Wildguzzi.com
General Category => Bike Builds, Rebuilds And Restorations Only => Topic started by: siabeid on December 26, 2016, 01:56:52 PM
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I started taking the Idaho fence post v7 sport apart to rebuild it a few weeks ago, but haven't been able to do much in the lead up to Christmas. All in all, it is coming apart pretty well. There are insect nests and/or sand packed into almost any place where there is a space - like between the tail light assembly and the rear fender for example. It is pretty interesting to see how that stuff can get packed in there.
I have a little time to work on it this week and am trying to pull the exhaust and top end off the engine. The left exhaust header nut WILL NOT come loose. The flange that the wrench hooks onto is even starting to break apart, but the threads will not budge in the head. The old farm equipment mechanic in me wants to heat up the head in the threaded area with a torch to try to unscrew it, but it makes me a little nervous doing that to the alloy head. An Italian motorcycle engine seems a little more delicate than a rusted up hay baler!
Any other suggestions for loosening that nut? Does the torch idea seem like it wouldn't be too brutal? It has been soaking in Moov-it for almost a month now, but still no movement.
Thanks,
Si Abeid
Kettle Falls, WA
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I'd heat it up.
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I believe it has the large nut that goes around the header and has slots for a hook style spanner.
Heat it and tap it with a hammer inward towards the head. Might also try tightening it, sometimes that will "start" to break it loose.
If all fails, a large pipe wrench should do it, but then you would probably need a new nut. They are available as well as the head can be re-threaded.
Tom
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Often a few whacks with a hammer can help shock loose corrosion. I wouldn't heat the aluminum part you're trying to turn, since that will make it bigger. That is if it's a male threaded thing that screws into a female threaded part of the head, which I think it is.
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Do you need new cylinders? If yes, then why bother?
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50/50 mix of atf and acetone.
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Yes, try heating the head. The heads are aluminum, and the nuts are steel. Different rates of expansion.
Still have to get the headers off the heads, then remove the heads to ultimately remove the cylinders.
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This was the one rescued in a recent thread right? I do hope this is the start of a project-long thread, and that you will write about your experiences (and post pics) as you go.
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Heat the head if you can, but this usually isn't very effective while it's still attached to the bike, since you'll be heating the cylinder and more besides. Takes quite a large heat source to warm it enough to be effective.
The only thing that has worked for me (and only 20% of the time) in this situation is to "throw everything at it": all at the same time, heat it, drown it in penetrant and use an air hammer with a chisel ground blunt to try to move it.
All of that failed on my latest project, so I cut the header pipe off, removed the head and took it to my local machine shop. They very careful mill through the pipe and the nut in two places opposite each other and then the remnants are fairly easily removed.
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This thread is worthless without pitchers.. :smiley:
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Have never seen anything that liquid wrench and a few day won't loosen up. Soak it several times.
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Have never seen anything that liquid wrench and a few day won't loosen up. Soak it several times.
I have great luck with heat and PB Blaster or even WD40 heat it spray let soak. repeat
some times a nice whack can shock it
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Yes, try heating the head. The heads are aluminum, and the nuts are steel. Different rates of expansion.
there are no nuts . correction I see they are called ring nuts..
(http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx23/99Bassa/IMG_20161021_1525408_rewind%20Medium_zpsilhkwsdz.jpg)
Do you need new cylinders? If yes, then why bother?
what he said..
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there are no nuts . correction I see they are called ring nuts..
(http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx23/99Bassa/IMG_20161021_1525408_rewind%20Medium_zpsilhkwsdz.jpg)
what he said..
Whaddya mean "no nuts"? I'm looking right at one in the photo. They screw into the head like a loopframe.
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Whaddya mean "no nuts"? I'm looking right at one in the photo. They screw into the head like a loopframe.
correction I see they are called ring nuts..
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Do you need new cylinders? If yes, then why bother?
what he said..
Umm, because the header nuts thread into the heads not the cylinders? New cylinders won't magically make the stuck header nuts come loose. :grin: :wink:
In my experience, 80% of the time in this situation, PB Blaster, WD-40 and Liquid Wrench aren't going to do a darn thing except make a mess and smell up the place. Nor will Freeze Off, Kroil, ATF/acetone or whatever other weird concoction you care to name. Believe me, I've tried them all at one time or another and even with heat, they have little effect. Sometimes stuck is stuck.
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15078685_1025764810878983_1529458264205597062_n.jpg?oh=d38a865b9703cef76aae4040051eec1c&oe=592395C5)
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Umm, because the header nuts thread into the heads not the cylinders? New cylinders won't magically make the stuck header nuts come loose. :grin: :wink:
What HE said. Drop microphone.
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What HE said. Drop microphone.
Oh yeah DUH, your right! I'm a dummy..
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-fZK7n2C/0/L/IMAG0683-L.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-fZK7n2C/A)
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If the headers are salvageable, I'd go to heroic lengths to save them because I'm.. uh.. cheap. If they're not, saw those suckers off and let's get with the program. Pictures or it didn't happen. <shrug> We need an epic build thread to make it through the winter. :smiley:
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We need an epic build thread to make it through the winter. :smiley:
I'm working on that.. an 850T conversion to a V7Sport.. My buddy Bones has taken on the build and I'll be the fotog.. should be delivered in boxes next week..
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If the headers are salvageable, I'd go to heroic lengths to save them because I'm.. uh.. cheap. If they're not, saw those suckers off and let's get with the program. Pictures or it didn't happen. <shrug> We need an epic build thread to make it through the winter. :smiley:
The reproductions MG Cycle sells are very good quality and cheaper than having the originals rechromed.
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The original nuts are fairly soft. If you try using any amount of force on them they just start breaking apart. I have had to cut a couple pipes off to get the nut out. A dremel tool, chisel, hammer, and a bit of time will eventually get them out.
Cut the pipe off with hacksaw, angle grinder, or your tool of choice. Small cutoff wheel on a dremel to cut around the remains of the pipe from the inside to remove most of it. Dremel tool to score the inside of the nut but not far enough that you get into the threads. Hammer and chisel to fold the nut in on itself.
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Wonder if the nut is seized to the pipe as much as the head?
Not sure if it's possible, but how about removing the head with the pipe and putting both in an oven at about 300*F. Give it an hour to heat up. Anchor the head then pull on the pipe to loosen the nut. With two people, one could pull on the pipe and the other use a wrench or impact hammer on the nut.
You'd have to figure out a way to anchor the head without damaging it (between two 4x4s cut to fit?) and probably have to cut the pipe to get in in the oven but if it were left long it would give lots of leverage.
You do have an oven in the shop?! :thewife:
Hahnda's way may be less likely to damage the threads in the head.
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Looking forward to the build
luckily my loop had the headers off when the PO parked it in a wet garage for 20 years.
If you find the front engine bolt seized in place cut right through the alloy spacers and bolt with a hacksaw, its an easy task to make new spacers.
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Looking forward to the build
luckily my loop had the headers off when the PO parked it in a wet garage for 20 years.
If you find the front engine bolt seized in place cut right through the alloy spacers and bolt with a hacksaw, its an easy task to make new spacers.
There are no spacers on the front engine bolt of Tonti-frame Guzzis - the frame lugs are right up against the timing cover. The bolt is exposed to the elements as well, making it more likely to seize.
Wonder if the nut is seized to the pipe as much as the head?
The pipe isn't usually seized at all - you can rotate it all you want, even to the point that the copper sealing ring is nearly destroyed and the pipe is loose. But, the header nut will still be stuck.
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Could try heating it up and then melt some wax into the threads.
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This thread is worthless without pitchers.. :smiley:
Preferably pitchers of Whiskey. That always helps.
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Remove the head and soak it in white vinegar for a day or two.
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I haven't had good luck with aluminum and vinegar. The aluminum tends to get eaten away.
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I posted this awhile ago on another thread:
https://youtu.be/KFdFsfSAuyc
"A stick candle and a lighter"
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(http://[img]<br />[url=http://ibb.co/ds4jLa][img]http://thumb.ibb.co/ds4jLa/KIMG0165.jpg)[/url]
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bLEUmF/Copy_2_of_v7sport_chrome_cylinder.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bLEUmF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cVSRYv/KIMG0172.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cVSRYv)
[/img][/img] Thanks for all the suggestions. I ended up using Charlie's "all of the above" method, and it did come loose. I gave it more Moov-it and heated up the cylinder very carefully with my cutting torch, gave it a couple hard smacks inward and used a big hammer and a dull chisel and it finally started to unscrew. Also a big pipe wrench. It destroyed the nut, but the head didn't seem to get damaged. I then took the exhaust system apart with the torch. I ran a big nylon tie through the cross over tubes and pushed out a whole handful of bug nests. The exhaust also had about a pound of rust flakes in it. I pulled the heads, and they actually looked pretty good. The left cylinder pulled off easily enough, but I had to jack the right cylinder off the piston by turning the flywheel and jamming blocks of wood between the cylinder and casing. The chrome on the cylinders was definitely coming off. I pulled the sump after draining the oil and it was the weirdest looking stuff I have ever seen in an engine. The bottom of the sump is covered with a layer of very shiny black goo about 3/16" thick. It is so viscous that it won't even flow. The picture of the sump is taken with the sump vertical. That is how thick it is. I can't wait to see the sludge trap.
These pictures are of the chrome bore of the cylinder. the cylinder removal. a head. Also the sump standing vertically. You have to be patient with me sending the pics, as I am just figuring out how to do it.
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I have many years of experience getting "frozen" threads to give up their grip. By far, the most effective penetrating oil is called Knock Er Loose by CRC. After a liberal application of Knock Er Loose lightly tap the nut with hammer and punch all around to vibrate the oil into the threads. This may take up to 100 taps. That should loosen it. If not, apply heat.
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You have to be patient with me sending the pics, as I am just figuring out how to do it.
You're doing great! Take a ton of pictures and even if you don't post them all here find a photo hosting site and post them there too.
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(http://[img]<br />[url=http://ibb.co/ds4jLa][img]http://thumb.ibb.co/ds4jLa/KIMG0165.jpg)[/url]
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bLEUmF/Copy_2_of_v7sport_chrome_cylinder.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bLEUmF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cVSRYv/KIMG0172.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cVSRYv)
[/img][/img] Thanks for all the suggestions. I ended up using Charlie's "all of the above" method, and it did come loose. I gave it more Moov-it and heated up the cylinder very carefully with my cutting torch, gave it a couple hard smacks inward and used a big hammer and a dull chisel and it finally started to unscrew. Also a big pipe wrench. It destroyed the nut, but the head didn't seem to get damaged. I then took the exhaust system apart with the torch. I ran a big nylon tie through the cross over tubes and pushed out a whole handful of bug nests. The exhaust also had about a pound of rust flakes in it. I pulled the heads, and they actually looked pretty good. The left cylinder pulled off easily enough, but I had to jack the right cylinder off the piston by turning the flywheel and jamming blocks of wood between the cylinder and casing. The chrome on the cylinders was definitely coming off. I pulled the sump after draining the oil and it was the weirdest looking stuff I have ever seen in an engine. The bottom of the sump is covered with a layer of very shiny black goo about 3/16" thick. It is so viscous that it won't even flow. The picture of the sump is taken with the sump vertical. That is how thick it is. I can't wait to see the sludge trap.
These pictures are of the chrome bore of the cylinder. the cylinder removal. a head. Also the sump standing vertically. You have to be patient with me sending the pics, as I am just figuring out how to do it.
Glad to hear that you didn't have to go "medieval" on it! :thumb: Aren't you glad that didn't try to start it?
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Yes, indeed. Do you suppose that gooey stuff is dirt that separated out of the oil after sitting for so long? The oil I drained out of it just looked like ordinary dirty oil. It will be interesting to see the crank.
Glad to hear that you didn't have to go "medieval" on it! :thumb: Aren't you glad that didn't try to start it?
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Yes, indeed. Do you suppose that gooey stuff is dirt that separated out of the oil after sitting for so long? The oil I drained out of it just looked like ordinary dirty oil. It will be interesting to see the crank.
Build up of sludge? I've seen oil separate in the bottle if left on the shelf too long, possibly that?
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:popcorn:
I still wanna see you remove the EXHAUST HEAD pipe from the cylinder...come on, please? I know you can do it...
:popcorn:
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:popcorn:
I still wanna see you remove the EXHAUST HEAD pipe from the cylinder...come on, please? I know you can do it...
:popcorn:
Since the head pipe doesn't attach to the cylinder, I think you'll have a very long wait...
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The "Monte Carlo" Eldo I picked up several years ago oil pan looked about the same. I had to drill out the sludge trap.. :shocked:
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I finally had a chance to work on the old Sport, and got it completely torn down into components. The tranny and rear end oil was old and thick, but no pieces of metal came out. I cleaned up the mess in the sump and there were no pieces there either. I am thinking that goo might have been dirty oil that separated after sitting for so long. I really think that this is a pretty low mileage bike. The clutch hub and transmission input gear, the flywheel ring gear, the carb slides, the cylinder bores, the u joint and driveshaft splines show hardly any wear at all. It definitely went down on it's right side, as the valve cover is scratched and the right handlebar is bent a little. The right side of the tank is dented, too. It must not have been very hard, though as the fins on the head are fine. That is probably why the instrument panel and headlight were replaced with incorrect parts.
I think I will tear the rest of the engine down next. I am curious to see what the bearings and crank look like. Does any one know if the frames on these were glossy or satin black? It kind of looks like satin, but is too faded to really tell. I know my LM3 is satin black.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/b2AVBF/KIMG0195.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b2AVBF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cMtiWF/KIMG0191.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cMtiWF)
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That's a great milestone. Now you can start restoring whichever sub-assemblies you want. If you get stuck on one thing, you can move on to a different bit while you wait for parts or advice.
:popcorn:
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I started pulling the engine apart. The timing chain tensioner was almost disintegrated. I was reading in Guzziology that that was a weak point of that era. The rubber bits from that must have gotten ground up and travelled through the engine and perhaps were some of the weird stuff in the bottom of the sump. The oil pressure switch was not there and there was a screw in cap with a gasket instead. The rod bearings were definitely loose and with deep scoring. The babbit was worn through in some areas. It must have had quite a knock. Wrist pin bushings seemed fine as do the rocker arm shafts. The crank rod journals look and feel fine but I have not measured them yet. I had to stop and order a special socket to get the crank nut off. I don't think this was ever disassembled before. The fasteners are all like new except for the surface corrosion on the heads. The alternator was funny. It was completely packed with bug nests. I'm anxious to see the mains and the sludge trap. Hopefully I can continue next weekend.
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Sounds like a mechanical labor of love is going on!
Thanks for the update, and it'll be a good experience (and a motivating one) for the rest of us as you continue to document this rescue ... !
Lannis
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Thank you for the update!!! Keep 'em coming!!
Tom
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Keep up the good work!
Looking forward to the rebuild.
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:1: :thumb:
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How about some pix?
I love reading these barnfind/teardown rebuild threads Makes me wish I was handier than I am.
G
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Nice pics and write up so far Si
how are the temps up there? Been around 2 -7 deg. here.
So i know its at least that cold up where you are at.
So the Norge just sits and waits
man this winter sucks.
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Your rebuild looks good so far. How's the snow???
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About 18 inches or so on the ground now. (Tuesday 6AM). It hasn't been above 20 for a month or so, and down around zero quite a bit. The freezing rain is coming though. It is probably going to get kind of wild for a couple days. When that rain hits the really cold ground and trees, it is going to get interesting.
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About 18 inches or so on the ground now. (Tuesday 6AM). It hasn't been above 20 for a month or so, and down around zero quite a bit. The freezing rain is coming though. It is probably going to get kind of wild for a couple days. When that rain hits the really cold ground and trees, it is going to get interesting.
How in the world do you heat your workshop in that kind of weather?
I've got a 7500 watt electric heater in a well-insulated garage, but it would be running all the time in zero - to - 20 degree weather to keep the shop at 60 or so ...
Lannis
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Way up here in west central mn we often have temps sub zero, we just went through a spell of -8-20 below for about a week, that doesn't count the wind chill which put it well below zero. My shop / garage stays 40 easy for around $20.00 a month, natural gas, my heater is a Hamilton similar to a Modine it think is a 50,000 BTU .it can take it to 60-65 in minutes . the garage is super insulated and has an up stairs which is also very well insulated.
When you live here you prepare for it.
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Curious and trying to learn - with that exhaust header nut -
would Electrolosis have been an option? I've seen Ytubes of
a rusted and locked up car door latch and it even cleaned the
inside of the latch and it worked again.
Would Electrolosis penetrate the threads and free them up?
Would Electrolosis even work on Alloy or a Steel / Alloy mix?
Maurie.
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Often a few whacks with a hammer can help shock loose corrosion. I wouldn't heat the aluminum part you're trying to turn, since that will make it bigger. That is if it's a male threaded thing that screws into a female threaded part of the head, which I think it is.
For that very reason I would heat the head.
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I finally had a chance to finish the engine tear down and clean and measure the components. The sludge trap had about a tablespoon of rubbery, metallic paste jammed in it. I had to dig at it and pull it out with a hook. It was magnetic. The crank and cam journals actually looked pretty good. They both measured within spec. These engines really are robust. The oil pump looks good, but I am going to measure it out tomorrow. The main bearings aren't real pretty, but seem to be within spec. The rod bearings are really worn badly. There is a little grooving on the inside of the crank case where the chain rubbed against it. It must have really made a terrible racket the last time it ran. The end thrust on both the crank and cam was about .035". That seems very excessive. Does any one know what that spec should be? I was confused by the shop manual and am not sure what the spec for that is.
The weather has been in the mid 30s during the day. Got it up to 60 degrees in the shop today. Very pleasant!
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I have been making some progress on a few fronts. I ordered about $3000 of parts from Moto International and MG Cycle, including a new tank and seat. The wrist pins were pretty sloppy, so I sent the rods to Seattle along with the heads to get the valves done and the wrist pins and bushings fitted. I am anxiously awaiting them , as well as the new Gilardoni sets to come back from MI so I can finish the engine. I got the lower end put back together about as far as I want to go without con rods. Yesterday I rebuilt the forks with new dampers, Wirth springs, seals and fork tubes. The old tubes were not only horribly rusted, but the right one was also bent. There was no oil in the forks, but plenty of water. Naturally the steel components inside were totally rusted up. I had to pull one side's inside parts out with a slide hammer they were so seized in there. It all cleaned up nicely, though and is looking good. I spent part of today cleaning up and repainting the triple trees and a bunch of smaller parts. I think I will start in on the frame next. Hopefully the rest of my engine parts will be in this week.
This project has been really fun, so far. It is really cool to take a total piece of junk and give it a new lease on life, though it is a long process when you only have 2 or 3 days per month to work on it. I am getting anxious for riding season to return. We still have a whole bunch of snow. I always try to go for a ride on my birthday, March 3, but this year I won't even be able to get out the driveway to the county road. I guess that will give me more time to work on the Sport next weekend.
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:thumb:
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Thanks for keeping us in the loop! Er, maybe that should be the Tonti...
Cheers,
Shaun
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It's interesting to read the updates, thanks.
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Happy Birthday,
My daughter was born on 3/3/99.
Off to university this summer. Other wise I could afford a project like yours.
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Happy Birthday Si!
Thanks for the reports. Would love to see all those new parts!
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Yesterday I rebuilt the forks with new dampers, Wirth springs, seals and fork tubes. The old tubes were not only horribly rusted, but the right one was also bent.
I assume you got the fork tubes from MGC or MI? When I put new tubes on my Guzzi, I went to my old standby "Forking by Frank", but afterward found they were actually cheaper from MGC! I hadn't even thought to ask, since I was "sure" they weren't available. These days I used Forking by Frank for unobtanium on the old bikes since the real thing are still available ....
Lannis
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I got the front end parts and seat from MG Cycle and every thing else from MI. I try to use MI as much as possible as they are my "local" dealer (about 400 miles) and they are really good guys and a pleasure to deal with, and Dave R really knows his stuff. MG cycle sure has a great website and are fast and efficient. I feel we are really blessed to get parts so easily for old Guzzis. They generally aren't hard to find at all. I used to get parts from Joe Eish, too. He was totally old school. He would send the parts with a bill, and I would send him a check. Plus a discount if you belonged to the MGNOC. Being a farmer, he would always ask how the haying season was going, the price of cattle, how the weather was,etc. etc. Having grown up in Akron, Ohio, I always enjoyed hearing how things were going back in "the old country", too. Another really cool, knowledgeable and helpful old guy is Herm, the Del Orto distributor back in Pennsylvania. At one time, he was the Morini distributor. I know there are other good suppliers out there as well.
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I used to get parts from Joe Eish, too. He was totally old school. He would send the parts with a bill, and I would send him a check. Plus a discount if you belonged to the MGNOC. Being a farmer, he would always ask how the haying season was going, the price of cattle, how the weather was,etc. etc. Having grown up in Akron, Ohio, I always enjoyed hearing how things were going back in "the old country", too.
I don't know if you were ever able to get to Joe Eish's place, but it was worth the trip if you were at a rally at New Cumberland or the Toronto Band Camp.
You'd head into the boonies, and about 200 yards before you just knew you were going to fall off the edge of the earth, there it was back in the trees. You'd walk to the shop, shooing ducks and geese out of the way, and (as you say) "old school" was all over it. He had brand new 5 and 10 year old bikes that I never had the nerve to ask if they were for sale or not .... ! Lots of fun.
Lannis
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My engine parts won't arrive until Tuesday, so yesterday was transmission day. When I drained the oil, no water came out and the old oil was pretty clean looking. I didn't see any metal particles at all. The neutral safety switch plastic housing was destroyed from exposure to sunlight so I planned to replace it. I had to use a slide hammer to get it out. The white powdery aluminum corrosion in the case was really bonded to the plastic. I had to scrape the bore to get it cleaned out. I would never expect a reaction between alloy and plastic. Then I got the case all cleaned up and pulled the rear cover. Everything inside looked really nice. Hardly any wear and the bearings cleaned nicely and felt great. Just have to change all the seals. It still has the original style shift return spring. It looked fine, but I am upgrading it to the newer style as Dave R suggests in Guzziology as a preventative. When I got this out of the desert, the engine was seized and it was in gear. Once I got the engine freed up, I did manage to get it into neutral This was manufactured in June of 1973 and is registered as a 1974. It shifts on the left. Does any one know if its shift pattern would be 1 down and 4 up, or 1 up and 4 down? I know the shift drum is different, but this is the first Guzzi tranny I have ever had apart, so I don't know what to look for on the shift drum to tell me.
Si Abeid
Kettle Falls, WA
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This was manufactured in June of 1973 and is registered as a 1974. It shifts on the left. Does any one know if its shift pattern would be 1 down and 4 up, or 1 up and 4 down? I know the shift drum is different, but this is the first Guzzi tranny I have ever had apart, so I don't know what to look for on the shift drum to tell me.
Si Abeid
Kettle Falls, WA
It should be 1 up and 4 down. It would be hard to explain what to look for on the shift drum to tell the difference.
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:1:. You up by the dam?
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One quick way to tell if someone put a later shift drum in if it looks like this one from a T3 (notice the detent slots):
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bX5FFa/T3_shift_drum_001.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bX5FFa)
If it has holes for the detent, then it likely hasn't been changed.
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Thanks, guys. It looks like the picture of the t3 drum. I would be happy if it shifted "normally". My muscle memory is pretty dialed in to the left side 1 down 4 up of the last 40 plus years. Tom, do you mean the Grand Coulee Dam? I am near the Columbia River 50 or so miles north of the dam. We are about 85 miles north of Spokane and 45 miles south of Rossland, B.C. Kettle Falls is on WA route 20, which farther west is the North Cascades Highway.
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Thanks, guys. It looks like the picture of the t3 drum. I would be happy if it shifted "normally". My muscle memory is pretty dialed in to the left side 1 down 4 up of the last 40 plus years. Tom, do you mean the Grand Coulee Dam? I am near the Columbia River 50 or so miles north of the dam. We are about 85 miles north of Spokane and 45 miles south of Rossland, B.C. Kettle Falls is on WA route 20, which farther west is the North Cascades Highway.
I'm not sure how early they went to the slots vs. holes. Eldos have holes (and backwards pattern). I'll take a few photos of the slots in the drum for the shift forks. That will give you a better idea.
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I'm not sure how early they went to the slots vs. holes. Eldos have holes (and backwards pattern). I'll take a few photos of the slots in the drum for the shift forks. That will give you a better idea.
T3 shift drum again.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kkdcva/shift_drum_2_001.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kkdcva)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jjfCTv/shift_drum_2_002.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jjfCTv)
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Good Progress Si
can wait to see her.
You coming down Sunday for Breakfast at Felts Field?
I plan on being there
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I have gotten quite a bit done in the last few weeks. Cleaned up the frame and painted it. Opened up the tranny and renewed the seals. Reassembled the engine and clutch and reunited it with the transmission. The engine got new Gilardonis and pistons, the heads got new guides and exhaust valves, new rod bearings, timing chain and idler, and stainless oil lines. Everything else measured out OK. Disassembled the distributor and and am waiting for points and condensers. The distributor was even full of bug nests. Bugs and sand were literally everywhere on this bike. I straightened out the bent right swan neck and reinstalled them and the forks to the frame. I am starting to be able to see it as a bike again. Starting in on the wiring harness. Got some new Road Riders, so can start in on the wheels, too.
Here is the new tank and the tool boxes ready to get turned green. Quite a contrast between the old seat and new!(http://thumb.ibb.co/nHjbbF/KIMG0204.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nHjbbF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kecUwF/KIMG0214.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kecUwF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hAYDOv/KIMG0222.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hAYDOv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jgvzwF/KIMG0223.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jgvzwF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dumHiv/KIMG0226.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dumHiv)
Between the shot gun pellets, dent and rust inside, I figured a new tank was in order. Likewise, the old seat was totally worthless. Other than that, I am trying to use as much of the original parts as possible trying to clean and shine them as well as I can. I want to keep it's history and patina, but still look pretty decent. So far, it is cleaning up pretty well. I sure appreciate all the help and advice I have gotten from you all so far.
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:thumb:
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That's an amazing amount of progress in a short time; it would be in MY shop, anyhow! Good work.
Lannis
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Saibeid I am with Lannis on this,you have accomplished a lot in a very short period. You must have made this the #1 priority on your list. Or is your shop home to tiny elves that work at night? At this rate you will be ridding by June or July. Amazing and impressive.
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:thumb: :thumb:
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Great progress :1:
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This is great. It really makes me want to find an old bike to restore.
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Wow Si i knew you were working on it But had no clue the pace
Great progress, looking forward to seeing it soon.
It found a good Home.
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If given the chance, I'd have bought the bike. But I think it went to the right place - it's impressive how quickly it's coming together. Well done!
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:1:
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Looking great Simon. Very cool.
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One of the best posts in recent times. Like a good novel, and you involved us from the very start. Thanks and great going, somewhat of an inspiration !!
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You guys that make a bike rise from the dead have my unending admiration...wish I had the garage space and the money 'cause I have the time...enjoying the progress! :bow:
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/kqB6mQ/P1010010.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kqB6mQ)
anonymous photo upload (http://imgbb.com/)
I restore loopframes and always had a hard time with those exhaust nuts... some of which I could just not remove. Messed up a few heads in the process. Then, I had a special took made that turned it into an easy proposition: This is a beast of a wrench that is designed to be pounded on with a hammer. I always cut the exhaust pipes, but, if you wish to save them you can cut the tool so that it fits over the pipe. I have been using the same tool for upwards of 30 or so heads and have never failed to remove the nuts quickly (well, some are not so quick, but they all come off). Contact me with your name and address if you still need to get those nuts off, and I will send you one of these tools. Lee Davis
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Thanks for the offer, Lee. I managed to get the header off awhile ago.
With springtime"s arrival , I have been busy with other things, so have been working mostly on small things for the last month or so on the bike. Got the swing arm cleaned up and painted and the bearings renewed. Also cleaned up and painted a whole bunch of small parts. I finally started in on the wheels. The old tires were so hard,I had to remove them with a sawzall and bolt cutters. I have new bearings ready to go in, but have a lot of cleaning to do first. Both Borrani rims have a dent. The rear is worse than the front. Does anyone know how to straighten them? Or does anyone know of someone who can do it?
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Woody's Wheelworks offers straightening.
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How's it going? I guess progress stopped for the summer.
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/kqB6mQ/P1010010.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kqB6mQ)
anonymous photo upload (http://imgbb.com/)
Wow -- wish I knew about this when I buggered mine up getting them off the Eldo. Thankfully, my machinist was able to repair threads in the head.
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Hello all,
Yes. No progress during riding season. I did get a few nice trips in this year. That is coming to an end, though. I'll probably get back to it in November. I got the wheels straightened by Buchanans and put some Roadriders on them. I am anxious to get the major components into the frame so it will look like a motorcycle again, instead of a pile of parts. Thanks for all of the encouragement over the past year.
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Looking forward to pics of the completed bike!!
Tom
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Me too!
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It is starting to go back together! I dragged everything out of the corner and got the frame onto the lift table. It is amazing how many details you forget when you walk away from a project for awhile. I'm glad I found my notepad! I cleaned up the fender and brake plates and got the front end and wheel assembly reattached. I am not going for a super polished look. I mainly want it to look pretty original. NAPA aluminum brightener has been working great on the aluminum parts and bronze wool really cleans up the chrome parts nicely. I'm really surprised how good the old thing is cleaning up. Today I got the engine and trans assembly and centerstand reattached in the frame and it is starting to resemble a motorcycle. I started cleaning up the brake and shift rods so I can get them in before the swing arm. They are really a mess. I sure hope I can remember how all of that goes back together. They are pretty complicated compared to my other Tontis, so I can't look at the T3 or LM3 for guidance.
I probably won't be able to do a whole lot until after Christmas. I hope to get at least one more weekend day in anyway. I'll try to get some pics up next time.
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I hope to get at least one more weekend day in anyway. I'll try to get some pics up next time.
We'll be waiting! This is a really encouraging and interesting thread.
Lannis
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It is starting to go back together!
Great - looking forward to the pics!
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:1: You get snow yet? You're in Colville???
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You get snow yet? You're in Colville?
Between Kettle and Rice. Higher elevation. We have a few inches, but the valley floors are still clear. We had about 18" on the ground, but it got pretty warm around Thanksgiving and most of it melted. It cooled off again, but there hasn't been any precipitation since. If I lived in the valley, I could still ride.
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If the National rally takes place in the Seattle are, I might be leaving the SP back up in Sagle. We'll have to see. Might be a good time to "launch" your bike for it's first public showing. :thumb: They're looking at a June date.... I dunno. :tongue:
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I finally got in a good weekend of work on the Sport. Reinstalled the u joint and swing arm. For some reason it did not want to fit back in. Then after quite a bit of fiddling and a little bit of swearing it dropped right in. I got the brake and shift rods cleaned up and reinstalled, then the connector piece between the tranny and frame. Then it was time to get to the last sub assemblies that I had been dreading. The rear drive and the rear brake. The rear brake was (and still is) frozen solid, and the rear drive had quite a bit of water come out when I initially drained it. I completely disassembled it and was pleasantly surprised to find the bearings OK. The ring and pinion gears looked really good, but had a small amount of rust on them in spots. That cleaned off really easily on the wire wheel. My biggest source of concern was a row of very bad pitting on the splined flange that the ring gear attaches to. Clearly caused by sitting with the moisture in it. It was in the area where the big bearing and seal go. I was very afraid that the pitting was in the sealing area. After much work with the emery cloth I got the pits about 2/3 removed. I studied and measured and studied some more and I believe that the pitting is in the area between the bearing and the sealing surface, not actually on the sealing surface. I put it back together and will see what happens. If it leaks, I will find out if I am right or wrong and maybe have to take it back apart and replace that part with an expensive new one. The housing had some weird black over spray on it as well as some really bad staining. The seals were shot and it had obviously been leaking a lot before the bike quit running. I could not get it to clean up without sending it off somewhere, so it got a paint job. The drive gears themselves look like they don't have many miles on them. The teeth are very nice and they mesh together very smoothly. I removed as much off of the rear brake assy as I could, and started hosing it down with Moov-it. Hopefully after a week or so, I will be able to get it apart.The under seat light and the brake switch light switch looked terrible. I figured that they would both go into the trash can, but after a good cleaning and checking with a meter they seemed to be okay. The light bulb in the underseat light even still works. It is funny working on this thing. Some stuff is complete junk, some of it is OK, and some is in really good condition.
Next session, I hope to get the rear brake squared away and it all reassembled so that it is standing on its own 2 wheels. I have all the new cables ordered and Larry of Meticulous Motorcycle Painting in Sandpoint, ID says he will be ready to turn the tank and tool boxes green in the next couple of weeks. Let's see if I can remember how to send pictures. (http://[img][img])[/img][/img]
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Good thing that you're able to revive the under seat light. It's worth the effort to have the original one working. Is Larry the bike shop in downtown Sandpoint across from the surplus store?
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No. He works out of an auto body shop. He used to be in Spokane, but moved to Sandpoint a few years ago.
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/fHBw4G/v7_right_partial.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fHBw4G)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cOLOjG/v7_left_partial.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cOLOjG)
image ru (http://imgbb.com/)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/ibh3jG/v7_seat_light.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ibh3jG)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gEJFyb/v7_rear_brake.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gEJFyb)
where to upload images (http://imgbb.com/)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mqA64G/v7_rear_drive.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mqA64G)
Here are a few pics. I screwed up sending them the first time.
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I've had problems with the surface that large oil seal runs on being pitted more than once. Sometimes a good clean-up has been enough. Once I filled the pits with plastic metal which worked. Originally the seal was a single lipped type and the pits tend to be just where it needs to seat. I've found that using a double lipped seal as a replacement helps to move the surface the seal runs on just enough to be able to get away with it.
https://racingrhino.wordpress.com/2015/03/21/replacing-the-drivebox-oil-seal-21-mar-2015/ (https://racingrhino.wordpress.com/2015/03/21/replacing-the-drivebox-oil-seal-21-mar-2015/)
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Thanks for the tip and the link to your projects. The new seal I used was the double lipped type, so I have my fingers crossed.
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Looking great!
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You might try putting the rear brake backing plate in the oven and heating it to ~ 300* F.
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These are the best threads bar none !
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So you made a kitchen in the garage? :grin: or you live alone and the kitchen is the bike garage? :grin: :thumb: :thumb: The bike is looking good.
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WOW!!!!! :thumb:
Tom
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So you made a kitchen in the garage? :grin: or you live alone and the kitchen is the bike garage? :grin: :thumb: :thumb: The bike is looking good.
Ha Ha. I am a custom home builder and also do remodels. All of the cabinets in my shop have been pulled out of various remodel jobs that I have doneover the years. Some of them are those cool 1950 metal cabinets. A couple of years ago I did a kitchen remodel for a farmer. He kept his old cabinets for his shop, but he did give me a KZ1000 that had been sitting in his garage for 10 years. That will be a project for another winter.
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:thumb:
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:thumb:
Noob lurker here.
Outstanding resurrection Si.
I have enough bike mechanic knowledge to get myself in trouble.
This thread is dangerous for me, as I can see great results with an obviously competent mechanic, and I would overstep my ability and take one something way over my head.
Looking forward to the end product.
Nice work!!
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/j4HhOm/r_rear_1_28_18.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j4HhOm)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cgO6im/v7_l_rear_1_28_18.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cgO6im)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/drSGim/v7_sport_brake_spring_tool.jpg) (http://ibb.co/drSGim)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jL25b6/v_7_sport_cleaned_up_rear_brake.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jL25b6)
I made some good progress this weekend. After soaking the brake housing in Moov-it all week, tapping and working it for a few minutes every night after work, I managed to get all of the brake components out. The shoes appear to be in good shape, so I just cleaned them up good with some sand paper and brake cleaner. The holes that fit over the pins took a lot of work to finally move nice and smoothly, but a 1/2" diameter brass "bottle brush" did the trick eventually. I cleaned up the pins with emery cloth and polished them. The rotating pins that engage the shoes like wise needed a good polishing. After several goings over with napa aluminum brightener, a scotch pad, and some bronze wool the brake housing was starting to look pretty good. A little bit of aluminum polish and a soft rag got it looking pretty respectable. A little bit of Napa Syl-Glide on all the moving parts and it was ready for the brake shoes. The only problem was how to stretch those brake shoe springs??!!? Finally I dug out my mcperson strut spring compressors and after a little re arranging of parts, it pushed the shoes right apart and on they went. I reinstalled the inner fender, then the brake assembly and rear wheel. Then the shocks. Got the brake foot lever on and the brake rod cleaned up and installed and the brakes adjusted. I can not remember for the life of me how the brake light switch was attached. A good reason to take lots of pictures when disassembling. Something I clearly didn't do enough of. Anyway, it looks like a motorcycle again! Those new Ikons sure are pretty!
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Good work :thumb: A suggestion, next time try putting the springs on last after fitting the brake shoes on. Locking pliers or a brake shoe pliers to stretch out the springs after fitting one end in.
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It looks great Si! Beautiful. Congrats. I love the use of the Macpherson spring compressor - I'm doing that next time!
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/kynNA7/v7sport_left_side_header.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kynNA7)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kOsTiS/v7sport_right_with_headers.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kOsTiS)
pic upload (http://imgbb.com/)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eW6zq7/v7sport_license_plate.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eW6zq7)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eWLsA7/v7sport_gauges.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eWLsA7)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jVLCcn/v7sport_fuse_box.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jVLCcn)
I haven't posted for awhile, but have gotten quite a bit done in the last 4 or 5 weeks. The rear drive went back together nicely and then it was time for the shocks and rear wheel, rear fender and seat. It was standing up on its own! I got the carbs apart and finally unboxed my Harbor Freight Ultrasonic cleaner that had been sitting on the shelf for a year or so. The carbs came apart easily, but they had a lot of built up residue stuck to the insides. I put a 50/50 mixture of Purple Power and water in the ultrasonic cleaner and all of the parts from the carb except the float and float valve. 6 minutes with the ultra sound and heat and they were cleaned up. I rinsed with water and scraped a couple of tough spots with a dental pick and sprayed all passageways with carb cleaner and compressed air and put in a new float and float valve and put the carb back together. Repeat with the other side. It was very impressive how well the ultrasonic cleaner worked. Hopefully, the bug nests that were in the carb fuel strainers are the last of the bug nests that need to be dug out. I have found bug nests on or in every component of the bike that I have disassembled!
The exhaust headers and crossover were really horrible looking, but with lots of work with bronze wool, they started to look halfway decent. I got them installed and ordered a set of shark gill mufflers, but they have not arrived yet. When I found the bike, it was missing the mufflers.
I had some extra gauges and a dash from an 850t in the parts stash, as well as 2 nos pillbox switches, so got the dash and control set up installed. This bike did not have gauges or a headlight or turn signals when I found it. The only correct headlights I have seen for a v7 sport have been going for upwards of $400, so I got a new, incorrect light from MG Cycle and got it installed. I had a set of Lucas turn signals, so used them. The bike had the brackets for the rear, but not the front, so I made a pair and got the signals installed. I had planned to remove the loom on the old wiring harness, and correct what needed to be corrected, but after checking a few wires with the meter, I found that the vast majority had a lot of resistance, even with the connectors all cleaned up. So I got a new main harness for it and got it mostly installed along with the electrical components. The ignition switch that came on it was completely frozen up. I found a nos switch on ebay that had the original steering lock sliding piece, so I bought it. I installed that and hooked up a battery and nothing. This bike is a late 1973, and I have found that a wiring diagram for a 1972 v7 sport and a 1975 750s both are partially correct, so it has taken me quite a bit of studying and head scratching to get it figured out. I can't find a wiring diagram for a late 1973 or 1974 v7sport exactly. I dug out the original ignition switch and compared it to the new one and found them to look exactly the same except that the wires coming out of the new ones have the colors mixed up . I think I have figured it out now, but haven't had time to give it a try yet. I have been going very easily and slowly with the wiring, because I am nervous about hooking something up incorrectly and frying the alternator or rectifier.
Once I get the wiring sorted, about all that will be left will be to install the carbs and all of the cables and then it will be time to try starting it!
Si Abeid
Kettle Falls, WA
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:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Looks great Si! Very nice work. Love the license plate frame! :thumb:
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Can't wait to see this labor of love finished!! :thumb:
Tom
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Last weekend I got the wiring sorted and all of the cables installed and adjusted. The new ignition switch had the wiring colors different than the original, so that took a little figuring out. I got the battery hooked up and everything worked! The turn signals flashed, the horns beeped, the light dimmer dimmed. The new ignition switch has the cool car style way of engaging the starter. I cranked the engine over 4 spins and the oil pressure light went out - a very good sign. I put it in gear and the neutral light went out - another good sign. I had an old set of Napolean bar end mirrors sitting around, so I gave them a fresh coat of satin black and got them installed. I also had a used Dart flyscreen laying around, so modified and installed that, too. I test fitted the new tank and it looked like a motorcycle. I got a nice looking set of used Lafranconi mufflers off ebay, and they are on their way here. I had ordered some sharkgills, but they were back ordered, so the used Lafranconis saved me a couple hundred bucks and are still period correct. I hope they aren't too loud. This Saturday, I am taking the tank and tool boxes to Sandpoint to be painted green. Larry finally got me scheduled in. All that I have left to do to start it is get the mufflers on and check the timing. I even got 2 gallons of ethanol free premium gas the other day. It is getting close...
Does anyone know the official paint code for the metallic green color? I have not been able to find it anywhere. My wife thinks that the color used on Kia Souls called Alien2 is really close. If I can't find the factory official color, we will probably use that. It seems like the v11 sport green is a little more yellow than the 1970's green, though I really like it.
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:thumb: I just got some oem handle bars for my '73 maroon.
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That is coming along very nicely.
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Last weekend I took the tool boxes and tank over to Sandpoint to the painter. Monday the mufflers came and I put them on. Yesterday I checked the valves and timing. This morning I hooked up the temporary tank. I cranked it over until the oil pressure light went out then opened up the tank petcock. I had to tighten up a couple of hose clamps and it was time. It cranked over 3 times and fired right up. I let it run for about 5 or 10 minutes until it got warm. Synched the carbs and it ran really nice! The only glitches so far are a slight oil leak at the right head. I think it is the valve cover. The other is the charge light stays on. Max charge is 13.6 volts, so it is charging somewhat. I think it should be a little over 14 or so. So that is the next thing to check out.
It sure is a great feeling when you first fire up something that was so neglected and it comes back to life!
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:thumb: Way to go! Start doing a virtual ride in your mind. Left foot brake and right foot shift with one up/four down. Start training your mind. It'll be real fun till you get the muscle memory. :evil:
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That's a great result and I know it's got to feel good, endorphins flowing like crazy listening to it beating along ....
The saga continues ... !
Lannis
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:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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HOW COOL!!!!
I'm thinking something's not right with the diode board. But who knows? It's a simple system, but troubleshooting it can be crazy.
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You might want to try on of these adjustable voltage regulators to get your charging voltage up to snuff... I fitted one and it works very well. The adjustment feature is quite useful.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_161&products_id=1110
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This weekend, I retorqued the heads and readjusted the valves. No more oil leak. The charging system was more interesting. I started at the rotor and stator. Everything checked out, but I found a few more connections to clean up. Got up to the rectifier and voltage regulator. It turned out that I had wired the charge light into the lighting circuit instead of the rectifier. Got that switched around, started it up and the light went out. It is charging 13.8 volts with the lights on. According to Dave Richardson in Guzziology, that is about all you get with the early 14 amp charging system that the v7 sport and 850t came with, so for now I'm calling that good. All that is left is getting the tank and tool boxes back from the painter and it will be road test time.
Thanks to Dave Richardson and Greg Bender for all of the info they have provided to us all over the years. It would have been a lot tougher doing this rebuild without all of their writings. And thanks to all of the rest of you for your tips and encouragement. When I get the tank and tool boxes on, I'll post some pics of the finished project.
Si Abeid
Kettle Falls, WA
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Thanks to Dave Richardson and Greg Bender for all of the info they have provided to us all over the years......
Si Abeid
Kettle Falls, WA
Hard to believe it's been "years", but it just about has been!! That's some stick-to-itiveness right there ....
Lannis
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Congrats for fixing the charging. Can't wait to see the photos. Looking forward to seeing it this summer. :bike-037:
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That plate is the bees knees, maybe you can plate it with the post in mind. Great Job
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Fix it, repair it, make it work. :thumb: Attaboy X3. :smiley:
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I finally got my parts back from the painter on Sunday. He sure did a beautiful job. The pearl in the green paint looks great in the sun. It was definitely worth the wait! I got them installed Sunday evening and was able to go for about a one mile ride Tuesday evening. I know that I have a lot of tweaking to do, but so far I am pretty happy with it. It starts instantly, but is a bit cold blooded. The clutch and brakes seem to work well. The shift pattern is 1 up and 4 down. I only got it up to second gear on my gravel road, but those two worked well. I had to tighten up a couple of bolts, and a carb float bowl. My neighbor who is a professional photographer is coming over tonight or tomorrow to take some "glamour" shots. I want to do that before I venture out down to the highway and really test it out. Once I go 3.5 miles down the county road to the highway, it will never be as clean again!
(https://thumb.ibb.co/edmJRd/v7sport_complete.jpg) (https://ibb.co/edmJRd)
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Congrats. :thumb: Brake left side and shift right side....correct??? Have fun retraining your brain. To get a good feel for the engine and drivetrain. Ignore tach and shift at higher rev's around 5K.
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Looks fantastic, great work saving that old classic!
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:thumb: :thumb:
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I finally got my parts back from the painter on Sunday. He sure did a beautiful job. The pearl in the green paint looks great in the sun. It was definitely worth the wait! I got them installed Sunday evening and was able to go for about a one mile ride Tuesday evening. I know that I have a lot of tweaking to do, but so far I am pretty happy with it. It starts instantly, but is a bit cold blooded. The clutch and brakes seem to work well. The shift pattern is 1 up and 4 down. I only got it up to second gear on my gravel road, but those two worked well. I had to tighten up a couple of bolts, and a carb float bowl. My neighbor who is a professional photographer is coming over tonight or tomorrow to take some "glamour" shots. I want to do that before I venture out down to the highway and really test it out. Once I go 3.5 miles down the county road to the highway, it will never be as clean again!
(https://thumb.ibb.co/edmJRd/v7sport_complete.jpg) (https://ibb.co/edmJRd)
I'll have to get those pro pictures on my tablet and show .....Dan (I think his name was) what has become of his old decoration.
I would have never imagined it could look so good. Great job! :bow: :bow: :bow:
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(https://thumb.ibb.co/edmJRd/v7sport_complete.jpg) (https://ibb.co/edmJRd)
Wow..... just wow. Great job saving it from the slow painful death that it was suffering. :thumb:
It looks great. I'd be proud to have that in my garage!
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Beautiful work! Congratulations.
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I ran into my first major glitch. After returning from my first test run of about a mile, it looked a little strange how it sat, and was harder to put on the center stand. The front end was compressed, and it would not return to normal at rest position. I have rebuilt the front end on my t3 and lm3 and this one is the same. It even uses the same components. I pulled it apart today and it was very difficult to get the front axle out. When everything was out of the way, the right fork sprung back to where it belonged, but the left one stayed compressed a couple of inches. I pulled them off of the bike and put both assemblies on the bench for comparison purposes. I completely disassembled the left one. The fork tube will slide about 2/3 of the way into the lower fork leg, but then becomes stuck. These are new fork tubes in the original lower fork legs. I checked the tube for straightness and it was straight. I also mic'ed it and it was the same all the way around and for the entire length. This bike definitely had a rough life before being abandoned. I know it went down on the right side. It is the left side that is sticking. I could not tell for sure if the lower fork leg is bent, but it looks ok. I don't even know how that could be bent. I was hoping that some of you more knowledgeable rebuilders might have some ideas, and also how to correct it. I think finding a lower fork leg for a drum brake v7 sport might not be very easy. Any ideas?
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Something has to be misaligned preventing the movement of the tube. Sorry, I don't have any input for correction of the problem.
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Have you checked the diameter of the stanchions against the spec (max 34.690mm for a T3)? I brought 2 new stanchions from Stein Dinse and had to return one because it was oversize.
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Good thought. I will do that this evening.
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I think I found the problem. I pulled the old tube out of the scrap iron pile. It slid right in. It measures 34.65mm. The new tubes measure 34.70 mm. I think that I will carefully use a brake cylinder hone on the lower legs to enlarge them slightly. The reason it goes partially in is probably due to the top part being slightly worn.
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You might try something a little less abrasive - I'd be wary of using a brake hone on aluminum.
I'd suggest using some valve grinding compound or even polishing compound and working the old tube into the slider.
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The wheel cylinder hones did the trick. The tubes are now sliding like they should. I should have checked that the first time. The other times that I have had front ends apart, they were in working condition to start with. It never occurred to me that the tubes would not necessarily fit. Duh! You live and learn. Now to put it all back together again....
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:thumb:
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What a great job you've done here .......... tips hat
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We had the glamour picture shots done last evening, so today was the day to get it dirty. The good - It runs and handles great. The Wirth springs, new dampers and Ikon shocks seem to be the ticket. No fork tube problems after honing the lowers. Engine pulls very strongly and carburation seems to be spot on. I kind of like the 1 up 4 down shift pattern. The bad - I have to pull the tranny out! It is leaking pretty badly out of the front, the shifter return spring isn't returning, and the speedo drive isn't driving. As my Mom used to say :"There's always something...." All in all, though, I'm very happy with it.
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:thumb: Way ahead of when you first got it.
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We had the glamour picture shots done last evening, so today was the day to get it dirty. The good - It runs and handles great. The Wirth springs, new dampers and Ikon shocks seem to be the ticket. No fork tube problems after honing the lowers. Engine pulls very strongly and carburation seems to be spot on. I kind of like the 1 up 4 down shift pattern. The bad - I have to pull the tranny out! It is leaking pretty badly out of the front, the shifter return spring isn't returning, and the speedo drive isn't driving. As my Mom used to say :"There's always something...." All in all, though, I'm very happy with it.
Sounds like my experiences, I have pulled a transmission more than once on a rebuild.
When you get the transmission and clutch off check the breather tube seal, the long half circle vent tube, I have had persistent leaks out of the through bolt that is secured into the base of the engine block. I seal off the larger breather tube and push low pressure, say 10 psi into the top of the smaller diameter breather, watch for leaks, the leak I had between the crush washers and bolt / tube was immediately evident. The threads in the block were stripped on my engine and I needed to fit a helicoil
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Thanks for the great tip, Canuck.
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This is my Eldorado block, the surface was not square, a helicoli fixed it and new aluminum crush washers
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/1972%20Moto%20Guzzi%20850%20Eldorado/DSC05873_zpsgxn2psul.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/1972%20Moto%20Guzzi%20850%20Eldorado/DSC05873_zpsgxn2psul.jpg.html)
Plus thread lock and new crush washers
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/1972%20Moto%20Guzzi%20850%20Eldorado/DSC05874_zpsaiv8xhbb.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/1972%20Moto%20Guzzi%20850%20Eldorado/DSC05874_zpsaiv8xhbb.jpg.html)
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What a great job! Has been fun watching this story, from find to finish. Has the previous “owner” seem any photos? I would sure think that he would be very appreciative of the work you have done to his fence post!
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In my shake down runs, I had three problems - Leaking gear oil, speedo not working and the shift return spring not functioning. All in all, I was quite happy with how well it ran for something that had just been a yard ornament for so many years. Still, it was a let down to think about pulling it back apart after only 25 miles. Since it was riding season, I just pushed the v7 to the side. With the return of cold weather, I finally got inspired to go back to work on it. Pulled the trans out last Sunday and put it on the bench. Yes, I screwed up installing the return spring. Put it in the right way and put the box rear back together. I could not see any evidence of seals leaking, but did find that the drain plug was not quite sealing completely and there was a slight drip running down the bottom of the case and dripping off by the hole in the bell housing. It made it look like it was leaking from the inside. Another new gasket and that was fixed. The speedo cable grommet needed to be repositioned, and that seemed to fix that. I put the trans back in and got the bike about 90% put back together today. I'd like to complete it tomorrow, but my wife is clamoring to decorate for Christmas. It's supposed to start snowing seriously tomorrow anyway....
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The last 10% always seems to take 90% of the effort. It's like it takes a superhuman push to completely finish the job. Just think how cool it'll be riding it and nothing's wrong.
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In my shake down runs, I had three problems - Leaking gear oil, speedo not working and the shift return spring not functioning. All in all, I was quite happy with how well it ran for something that had just been a yard ornament for so many years. Still, it was a let down to think about pulling it back apart after only 25 miles. Since it was riding season, I just pushed the v7 to the side. With the return of cold weather, I finally got inspired to go back to work on it. Pulled the trans out last Sunday and put it on the bench. Yes, I screwed up installing the return spring. Put it in the right way and put the box rear back together. I could not see any evidence of seals leaking, but did find that the drain plug was not quite sealing completely and there was a slight drip running down the bottom of the case and dripping off by the hole in the bell housing. It made it look like it was leaking from the inside. Another new gasket and that was fixed. The speedo cable grommet needed to be repositioned, and that seemed to fix that. I put the trans back in and got the bike about 90% put back together today. I'd like to complete it tomorrow, but my wife is clamoring to decorate for Christmas. It's supposed to start snowing seriously tomorrow anyway....
I have to replace the shift lever return spring on my Eldo hack too. Where did you get your spring from? Curious.....I got mine from MG Cycles in WI. Forgot to order a gasket however..... :tongue: So how was riding it around with a right shift?
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I got the spring from MG Cycle. This bike has left hand shift, but it is 1 up and 4 down. I actually liked the pattern, but I put a little label up by the controls to remind me. Test riding it, I was paying attention to everything, so the muscle memory wasn't an issue. Once I start using it normally, though, I think that there are likely going to be some shifts in the wrong direction!
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Great build!! Thats the way to bring them back alive!
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Siabeid....I wonder if the linkage got change to do a left hand shift??? IIRC your bike is originally maroon w/4 leading shoe brakes. Charlie can jump in but it probably was a right hand shift bike.
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It has 4 leading shoe brakes, but was originally black as far as I can tell. It was built in June 1973, but is registered as a 1974. It has a rear brake rod, not a cable, and a timing chain not gears.
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WOW !!! More pictures please!
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A very late update. It has been well over a year since I posted about this. I had to pull the trans apart and fix the shift return spring. I got it going about this time last Spring and took it out for a test run. It shifted great. I found the oil leak. It was transmission oil coming out of the detent cap/ "breather" on the side of the trans behind the starter. The bike ran fine for about 20 miles and then started misfiring badly. I barely made it home up the mountain, but it did get me here. By this time, it was getting nice out, so I rolled it into the corner with a sheet on it and waited for Winter. By this time it had about 60 miles on it, so I changed the oil, retorqued the heads, adjusted the valves, checked everything for tightness, etc. etc, and then started looking for the problem. I checked the carbs and everything seemed OK. Checked the points and timing. That was good. Then I remembered hearing people complaining about bad condensers, so I ordered a pair of Marellis from MG Cycle. That was it! It is now running fantastic and I hope to actually get it all sorted and use it this year. I just ordered a new transmission breather cap set up for a 5/16 hose, and hopefully that will cure the trans oil drip. It has been kind of nice in these strange times to have more time to actually work on things.
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That whole thread is just fantastic... :bow: :thumb:
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Good to hear! :thumb: :thumb:
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(https://i.ibb.co/2qwWDtV/v7s-left-front.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2qwWDtV)
(https://i.ibb.co/j89JH2R/v7s-rear-left.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j89JH2R)
(https://i.ibb.co/44g2cVR/v7s-rear.jpg) (https://ibb.co/44g2cVR)
(https://i.ibb.co/FqBWGxp/v7s-controls.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FqBWGxp)
(https://i.ibb.co/THYxvk2/v7s-shotgun-pellets.jpg) (https://ibb.co/THYxvk2)
(https://i.ibb.co/8d0Mfk3/v7sport-complete.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8d0Mfk3)
(https://i.ibb.co/TWs9Wgp/v7-sport-left.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TWs9Wgp)
(https://i.ibb.co/y5YHHwM/v7-sport-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y5YHHwM)
(https://i.ibb.co/B2HbPh0/v7-sport-front.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B2HbPh0)
google high quality photos (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/FY2p0QC/v7-sport-rear.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FY2p0QC)
I have about 400 miles on the bike now, and it is running really well, and is a blast to ride. I am finally trying to get some pics up of the finished product, as well as a few pictures from the day I brought it home. There is one picture of it finished of the rear fender and tail light. That is showing the shotgun pellets from when it got shot by someone when it was leaning against the fence out in the desert. I didn't want to eliminate all of its history. It has been over 3 years, $8500 and countless hours, but it sure has been a very satisfying project bringing it back to life. Thanks for all of the help and advice.
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:thumb: Cool to leave the rear fender that way.
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Looks great, nice job.
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Looks fantastic! An epic save :bow: :bow: :bow:
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Incredible!!! Fantastic job!! :bow: :bow: :bow:
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I have just bumped this for czakky82 so it doesn’t disappear into obscurity.
I have no dog in this fight at all, but I love build threads and after looking through Canuck’s stuff, I’m reminded that they pack more “punch per dollar” than most other topics.
Big trips and such are good coffee table reads, but the blood and guts of deep seated ownership has no more solid home, than in the world of the master restorer.
We’d be the poorer without them...
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I posted this awhile ago on another thread:
https://youtu.be/KFdFsfSAuyc
"A stick candle and a lighter"
Internet myth...
https://youtu.be/bIunR4VL5vc?si=V4p_lIPboEzTKPLD