Author Topic: Is this a good project bike ?  (Read 912 times)

Online kballowe

  • - Poser -
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2494
  • Location: Villa Ridge, Missouri
Is this a good project bike ?
« on: November 23, 2022, 04:10:30 PM »
This is a 1962 BMW R60 that I was thinking about buying and doing some amount of restoration.  The current owner bought it in the mid seventies and put just a few hundred miles on it.  It's been sitting for the past 15 years. No knowing all that much about parts availability for these old airheads, I thought that I would ask the question here. 

What do you think ?



2020 Eldorado in red - and friends

Offline Alfetta

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 335
  • Location: Ozarks
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2022, 04:27:04 PM »
EXCELLENT PROJECT BIKE..  but when your done, it won't be very good at motocross !
Nothing much better than a Tannat from the Salta region.

Offline flower_king001

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • Posts: 926
  • Location: South/Middle/TN
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2022, 04:38:49 PM »
Would be a beautiful bike once sorted!

Not sure about parts but Max BMW shows the following:

https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/DiagramsMain.aspx?vid=48037&rnd=09082020

Current Fleet

1971 BMW R90/5
1986 Moto Guzzi Lemans IV 1000
1998 Moto Guzzi 1100 EV
2005 BMW 1200 RT
2007 BMW 1200 GS
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 1100

Offline Tkelly

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • Posts: 748
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2022, 04:41:23 PM »
You will have something nice and valuable bwhen you get it running.I think the bmw market is a lot better than ours for old bikes.We totaled our 73 r75 10 years ago and the insurance paid 3500.

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2022, 04:41:23 PM »

Online kballowe

  • - Poser -
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2494
  • Location: Villa Ridge, Missouri
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2022, 04:43:32 PM »
Well they want $2,000 for this one.  Seems a bit much.
2020 Eldorado in red - and friends

Offline JJ

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19345
  • Life is meant to ENJOY...not "endure."
  • Location: Village of Oak Creek, Arizona
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2022, 04:48:00 PM »
Excellent project bike...and you can still get every nut and bolt and parts from BMW!!   Restored and sorted correctly...they will run like a Swiss watch!! :bow: :thumb: :cool: :boozing: :wink: :smiley:

Here is a beautiful example on BaT right now...



« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 04:50:28 PM by JJ »
Life Member: MGNOC L-772, AMA, HOG
'98 V10 Centauro GT
'14 Victory Vision Tour
Village of Oak Creek, AZ

Online RinkRat II

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2110
  • Lake Powell AZ
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2022, 04:49:44 PM »
 
  Smokin' deal.   Everything you need to know    https://bmwmotorcycletech.info/...http://.

    Paul B :boozing:
A Miller in the hand is worth two in the fridge.

Offline Dave Swanson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3839
  • Northern Illinois USA
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2022, 04:51:33 PM »
2k isn't out of line and appears to be a good candidate for restoration. You can count on it being a money pit to sort properly, but they have a certain panache when brought up to snuff.  Parts availability is good. 

Just running a few numbers through my head I see it easily going upside down with expenditures vs. potential market value, but hey, that's never stopped me before.   :grin:

My 1966 R69S is an original paint survivor. 

« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 04:56:47 PM by Dave Swanson »
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Convert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario
2022 V85TT Guardia d'Onore

MGNOC L-780

Offline flower_king001

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • Posts: 926
  • Location: South/Middle/TN
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2022, 04:54:31 PM »
Well they want $2,000 for this one.  Seems a bit much.

Seem like a very good price IMHO but that all depends on what level you desire to bring the bike back to.

 Also, how passionate are you for this particular model?
Current Fleet

1971 BMW R90/5
1986 Moto Guzzi Lemans IV 1000
1998 Moto Guzzi 1100 EV
2005 BMW 1200 RT
2007 BMW 1200 GS
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 1100

Offline Moparnut72

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1716
  • Location: Quincy California
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2022, 04:59:14 PM »
Good price? Do bears poo in the woods? If I weren't so far away and you didn't want it I would be all over it. I had a 1958 R50. I would love to have another but prices are out of sight. Sedate bikes but fun to ride. Very smooth bikes.
kk
Mopar or Nocar
2022 Triumph Bonneville T120
2019 V7lll Special

Offline guzzisteve

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 10744
  • "Just Ride It"
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2022, 05:18:16 PM »
Well they want $2,000 for this one.  Seems a bit much.
I was thinking $15-2000  and if you spend $10K  It'll be worth $12K, no gain but a nice old slow beemer. SAVE the Dunstalls. That alone tells you it went over 80mph
"Pray through Carlo & your bike shall be healed"
Location: Planet Earth

Offline cliffrod

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1894
  • AC Button II
    • Carolina Sculpture Studio
  • Location: Spartanburg, SC USA
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2022, 05:53:35 PM »
$2k is pretty reasonable, especially for a bike that isn’t a crunchy incomplete mess.  You’ll probably look for a long time to find the same deal again, especially if that one is close to you.  Prices keep going up and I doubt they’re going to stop.

When I got mine, a friend with several told me “a /2 is a different state of mind.  It’s not like a Ducati or a Guzzi.”  He was right.  In the right circumstances, they’re really something.  So sedate and smooth they’re almost boring, but they’re not.  Hard to explain but once you ride one, you’ll understand.   Don’t plan on being happy in hectic modern traffic.  Other than that, they’re about as rock solid last forever as a bike can be.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Offline n3303j

  • Ron Cichowski
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1293
  • Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2022, 09:44:24 PM »
Between Craig Viechorik at Bench Mark Works in the USA and Mark Huggett BMW Classic in Switzerland you can get every part you need for that bike.




This was mine when done. Rode it 50,000 miles. Then saw a Moto Guzzi 850 T3 and fell in love. My non-matching numbers BMW R60/2 with 100,000+ miles on the clock sold for an easy $8,000.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 09:45:03 PM by n3303j »
'98 MG V11 EV
'96 URAL SPORTSMAN
'77 MG 850T3 FB

Offline s1120

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1960
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2022, 06:16:38 AM »
I don't know a lot about the old BMW's, but all I know is every one of the older bikes with the Earles fork that I have seen have been priced way out of my budget. Seems like a fair price for a project that's solid, and not filling milk crates in a barn somewhere.
Paul B

Online chuck peterson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 4902
  • Location: New Haven CT
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2022, 07:04:45 AM »
Hmmmmmmmmmm i have questions…

Not a beemer speedo. Which makes me wonder how many miles before it was replaced

Current owner bought it with this speedo? So really an unknown mileage…that could be the difference between a motor rebuild or just fresh rings, etc.

it’s a unknown box that could go down a very expensive rathole if you like that sort of thing.

Starts, runs, idles, compression could say a lot. Non running? A perhaps Bring More Wallet BMW?

Max BMW here in the northeast did a great video where Phil Cheney and others built an R60/2 w Earles fork from all brand new parts from the corporate warehouses. Yup, parts are available

Good luck!

"I'd like to thank all my friends who have kept my Guzzi's going, but mostly...TOMB."
150k on Verts
750 Nevada
400f
R5 Yammie
BV250
4x 1976 Moto Demm Smily,, now 5, oops now 6, oops now 7
1980 SP1000 in little bits and pieces

Offline Stretch

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 376
  • Location: Maine
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2022, 07:24:54 AM »
Buy it.   :thumb: :thumb:

All parts are still available, and if the factory originals aren't there are good
aftermarket substitutes.

Lots of knowledge out there for these bikes, too.

It'll cost you a few bucks to get it done, but I think it would be worth it.
 
                                                        -Stretch


Offline n3303j

  • Ron Cichowski
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1293
  • Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2022, 07:45:41 AM »



A good deal, but the speedometer is not the original so the indicated mileage is probably not the true mileage.

About $300 worth of tools from Cycleworks will be sufficient for a complete engine tear down to clean and inspect the oil slingers.
I've seen a fair number of these that have the main bearings loose on the crankshaft. The standard fix is build the journals up with chrome and regrind to a proper pressure fit. This was about  a $500 job assuming the roller bearings at the big end of the connecting rods are okay. If not then the crank must be disassembled, journals replaced and new roller bearings fitted.

These are the "butterhead years". The alloy used to cast the heads deformed under heat and pressure. The rocker towers would sink into the head and change clearance and valve alignment. Valve seats would occasionally fall out and make a mess. Spark plug steel inserts would come loose often firing the plug into space on an ignition cycle. The heads  often developed a crack at the plug hole. Alternate alloy heads are about, but scarce and pricey. That being said; With a competent rebuild (Memphis Motor Works or Randy Long) the head (with shims under the rocker pin towers) will carry you reliably for many miles.

Unless the rest of the bike spent a time under water or was run without oil it is kind of bullet proof. Replace all the rubber parts and seals. Replace any bearing that appears worn. The wheel bearings are taper roller. Outer races clamped in the hub against a spacer. Inner races are clamped against a spacer on the axle. The relationship between the spacers is critical to establish proper bearing clearances. Done correctly, the bearings will outlast the owner. Steering head uses loose balls but a proper taper substitute is readily available.

The magneto and points last forever. The original coil usually fails when hot. Vech has an Emerald Island substitute that is durable and excellent. The battery/generator have nothing to do with spark ignition. The ignition switch just grounds the points. Bike starts and runs fine without a battery. Properly tuned, the bike is a "one kick" runner summer and winter. No brake light switch on the front lever. Get used to tapping the rear to let those following you plan to slow or stop.

Carbs cast out of the same stuff as the heads. If the PO kept tightening them to seal them the mounting ears will bend. This is a matter of lapping the face flat. Then installing new gaskets and mounting them with appropriate torque only.

Care removing headers so you don't tear the threads off the spigot as they are as soft as the rest of the head. If in doubt cut the clamp ring with a Dremel to save the threads. Otherwise there are people who build up the spigots with weld and re-thread them ($$$). Cheaper to cut the ring.

That all being said it was a fun and nimble bike for my 50,000 miles. It was the original "Antilock" brake bike to the point of being sometimes scary. And that's with the improved AF232 brake shoe compound installed. Also I found it a wee bit small. Not terribly, but a bit like the bear on a bicycle small (I'm only 5: 8"). Next generation BMW was too tall. But the Moto Guzzi T3 was just a perfect fit in every way.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 07:51:01 AM by n3303j »
'98 MG V11 EV
'96 URAL SPORTSMAN
'77 MG 850T3 FB

Offline TDF

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 323
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2022, 07:56:07 AM »
Smokin' price for that bike today.  If you dont buy it at that price, please let me know the owners contact info.  It will have a good home here. 

TDF
2000 V11 Sport
2002 MV Agusta F4 750
2000 KTM 640 Duke II
1966 Ducati Sebring 350
1965 Ducati Bronco 125
1958 MDS Super Dart 70
1966 Honda CL77
1949 Ariel VB 600
1983 Husqvarna WR430
1968 BSA 441 Shooting Star
1973 Suzuki TS125
68 & 73 CT90's
Plus a whole herd of parts bikes
Emerald NE

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 13480
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2022, 08:12:14 AM »
Between Craig Viechorik at Bench Mark Works in the USA and Mark Huggett BMW Classic in Switzerland you can get every part you need for that bike.




This was mine when done. Rode it 50,000 miles. Then saw a Moto Guzzi 850 T3 and fell in love. My non-matching numbers BMW R60/2 with 100,000+ miles on the clock sold for an easy $8,000.

Vech retired and sold out to Max BMW about a year ago.
https://www.maxbmw.com/press-releases/max-bmw-purchases-bench-mark-works
Charlie

Offline Moparnut72

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1716
  • Location: Quincy California
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2022, 08:20:42 AM »
Great summary 3303. I thought I had a pretty good knowledge of these but compared to you not so much. The odometer on mine broke, the wheels became loose but the speedo still worked. I had the hot coil problem but it still ran well enough to get me home. The regulator quit on a trip but the magneto also got me home. I moved from New England to Colo due to the generosity of the Uncle Sam. It was grossly under powered for the altitude and the high passes. I replaced it with an R75/5, the very first one in Denver. It w better but bit over geared.
kk
Mopar or Nocar
2022 Triumph Bonneville T120
2019 V7lll Special

Online kballowe

  • - Poser -
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2494
  • Location: Villa Ridge, Missouri
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2022, 08:38:45 AM »
Lots of information !

I am going to pass. 

Posting migrating to the "Swap Meet" section in 3....2....1....

(the owner is a acquaintance of mine)
2020 Eldorado in red - and friends

Online Chuck in Indiana

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 29155
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2022, 08:54:09 AM »
Quote
You can count on it being a money pit to sort properly,
Truer words were never spoken. When it comes to a "restoration.." don't plan on making any money on it. If you *really* love the bike and would like to have it.. that's different.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Vagrant

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1846
  • Location: Gainesville, Ga or Green Valley Az.
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2022, 09:06:46 AM »
If you really need a project just go dust your current collection. You should be done by April.
Or do like I do. Drive as far south as you can and still be in the US and enjoy the winter ridding everyday.
HE IS FREE WHO LIVES AS HE CHOOSES
2001 EV, 2017 V7-III Blue special, 2022 V85 the fast red one! 2016 650 Versys
L-196, L-197

Offline LowRyter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 16339
  • Location: Edmond OK
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2022, 09:36:28 AM »
Excellent project bike...and you can still get every nut and bolt and parts from BMW!!   Restored and sorted correctly...they will run like a Swiss watch!! :bow: :thumb: :cool: :boozing: :wink: :smiley:

Here is a beautiful example on BaT right now...





sold for $15.5k
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline Vagrant

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1846
  • Location: Gainesville, Ga or Green Valley Az.
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2022, 09:38:06 AM »
"A fool and his money are soon parted!"
HE IS FREE WHO LIVES AS HE CHOOSES
2001 EV, 2017 V7-III Blue special, 2022 V85 the fast red one! 2016 650 Versys
L-196, L-197

Online Canuck750

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1865
  • Location: Edmonton, Canada
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2022, 10:39:50 AM »
Truer words were never spoken. When it comes to a "restoration.." don't plan on making any money on it. If you *really* love the bike and would like to have it.. that's different.

All of the old bikes I have owned and restored could be described as money pits by most folks but if someone treats taking on resurrecting vintage machines as a hobby / learning opportunity then the ‘cost’ is secondary so long as one accepts that at the end of the day you will be underwater money wise. My response to those who question spending money on an old bike is ‘how much did you get paid for golfing (insert activity: fishing…) last year?
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline cliffrod

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1894
  • AC Button II
    • Carolina Sculpture Studio
  • Location: Spartanburg, SC USA
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2022, 12:12:20 PM »
All of the old bikes I have owned and restored could be described as money pits by most folks but if someone treats taking on resurrecting vintage machines as a hobby / learning opportunity then the ‘cost’ is secondary so long as one accepts that at the end of the day you will be underwater money wise. My response to those who question spending money on an old bike is ‘how much did you get paid for golfing (insert activity: fishing…) last year?

Exactly^^^ 

Besides things they do as a pastime that produce no monetary benefit, so many people have “standards” that are only met by $$$ premium items like spiffy coffee, liquor, cigars, clothing & shoes, etc.  that stuff isn’t cheap or free.

If the only priority in one’s life is money and profit, that’s fine. Not all of us see things that way.   

Back to the subject at hand.  These old project bikes are not getting more plentiful.  It’s hard to see bikes that used to be overpriced at $100-$200 now be considered to be affordable if not a bargain at $1k-$2k.  Time moves on.  Deals still pop up, but most aren’t going to be on the road for cheap money like the old days.  And even more importantly, many older folks who partake are no longer willing to ride a bike that looks like crap and only runs ok like they did when they were younger & the important thing was riding vs being seen riding.   These old machines have become status symbols, so have to be $$$$ to warrant the status responses.

Then again, some of us don’t see things that way.  So we hear an endless symphony of “that would be a nice bike if you….” advice.  These old bikes are still fun, even when they aren’t perfect.

1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Offline Kiwi_Roy

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 9766
  • Location: New Westminster BC
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2022, 12:19:16 PM »
a sweet old bike for sure, fix it up and you will have a bike you can ride for the rest of your days
kind of like an old loop.

Question, is someone fixing up these old Beamers using non OEM parts to save money then flipping them as all OEM?.
I have a suspicious mind
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 09:51:07 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Online Tom

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28306
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2022, 12:27:56 PM »
Buy it! 
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

Online Scout63

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2278
  • Location: Orleans, MA USA
Re: Is this a good project bike ?
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2022, 09:53:18 PM »
Either you are a /2 person or you are not.  If so, then I think that is a great project bike for the price.  If not, then spend the time and money on a bike that really tickles your fancy. Although the /2 is a great looking and sweet running classic, I never could warm up to mine as long as there was a Norton or Guzzi in the garage, so it went on the block.

As for spending money on restorations, the work is what keeps me sane.  It like spending money on any hobby, with the benefit of something beautiful to show for the work. If a bike sells for more than the out of pockets, that’s just a bonus.
Ben Zehnder - Orleans, MA USA
‘46 Rapide
3 Bevel Ducs
‘71 R75/5
‘72 Combat Commando
‘73 v7 Sport
‘78 SR500
‘79 G5-T3 mashup
‘19 Husky Vitpilen

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here
 

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here