflectors were melting. On high beam, the Stelvio burns the high AND low beams. That is just too much heat.
So I installed a DDM tuning H4 Hi/low kit. Another problem with the Stelvio is that there is a huge amount of scattered and wasted light. The HID Hi/low bulb has a large built in shield. That reduced the scattered light and actually reduced the scattered light on low beam, that scattered up into the oncoming traffic. So the DDM tuning Hi/low not only helped me see farther on high beam, it reduced the blinding scatter on low beam. Perfect.


Do it....
 

Did the HID bulb fit into the Stelvio headlight housing and reflector, or did something have to be cut?    I understand that I'll have to find a place for the ballast and relays ....

Lannis

[Wayne Orwig]

Did the HID bulb fit into the Stelvio headlight housing and reflector, or did something have to be cut?    I understand that I'll have to find a place for the ballast and relays ....

Lannis

The HID was sort of a direct fit. If you look at the rubber boot on the back, you see that it can't work correctly. I had to modify the rubber boot a little.

But there is an issue. In the photo, the upper bulb is what DDM used to sell. Note that it has a lot of shielding for when on low. For high beam, the bulb pulls back, changes position, and also uncovers the hole. This worked very well IMHO. The low beam was well shielded, and the high beam provided good light.  The replacement bulb that I just got, is below that. Notice that it has a small shield with no forward shielding. For high beam, the bulb moves UP. Very abnormal for an H4. I may end up moving the new bare bulb into my old housing.

I'll report back in about a week.

[Furbo]

FD,

for an Eldo, I'd look at the following simpler solutions:

1. Get fresh wires and a relay for both the lo & hi beams on your lite

2. Look at a quality lite unit such as a candlepower http://www.jpcycles.com/candlepower/headlights with a quality bulb.

3. Look at some modest driving lites, abain with relays. Think that will do you better than an HID unit. The HD Spots look great on Eldo's, ther's even a bracket to mount them.

[mphcycles]

 Heres the best big picture I have read about the topic. I agree with all his points, as he is correct!
 http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html

[paper]

FD,

for an Eldo, I'd look at the following simpler solutions:

1. Get fresh wires and a relay for both the lo & hi beams on your lite

2. Look at a quality lite unit such as a candlepower http://www.jpcycles.com/candlepower/headlights with a quality bulb.

3. Look at some modest driving lites, abain with relays. Think that will do you better than an HID unit. The HD Spots look great on Eldo's, ther's even a bracket to mount them.

My KLR was terrible, but a relay kit from Easter Beaver http://www.easternbeaver.com/ made a world of difference..
But what really did the trick was LED's from ADVMonster http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hstrial-QualiRegResou/StoreFront.bok

I now have daylight at night.. One spot, one flood, and lots of light!!





Lone SilverStar without LED's on low beam



Everything..



And the KLR doesn't make very much electricity, but handles High Beam and the LED's with ease..

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

2. Look at a quality lite unit such as a candlepower http://www.jpcycles.com/candlepower/headlights with a quality bulb.

As I pointed out earlier, there is precious little room between the headlight plug and the fuseblock even with a 6024 sealed beam unit. If the headlight plug isn't the original, it gets even worse. Most H4 reflectors are just a bit deeper and then the plug can make contact with the fuses, knocking them out. Bosch did make one that provided adequate clearance, but it's long been discontinued as far as I know. It pays to measure how deep you can go and then measure (or ask the seller to measure) the reflector/bulb unit. I bought an Autopal unit off of eBay that cleared with just a mm to spare, others have had it hit though.

This applies to all Loops except the V700 and early Ambos which have a headlight bucket approx. 1" deeper. Of course, if you've moved the fuse block to elsewhere, it doesn't apply either.

 

[bigbikerrick]

I think an HID conversion works much better with a Projector type lens, instead of a reflector type. Has anyone found a projector retrofit kit that we can use on  our bikes? I know HD makes a 7" headlight with projector lens, but its pricey. I dont know how deep the headlight is, and if it would clear the fuse block on the loops....I kinda doubt it,man ,its awfully tight in there! Rick.

[FASTFREDDY]

I like HID's, but when I installed one on my Breva the dash went haywire and wouldn't read like it was supposed to. I took the bulb off and it worked fine. Some kind of electromagnetic interference, maybe?

[rodekyll]

I'd avoid buying from any place that can't give straight answers to HID questions.  A lot of them play dumb or get vague when you try to get technical information.  If they don't know their product enough to give solid pre-sale information, they can't help later.

[Wayne Orwig]

I like HID's, but when I installed one on my Breva the dash went haywire and wouldn't read like it was supposed to. I took the bulb off and it worked fine. Some kind of electromagnetic interference, maybe?

Yes.
On my EV, the high voltage inverter interferes with my cheapo clock/voltmeter that I installed. I had to put a filter on the DC line to the clock AND I had to reroute the wiring away from each other.

[Moto Fugazzi]

I've grown to like my Trucklite LED bulb and my ADVMonster model 44 Aux lights. The Trucklite will draw less power, but the Aux lights will draw more, plus I don't think the LED headlight would look right on your bike. I'd give the HID a try.
Here's my results with the Trucklite LED: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17838&p=192112
Ken

[Furbo]

As I pointed out earlier, there is precious little room between the headlight plug and the fuseblock even with a 6024 sealed beam unit. If the headlight plug isn't the original, it gets even worse. Most H4 reflectors are just a bit deeper and then the plug can make contact with the fuses, knocking them out. Bosch did make one that provided adequate clearance, but it's long been discontinued as far as I know. It pays to measure how deep you can go and then measure (or ask the seller to measure) the reflector/bulb unit. I bought an Autopal unit off of eBay that cleared with just a mm to spare, others have had it hit though.

This applies to all Loops except the V700 and early Ambos which have a headlight bucket approx. 1" deeper. Of course, if you've moved the fuse block to elsewhere, it doesn't apply either.

 

Yep - truth in advertising - my Eldo's fuse box is in one of the tool boxes. I rewired it and there are now 4 fuses instead of.....what....18 or so? ::)

[Moto Fugazzi]

Do it.....

Maybe....

I also work second shift. My commute home every night encounters deer, and drunks. The deer are more predictable.
Also, the plastic Stelvio reflectors were melting. On high beam, the Stelvio burns the high AND low beams. That is just too much heat.
So I installed a DDM tuning H4 Hi/low kit. Another problem with the Stelvio is that there is a huge amount of scattered and wasted light. The HID Hi/low bulb has a large built in shield. That reduced the scattered light and actually reduced the scattered light on low beam, that scattered up into the oncoming traffic. So the DDM tuning Hi/low not only helped me see farther on high beam, it reduced the blinding scatter on low beam. Perfect.
Next up was the EV. The single headlight on the EV actually out performed the Stelvio, because of the Stelvio's crappy reflector! But with the HID setup, the Stelvio was the clear winner. So I got a single Hi/low H4 for the EV. The next issue is that the Hi/low magnet is huge. Plus the wiring requirements, means that I had to cut a large hole in the back of the headlight bucket. Then there is the lens on the EV. Even on low beam, the odd pattern makes it hard to prevent blinding oncoming traffic unless I aim the low beam lower then I would prefer. But it worked out.

Then, after about 18 months, maybe 15000, miles. The EV bulb gave out. DDM tuning only sells the bulbs in pairs. So that wasn't cheap. The electromagnet on the new bulbs is smaller, and I may not have needed as large a hole in the headlight bucket for it. The bad EV HID bulb was blackened inside. Both Stelvio bulbs are fine with no signs of blackening like that.

In the end, with the DDM tuning HID setup, plus cheap LED driving lights, I can't stand the crappy headlights in my cars.

Do it....
 

Wayne,
How have your HID's been holding up over time?
Which DDM kit did you get (35W, 55W and bulb color)? I'd like to give these a try, but don't really know where to start.
Ken

[rodekyll]

I'm not wayne, but I rode to a holiday in in the dark once.   :)

That being said, I can't tell you how his are holding up.  But if you're after goodder light, have the alternator for it, and understand that the kits are not optimized for your headlight reflector and lens, the 55w are the way to go.  Go for the warmest (lowest) temp they've got -- 5000k or 5500k.  It starts out a little blue-ish, but the extra ooompah of the 55w warms it up a little from there.  The 6000k's and higher give a more blue light which makes night driving more of a chore in my opinion.

With DDM the elements are the same for a lot of applications (with base variations).  The ballast is what determines the output.  At least that's true for the stuff I just bought from them.  Also, they put out uniformly in low or high.  If you get a bixenon (or however you spell it -- means hi and lo in the same element) there is a mechanism that shifts the light focus to dip the bulb.  Their phone people have been very good answering general questions.

And an aside -- if you want bestest light instead of just goodder, put your $$ in aux projector lights.  Then you've got 2x 35w or 55w, and it's properly focused light.  I'm going that route with a couple of DDM V3 kits, 55w ballasts and a couple of 4" Arlen Ness-type deep bullet driving light shells.  It will take some mods to the housings, but the projectors are very small and nestle in neatly.  I'm waiting on the shrouds to install them.  I should have the same downrange lighting as a modern audi or infiniti + 35w sloppy HID in the main headlight.

[tobydmv]

HID are old hat and on the way out.  I would look at LED's by CREE.  I used to do a LOT of mountain biking at night and I remember when HID's were the rage.  They died quickly.  If you are a DIY guy i'd look at making your own LED bulb out of a lump of aluminum.  I'd say total cost would be $50.

[Wayne Orwig]

Wayne,
How have your HID's been holding up over time?
Which DDM kit did you get (35W, 55W and bulb color)? I'd like to give these a try, but don't really know where to start.

I am Wayne, but I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night.

 ~;

I still have the two in the Stelvio, and single in the EV. I ride year round to work, so they get used.
I have the 35W hi/Lo H4 units. I did not want to risk irritating people with the 55W units, because of the concern I have with scattered light.
I have the 4000k color temperature ones. (or was it 4200?) That color is almost the same as a bright incandescent. I did NOT want the goofy blue, as I occasionally have to ride home at 1am, in the fog. I wanted a useful warm color for that.
If something fails, I would absolutely do it again. The light is great and the models that I have do NOT scatter light. Sorry to those that think that all aftermarket HID lights scatter light, these don't. BUT if you look above at my post from two years back, you will see that I bought a replacement bulb from DDM, and it was a TOTAL disaster. The bulb was mostly exposed and scattered light everywhere, and the hi/lo solenoid was garbage. I removed the bulb and put into my good style shielded solenoid, and I was working again. I never tried to contact DDM about it, but probably should have.

That being said, absolutely I would/will do it again.
I would stick with close to a 4000k color temperature.
I would make 100% sure that I got the correct mount/shield as I described above.

I have also had a few issues. I had a bulb get where it was hard to 'ignite'. That was the bulb I replaced. And I had a wire come out of a connector because it wasn't seated.

BTW, I have auxiliary LED lighting on all of my bikes also. LED sucks as a main light. White LED lights are made by taking a blue LED, and painting it with white phosphorus (some companies use a UV LED). So you end up with a HUGE amount of blue in the LED. With LED, your mind THINKS it is really bright, because of the reflection and scatter that you see. Fine if reading white letters on road signs is your goal. Sadly, deer and other road critters are not blue or even white, so a warmer color is usually what you are after. And in the fog that blue LED scatter really makes it hard to see.