What the V9 tells me about Moto Guzzi's future

[oldbike54]

No way are they going to meet euro5 or 6 with an aircooled engine. You are looking at 1000ccm and 40hp at best, do not think that is even realistic.

 Are you an engineer ?

  Dusty

[BRIO]

Whats wrong with water cooling? Guzzi used to have inline threes, Superchargers, desmodronic valves and even a V8. Why should they be confined to an air cooled V2? They could make a longitudinal water cooled V4 street fighter or a big naked displacement V2 torque monster V7-simulacrum. Moto Guzzi's history is about pushing the limit not building a bike for the mature crowd who has settled that 55hp is "all you need". By all means make one or two of those models. But for gods sake give us something that snorts and stalls and tries to take your head off...

PS: if BMW can get 110hp out of an air cooled twin (R9T) so can guzzi...

[slopokes]

no dusty---  but I did stay at a days inn thirty years ago

[Dogwalker]

The 800 in the Scrambler is based on the 796 motor, which was spec'd at 87 PS.   That makes me wonder if the power loss was only due to the desire to retune for better low end torque, or due to tuning changes to meet emissions.

Maybe both. The M696 had something like 8 more PS at the rear wheel than the Scrambler, but had an hole in the torque curve from 4000 to 4800 rpm that the Scrambler hasn't.

[mjptexas]

Whats wrong with water cooling?

 :1:
Look at what both BMW and Triumph have done.  They both essentially retained their heritage with water cooled engines.  Guzzi could do the same.

[oldbike54]

no dusty---  but I did stay at a days inn thirty years ago

 I doubt if our angry Norwegian will get that joke 

  Dusty

[bad Chad]

The 2v 1200 Sport claimed 95hp at the crank, that was Euro 3.

[Guzzistaracing]

I doubt if our angry Norwegian will get that joke 

  Dusty

Døi not get the joke!

[jas67]

Whats wrong with water cooling? Guzzi used to have inline threes, Superchargers, desmodronic valves and even a V8. Why should they be confined to an air cooled V2? They could make a longitudinal water cooled V4 street fighter or a big naked displacement V2 torque monster V7-simulacrum. Moto Guzzi's history is about pushing the limit not building a bike for the mature crowd who has settled that 55hp is "all you need". By all means make one or two of those models. But for gods sake give us something that snorts and stalls and tries to take your head off...

PS: if BMW can get 95hp out of an air cooled twin (R9T) so can guzzi...

Nothing is wrong with water cooling.    But, many on this very forum don't like it.   I prefer air cooling most of the year, but, don't hate water cooling.   I currently have three water cooled bikes, once of which, the F800GT is my preferred cold weather bike, because it is water cooled.  Air cooled motors struggle to get up to proper operating temps in cold weather, where water cooled motors are thermostatically controlled, and get up to temp more quickly and stay there.

They shouldn't necessarily be confined to an air cooled V2, but, that (along with the longitudinal shaft drive layout) is their heritage since the late 60's, which they seem to be following.   It isn't much different than Triumph sticking to the parallel twin for their classics line.   It is their heritage.    Sure, they went to water cooling, and a 270 degree crankshaft, but, it still looks like a Bonneville.  A Guzzi that isn't a longitudinal Vtwin won't look like a Guzzi to most people.

Yes, it would be cool to get some serious performance bikes out of Guzzi, but, they are building what they think will sell and make them successful.  You can't blame them for that.

[oldbike54]

D�i not get the joke!

 A large American motel chain has adds that go something like this . "Are you a doctor ?" "No but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night" 

  Dusty

[Chuck in Indiana]

But for gods sake give us something that snorts and stalls and tries to take your head off...

We're brothers by different mothers.. 

[redrider]

"But for gods sake give us something that snorts and stalls and tries to take your head off"

Can I have an "Amen Brother" on that one?

[canuguzzi]

If the 850 was 75 HP, it would likely be water cooled, because I don' think they can make 75 HP from an air cooled 850 and still meet the ever tightening emissions requirements.

If they did that, then, everyone here would lament that it isn't air cooled.

Can't win.

Only if the made the water cooling look like an add-on. Only the lack of imagination means sticking a pizza box in front of the engine. Some riders don't like fake air cooling fins on water cooled bikes.

So, those 3 people won't buy one.

[rocker59]

...for gods sake give us something that snorts and stalls and tries to take your head off...

Here!  Here!   

There's nothing better than starting my FCR-equipped Sport 1100 on a cool day after it's been sitting for a month, or so.

A few cranks on the throttle.  A few starts and stalls.  It vibrates, won't idle, fires on one cylinder and then the other, and slowly over a minute or two will smooth out and come to life, making glorious music through the full Staintune exhaust.  And I haven't even left the driveway, yet...   



Yeah.  Guzzi is missing this in the lineup.

[oldbike54]

Here!  Here!   

There's nothing better than starting my FCR-equipped Sport 1100 on a cool day after it's been sitting for a month, or so.

A few cranks on the throttle.  A few starts and stalls.  It vibrates, won't idle, fires on one cylinder and then the other, and slowly over a minute or two will smooth out and come to life, making glorious music through the full Staintune exhaust.  And I haven't even left the driveway, yet...   



Yeah.  Guzzi is missing this in the lineup.

 They don't sell statuesque blondes either 

  Dusty

[boatdetective]

I for one will not remain brand loyal simply because of cinder orientation.  I really like my 1200s as an all rounder. However, the DOHCwater cooled 750 in the Shiver is a GREAT engine. Modern is good. I do t plan on ignoring technology in favor of (by now, questionable) style.

[bad Chad]

Evolution is a cool thing.  Modern SB stared as the Breva/Nevada.  In a few short years it has become the v7II, by every objective, and subjective, measure,a better motorcycle.  So much so, that many, have traded/sold their Breva, v7 Classics and such, for the better v7II.

Now the v9 is coming.   It doesn't have big power numbers, same complaint floated when the original Breva/Nevada was introduced, but it was well received, and become much more so when the v7classic came to be.  Guzzi worked on making the power it had, more usable, and fun, and it worked.  The V9 on paper seems like a mild evolution of the v7II, perhaps, but as the next few years go by, it seems to me, each year Guzzi will bring something more to the line.  Naysayers, don't cry in a corner, enjoy the expansion.  You will surely get a sporting, or semi-sporting Guzzi in the next couple years, but mother Piaggio has to go where the money meets the road first.   And, who knows, put your ass on one, and you might find yourself, with a grin only Guzzi can provide.

[DonT]

Why not keep developing the 1200 motor CARC bikes as more high tech (for Guzzi) water cooled (if that's what it takes?)  To lose the Griso for this V9 seems a real set back.  The 10 year old Griso  - even a 2006 2 valve one, is more interesting to me than the V9.  If they have to make them water cooled to meet emissions, so what ?  They should be able to add that to what is currently a strong motor, add some power, lose some weight and have it look and sound fine.  The Griso, Norge, and Stelvio are all fine bikes, and it does not seem to make sense to drop them.  Hopefully, it is just going to take some time re-engineer them so they meet the new emissions.  Then they'll sell like crazy

[oldbike54]

 They aren't dropping the Norge or Stelvio .

  Dusty

[Kev m]

They aren't dropping the Norge or Stelvio .

  Dusty

YET.

But Dog seems to be suggesting that there are no plans to make their motors compliant with 2017 EU standards, which suggests they're going away...

[rboe]

I'll suggest the V9 replaces the V7, the 1400 motor replaces the 1200.

[oldbike54]

I'll suggest the V9 replaces the V7, the 1400 motor replaces the 1200.

 Probably correct .

  Dusty

[leafman60]

If the 850 was 75 HP, it would likely be water cooled, because I don' think they can make 75 HP from an air cooled 850 and still meet the ever tightening emissions requirements.



Can't win.

The 800CC Ducati air-cooled, 400+-pound Scrambler puts out 75 HP.


.

[roadscum]

 So what you are saying is that YOU need a higher HP engine . That is fine , but the choices for fast bikes is vast, and while it would be cool to see MG produce a 100 HP standard , you can't blame them for surveying the market and deciding to build what is selling . HD has a huge market share , of which only an exceedingly small part is the V-Rod .

  Dusty

Have ya noticed H-D is have difficulty meeting there marketing projections?
The market for low, low power bikes is limited, perhaps closed to saturation.

Without expansion of the dealer network the future looks grim for MG...... Just my opinion, yours may differ.

Paul

[oldbike54]

Have ya noticed H-D is have difficulty meeting there marketing projections?
The market for low, low power bikes is limited, perhaps closed to saturation.

Paul

 The market is soft in general . Besides , if HD sells a million bikes one year , the next year the expect to sell a million and a half . The Star Bolt seems to be selling well .

  Dusty

[leafman60]

I think one must be careful comparing anything to H-D. They are in a league of their own that defies comparison, logic or rational judgement. 

I don't think the California 1400 ads that compared the superiority of the Cali to the H-D made much difference to anyone.

[Lcarlson]

<<I'll suggest the V9 replaces the V7, the 1400 motor replaces the 1200.>>

This is actually pretty logical. The V9 doesn't pretend to be a high performance engine, but like the V7, a capable, tractable power plant for a fun and versatile general purpose motorcycle. Let's see what it's really like when it gets here. The 1400, OTOH, is a big step up from the 1200 Griso motor in every way. Right now you can only get it in cruiser flavors, but I expect that will change down the road.

[Vasco DG]

<<I'll suggest the V9 replaces the V7, the 1400 motor replaces the 1200.>>

This is actually pretty logical. The V9 doesn't pretend to be a high performance engine, but like the V7, a capable, tractable power plant for a fun and versatile general purpose motorcycle. Let's see what it's really like when it gets here. The 1400, OTOH, is a big step up from the 1200 Griso motor in every way. Right now you can only get it in cruiser flavors, but I expect that will change down the road.

You jest!

[Lcarlson]

I do not.

[Vasco DG]

You've obviously never ridden a properly set up Griso. The Cali 14 is a fine bike but it's a cruiser with 'Cruiser' type gearing and performance. If that's what you want? Fine! But the Griso is a completely different animal.

Pete