Clutch switch

[Qldbrad]

Hi all,
I have a question about the clutch switch on my v7ii special. I had a parasitic drain on the battery and traced it back to the clutch switch being jammed. Sorted it out and now the bike only starts in neutral, makes no difference if the side stand is up. Can anyone please tell me if this is normal? I have only had the bike for a month, it just seems strange to me that if I was to stall, I have to find neutral again. I thought you should just have to pull clutch and it would fire. Sorry if this has been asked before, I had a search and couldn’t find anything

[Kev m]

Not normal and that's the whole reason you have a clutch switch in the first place.

[Qldbrad]

Thanks Kev M,
Didn’t think so. It is doing something, if I disconnect it will start in gear but runs terrible, popping on decel and wanting to stall. I will try to find a new one somewhere, had a quick look online, they look a bit scarce

[Dirk_S]

Before you search for a new switch, first lubricate it. Then check to see that the clutch lever’s tab is actually properly engaging with the switch button. I recently found that my clutch lever wasn’t, allowing me to start in neutral only, just like you. When I looked at the clutch lever, I found that the pivot action was messy—the pivot pin had too much space to move in its axis, which resulted in poor switch engagement. I imagine that it may have had a pivot collar at one point, but I must’ve forgotten to install it when I replaced the clutch lever. I dug up a bushing that was lying around that fit the space. Chopped it down to fit; now the switch engages properly all the time.

[Alfetta]

Sounds to me like your side stand switch is bad.  my V7iii will not start with the side stand down, unless it's in neutral, regardless of the clutch levers position.

[Kev m]

I think I saw the rideability symptoms in another thread you posted on the subject but I didn't feel like getting into it.

That said, I haven't checked a wiring diagram but I fail to understand how the clutch switch could cause a performance issue.

Most OEMs use the clutch switch as a go/no-go on part of the starter relay circuit and nothing more.

As Alfetta suggests though the side-stand switch is usually linked to the some part of the engine running circuit so that it cuts engine operation if the stand is deployed or falls to the extended position with the engine already running. If say the spring is weak and the stand is moving under engine vibration or bumps it can make the ignition cut out. If there's an an intermittent problem in the wire harness you could see running symptoms as well.

If it were me I'd look at the diagrams/service manual and figure out what the operating conditions are for the circuits and switches, then start by testing them directly with an ohmmeter. In what position should the switch be ON/Continuous , and in what position should the switch be OFF/Non-Continuous. Tap or jiggle the switches slightly while testing to see if they are affected by vibration. If continuity or resistance changes in some way with the lever or stand held in one position while tapping lightly, the switch is bad.

If the switches test good, look at the connectors and trace the harnesses. A loose connector (at either end), loose or corroded pin/terminal (at either end) can cause intermittent continuity from vibration. A damaged harness may intermittently open or short due to vibration.

You'll find it!

[Ncdan]

I just had an issue with similar with what’s being described with your bike, on my 02 Stone and it ended up being the side stand switch getting out of adjustment over the 20 years it’s been functioning fine. This can literally occur from one ride to the next. After I finally found the issue, thanks to a member here on the forum, a simple adjustment of the switch plunger against the stop, problem solved.
Good luck with your issue.

[Dirk_S]

I don’t think this sounds like a kick stand issue. Qldbrad says that even with the side stand up, he can’t start the bike unless he’s in neutral. This is was exactly my issue. Didn’t matter if the side stand was up or down—it just wouldn’t start if I had it in gear.

Regardless, looking forward to seeing the (hopeful) resolution.

[Kev m]

I don’t think this sounds like a kick stand issue. Qldbrad says that even with the side stand up, he can’t start the bike unless he’s in neutral. This is was exactly my issue. Didn’t matter if the side stand was up or down—it just wouldn’t start if I had it in gear.

Regardless, looking forward to seeing the (hopeful) resolution.

But how would a disconnected clutch switch have an effect on performance  (cutting ignition or fuel)?

I guess I need to look at a wiring diagram to see how this one is set-up. What year/model are we talking about (EDIT - ahh V7II).

EDIT - that took a while




pic upload



EDIT AGAIN - ok, looks like all the starter circuit control logic on this runs through the ECU - so anything goes. Yeah the clutch switch circuit could have an odd effect on running conditions other than just preventing the starter relay from actuating.

[Qldbrad]

Hey everyone thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
When I first got the bike it popped and carried on on the decel, I would have to give the throttle a little blip on slowing down to avoid stalling. When I narrowed down the parasitic battery drain to the switch, I found it was jammed out like it would be if clutch lever was pulled in. As soon as I freed it up the bike ran totally different, no more popping or stalling. I have done a lot of googling and found another site, different bike but says it can go into an idle mode when clutch is pulled. I disconnected it again to check and it runs poorly again, reconnect and runs fine again. Dirk s, I do like your idea I will have a play and check the plunger is getting fully engaged. I really don’t like the thought of getting caught out on an intersection trying to find neutral. Thanks again

[tris]

Have you got after market levers on it?

I fitted span adjustable levers to my V9  (stubby fingers don't you know) and found that when fully pulled switch wouldn't change status.

I ended up shiming the switch out so that it did

The ECU  has a clutch position input I belive, but after the fix I can't perceive any change to the engine running except that it will start in gear now

[Qldbrad]

Have you got after market levers on it?

I fitted span adjustable levers to my V9  (stubby fingers don't you know) and found that when fully pulled switch wouldn't change status.

I ended up shiming the switch out so that it did

The ECU  has a clutch position input I belive, but after the fix I can't perceive any change to the engine running except that it will start in gear now

Hi tris, yes they are std levers. I’ve checked switch movement, seems to be fine. I’ve lubricated and cleaned, no different. Gone over side stand sensor, seems to be working fine. I did find a second hand switch on line and cheap enough, so I have ordered it and will see if that works, cheers

[Qldbrad]

OK, so just for the record, hopefully can help someone out in the future.
Received a clutch sensor in the mail today, a quick install and all is working now as it should.
Had me stumped, sidestand and neutral switch all working when tested. So now starts in gear with the sidestand up and clutch pulled and no rough popping and stalling on decel.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Reading through the posts in this thread, its a bit confusing when looking at the schematics
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2015_V7_II_Racer_ABS,_V7_II_Special_ABS,_V7_II_Stone_ABS.gif
The clutch switch 7 ties to the ECU pin 14 and the key switch 14 splits off several fuses its hard to keep this straight in your head.
I normally turn the motor off by deploying the stand 27 turning off the ECU input 19
To add to the confusion is the Pull-up resistor 21
Guzzi really owe us a description of the logic inside the ECU, its very simple logic but without the Key we are stumbling in the dark.
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2019_V7_III_E4_Anniversary_-_Racer_-_Special.gif

[tris]

OK, so just for the record, hopefully can help someone out in the future.
Received a clutch sensor in the mail today, a quick install and all is working now as it should.
Had me stumped, sidestand and neutral switch all working when tested. So now starts in gear with the sidestand up and clutch pulled and no rough popping and stalling on decel.

Thats good to hear, but for completeness.
With the switch on the bench, if you push the pin in do you get continuity across the 2 terminals?

[Kev m]

OK, so just for the record, hopefully can help someone out in the future.
Received a clutch sensor in the mail today, a quick install and all is working now as it should.
Had me stumped, sidestand and neutral switch all working when tested. So now starts in gear with the sidestand up and clutch pulled and no rough popping and stalling on decel.

 

Thanks for the info!

[Qldbrad]

Tris, on the new one yes, old one no, but if I bash it around a bit sometimes. Looks like it’s jamming on or off at different times

[Qldbrad]

Kiwi_roy, I don’t know anything about that, I’m a bricklayer. I amazed myself I sorted that one out.🤣 In the beginning I narrowed it down to the clutch sensor through a parasitic drain on the battery through one of the 5 amp fuses, pure luck really

[tris]

Tris, on the new one yes, old one no, but if I bash it around a bit sometimes. Looks like it’s jamming on or off at different times

That's good as you have certainly found the problem  ..... which is nice