Author Topic: V7 Maps  (Read 28687 times)

Offline romanoaf

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V7 Maps
« on: January 29, 2016, 01:43:09 PM »
Hi All,

Simple question, is it possible to update the ECU map on the single TB dry stator V7's (MY14') at home with Guzzidiag?
I've had cold start issues with the bike since new, and have soaked a pair of plugs to the point of not starting in the cold (with Zard pipes). Normally not an issue for most to take to the dealer, but my closest is 2 hrs away, and I've already invested in the cables.

Thanks, 
14' V7 Stone, 08' 1200S

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2016, 02:03:16 PM »
I had read they are close, don't know for sure. Maybe Beetle could update.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2016, 02:06:11 PM »
Last I heard, not yet.
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Offline malik

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2016, 02:39:46 PM »
Not quite yet, but getting closer.
2010 V7 Classic, 2014 V7 Special
1996 1100 Sport Carb (in NZ), 2004 V11 LeMans (in UK)
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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2016, 02:39:46 PM »

Offline rocker59

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2016, 02:56:30 PM »
Hi All,

Simple question, is it possible to update the ECU map on the single TB dry stator V7's (MY14') at home with Guzzidiag?
I've had cold start issues with the bike since new, and have soaked a pair of plugs to the point of not starting in the cold (with Zard pipes). Normally not an issue for most to take to the dealer, but my closest is 2 hrs away, and I've already invested in the cables.

Thanks,

Does your bike have the latest factory update?  If it's running the original 2014 map, then I can tell you that you will see a huge improvement by having your dealer update your ECU with the newer map that was put out in 2015.

The updated map, which was released in 2015, is:  352BV738


My nearest dealer is also 2-hours away.  120-miles.  I made an appointment for a Saturday.  They knocked out the update with 1/2 hour labor.  Included downloading the new map, resetting the TPS, etc.  The bike ran MUCH better after that $42.50 visit to the shop.  I also did the "remove the main fuse" reset and the idle became much more stable at 1300 rpm.  No more issues with cold starting or cold drivability.  The bike can sit for days or weeks, and I can just start and go on a cool winter day.

It will be worth your time to get it back to the dealer for a map update and TPS reset.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 03:13:21 PM by rocker59 »
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beetle

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2016, 03:08:38 PM »
Not there yet. Working on it. The map reader for the MIUG3 is done, but the writer is still a work in progress.

Offline romanoaf

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2016, 03:22:21 PM »
Not there yet. Working on it. The map reader for the MIUG3 is done, but the writer is still a work in progress.

Thanks for the updates!
Is there anything I can do to help development? I'd be willing to guinea pig my bike to a degree.

Roman
14' V7 Stone, 08' 1200S

beetle

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2016, 03:30:04 PM »
Appreciate the offer, but you're a bit far away for us to do unspeakable things to your V7.

Offline romanoaf

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2016, 03:56:53 PM »
Appreciate the offer, but you're a bit far away for us to do unspeakable things to your V7.

No worries, I'm not adverse to playing around with software, and can push and pull maps; if you change your mind.
14' V7 Stone, 08' 1200S

Offline sturgeon

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2016, 03:09:30 PM »
...
It will be worth your time to get it back to the dealer for a map update and TPS reset.

I had mine in to the dealer last year for replacement of a leaky final-drive seal, under warranty. He updated the map while he was at it, no charge. Made a noticeable difference in cold starting, although it didn't really bother me all that much the way it was.
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Offline pauldaytona

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2016, 04:57:40 AM »
The reading maps is working, I'm busy with the xdf files, the v7 and v7II need different xdf. It looks that the bike has two fuel maps, and two ignition, it has a cold engine mode and a warm mode that get their own map.
Paul

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Offline pauldaytona

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2016, 04:23:19 AM »
The MUI 3 g reader for the new single TB v7 is ready and online.
We love to have each different map there is from the v7, so if you can download it and send it to us, of if it won't work we like to know too.

mail:  guzzidiag  at gmail.com

Won't be long for the writer is ready.

There are XDF files so you can see and edit maps in Tunerpro too.
The xdf's are made on the knowledge we have, some things will change when more experience is there with the Mui3g
The v7 and v7II need different xdf, take the right one.
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline malik

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2016, 06:16:07 AM »
Great stuff. I'll get on to that, but first a ride (just back tonight & off again in the morning for a few days).
2010 V7 Classic, 2014 V7 Special
1996 1100 Sport Carb (in NZ), 2004 V11 LeMans (in UK)
Carberry Enfield V-Twin, 2008 Royal Enfield Electra, 2006 RE Electra 535

Offline Clancy

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2016, 04:00:53 PM »
I will give the reader a go tonight and send you the file.

Paul, your efforts and dedication to this are very appreciated.
I will be showing this appreciation with a donation and hope others 'follow suit'.

Cheers
Craig
Cheers
Craig

2012 GRiSO (Factory rollered, Beetle mapped)

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2016, 01:48:23 AM »
The most work has been done by Beard, the programmer. Don't think it's my work only. Any donation is appreciated.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 02:22:43 AM by pauldaytona »
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline Clancy

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2016, 04:16:39 AM »
Just successfully uploaded the bin and am looking at it with Tunerpro
 :bow:
Cheers
Craig

2012 GRiSO (Factory rollered, Beetle mapped)

Offline organfixsing

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2016, 05:37:41 AM »
I downloaded the maps from my 2015 V7II, i.e. the original 740 map.
 Looking at the fuel maps it seems to me that you may have the 'Warm' and 'Cold' maps reversed. The warm map has more fuel than the cold map.
I would like to get hold of a 796 map to see what they have done to improve the 'cold' running. Thanks for all the work you people have put in.

Cheers

Brian  :grin: :bow:
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pete roper

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2016, 06:12:42 AM »
Mark now has a corrected OL map for dry alt MUIG3 and V7II. We know this is an improvement on the stock set up and I'm still trying to get my head around how the MUIG3 physically works. It seems to have a cam operated butterfly but one of the things that has to be done when re-mapping is the 'Throttle Self Learning' function and you can hear a servo motor operate when the function is carried out. This isn't just the Stepper cycling, it's another 'Electro/mechanical' function. Needless to say we are told nothing by MM or The Factory! :rolleyes:

Pete

Offline Kev m

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2016, 06:49:47 AM »
Mark now has a corrected OL map for dry alt MUIG3 and V7II. We know this is an improvement on the stock set up and I'm still trying to get my head around how the MUIG3 physically works. It seems to have a cam operated butterfly but one of the things that has to be done when re-mapping is the 'Throttle Self Learning' function and you can hear a servo motor operate when the function is carried out. This isn't just the Stepper cycling, it's another 'Electro/mechanical' function. Needless to say we are told nothing by MM or The Factory! :rolleyes:

Pete

TOTAL SWAG - but maybe there is a variable connection between the portion of the cam to which the cables connect and the throttle butterfly. Something akin to how VVT motors have an adjustable connection between the timing chain and camshaft pulley?

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pete roper

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2016, 07:04:41 AM »
Logic suggests a RBW system with a mechanical over-ride but I freely admit to being Robinson Crueso on that one.

Pete

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2016, 08:39:08 AM »
I suppose they do as little mechanical as possible. This is a low cost unit, developed for scooters and the like. There is a map sensor inside. But what the stepper should do? I'll look again in the docs at home
Paul

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Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline Kev m

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2016, 08:56:44 AM »
I can't imagine why a throttle body would be both RBW AND still have a stepper.

I guess it's possible, but it seems redundant.

Current Fleet

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Offline pauldaytona

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2016, 01:47:17 PM »
I just looked, the miu has a stepper, and not rbw.

3. Operating logic

Idle speed management:
The ECU manages idle speed completely automatically.
To allow idle speed management, the throttle body has a
throttle valve by-pass duct controlled by a stepper motor. 
The ECU defines a target idle speed in relation to operating
conditions (engine temperature, ambient temperature etc.), and
actuates the stepper motor accordingly to maintain the idle
speed at this target value.
The idle speed is therefore calculated by the ECU and cannot be
modified.
Tampering with the setting of the calibration screw will compromise the ability of the ECU to maintain a
correct and stable idle speed.
In the event of tampering, the MIU unit must be replaced as it will not be possible to restore the original
calibration.
Notes:
1. At key-on, the stepper motor is completely open to facilitate starting (kick-down position).
2. At each stepper motor step, the injection time is also altered to maintain a constant air/fuel ratio.
3. Only oxygen sensor-based or MAP sensor-based correction influences injection time independently
of stepper motor aperture. 

Notes:
1. Oxygen sensor-based correction has priority over MAP sensor-based correction.
2. The correction factor is updated when operating conditions are stable - in other words, when neither
the throttle aperture nor the engine speed vary excessively rapidly.
3. If the correction factor requested exceeds ±25%, the EFI warning lamp on the instrument panel is
activated, the self-adaptive matrices are reset to zero and the error is memorised in the ECU.

New self-adaptive engine management (air/fuel ratio) strategy
The G3 unit used with this engine features a self-adaptive engine management function.
This allows the ECU to adapt to the effective needs of the engine, and even compensate for engine
deteriorating factors such as, for instance, fouling of the air filter or throttle body.
To do this, the ECU uses feedback from the oxygen sensors or the MAP sensor in relation to the effective
operating conditions. In the latter instance, the effective absolute manifold pressure is used to calculate
the effective mass of air aspirated into the cylinder.
The correction factor is calculated and applied by compiling and continuously updating two 10x10 self
adaptive matrices, with one for cold engine conditions and the other for hot engine conditions.
At each reference point (rpm – throttle aperture), the injection time is increased or reduced by a
percentage equal to the value of the corresponding correction parameter.
The diagnostic tool may be used to read the ADAPTIVE FUEL CORRECTION parameter, which is expressed
as a percentage of the base map injection time.
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline oldlegs

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2016, 04:03:57 PM »
Brilliant, thanks for the explanation. Steve.

Offline zokn

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2016, 08:20:18 AM »
I may have this all wrong, so please feel free to clarify, correct etc.

I have a 2013 V7 Stone that runs well 98% of the time, but it does need to be warm or it will stall, it occasionally falters slightly if it gets a long, hot, run at higher speeds, and then it will idle roughly until it settles and I've have some coffee and a snack. There are over 10,000 km on the bike and I've performed all services. (I'm fairly experienced: maintained and rebuilt BSA's and R-type BMW's, Series Land Rovers, and lots of old marine engines.) I live 3 hours from the nearest Guzzi dealer, but after speaking on the phone with the service person who took my call, I have no confidence in taking my bike there for the ECU map upgrading: He did not know about ECU upgrading or if there even was a new map. The next nearest dealers are in Quebec (SM Sport, Goblet Moto, Rock Moto),  or New Hampshire (Seacoast Sport), so that's not really practical, but may be necessary. I am planning to ride from Nova Scotia to Montreal this summer, so I could plan to add a day, take a detour, and get the service done.

I believe the following:

- A new ECU map (352BV738) that may improve the bike's running exists and should be installed

- Installing the new map is not absolutely necessary if I can use the bike as it is without harming it

- The latest Guzzidiag app, writer app, and reader app would enable me to do this myself if I had a copy of the new map

So, am I way off the mark here? Is the new map available to me? Can I install it myself? (I have the apps and cables, by the way.)

Okay, what do you think/know/suggest?

Thanks,

Stephen





Stephen

Nova Scotia, Canada

2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
1975 BMW R90/6 (sold)

Previously: several BSAs, Lambretta 150 with a Bambino sidecar, 1978 Honda 550, 1985 BMW K100RT, 1996 Ducati Multistrada

Offline Kev m

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2016, 09:28:41 AM »
Stephen, you've got everything right!
Current Fleet

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Offline zokn

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2016, 12:57:46 PM »
Stephen, you've got everything right!

Great, and thanks.

So, where can I find the latest map download?

Stephen
Stephen

Nova Scotia, Canada

2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
1975 BMW R90/6 (sold)

Previously: several BSAs, Lambretta 150 with a Bambino sidecar, 1978 Honda 550, 1985 BMW K100RT, 1996 Ducati Multistrada

pete roper

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2016, 04:50:55 PM »
Somebody will of skelped it off a bike with Guzzidiag by now. Ask around and someone will be able to send it to you. Mark's map is a better bet as it's open loop.

Pete

beetle

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2016, 05:13:16 PM »
I've got 352BV738. I'll PM you a link to download it.

Offline zokn

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Re: V7 Maps
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2016, 01:18:01 PM »
I have successfully connected Guzzidiag V0.47 to my 2013 V7 Stone and read data. I have also successfully connected via the IAWMUIG3Reader V0.04 to download copy of my bike's original map.

But, I have been unable to write a new map to the bike using IAWMUIG3Writer V0.02. When I look for the map in the file list on the left of the selection window, neither the new map .bin file nor the .bin file I downloaded from the bike are visible. They are both on my MacBook's desktop, and I can click through the selection window's hierarchy to my desktop, where I can see lots of files, but not the maps.

As of May 31, 2016:  Success!!  I've now got the new map installed. Many thanks to Beetle for answering my PM's so promptly and helpfully.

Stephen
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 07:52:08 AM by zokn »
Stephen

Nova Scotia, Canada

2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
1975 BMW R90/6 (sold)

Previously: several BSAs, Lambretta 150 with a Bambino sidecar, 1978 Honda 550, 1985 BMW K100RT, 1996 Ducati Multistrada

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