Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chuck in Indiana on October 10, 2019, 09:31:35 AM
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AeroLario 750cc engine.
Over the last 6 months or so, it's becoming hard to crank. The solenoid goes home immediately, but the starter sometimes goes as long as a half second before it cranks the engine. I'm aware of "one of the things to do" with the old small blocks is to remove, clean, inspect and lube the advance mechanism once a year.
I thought maybe the advance was sticking, not coming back to full retard. It *acts* like an engine with too much initial advance.
So, I cleaned and lubed the advance mechanism, and set the timing.
same same.
Wondered about the battery cables, but they appear to my untrained eye to be probably 4 gauge. (roughly .200") Looking that up on the web says they should be fine.
With my limited electrical knowledge, I'm out of "Airspeed, Altitude, and Ideas." :smiley:
What am I missing?
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Take off the plug wires and try, to see if there is a 'backfire' against the starter cranking.
If not, it is likely in the starter.
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Take off the plug wires and try, to see if there is a 'backfire' against the starter cranking.
If not, it is likely in the starter.
Well, duh. Why didn't I think of that? :smiley: It cranks the same, so that takes ignition out of the loop. Do you mean that I might have to (cough cough) spend some money? :grin: Or is it fixable?
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Well, duh. Why didn't I think of that? :smiley: It cranks the same, so that takes ignition out of the loop. Do you mean that I might have to (cough cough) spend some money? :grin: Or is it fixable?
Spend money? :violent1:
What kind of talk is that?
:boozing:
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Spend money? :violent1:
What kind of talk is that?
:boozing:
Good point. I'll take it apart and see if I can find anything wrong.
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What you described is how my R80 acted a few times before the gel battery finally quit .
Push starter button , solenoid engages right quick , then turns real slow , speeds up cranking , and starts . Reminded me of how some high compression hot rod cars would start on a hot summer day .
The battery checked out with my multimeter ; about 12.6 or above , but I never load tested it .
It did that for three or four rides , then it started the drrrrt from the solenoid , while still hot from a long ride .
Replaced the battery , and it's been good since .
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Over the last 6 months or so, it's becoming hard to crank. The solenoid goes home immediately, but the starter sometimes goes as long as a half second before it cranks the engine.
When it finally does crank, are you happy with the cranking speed? Sound normal?
Here is a careful question. When you hit the button you can hear the solenoid go home. Does the starter seem to crank instantly but very poorly?
Or,
Does nothing happen for that lag time and then the starter turns.
If it is the former symptom, then yes I would concur it is like an ignition not returning to idle advance.
However, if it is the latter, I would suspect a corrosive effect inside the solenoid at its rear.
The solenoid does two functions. First is a linear function to thrust the starter pinion forward to engage the ring gear. No spinning allowed! Second, once the solenoid reaches full thrust home, it bridges two massive contacts in the rear which now feed battery power directly to the starter windings to spin it up. It is a two step process.
Sounds like your second step is failing. You can replace the solenoid for clean internal contacts. You're cheap, you can also disassemble to clean and burnish all contacts like new. See Greg Benders site for visual instructions to rebuild a solenoid.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Thanks, Patrick.. I've been busy and haven't gotten back to this.
Here is a careful question. When you hit the button you can hear the solenoid go home. Does the starter seem to crank instantly but very poorly?
Yes.
It takes a (small) bit of time, cranks slowly for a revolution or so, then starts.
If it is the former symptom, then yes I would concur it is like an ignition not returning to idle advance.
That's what I thought, but Wayne's taking the plug leads off and trying it rules that out. It's still the same with no ignition.
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Double check the main battery ground is connected and the starting current is not getting back to the battery by soma alternate route.
I know of a couple of VIIs where the ground had come disconnecter and the circuit was completed by the small black wire from the Voltage regulator, this became red hot and fused to other wires in the loom.
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Double check the main battery ground is connected and the starting current is not getting back to the battery by soma alternate route.
I know of a couple of VIIs where the ground had come disconnecter and the circuit was completed by the small black wire from the Voltage regulator, this became red hot and fused to other wires in the loom.
Thanks, but there's only one ground wire on this bad boy. :smiley:
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From Chuck"
I'm out of "Airspeed, Altitude, and Ideas." :smiley:
What am I missing?
A parachute?
GliderJohn
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From Chuck"A parachute?
GliderJohn
Too low..
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Ball of flames checklist?
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Ok, resolution to this thread..
A new Valeo clone for 60 some bucks shipped free from Amazon. :rolleyes: Cheaper than I could buy the parts to overhaul the Bosch. Came with a test sheet..
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/1eba297ec644e589/IMG_20191012_170613310.jpg)
A little smaller than the Bosch, spins the engine a little faster, and does it instantly.
As much as I hate to admit it, it appears to be very well manufactured.
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/437182b49d228214/IMG_20191012_165422038.jpg)
I *do* lose the kool stick bird solenoid cover, but the AeroLario is a mutt, anyway. :grin:
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I have seen two instances where worn bushes in the rotating assembly have allowed the rotor to contact the stator and use a bunch of the juice intended for the starting......
Once on a high compression drag motor and once on a CX400 Honda. I rebushed the Honda one for the owner and it transformed it.
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I have seen two instances where worn bushes in the rotating assembly have allowed the rotor to contact the stator and use a bunch of the juice intended for the starting......
Once on a high compression drag motor and once on a CX400 Honda. I rebushed the Honda one for the owner and it transformed it.
I should have remembered that. It's pretty obvious because the armature gets polished. It used to be quite common with the old Lucas starters.
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Well, *now* you tell me after I spent 60 some bucks. <snapping suspenders> :smiley: I *have* bearing stock, and could have done that for free. I'll put a tag on it saying "needs rebushed."
Thanks..
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Well, *now* you tell me after I spent 60 some bucks. <snapping suspenders> :smiley: I *have* bearing stock, and could have done that for free. I'll put a tag on it saying "needs rebushed."
Thanks..
I have been told you can't machine those sintered bushes. We used to lube them by filling with oil then squeezing with thumb and forefinger so the oil penetrates the pores.
It would be interesting to see if yours shows sign of rubbing.
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Well, I've already fixed it for 60 some bucks, and don't care enough to open up one of those nasty things to find out. :smiley: It's already in my "good junk" pile with a "needs bushed" tag on it. The next guy can worry about it.