Dipstick weirdness again

[slowmover]

Changed oil in the 2013 Stone today. Opened front and back plugs and let her drain for hours.Replaced filter and put in 2 liters Eni-Agip and it's one half inch over the top of the checkered area of the stick when just pushed in and not screwed in .Yes the bike is level.

[Kev m]

You changed the oil filter too, yes?

Edit autocorrect is my enema!

[slowmover]

Yes new filter.

[rodekyll]

Did you fill the new filter?

[rtbickel]

Give it a few turns with the starter to prime the filter then check it again.   Is this a V7 or 1100?  If 1100, there is one drain on the back side of the pan and 2 on the trans.  Did you drop the pan to change the filter?.  Not familiar with the underside of a V7 though.

[Kev m]

See edit - autocorrect is my enema! 

Give it a few turns with the starter to prime the filter then check it again.   Is this a V7 or 1100?  If 1100, there is one drain on the back side of the pan and 2 on the trans.  Did you drop the pan to change the filter?.  Not familiar with the underside of a V7 though.

2013 Stone = V7

[slowmover]

How do you fill a canister filter? Never had to do it before. I figure at some point it would become saturated.

[Kev m]

How do you fill a canister filter? Never had to do it before. I figure at some point it would become saturated.

Crank the motor or run it. I assume you did that before checking oil level yes?

[slowmover]

I rode it for 20 minutes before i checked it again. Hey Kev did you change your spark plug caps as per the discussion earlier this week?

[Kev m]

I rode it for 20 minutes before i checked it again. Hey Kev did you change your spark plug caps as per the discussion earlier this week?

Come to think of it, was the stock capacity actually 1.9L?

Honestly, I don't care what the spec says, oil change 101 is that many specs are for a dry motor. Always refill gradually, checking level often, and don't be surprised if you can't put the full spec in. Sure, some motors will take full spec, but others no way.

As for spark plugs caps, nope....I live by the moto that if it "ain't broke" don't fix it.

But I'll be cautious handling them moving forward. Might even pick up spares.

[slowmover]

122.05 cu in(2000 cc) per manual

[Muzz]

.I live by the moto that if it "ain't broke" don't fix it.

Wise words there Kev. :1:

[Kev m]

122.05 cu in(2000 cc) per manual

Then see second comment about specs and dry motors (after rebuild vs oil change).

Unfortunately I can't add to this from experience with the V7 stock capacity since I added a sump spacer right away and that changed capacity. Moreover it added "about" a liter, give or take, and my capacity is now somewhere around 2.75Lish

I know I've always got some fraction of a liter left over, and beer I would have without the spacer too.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sure, some motors will take full spec, but others no way.

<scratching head> They are all built off the same tooling..
Has anyone actually *looked* at how the small block filter works? It fits in a cylindrical cavity. The oil pump picks up oil from the sump and sends it to this cavity. It has to completely fill this cavity before heading on to the bearings, etc. It takes a fair amount of oil to do this. Naturally, if you drain all the oil and empty that cavity by changing the filter, then pour in the correct amount of oil it will read high on the dipstick until the oil pump fills the oil filter cavity. <shrug> It isn't rocket science.
Edit:
Here's a picture of the oil filter cavity.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/aero%20engine/1-016_zps0e8864e9.jpg

[sib]

on my V7II Stone, when I change the oil every 6214 mi (10,000 km), I put in a new filter and 2 1-liter bottles of the proper oil, screw in the filler/dipstick, and don't unscrew it again until the next oil change, when about 2 liters drains out.  There's no significant oil loss between changes, no significant oil accumulation in the air box, and there's never been any symptoms of being overfilled.  I ride more, fret less.

[guzzisteve]

I've been putting in 1 1/2 qt, run bike & top off. Who cares how much! This method has worked flawlessly in BB & SB's since 1976. BB I put in 2 1/2qt.
It's just going to leak or get puked out anyway.

[stevet]

on my V7II Stone, when I change the oil every 6214 mi (10,000 km)...  (chop text)

Holy cow, how many miles have you put on that new model?  Well done!

Steve.

[sib]

Holy cow, how many miles have you put on that new model?  Well done!

Steve.

It's about time for the 20,000 km servicing.  I got the bike in May of last year, it was the first one delivered in RI, as far as I know.  I'm retired, so I can ride every day that the weather cooperates.  I really liked my previous '13 Stone, and I like the '16 Stone even more.

[Kev m]

<scratching head> They are all built off the same tooling..

You misunderstand my quote. I'm saying that industry wide some OEMs publish specs that are for oil change refill, some publish specs that are for a dry motor (rebuild) refill. So you can't always look at a spec and just dump that amount of oil into a motor after a change.

I think some, like some Hondas would publish 3 specs:

Dry motor refill
Oil change W/out filter.
Oil change W/ filter.

So over my career it has always been a case of fill gradually till within about 1 qt of spec, run motor to fill filter/circulate oil, top off via dipstick, and don't worry if it's not quite the same amount as spec.

[old as dirt 2]

I've been putting in 1 1/2 qt, run bike & top off. Who cares how much! This method has worked flawlessly in BB & SB's since 1976. BB I put in 2 1/2qt.
It's just going to leak or get puked out anyway.

I am in the same camp. never had an issue in 40 years of doing it this way. I also don't go quite full, about 90% full.

[stevet]

So, changing the topic just a little bit, can someone give a solid explanation why my V7II (and those before it) needs to have the oil level checked when the engine is hot?  What is happening inside that block when the system is cold and I pull out the dipstick?  What problem or damage is caused with a cold oil level check?

Ain't no fun checking the oil level when everything there, including the dipstick, is just waiting to cook your flesh.  (Yeah, yeah, pull it out with a rag, put on gloves, etc.)

Seems more logical to check the oil level before I start the bike instead of running it for at least 10km (if I recall the manual properly), then checking and finding that I'm dangerously low on oil.  Fortunately, I've not lost a drop.  But there is oil in the air box condom and a film on the bottom of the airbox itself.

Steve.

[keener]

What is the recommended  oil/ filter change intervals on a V7  10,000 km seems a bit high especially on 2 liters of oil ?

[Zinfan]

So, changing the topic just a little bit, can someone give a solid explanation why my V7II (and those before it) needs to have the oil level checked when the engine is hot?  What is happening inside that block when the system is cold and I pull out the dipstick?  What problem or damage is caused with a cold oil level check?

Ain't no fun checking the oil level when everything there, including the dipstick, is just waiting to cook your flesh.  (Yeah, yeah, pull it out with a rag, put on gloves, etc.)

Seems more logical to check the oil level before I start the bike instead of running it for at least 10km (if I recall the manual properly), then checking and finding that I'm dangerously low on oil.  Fortunately, I've not lost a drop.  But there is oil in the air box condom and a film on the bottom of the airbox itself.

Steve.

I imagine the dipstick is marked based on the hot oil.  The answer is to check that the oil level is correct while hot then wait for it to cool down and then check it again and now you know the proper level when cold.

[v65tt]

Sounds about right ... I just marked the dipstick after doing the oil and filter with the bike on the side stand sat on a level part of the drive

Using your own mark on the dipstick when you know you have 2 litres in the sump and its on the side stand makes regular checks so much easier

We put 2l in every v7 and never have problems

[Kev m]

Man and I thought I was retentive ...

The oil change interval is fine, the level changes an RCH from expansion cold-to-hot.


Don't lose sleep over either!

[Cam3512]

I go rogue and check mine after screwing IN the stick.  I'm crazy like that.

[lucian]

 I witnessed one marine mechanic take an involuntary swim when the boat captain asked weather or not he had pre filled the oil filters. I guess " what for" was the wrong answer. The boat had an open transom and off it he went, fortunately it was summer and the guy could swim with boots on.

[bmc5733946]

At one point in time Caterpillar and/or Cummins recommended against filling oil filters before installation because dirt could be introduced to the inside of the filter and therefore directly to the engine oiling system.  Working on heavy equipment I stopped doing it many, many years ago, there is enough oil still on the bearings to lube them while cranking.  According to the engineers who lead our training sessions, the highest load on the bearings is at startup, and no damage would be done if we prevented the engine from starting until the system filled the filters.  On diesels I shut off the fuel, on gas engines I remove spark.  To date I have not lost an engine and remember some filters are mounted upside down, how can you prefill those? Everybody do what pleases themselves and ride far and often!!

Brian

[Chuck in Indiana]

^^^^^ this

[sib]

What is the recommended  oil/ filter change intervals on a V7  10,000 km seems a bit high especially on 2 liters of oil ?

It may seem high to you but that's the recommended interval.  Pre-1TB models had a specified 7500-km change interval.  I'm not sure whether the difference was due to different engine components or different oil ratings.

I once checked the oil level in my '13 V7 both hot and cold, and there was no significant difference in the level on the dipstick.  On the other hand, after sitting over winter (about 3 months), the cold oil level in my '16 V7II was a bit higher than when I had last checked, probably because oil in the filter (and maybe elsewhere in the engine as well) had slowly drained into the crankcase during the extended down time.