A Quieter Motorcycle

[malik]

OK, so I should get an airhorn from an 18-wheeler and connect it to a timer so it blasts every 30 seconds while I drive along?  That should make me safer?  Thers is loud and then there is too loud. If someone thinks it is too dangerous to ride a motorcycle unless they make themselves a public nusciance then they shouldn't be riding a motorcycle.  Anyway it is been a pleasure for me to hear from others that also appreciate a quiet motorcycle. Thank you. Who knows, one day some aftermarket exhaust manufacturer might even get the clue that some riders would consider quieter exhaust to be an improvement. Right now my exhaust system is certified to meet an 80 dB(A) standard (and I am assuming without yet having measured it that that is about the actual current noise level) which is OK but if there was an aftermarket exhaust system that certified or promised a noise level of 72 dB(A) I would consider that a worthwhile upgrade even with a marginal (2-5%?) decrease in dyno hp.

Here's a link to Staintune's blurb (http://staintune.com.au/collections/moto-guzzi/products/moto-guzzi-v7-classic). It's interesting to note that they measured the stock Classic/Racer at 90db - probably back in 2009 - and theirs at 93db. (And street legal over here). I found the Staintune has a lower tone, quite unobtrusive and, on the Classic, really enjoy the  freeing up of the mid range. It's a pity about the cost - not many are likely to buy a set on spec - and if the stock mufflers on the current Guzzi do not strangle the mid range, there goes the principal advantage of these. But I really like mine & there's NO way the stocks are going back on.

Mal

[atavar]

Remember that the way decibels are measured 93dB is twice as loud as 90dB.  Every three dB is doubling in power or volume.

[cruzziguzzi]

Remember that the way decibels are measured 93dB is twice as loud as 90dB.  Every three dB is doubling in power or volume.

That's news to me. I had no idea that decibels were essentially logarithmic in expression - till now. I had only the most passing notice of this in wondering at certain municipalities getting so persnickety over what seemed to be a trivial difference. I once got sideways with - I think - Richfield, Minnesota in that my stock Z-28 exhaust exceeded their ordnance standard. It was by what would appear to be a minuscule amount but they took it seriously all the same.

Go figure.


Todd.


Of course, it coulda been the enthusiasm with which I was presenting those dBs now that I gander back.

[Daleroso]

There are exceptions. I was always surprised/pleased & lost count of the thumbs up &/or smiles from other riders, pedestrians & drivers that would roll down their windows hearing my (@ the time) Mille with LaFranconi competition pipes. And, at times I love the tortured scream of a Japanese multi with a Muzzy or Pops Yosh system.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  The quietest bike I ever had was my 06 Morphous.  At 40 mph the only sound was the wind and tires.
 It was also the smoothest bike I ever had.
 It made a bit of purr upon starting and then quieted down so that at a stoplight you had to look at the
 tachometer to know if it was running.

[Triple Jim]

Interestingly, my 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250's engine noise disappears over about 50 mph, covered by wind and road noise.

[Vasco DG]

When I'm riding my Griso in 'Drone' mode I can barely hear any induction or exhaust noise. If I decide to excercise the go handle I get a most satisfactory auditory stimulation, but you know what? It isn't a bloody awful racket to anyone who doesn't want to hear it a mile away!

When I was a kid we tended to have loud pipes and open fire others and stuff because we were told they were beneficial and, if done correctly, they could give benefits to the somewhat limited performance of the machines of the time.

That was half a century ago. Not only has the technology moved on but also in most places population densities have increased manyfold. Making more noise will produce little performance benefit, if any, it won't make your penis any bigger or make you more attractive to members of the opposite, (Or your own if you are that way inclined.) sex. What it may well do is make your machine a lot less efficient, dirtier and I can guarantee it will piss people off. Shit! It pisses me off! Saturday and Sunday mornings at this time of year are a 'lie-in' free zone because of the knobbers with loud, slow, motorbikes who insist on gunning up the hill out of town.

Of course if the only person you care about is yourself it doesn't really matter eh?

Pete

[Nic in Western NYS]

Interestingly, my 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250's engine noise disappears over about 50 mph, covered by wind and road noise.

Maybe for a different thread, but I'd like to hear how the 250 does for you in the mountains here.  Looks like a very sweet ride.

[agoldfish]

In the second decade of the twenty first century anybody who believes that an performance advantage for road use can be achieved by making the engine/exhaust noisier is the sort of dull witted moron who should only be allowed out in the company of a responsible adult.

Tosh, I fitted the LaFra Comps to my Monza along with Airfilters, rejetted to suit and it transformed the bike.

The gain in bottom end was amazing, making it a nicer bike to ride beause it didnt need reving so much to get a wriggle on.



Chris

[Kev m]

Tosh, I fitted the LaFra Comps to my Monza along with Airfilters, rejetted to suit and it transformed the bike.

The gain in bottom end was amazing, making it a nicer bike to ride beause it didnt need reving so much to get a wriggle on.

Sweeping genralisation like yours are akin to those made by the dull witted moron (Trump) who wants to rule America!

Chris

One might suggest that only a "dull witted moron" would think the Monza was made in the "second decade of the twenty first century"  which is what Pete was talking about. How changing the matched/tuned components of many modern EFI bikes for just a louder exhaust often yield little to no positive results.

He wasn't talking about taking a carbureted bike, opening both the exhaust and intake and re-jetting to match.

[Joliet Jim]

Good to know my 75, 98, and 01 all are outside that range

[Triple Jim]

Maybe for a different thread, but I'd like to hear how the 250 does for you in the mountains here.  Looks like a very sweet ride.

I live north of Raleigh, so I've ridden it only on the little hills around me so far.  But my daughter and I are planning to go to Deals Gap in the spring, and she'll be riding the 250.  I'll put some miles on it too, and can let you know how it does.  Two years ago a friend had one at that same meet, and he seemed to do just fine on it, and kept up with the big bikes.  The main difference is the need to downshift more often, I think.  The engine is not  lacking power, but you do need to keep the RPM up to use the power it has.  I'll try to remember to post about it.

[agoldfish]

One might suggest that only a "dull witted moron" would think the Monza was made in the "second decade of the twenty first century"  which is what Pete was talking about. How changing the matched/tuned components of many modern EFI bikes for just a louder exhaust often yield little to no positive results.

He wasn't talking about taking a carbureted bike, opening both the exhaust and intake and re-jetting to match.

Well i didnt want to mix my apples and oranges. My bad. My Ducatis, all post 2000 and 1 from this decade, have all benefitted from ditching the Stock exhaust/Cat. With the appropriate mapping to suit have all improved VASTLY!

Or to put it another way. Only a dull witted moron would think that a motor cycle built - in the second decade of the 20th century - to conform to increasingly stringent exhaust emissions (Euro 6 for example), cannot be improved upon by fitting an ... aftermarket exhaust and mapping to suit. The current Multistrada, and its emmision conforming setup is a PoS that many owners are trying to return to the dealer because it rides so poorly due to bad fueling.

It doesnt have to be louder (though i would disagree), but stock modern exhausts and injection systems are being increasingly compromised. The compromise you feel when you ride the bike.
I dont want to make so much racket that i wake the dead, but i dont want a NEW bike that bucks an spits back through airbox because its sooooo lean in order to pass emissions test.

Maybe VW had the right idea after all?

Chris

[Kev m]

Well i didnt want to mix my apples and oranges. My bad. My Ducatis, all post 2000 and 1 from this decade, have all benefitted from ditching the Stock exhaust/Cat. With the appropriate mapping to suit have all improved VASTLY!

Or to put it another way. Only a dull witted moron would think that a motor cycle built - in the second decade of the 20th century - to conform to increasingly stringent exhaust emissions (Euro 6 for example), cannot be improved upon by fitting an ... aftermarket exhaust and mapping to suit. The current Multistrada, and its emmision conforming setup is a PoS that many owners are trying to return to the dealer because it rides so poorly due to bad fueling.

It doesnt have to be louder (though i would disagree), but stock modern exhausts and injection systems are being increasingly compromised. The compromise you feel when you ride the bike.
I dont want to make so much racket that i wake the dead, but i dont want a NEW bike that bucks an spits back through airbox because its sooooo lean in order to pass emissions test.

Perhaps Pete can clarify, but I read his post to mean you gain nothing from JUST making it louder. Your post doesn't contradict that (my emphasis on your quotes).

Remapping is another issue. I don't recall Pete ever saying that you can't make improvements to the stock fueling.

I wonder how many people try remapping but leave the stock exhaust?

Either way, with regards to 8V Guzzis I believe Pete has a few dynos to back-up his claim that simply removing the DB killer in an aftermarket exhaust for instance did little or nothing to improve performance.

[MGPilot]

In one of my graduate psych courses, ran across a mid 70's study where chimps were taught to drive go-karts. With loud mufflers, the chimps kept driving. With quiet mufflers, they quickly lost interest.

Hard to get that image out of mind as I watch some folks ride by.

[Nic in Western NYS]

In one of my graduate psych courses, ran across a mid 70's study where chimps were taught to drive go-karts. With loud mufflers, the chimps kept driving. With quiet mufflers, they quickly lost interest.

Hard to get that image out of mind as I watch some folks ride by.

Hilarious.  Please send a link if you find the reference somewhere.

[agoldfish]

Perhaps Pete can clarify, but I read his post to mean you gain nothing from JUST making it louder. Your post doesn't contradict that (my emphasis on your quotes).

Remapping is another issue. I don't recall Pete ever saying that you can't make improvements to the stock fueling.

I wonder how many people try remapping but leave the stock exhaust?

Either way, with regards to 8V Guzzis I believe Pete has a few dynos to back-up his claim that simply removing the DB killer in an aftermarket exhaust for instance did little or nothing to improve performance.

I think remapping with a stock exhaust and cat is more than likely a wasted effort, up to a point. I used Guzzi-Dialog to retune my 900SSie, it had a lean spot in the mapping where to Euro 2 (?) test was performed. It helped a little. Better was increasing the CO trimmer so at idle instead of 1.4% CO it had 4%. technically illegal (in this country - Germany) but did help it run better. Exhausts on top of that and it was a different bike. Smoother, less jerky, and all of a sudden a joy in town instead of a PITA.

In this day and age, its probably conceptually wrong to think. Inlet. Exhaust. Mapping. Its one system, so changing one part will not be as fruitful as it should be, i.e. you have left the job half done. Even though its possible.

Like buying one, of a new pair of shoes. You can go out of the house like that but ...

On older vehicles, especially carbed ones, there are definately gains to be had.
http://www.bikeboy.org/750ssmonstercarb.html

Chris

[Kev m]

In this day and age, its probably conceptually wrong to think. Inlet. Exhaust. Mapping. Its one system, so changing one part will not be as fruitful as it should be, i.e. you have left the job half done. Even though its possible.

And Chris my friend, I BELIEVE that was a major part of what Pete was saying.

 

[Arizona Wayne]

In one of my graduate psych courses, ran across a mid 70's study where chimps were taught to drive go-karts. With loud mufflers, the chimps kept driving. With quiet mufflers, they quickly lost interest.

Hard to get that image out of mind as I watch some folks ride by.

On a humanoid note, back in the `60s whilst watching Indy cars competing @ Riverside Raceway, 1 of them had a silent turbo? engine whilst all the others had piston noisy engines.  When the turbo went by all you could hear was a little wind going over the body.(boring)  Shortly thereafter the turbo car was disqualified from racing.  If all the cars were that quiet, no spectators would show up to watch the race!   

[Dean Rose]

On a humanoid note, back in the `60s whilst watching Indy cars competing @ Riverside Raceway, 1 of them had a silent turbo? engine whilst all the others had piston noisy engines.  When the turbo went by all you could hear was a little wind going over the body.(boring)  Shortly thereafter the turbo car was disqualified from racing.  If all the cars were that quiet, no spectators would show up to watch the race!   

That's a big issue with Formula 1 right now the V6 is too quite, the fans want noise like the V8, V10 & V12 had.


Dean

[Vasco DG]

Tosh, I fitted the LaFra Comps to my Monza along with Airfilters, rejetted to suit and it transformed the bike.

The gain in bottom end was amazing, making it a nicer bike to ride beause it didnt need reving so much to get a wriggle on.

Sweeping genralisation like yours are akin to those made by the dull witted moron (Trump) who wants to rule America!

Chris

A Monza is hardly cutting edge technology but you would of gained almost the same results with a simple re-jet.

Pete

[Vasco DG]

I think remapping with a stock exhaust and cat is more than likely a wasted effort, up to a point.

Chris

Well you'd be wrong. The stock 8V Griso pipe for instance is one of the very best options out there.

[kirby1923]

On a humanoid note, back in the `60s whilst watching Indy cars competing @ Riverside Raceway, 1 of them had a silent turbo? engine whilst all the others had piston noisy engines.  When the turbo went by all you could hear was a little wind going over the body.(boring)  Shortly thereafter the turbo car was disqualified from racing.  If all the cars were that quiet, no spectators would show up to watch the race!   

That car was the turbine powered (like a jet) car owned by Andy Granatelli CEO of STP. A J Foyt drove it to victory in the Indy 500.
Your right it was later banned meaning no more turbine cars allowed.

:-)

[oldbike54]

That car was the turbine powered (like a jet) car owned by Andy Granatelli CEO of STP. A J Foyt drove it to victory in the Indy 500.
Your right it was later banned meaning no more turbine cars allowed.

:-)

 Yeah ,the "turbo" formula for Indy cars was just getting going . Kind of a shame that USAC outlawed the "turbine" cars . Lots of surplus ex military helicopter engines available at the time . Cheap power . Maybe the biggest advantage Granatelli's cars had was the all wheel drive system, first used on the Novi racers .

  Dusty

[Kev m]

Well you'd be wrong. The stock 8V Griso pipe for instance is one of the very best options out there.

So it flows well enough and remapping can improve the compromises made for emissions?

[Vasco DG]

Very much so. It's biggest issues are that it weighs a tonne and is as ugly as a very ugly thing on a holiday in uglyland.

Pete

[agoldfish]

"The stock 8V Griso pipe for instance is one of the very best options out there"

but

"It's biggest issues are that it weighs a tonne and is as ugly as a very ugly thing on a holiday in uglyland."

How can it be the best option when it weighs a ton and is ugly as sin?

Either there are no other decent exhaust options? Or the saving in weight is not appriciated as a road performance?

My experience with upgrading exhaust systems on modern machinery is mostly limited to Ducatis. Where the stock exhaust come anvils ARE restrictive and ultimately can be improved upon. I dropped 4kg from my 999 that way and the weight alone could be felt even when just moving the bike around in the Garage let alone on the road.

BTW, i had rejetted the Monza, first just for the Pods filters, but the real gain to the bottom end did come with the Pipes.

Chris
 

[Vasco DG]

Chris, sin has one N and mostly doesn't have an E. Spell check should do this for you. I can't spell to save my life but, well, just but....

Pete

[agoldfish]

Hi Pete, thank you for the corrections, i have edited my post.

[canuguzzi]

If a map will let me use the power the engine produces with less effort and over a broader range of the engines rpm range, hoorah.

I bet one reason loud pipes seem to make a bike faster is because the rider, being numbed to near death is afraid of becoming a blithering moron and just rides faster to get it over with.

There is some anecdotal proof to support that idea, it is in the number of poseurs that sit at a Starbucks thinking it is coffee they are drinking.