How to up-armor a V7?

[oldbike54]

My RX for this situation.  Smaller (lower to the ground) light beater bike like a Honda Rebel, Buell blast, or Kawi.  Repeat MSF course.  Practice, practice, practice.  Short rides in controlled environments(ie.  not to technical with minimal traffic).  But before any of this, a good honest heart to heart is she doing this because she really wants to ride or is it more because you want her to ride???
My 2 cents.
gian4
PS I agree with Dusty about dirt riding but if she won't then my above suggestion from my experience should work for her if she really wants to learn and really enjoys riding.

 Yes , dirt experience isn't the only way , just the easiest and quickest .



 The real purpose of this thread is to help El Pescador's wife become a confident competent MC rider , if she really desires .


  Dusty

[Jurgen]

Respectful yes , because motorbikes are my life .

 If it took your lovely wife a year to approach a motorcycle after a driveway tipover , that is more of an issue than how much protection the bike needs . Addressing this is the more important problem .

 So... how do we handle this . well , a beater dirtbike and hours riding in the dirt until your wife attains some level of skill and confidence . No traffic , reduced chances of causing her or the bike harm , and skills learned in the dirt are invaluable .

  Dusty

Dusty has it right.  And that's how they do it in Europe, many hours to get used to riding on small bikes, then traffic etc.  Then bigger bikes.   Jurgen
 

[sturgeon]

I guess I should've added that even after 50 years of riding, I still take instruction every couple of years. Occasionally on a track, but most often at a dirk bike school. It still helps. I never assume that I know everything, or that it's too late to learn new stuff. I find it invaluable to have a competent teacher observe me, and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Even if you never ride dirt bikes for fun, learning how a bike slides, front wheel as well as rear, and how to recover from that, does wonders for your riding skills. Practise sliding around enough and it becomes second nature so that you react instinctively when you hit that small unexpected patch of gravel or sand in a corner on a paved road, or an unexpected obstacle like something fallen on the road.

I have no idea of the actual circumstances the OP's wife's get-off in the driveway, but I wonder if she just slid a wheel and didn't know how to react, other than to grab a handful of brake. Despite her apparent lack of interest in dirt bike riding, I might suggest trying another approach. Rather than simply "get a dirt bike and have her ride it until she's comfortable", perhaps try a family outing to a good school, with both partners taking the same training. Ya just never know, maybe both will learn something new 

[Triple Jim]

But before any of this, a good honest heart to heart is she doing this because she really wants to ride or is it more because you want her to ride?

This may be the most important suggestion so far.

[Guzzistajohn]

There is no substitute for knowing and having control of your machine, I think we will all agree. There is no faster way of learning the controls than practice, practice, practice. I'd rather see my friends and family practice in a field or on a trail than on pavement with moving cars. Just makes sense.

[Rough Edge racing]

 My opinion is practice for street riding needs to be done on pavement... How many here can slam on the front brake and hold the fine line between locking up and maximum braking traction from 75 mph?? Do you practice this often because it can and will save your life. How about avoidance maneuvers and counter steering ? How how recovery when you go into a corner and the back wheel steps sharply out on loose stone? Got time to grab the throttle and spin the rear tire on a 550 pound street bike so it doesn't high side?

[SeanF]

I second the recommendations to:
(1) Re-take the MSF basic course. They might even offer a shortened "Intro" course that focuses on control foundations (friction zone, smooth application of brakes & throttle, etc).
(2) Grab a used Rebel, Nighthawk, TW200, XT225, or other standard or dirt bike in the 200cc range. They are very forgiving of being dropped. We use primarily Rebels and Nighthawks at our training facility and they are quite durable.

[oldbike54]

My opinion is practice for street riding needs to be done on pavement... How many here can slam on the front brake and hold the fine line between locking up and maximum braking traction from 75 mph?? Do you practice this often because it can and will save your life. How about avoidance maneuvers and counter steering ? How how recovery when you go into a corner and the back wheel steps sharply out on loose stone? Got time to grab the throttle and spin the rear tire on a 550 pound street bike so it doesn't high side?

 Sigh  All of those skills are best developed in the dirt , once again , there is a reason why almost every fast pavement racer trains in the dirt .

  Dusty

[rocker59]

http://www.americansupercamp.com/

[Guzzistajohn]

http://www.americansupercamp.com/

You really think those guys know shit from shinola? 

[canuguzzi]

Well, OK, there is a group of motorcyclists who never drop their bikes, the ones who never ride them.  Nice and safe in the garage.

And maybe one more group, those with poor memories.

There is more than a group, there are many. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean no one else can. There is always the group who says it is just a matter of when, not if. A defeatist attitude and maybe the refusal to admit that there are much better riders than yourself.

I've fallen because of a collision but would not say it will happen to every rider because it doesn't have to and it won't.

The OPs wife fell. It wasn't and isn't a rite if passage and he should be commended for trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. Just because she's fallen once doesn't mean it has to happen again. 

[oldbike54]

There is more than a group, there are many. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean no one else can. There is always the group who says it is just a matter of when, not if. A defeatist attitude and maybe the refusal to admit that there are much better riders than yourself.

I've fallen because of a collision but would not say it will happen to every rider because it doesn't have to and it won't.

The OPs wife fell. It wasn't and isn't a rite if passage and he should be commended for trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. Just because she's fallen once doesn't mean it has to happen again.

 Sigh . Anyone who thinks it can't happen to them because they are such a superior rider is fooling themselves .

  Dusty

[canuguzzi]

 Sigh . Anyone who thinks it can't happen to them because they are such a superior rider is fooling themselves .

  Dusty

Just like anyone who thinks because it happened to them it must happen to everyone else. If you are just falling off your bike or just dropping it without someone hitting you or causing you to fall, then it is you that are at fault and no, it doesn't happen to every one, just the ones that got careless or need better riding skills.

Plenty of people ride motorcycles and don't fall or drop them, maybe they know something you don't.

Motorcycles don't fall over by themselves, you fall over and take the bike with you or forget to do something. Don't blame the bike, it doesn't do anything by itself.

[oldbike54]

Just like anyone who thinks because it happened to them it must happen to everyone else. If you are just falling off your bike or just dropping it without someone hitting you or causing you to fall, then it is you that are at fault and no, it doesn't happen to every one, just the ones that got careless or need better riding skills.

Plenty of people ride motorcycles and don't fall or drop them, maybe they know something you don't.

Motorcycles don't fall over by themselves, you fall over and take the bike with you or forget to do something. Don't blame the bike, it doesn't do anything by itself.

 I forget  you California boys have special powers  Actually I don't fall over , and in 400K miles haven't had an accident , but am willing to concede that you are a superior rider .
  However , seriously doubt if you are better than Dane Westby or my buddy Steve Martin who was a several times local MX champion , and they both "tipped over" .

  Dusty

[sib]

Just like anyone who thinks because it happened to them it must happen to everyone else. If you are just falling off your bike or just dropping it without someone hitting you or causing you to fall, then it is you that are at fault and no, it doesn't happen to every one, just the ones that got careless or need better riding skills.

Plenty of people ride motorcycles and don't fall or drop them, maybe they know something you don't.

Motorcycles don't fall over by themselves, you fall over and take the bike with you or forget to do something. Don't blame the bike, it doesn't do anything by itself.

I sincerely hope you never ever drop it.  However, your physics is wrong.  Motorcycles DO fall over all by themselves.  In fact, the rider has to constantly, ACTIVELY do something to prevent the bike from falling over, particularly at low speed.  It's great that you were apparently born with great riding skills.  Me, not so much.  I was a klutz when I began riding, at age 71 (no excuse).  I haven't dropped my bike in the last 12,000 miles or so, but during the first few thousand, yes, I did go down a few times.  I'm glad my bike had a crash bar and hard-sided luggage.  Perhaps the OP's wife also is in the learning curve, and her bike can use the "armor" he asked about.

[oldbike54]

I sincerely hope you never ever drop it.  However, your physics is wrong.  Motorcycles DO fall over all by themselves.  In fact, the rider has to constantly, ACTIVELY do something to prevent the bike from falling over, particularly at low speed.  It's great that you were apparently born with great riding skills.  Me, not so much.  I was a klutz when I began riding, at age 71 (no excuse).  I haven't dropped my bike in the last 12,000 miles or so, but during the first few thousand, yes, I did go down a few times.  I'm glad my bike had a crash bar and hard-sided luggage.  Perhaps the OP's wife also is in the learning curve, and her bike can use the "armor" he asked about.

 Sib , "When I began riding , at age 71" . That is so cool 

  Dusty

[tiger_one]

Reminds me when I tried to learn to ski at 38.  My then girl friend (who was a great skier) wanted me to start out on the bunny slope then jump to the greens and blues.  My first day I spent a lot time picking myself up after falls that I had no idea was coming!  Lucky the snow wasn't hard packed and I learned a lot in those 3 days, but had MANY falls.

I learned bikes on the dirt mostly, the bikes are lighter, tires are better for the terrain, plus you can go anywhere almost.  Well, don't have to stay in a little lane or watch out for cars/trucks/dog/lights!  You can practice starting and stopping in a field of pretty small size.

My wife decided to start riding to my surprise and took the MSF, dropped their bike several times over 3 days, mostly the panic stop procedure.  She still has some trouble with sudden quick stops.

[Rough Edge racing]

Sigh  All of those skills are best developed in the dirt , once again , there is a reason why almost every fast pavement racer trains in the dirt .

  Dusty

 They start in dirt because it's the most convenient racing. And there's no age limit so to speak......

[oldbike54]

They start in dirt because it's the most convenient racing. And there's no age limit so to speak......

 OK , so why do the continue training in the dirt after becoming champions ?

  Dusty

[canuguzzi]

I forget  you California boys have special powers  Actually I don't fall over , and in 400K miles haven't had an accident , but am willing to concede that you are a superior rider .
  However , seriously doubt if you are better than Dane Westby or my buddy Steve Martin who was a several times local MX champion , and they both "tipped over" .

  Dusty

For crying out loud, you've ridden 400k miles without falling but everyone else must fall?

The point was that not everyone has to fall, there is no rites of passage that falling makes you a motorcyclist. Many people can and do ride their entire lives that involve motorcycles and do jot fall and it has nothing to do with California, it has to do with having the skills not to fall outside of something beyond your control. Falling because you didn't do something right means it was preventable.

Not everyone falls. Must be hard to comprehend I know.

[rocker59]

[oldbike54]

For crying out loud, you've ridden 400k miles without falling but everyone else must fall?

The point was that not everyone has to fall, there is no rites of passage that falling makes you a motorcyclist. Many people can and do ride their entire lives that involve motorcycles and do jot fall and it has nothing to do with California, it has to do with having the skills not to fall outside of something beyond your control. Falling because you didn't do something right means it was preventable.

Not everyone falls. Must be hard to comprehend I know.

 When did I say everyone must fall , or that I am immune . You are the one who is claiming superior skills and just can't possibly fall down  I was merely using examples of very talented riders that have fallen , if you are a better rider than these boys , well , great . Look , the issue at hand isn't whether or not it can happen , but how to deal with the after effects and how to minimize the chances of it occurring again , not what fabulous MC riders you or I are, and some time in the dirt is very beneficial , whether you agree or not .

  Dusty

[ohiorider]

Ummmm ..... think you have lost your OP.  But dirt riding is an interesting topic/

[SmithSwede]

Don't want a big debate.   So here's my two cents.

Listen to Dusty.  He's got a lot of experience and is a straight shooter. 

Consider what one of the earlier posters said.  Get her a cheap, used, beat up Kawasaki Ninja 250.  These are dirt cheap, and absolutely unbelievable terrific bikes.  The best value for your motorcycle  dollar. Heck, after my V7 Stone, my 2012 two fiddy is about my all time favorite bike, and I've been riding 35 years on I don't know how many bikes.

She can surely flat foot the 250.  No tears if she drops a $1500 250 multiple times.  And she can play on dirt, fire trails, etc

And that freaking 250 will teach her things no other bike will, provided she listens.   Again, I've been around the block, but I *still* learn useful stuff riding my two-fiddy.

And yes.  A Ninja 250 will do anything and go anywhere. I routinely take mine into Dallas high speed traffic at 80 mph+.   I've taken 1,500 mile road trips on it, and would do it again tomorrow. The secret is to not care that you are revving it all the time.  It likes that!   Spend hours and hours on interstate at 10,000 rpm and you will gain a new perspective about engines. And don't listen to anyone who bad mouths a Ninja 250.  The truly knowledgabe motorcyclist will "get" and respect a 250.   The others?   Don't worry about what they think.

[toolittletime]

For crying out loud, you've ridden 400k miles without falling but everyone else must fall?

The point was that not everyone has to fall, there is no rites of passage that falling makes you a motorcyclist. Many people can and do ride their entire lives that involve motorcycles and do jot fall and it has nothing to do with California, it has to do with having the skills not to fall outside of something beyond your control. Falling because you didn't do something right means it was preventable.

Not everyone falls. Must be hard to comprehend I know.

Have to step in and side with Norge Pilot here, this is not something that is unique to California. You can look in my signature line and bet that I see my share of falls almost every weekend. Dirt riding is great if you have the opportunity, but not everyone has. Having said that........nothing .....nothing beats a true desire to become one with your machine.
Tim

[Triple Jim]

And yes.  A Ninja 250 will do anything and go anywhere.

When I first got the little Ninja insured and licensed, I took it for out for about 30 or 40 miles.  When I got home, I said that if it were the only motorcycle I could own for the rest of my life, I'd still be very happy riding.  I bought it for my daughter to ride, and I've put twice as many miles on it as she has.

One neat feature is that 1st gear is so low that you can idle it in 1st and a person can walk beside you!

[oldbike54]

Have to step in and side with Norge Pilot here, this is not something that is unique to California. You can look in my signature line and bet that I see my share of falls almost every weekend. Dirt riding is great if you have the opportunity, but not everyone has. Having said that........nothing .....nothing beats a true desire to become one with your machine.
Tim

 The California comment was meant to be humorous  Maybe  So , how are you differing from the advice most have given so far ?

 

Don't want a big debate.   So here's my two cents.

Listen to Dusty.  He's got a lot of experience and is a straight shooter. 

Consider what one of the earlier posters said.  Get her a cheap, used, beat up Kawasaki Ninja 250.  These are dirt cheap, and absolutely unbelievable terrific bikes.  The best value for your motorcycle  dollar. Heck, after my V7 Stone, my 2012 two fiddy is about my all time favorite bike, and I've been riding 35 years on I don't know how many bikes.

She can surely flat foot the 250.  No tears if she drops a $1500 250 multiple times.  And she can play on dirt, fire trails, etc

And that freaking 250 will teach her things no other bike will, provided she listens.   Again, I've been around the block, but I *still* learn useful stuff riding my two-fiddy.

And yes.  A Ninja 250 will do anything and go anywhere. I routinely take mine into Dallas high speed traffic at 80 mph+.   I've taken 1,500 mile road trips on it, and would do it again tomorrow. The secret is to not care that you are revving it all the time.  It likes that!   Spend hours and hours on interstate at 10,000 rpm and you will gain a new perspective about engines. And don't listen to anyone who bad mouths a Ninja 250.  The truly knowledgabe motorcyclist will "get" and respect a 250.   The others?   Don't worry about what they think.

 Aww hell , now I am blushing  This isn't about me , none of what I've said is all that original , just collected wisdom from a lifetime of MCling and listening to riders much more knowledgeable than me . Agree , when it comes to learning street skills , hard to beat a 250 Ninja or similar bikes .

Ummmm ..... think you have lost your OP.  But dirt riding is an interesting topic/

  Yeah , probably . Don't ask a question on WG unless you are willing to read lots of answers , some even correct   

  Dusty

[Kev m]

 "Many" people NEVER fall?

Really?

I'm hard pressed to think of a motorcyclist I know that has NEVER dropped a bike (crash, parking lot, driveway, garage).

I'm sure there are SOME, but MANY? I DUNNO... I'm skeptical.

[canuguzzi]

"Many" people NEVER fall?

Really?

I'm hard pressed to think of a motorcyclist I know that has NEVER dropped a bike (crash, parking lot, driveway, garage).

I'm sure there are SOME, but MANY? I DUNNO... I'm skeptical.

 :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu

I've made sure to exclude those situations beyond your control, the driver that causes a collision and the same would apply to being stuck by lighting while riding or the deer that decides the moment in time to criss the road is when you intersect it.

Simply dropping the bike? Dumping it in a parking lot, drive way or garage? Not yet and its been over 40 years of owning bikes. It might happen but like Ive said, that doesnt mean it will happen and some here seem to envision is the guaranteed future of every rider.

Have I been involved in a collision? Yup. Wasn't talking about collisions.
There are bikes for sale all over the place that haven't been dropped. Someone is riding them. Since 1974, haven't taken a dive and I do know lots of riders that haven't ever fallen but then they don't think that because they can't do something that means no one else can either.

Again, the point was not everyone has to or will simply fall down without being involved in a collision. Instead of trying to figure out how to reduce the damage to a bike why not reduce the possibility of dropping it in the first place? Such a novel idea and one that protects the rider.

What good is an uparmored bike if the rider gets hurt? To hell with the bike, it can be replaced or repaired. Even if its a Moto Guzzi, its a bike and has a price tag on it. There isn't an price tag on the rider.

Just because some.people forget to put down a kickstand, look left and turn right, try to corner without leaning and don't know the limitations of their bikes or themselves doesn't mean everyone is like that. Most are not.

[Kev m]

Well, if we quantify it enough we can all reach the conclusion WE want.

My only objection was "MANY" and "NEVER".

I make no exceptions or exclusions.

I don't care who is to blame.

I'm just going with the odds (and my personal observations). They don't stand up by themselves (off the kickstands, and even then sometimes the stands fail). So eventually they fall down.

I bet that happens in some way to all eventually.

Of course there's always the exception that proves the rule.