Author Topic: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?  (Read 12846 times)

Offline kirby1923

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 508
  • '81 CX100
  • Location: SoCal (rural) near Tehachapi CA, Rogers AR when in the states other times GMT+1 thu +6
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2019, 04:17:40 PM »
That's a good example and a short timeframe.   But there are lots of counterexamples.

The 1911A1.   Still a standard design, 108 years old.    Boeing B52, in service for 60 years now, probably be 100 before the last ones are grounded.   C130 Herk, still in production since 1954.   Beechcraft Bonanza, still in production since 1945.

The 1915 Cadillac.   Rubber tires, electric start, gasoline engine, pistons, crankshaft, differential, gear transmission, front wheel steering; essentially the same as a car today, 104 years later.

Until and unless someone comes up with a breakthrough like your example, that brings the energy density of 7 pounds of battery to somewhere near that of a gallon of gasoline, and doesn't have to rape the world for lithium, I think we'll be using IC for a while.

Lannis




A while back I helped an old friend develop an electric motor powered aircraft. He was a principal in the "Quickie: aircraft corp. which was a single place composite machine that used a 30 hp onan flat head generator engine for its power plant. It was quite successful with that engine.

Long story short, we had a 25 hp electric motor and our problem was to find a battery solution...ugh.

Ended up wit Li batteries with expectable weight with about 30 min range..not much but this was for a contest that offered a big prize so good enough.

It flew pretty well.

The problem with the electric powered vehicle  is power density of the battery. We needed the density of the modern smart phone battery but in a much larger output..Ha!

You can go (and I did) on the internet an find many companies that claim they have discovered to way to do this but when you contact them all they have is an idea and want you to invest.

Bottom line is they are up against a solid wall at this time and nobody has figured a way to accomplish such high densities in a large enough output to power vehicles w/o being very large, heavy, and not quick to charge to be useful in a practical way.

Right now its a pipe dream w/no light at the end of the tunnel.

The Navy needs to capture one of those UFO' and beat/bargain it out w/ them.

I'm sure they? are laughing at us!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 04:20:31 PM by kirby1923 »
'81 CX100


A calm and modest life brings more happiness than the constant pursuit of success combined with constant restlessness.. Einstein,A

Offline LowRyter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 16685
  • Location: Edmond OK
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2019, 04:35:24 PM »
True, but cars and trucks were also better/cheaper/faster/lower maintenance than horses.  So far, over the past 50 years, electric has not been able to provide those benefits over internal combustion.

For 50-years, now, proponents of electric autos have been trying.  So far, electric has only been able to make very small inroads into auto/moto/truck markets.   The electric people will have to provide machines that are better/cheaper/faster in order to provide the kind of sea change that was provided when autos replaced horses in the early 20th Century.

How is Honda doing in the electric car and motorcycle business?

Michael, we're just on the bottom of the learning curve for EV.  I would imagine that we're a couple of generations of development away from hitting critical mass but I think it's inevitable.  And I'll bet those generations might happen pretty quickly.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 04:38:52 PM by LowRyter »
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24009
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2019, 10:03:16 PM »
Michael, we're just on the bottom of the learning curve for EV.  I would imagine that we're a couple of generations of development away from hitting critical mass but I think it's inevitable.  And I'll bet those generations might happen pretty quickly.

People have been saying that since the 1973 Arab Oil Embargo...
Michael T.
Aux Arcs de Akansea
2004 California EV Touring II
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline LowRyter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 16685
  • Location: Edmond OK
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2019, 10:08:20 PM »
People have been saying that since the 1973 Arab Oil Embargo...

Well, it looks like those people are proving to be right. 
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Wildguzzi.com

Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2019, 10:08:20 PM »

Offline Tusayan

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1788
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2019, 11:09:32 PM »
A while back I helped an old friend develop an electric motor powered aircraft. He was a principal in the Quickie Aircraft Corp. which was a single place composite machine that used a 30 hp onan flat head generator engine for its power plant. It was quite successful with that engine.

Long story short, we had a 25 hp electric motor and our problem was to find a battery solution...ugh.

Ended up with Li batteries with expectable weight with about 30 min range..not much but this was for a contest that offered a big prize so good enough.

You can go (and I did) on the internet an find many companies that claim they have discovered to way to do this but when you contact them all they have is an idea and want you to invest.

The Pipistrel Electro trainer is in production and does about an hour training mission plus reserve.  Not a practical machine but good enough to sell to a few European flight schools who,have limited options. It'd have a lot more endurance if sold as a single seater with an addional 180 lb of batteries.

https://www.pipistrel-usa.com/alpha-electro/

The original Quickie Onan engine was 18 HP if I recall correctly and a very heavy industrial generator design...  which one would think might set the stage for installing heavy batteries.  I'm guessing the payload was low originally and that limits the battery weight regardless.  It certainly didn't need a lot of heavy fuel in its original configuration which sort of highlights the issue with electric aircraft propulsion - it's a weak solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

Offline kirby1923

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 508
  • '81 CX100
  • Location: SoCal (rural) near Tehachapi CA, Rogers AR when in the states other times GMT+1 thu +6
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2019, 12:22:17 AM »
The whole exercise was for a high$$ prize and had only 2 companies entered  The original onan installation was indeed an 18 hp generator power plant and many of the Quickies did fly on that one, but it was developed to almost 30 hp eventually w/ one or two turbo charged.

Our electric Quickie was largely carbon fiber and considerably lighter with different flight controls and much smaller wheels than the original. It now sits in my hanger and will most likely end up in a museum.

It flew good.

Power densities are a long way from practical flight purposes. Electric vehicles  are sort of a novelty at this point, good for urban/short range travel and that's about it. After experimenting with some high amp batteries I believe that when they get to the power densities for practical(high) use, they will be dangerous work on or around without special training.

From what I have seen (and I try to keep up thru the SAE), we are not very close to what we need.

You have ask yourself .?What makes electric vehicles so desirable? With IC engines approaching almost 0  emissions what do they offer other than that.

The chances of getting battery power and weight to match the energy and size of 231 cubic inches of gasoline is not likely to happen in my lifetime.

The infrastructure to support the charging requirements is and support of electrics is woefully thin at this point.

Like I said a novelty.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 08:00:46 AM by kirby1923 »
'81 CX100


A calm and modest life brings more happiness than the constant pursuit of success combined with constant restlessness.. Einstein,A

Online twowheeladdict

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6149
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2019, 05:40:02 AM »
Check this out.  3 minutes in.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhnjMdzGusc

Electric vehicles is nothing new. 
2022 Moto Guzzi V85TT Guardia D'onore
2018 V7 III Carbon Dark #0009 of 1921
2018 Road Glide Special
2021 Kawasaki KLX300SM
2017 Suzuki Van Van 200
2009 Harley Davidson Softail Custom

Online chuck peterson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5209
  • Location: New Haven CT
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2019, 07:22:18 AM »
A second shot at a curmudgeonly old geezer opinion...

To me the saturated car and bike market is a symptom of the saturated ROADs problem, admittedly in the metro areas...

You're not gonna wanna ride, or drive, much of anything in the increasingly clogged hi ways, defying death and 18 wheelers. The casual rider of 2-5 k a year is deciding not too

Electric or IC, don't matter to me..
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 07:23:05 AM by chuck peterson »
"I'd like to thank all my friends who have kept my Guzzi's going, but mostly...TOMB."
150k on Verts
750 Nevada
400f
R5 Yammie
BV250
4x 1976 Moto Demm Smily,, now 5, oops now 6, oops now 7
1980 SP1000 in little bits and pieces

Online larrys

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1425
  • Location: SE CT
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2019, 07:38:15 AM »
Maybe I can find the Ducati Monster I've always wanted for cheap money...
Larry
'13 Monster 1100 EVO
'95 Cal 1100
'68 Bonneville

MGNOC 7248

Offline yackee

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2019, 07:59:44 AM »
I was in Paris for work a couple of weeks ago and saw the electric future, at least in cities. It wasn't those obnoxious electric Razor scooters clogging the sidewalks (though they are everywhere, and the French madly ride them at full speed on the sidewalks, weaving around startled pedestrians); the future was electric Vespa-style sit-on scooters. A surprising number of them were circulating around the Place St. Michel. Eerily quiet, but seemingly quite capable for city traffic. I think that an electric Vespa makes a ton of sense for that kind of commute, a lot more sense than trying to make an electric motorcycle capable of touring. Given pollution concerns I think that big cities like Paris are likely to ban combustion in central areas sooner rather than later. During my short visit, combustion-engine vehicles older than a decade were temporarily banned from operation in the city (the heat wave had worsened particulates in the air).

The weirdest electric vehicle I saw was an electric sidewalk-sweeper. It was like a 1/3-size zamboni. It sprayed and sucked the sidewalk in front of me while I ate a croissant.

Offline alanp

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1737
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2019, 09:29:42 AM »
The electric people will have to provide machines that are better/cheaper/faster in order to provide the kind of sea change that was provided when autos replaced horses in the early 20th Century.

They have accomplished better and faster, and are working on cheaper.   
Niwot, Colorado
'08 1200 Sport - Black
'16 V7II Stone - Black
Previous Guzzis
'07 Griso, '07 Norge, '03 California SS, '02 California SS, '02 V11 Lemans,  '83 Lemans III, '77 Lemans

Offline kirby1923

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 508
  • '81 CX100
  • Location: SoCal (rural) near Tehachapi CA, Rogers AR when in the states other times GMT+1 thu +6
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2019, 10:50:41 AM »
Yeah, but when they find out that its going to take "Dilithium" to make it work..cheaper is out of reach.

Do you think that the electric car driver feels pretty good of him/her self that they are doing their part saving the planet when they pull up beside a 1 ton duly at a traffic light?

:-)
'81 CX100


A calm and modest life brings more happiness than the constant pursuit of success combined with constant restlessness.. Einstein,A

Offline Testarossa

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3309
    • Skiing History
  • Location: Paonia, Colorado
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2019, 10:54:36 AM »
Quote
I was in Paris for work a couple of weeks ago and saw the electric future, at least in cities. It wasn't those obnoxious electric Razor scooters clogging the sidewalks (though they are everywhere, and the French madly ride them at full speed on the sidewalks, weaving around startled pedestrians); the future was electric Vespa-style sit-on scooters. A surprising number of them were circulating around the Place St. Michel. Eerily quiet, but seemingly quite capable for city traffic. I think that an electric Vespa makes a ton of sense for that kind of commute, a lot more sense than trying to make an electric motorcycle capable of touring. Given pollution concerns I think that big cities like Paris are likely to ban combustion in central areas sooner rather than later.

This. It's not the future, it's now, especially in developing nations. Cheap, bulletproof commuter transport that doesn't spew NOx into urban centers. See for instance https://medium.com/@david_23633/electric-scooters-take-to-the-streets-of-havana-1f2e6d22be07   This is an urban phenomenon only but it's big now and will be huge within five years. Small island nations with short road systems and imported oil will also go big for electric bikes, especially as they figure out wind, solar and tidal electric generation and quit burning fuel oil for electricity.

We're also likely to see plug-in hybrids take over stop-and-go delivery fleets. See https://www.pressroom.ups.com/pressroom/ContentDetailsViewer.page?ConceptType=PressReleases&id=1519225541368-230  Battery weight is a much less critical issue for trucks than cars.

BTW one of the things killed off by automobiles in North America was electric interurban railroads. Before WWI the US had more than 15,000 miles of light rail mostly in the Midwest and California. They ran on catenary wires-- an old technology that could be revived for, say, medium-haul trucking.  https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/siemens-sees-a-future-for-electric-trucks-powered-by-overhead-lines#gs.nxhm7x

70 Triumph TR6R, 74 850T, 74 Yamaha TA125, 89 Mille GT, 99 F650, 2013 Yamaha XT250
Gone: 59 Piper Comanche 250, 69 Harley/Aermacchi 350SS, 71 Honda CB500/4, 74 Laverda 750 SF2, 91 Suzuki VX800, 50cc two-stroke scoot, 83 XR350R

Offline kirby1923

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 508
  • '81 CX100
  • Location: SoCal (rural) near Tehachapi CA, Rogers AR when in the states other times GMT+1 thu +6
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2019, 11:10:23 AM »
I'm in Paris now and there are quite a few electric devices with wheels buzzing about in town, but then scooters have always been popular here and in other big European cities.

Europe has a different culture than the US and most French families typically only have one auto and maybe a couple of scooters and a bicycle or two.

In the States every thing far flung and most families have more than one auto and no scooters or bicycles(get killed in the states one of those). And they are used to air conditioned  everything.

A lot of compromises have to be made to go electric in the States. You folks that are set on saving the planet from evil fossil fuel (or even synthetic fuel) will find a way to justify electric vehicles.

After all its a dollar down and a dollar a month in the states and you can have what ever ride suits you.

Wonder how well a $35K electric will depreciate?( not to mention a $65K one)

Losing interest in this, as I don't really have a dog in this fight, but amusing just the same.

:-)



« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 11:13:59 AM by kirby1923 »
'81 CX100


A calm and modest life brings more happiness than the constant pursuit of success combined with constant restlessness.. Einstein,A

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24009
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2019, 11:13:49 AM »

Wonder how well a $35K electric will depreciate?( not to mention a $65K one)

Yeah. With the way technology progresses, I wonder if they'll be like computers, digital cameras, and smartphones.  Basically worthless when the "new and improved" model comes out each year.
Michael T.
Aux Arcs de Akansea
2004 California EV Touring II
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Lannis

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 26507
  • Location: Central Virginia
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2019, 11:17:12 AM »
Well, it looks like those people are proving to be right.

A hundred and twenty years ago electrics were actually a practical alternative compared with IC and steam.

Forty-six years ago in 1973 people were predicting "any day now" for practical, gas-engine-replacing electric cars.  That went along, by the way, with the "Real Science", "You'd Better Believe This", "Go to Jail If You Deny It", known proven fact that the world would be out of petroleum by 1995.   As opposed to us having twice the known reserves now that we had then.

They're still not here, and until the energy density breakthrough is made, they won't be.    Electric scooters in Havana or downtown Paris have nothing zero nada zilch bupkis to do with driving in the USA, Russia, Brazil, etc etc.  I'm all for all the electric trains to replace IC trucks that we can get our hands on, but that's an industrial issue, not a personal one.

So if you get 50 years to be "right" about something, that's a pretty low bar.

Lannis
"Hard pounding, this, gentlemen; let's see who pounds the longest".

Offline LowRyter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 16685
  • Location: Edmond OK
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2019, 11:36:41 AM »
Yeah, but when they find out that its going to take "Dilithium" to make it work..cheaper is out of reach.

Do you think that the electric car driver feels pretty good of him/her self that they are doing their part saving the planet when they pull up beside a 1 ton duly at a traffic light?

:-)

yeah
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline Motormike

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1349
  • Location: Tennessee
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2019, 02:36:12 PM »
A lot of people say we don't have to worry about the future of ICE because electric vehicles aren't yet ready for prime time.  Unfortunately, they overlook the PC police, enviro hand-ringers and others with a political ax to grind.  Just because something isn't ready doesn't mean it won't be jammed down our throats. 
Here's an article about all the various euro countries and cities that are trying to out-do each other in the race to be "green." 

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/gasoline-vehicle-bans-coming-and-motorcycling-isnt-ready?

Offline bad Chad

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 9551
  • Location: Central Il
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2019, 03:10:29 PM »
Electric vehicle sales were up 81% in 2018 over 2017.   360,000 units sold.
2007 Breva 1100  Red Arrow (and faster than yours!)
2016 CSC 250TT Zongshen
2017 V9 Roamer

Offline Tusayan

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1788
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2019, 09:06:22 PM »
Electric vehicle sales were up 81% in 2018 over 2017.   360,000 units sold.

That's an increase from 1% to 2% of the total market of 17.27 million vehicles sold in the US.  In other words, only 25 times more sales and electric will have half the US market.

Online bacongrease

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 381
  • Location: Iowa
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2019, 11:49:11 AM »
Bike Dealers.....they no longer have new bikes out front.  Side by sides, wave runners, mowers.  Tractors, fork lifts, outboard motors, etc..  Hell,Harley has Mahindra Razors out front.  But they are the only ones that have new bikes out front.

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 30431
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2019, 12:06:35 PM »
Bike Dealers.....they no longer have new bikes out front.  Side by sides, wave runners, mowers.  Tractors, fork lifts, outboard motors, etc..  Hell,Harley has Mahindra Razors out front.  But they are the only ones that have new bikes out front.

I guess that depends on where you are located.

I can think of a half-dozen Harley dealers around here who are still Harley only (at least at that location), and most of which roll bikes out front into the lot every day.

Yeah, a bunch of the all brands around here have side-by-sides/ATVs.

We don't get a lot of marine to motorcycle crossover - except maybe jet skis in some of the all brands.

Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

Offline LowRyter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 16685
  • Location: Edmond OK
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2019, 01:05:10 PM »
We're hardly having EVs "crammed down our throats".  EV charging ports aren't on every corner like gas stations.  And again, we're still a couple of generations away from a practical EV with the range and recharge for "the best all around" vehicle.   But it seems inevitable with technology and it's coming on fast.

Consider that electric generation is becoming more sustainable and cleaner, with the growth of wind and solar, cheaper natural gas and the phase out of coal.  Of course the petro fuel companies have gotten a free ride since there has been no carbon tax, basically dumping carbon into the air like it's a garbage dump.  Cost vs cost, we might have gotten EVs and green electricity much sooner.

It certainly makes sense to go electric in urban areas and Europe looks to be stepping up.  One interesting note, I was recently in Northern Europe (NE and GE) and "prestige car" was a Tesla.  When was the last time an American car a status symbol?
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline CanBike

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • Location: Ontario
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2019, 04:35:45 PM »
Maybe I can find the Ducati Monster I've always wanted for cheap money...
Larry

I got tired of working on old airheads (and a short lived 850T) and bought a 2006 S2R for very little money. It's an amazing motorcycle for what I paid. Loads of character, and it turns heads every time I ride it. I put bar risers on it, and think I might even be able to do some long-weekend tours. I did the valve check myself--much easier than I imagined.

Offline Tusayan

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1788
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2019, 10:20:24 PM »
Of course the petro fuel companies have gotten a free ride since there has been no carbon tax, basically dumping carbon into the air like it's a garbage dump.  Cost vs cost, we might have gotten EVs and green electricity much sooner.

In many markets gasoline is taxed at 200%, meaning 2/3 of the pump price is tax.  Not unlike cigarettes.  In no market does electricity used for cars pay its 'fair share' of tax revenues in comparison, whether the electricity is sourced from fossil fuels like most of it or from renewables like hydroelectric etc.  One of the issues with EVs is that this lack of tax revenue will likely lead to GPS based mileage tax so that electricity used for transport is in effect taxed like gasoline or Diesel.

It certainly makes sense to go electric in urban areas and Europe looks to be stepping up.  One interesting note, I was recently in Northern Europe (NE and GE) and "prestige car" was a Tesla.  When was the last time an American car a status symbol?

Who do you think sells more status symbols in China, BMW or Buick?   Buick is a prestige brand there, selling 1,000,000 cars a year to the Chinese market with the average buyer in their early 30s and very status conscious.  (BMW sells into the same Chinese market segment but at less than half the sales volume)

Europeans interest in EVs is on an individual level mainly motivated by avoidance of gasoline or Diesel fuel tax.  In areas where EVs are really catching on that avoidance situation is being encouraged (for now) because hydroelectric and nuclear can produce the power domestically.  I will not get into the motivation there given respect for the site prohibition on politics, but I'm sure it is obvious to anybody who wants to think about it.  In the end, the tax revenue will be restored regardless.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 11:11:31 PM by Tusayan »

Offline Tusayan

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1788
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2019, 10:24:02 PM »
I got tired of working on old airheads (and a short lived 850T) and bought a 2006 S2R for very little money. It's an amazing motorcycle for what I paid. Loads of character, and it turns heads every time I ride it. I put bar risers on it, and think I might even be able to do some long-weekend tours. I did the valve check myself--much easier than I imagined.

Older Italian bikes are the best deal on the market right now, especially those old enough and simple enough to be sustainable for years to come.  To me that means the best value is for bikes a little older than 2006 but OTOH Ducati and Guzzi were a little slower than BMW to jump on the disposable bike trend.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 10:50:44 PM by Tusayan »

Offline Sheepdog

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5575
  • 2007 Moto Guzzi California Vintage
  • Location: Waldheim, Louisiana. USA
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2019, 10:02:45 AM »
I知 not sure batteries are the answer, yet. I expect a better option would be hybrids that could take power from an electrified toll road, but still have some sort of fuel-burner for unelectrified access roads. That way, traffic speed and the interval of vehicles could be regulated in highly used or other dangerous areas. Power transmission is a bigger problem, as wires waste a great deal of power the further they stretch out. I知 guessing the emergence of cold fusion will change things in a big way. One of the big government contractors has already claimed that a truck-portable cold fusion generator is on the horizon that can power a small town. Also, industry has already transitioned away from piston powered engines and switched to turbines. Maintenance is much easier and the fuel is safer than gasoline.

The good news as far as I知 concerned is that motorcycles will be available used for a song.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." John C. Maxwell

Offline s1120

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2161
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2019, 10:14:29 AM »
I知 not sure batteries are the answer, yet. I expect a better option would be hybrids that could take power from an electrified toll road, but still have some sort of fuel-burner for unelectrified access roads. That way, traffic speed and the interval of vehicles could be regulated in highly used or other dangerous areas. Power transmission is a bigger problem, as wires waste a great deal of power the further they stretch out. I知 guessing the emergence of cold fusion will change things in a big way. One of the big government contractors has already claimed that a truck-portable cold fusion generator is on the horizon that can power a small town. Also, industry has already transitioned away from piston powered engines and switched to turbines. Maintenance is much easier and the fuel is safer than gasoline.

The good news as far as I知 concerned is that motorcycles will be available used for a song.

I agree Hybrid is the answer. at least till new tech comes along..  I think we are doing it wrong though. The newer plug in hybrids are a turn in the right direction I believe though..  Mostly electric, with just a small gas engine for recharging and cold weather heat needs. That will give the usefull range we need, but still allow for plug in EV power for short runs.

Paul B

Offline Sheepdog

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5575
  • 2007 Moto Guzzi California Vintage
  • Location: Waldheim, Louisiana. USA
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2019, 10:38:00 AM »
I agree Hybrid is the answer. at least till new tech comes along..  I think we are doing it wrong though. The newer plug in hybrids are a turn in the right direction I believe though..  Mostly electric, with just a small gas engine for recharging and cold weather heat needs. That will give the usefull range we need, but still allow for plug in EV power for short runs.

Better!
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." John C. Maxwell

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24009
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: A saturated motorcycle market... what's on the horizon?
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2019, 01:10:14 PM »
I agree Hybrid is the answer. at least till new tech comes along..  I think we are doing it wrong though. The newer plug in hybrids are a turn in the right direction I believe though..  Mostly electric, with just a small gas engine for recharging and cold weather heat needs. That will give the usefull range we need, but still allow for plug in EV power for short runs.

But what about performance?  I'm liking the 2020 Lincoln Aviator plug-in hybrid.  450 bhp, 600 lb/ft torque, and lots of combined range!

 :evil:
Michael T.
Aux Arcs de Akansea
2004 California EV Touring II
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

 

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here