Tell me about riding with a child passenger.

[stevet]

My nephew is getting back on a motorcycle next season after 2 years off since selling his previous Shadow 1100.  He has an 8 year old daughter who in the next year or 2 will be tall enough to firmly reach the pegs of his soon-to-purchase FJR, buying from a friend of mine.  (She can reach the pegs on my FJR now, but more growth will be safer.)  The bike will also have a passenger backrest provision.

So, along with size/height, when did you know the behavior and maturity traits of your child were right to be a passenger on a motorcycle?  And any other words of wisdom (child size safety gear, travel distance limits, etc)?  The kiddo is excited for her dad to get another motorcycle, and to be a passenger as well.  Those are good signs...  And financially, he believes in very good insurance coverage, just in case.

Thanks,
Steve.

[m13]

OK , I have a STRONG opinion on this topic. My Boys now are in their 20s and I NEVER would have considered putting one on the back of my motorcycle. I know a parent pretty much can do antything they chose with their offspring, but for me their safety was always #1.  I have seen small childeren ASLEEP while transported behind the bike driver with NO safe way to address them flipping off..Their choice..but not one I endorse. Let the opinions fly. this is only my own.

[Luap McKeever]

I started mine out with little rides. You know, to the close by store riding defensively and slow until I knew they were ready. Same way my dad did with me. Now my daughters have tens of thousands of miles riding with me and they will both tell you that is their fondest memories with me. 


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[stevet]

OK , I have a STRONG opinion on this topic. My Boys now are in their 20s and I NEVER would have considered putting one on the back of my motorcycle. I know a parent pretty much can do antything they chose with their offspring, but for me their safety was always #1.  I have seen small childeren ASLEEP while transported behind the bike driver with NO safe way to address them flipping off..Their choice..but not one I endorse. Let the opinions fly. this is only my own.

Really, I do appreciate your opinion and sharing your observations, this is exactly the sort of information I'm looking for.  Thank you for taking the time to write.

Steve

[m13]

I started mine out with little rides. You know, to the close by store riding defensively and slow until I knew they were ready. Same way my dad did with me. Now my daughters have tens of thousands of miles riding with me and they will both tell you that is their fondest memories with me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am sure you daughters have fond memories with you as my children do of the things we did together. I remember as a child riding in the back of pick up trucks, going out to sea on trawlers as an adolescent, many things that I now may not chose for a child for safety judgments. My transition through parenthood had me reconsider the thresholds of safety I was previously comfortable with. I appreciate and understand that each parent's decisions almost always produce a wonderful adult no matter what variation of care and exploration we provide as their early guardian of safety. It's all good. Thanks for your opinion too.

[Kev m]

My oldest, now 18, started riding with me when she was 7. I made sure she had full gear (pants, boots, armored jacket, gloves, FF helmet) and only took her on bikes with backrests or topcases.

I don't think she ever fell asleep back there like my wife and my ex both did at times. I kept the rides with her short when she was younger.

But the fact is there is little or no risk of someone falling off asleep I know from hundreds of miles with a passenger in that condition. At least if there is a backrest of some sort. They are simply too well contained between be, the backrest, and their legs on either side of the bike.

My next youngest is almost ready to start riding with me and she's excited to do so. I'll use the same requirements. She's already ridden over 1000 miles on her mom's Ducati though it was all in utero.

[Wayne Orwig]

When my daughter was small, I found a small helmet and would take her on rides with use. Three up, on the motorcycle. I was stopped a number of times, but never ticketed, because I wasn't breaking any law. She couldn't fall off. She had as much protection (helmets, jackets, etc.) as the two of use.

[webmost]

OK , I have a STRONG opinion on this topic. My Boys now are in their 20s and I NEVER would have considered putting one on the back of my motorcycle. I know a parent pretty much can do antything they chose with their offspring, but for me their safety was always #1.  I have seen small childeren ASLEEP while transported behind the bike driver with NO safe way to address them flipping off..Their choice..but not one I endorse. Let the opinions fly. this is only my own.

Anything thrilling in this life, there's danger involved. It is your responsibility as a man to teach your progeny not to grow up scaredy pants. Their Mom's sure not going to do it.



I told all my grandchildren they could ride as soon as their feet could reach the pegs. Youngest girl got impatient, came over one day wearing sneakers with prolly four inch soles, insisting she could reach. Had to be a man of my word.

It's fun.

[OlDogface]

Get them full gear, teach them to sit still, and go for it. I have fond memories of riding with my father and uncles on the back of their bikes.

I lived in Europe for several years where they use motorcycles as utility vehicles more than toys and kids regularly ride with their parents to school, the train station, etc.. Same in most Asian and Middle Eastern countries I've visited. People in the US somehow think they need an Expedition or Suburban as soon as they have a kid...it's just not so. I started riding with my son on the back when he was about 7 or so and he loved it from the start. My daughter rode with me a few times and wasn't interested. I didn't push either of them to ride. Today they are in their 20's and both know how to ride but don't own motorcycles (simply their choice, not because of financial reasons).

[Sasquatch Jim]

 Safest way is in a sidecar.

[Huzo]

Maybe the thing to do is ask yourself, what will be the questions you will put to yourself if IT Happens...Will you be satisfied with the answers that you have to give yourself. There'll be nothing that will make it seem anything other than your fault, (even if it wasn't). The chances of a crash don't escalate, but the consequences are off the scale. BTW, how in the hell could you be safer in a sidecar ???!

[Tom]

Your state's laws may have an age requirement too.  Check.  An appropriate sized helmet should be fitted.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  My sidecar doesn't fall over.  I have had 11 of them since 68 and driven intelligently they are as safe as a motorcycle can get.  More so than trikes, I've had one of those.  An 8 year old child has enough understanding to not climb around when it is moving.  Younger could be a problem.  When I have carried younger ones it was on moms' lap.

[Tom]

 :1: on sidecars.  Used the hack more with the youngest.  A side benefit is that they're the "cool" kid in jr. high.

[pehayes]

I have equally STRONG opinions.  The safest thing for them is to leave them home, don't climb any trees, keep your fingers out of frog ponds, don't eat food at anyone else's home.  Used to carry wife Regina on the back but she tried falling to sleep on boring roads.  Quickly put her through an MSF class and bought her a smallblock Guzzi.  She now has her 100K pin and rides EV.  Started both of our sons at age 5.  It was easier with a motorcyclist wife.  Falling to sleep on monotonous roads was a real issue for them.  From back there, they can't see the things that the pilot can and thus have less stimulation.  My choices were to deprive them and leave them home safely or to find ways to best manage the risk.  To me, falling off while sleeping was far more likely to occur than a crash incident.  I had to face the most probable, not most severe form of risk.  I adapted a seat belt system to attach the child to ME, not to the bike (controversial).  I can't risk them falling off on an otherwise safe ride.  Belt lets them sleep and can't fall off and signals me when they are starting to nod off at an odd angle.  I can't risk them physically attached to a 500 pound moto tumbling down the road.  For ME (YMMV) the safest I could do was to have them tumble with me in an incident.  Yes, I was seriously careful but still we all recognize that unplanned doodoo can happen.  Both sons eventually got moto license.  One has chosen to step away.  I never pushed.  If you don't WANT to be on a moto then you don't belong there.  The other is an administrator for a moto touring company and does many more miles per year than I do.  I now have a granddaughter that just turned 3.  Her parents are on board with waiting until 5 for the first ride.  Surely back to the belting system once again.  And her dad is the one who stepped away!

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Huzo]

  My sidecar doesn't fall over.  I have had 11 of them since 68 and driven intelligently they are as safe as a motorcycle can get.  More so than trikes, I've had one of those.  An 8 year old child has enough understanding to not climb around when it is moving.  Younger could be a problem.  When I have carried younger ones it was on moms' lap.

Jim, yours (and my) sidecar is a LOT heavier and wider than a comparable solo, has problems with assymetric forces under braking as you are aware, in a right hand turn (in your country) there are reduced options available if the stuff hits the fan. Brake and you will run wide, increase your turn rate and you know what will happen, and if you collide with something solid you don't have the benefit of perhaps being thrown clear to some degree. It doesn't matter if you've had 50 sidecars over 75 years, you are a skilled operator and not everyone will be able to match your skills. I'm not suggesting you're unsafe but you are not "safer" than a solo just because you say so. Reckon you need a massive amount of experience as you do, before chucking a child in and having a go.

[Tom]

Obviously,  risk/reward.  The hack is more visible in traffic so safer from my point of view.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  The key phrase in my post was "ride intelligently."  That means don't travel at the same speeds as a solo bike,  slow down ahead of turns and don't put yourself in situations where power out is your choice of options.
 Powering out will pull hard towards the sidecar, Braking hard will pull away from the sidecar , unless the sidecar has brakes.  On a solo bike, the phrase when in doubt power out, is what many go by.  On my sidecar rig I believe in ,
"When in doubt, wait it out."  Let the other vehicle pass in front of you even if you may be in the right of away.  The other vehicle doesn't give a rip if you are more vulnerable.   Many years ago ( 60s ) I remember reading that in England,
 sidecar machines paid the lowest insurance premiums of any motorcycles and I believe cars too.  Since they had a profit motive , they must have known something about Brit riders riding state of mind.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Obviously,  risk/reward.  The hack is more visible in traffic so safer from my point of view.

Agreed. The sidecar is just unusual enough that drivers "see" it. I've never had a car do the usual things they do to motorcycles when I was driving the rig.

[stevet]

Your state's laws may have an age requirement too.  Check.  An appropriate sized helmet should be fitted.

Motorcycle laws here in MN, https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/ots/mmsc/motorcycle-license/Pages/laws-regulations.aspx
Passengers under the age of 18 must wear a DOT-approved helmet. 169.974 subd. 4 (a)
Passengers must be able to reach both footrests while seated on the passenger seat. 169.974 subd. 5 (b)
Based on these passenger requirements, she's ready to ride pillion now.  (Well, after getting her a helmet.)

What about the other safety gear?  I imagine the only full body coverage riding gear he will find is going to be mainly motocross type gear, correct?  But that wouldn't include jackets and overpants, like the typical street riding gear for adults.  I know Aerostich doesn't offer kids sizes.

Does anyone have ideas on street style riding gear for children?  In particular, the jacket and pants?  I guess it's time to search the usual manufacturers and see what comes up in extra small.

Thanks,
Steve.

[Penderic]

A tisket, a tasket,

Stick 'em in a wicker basket!

 

[Ncdan]

I started my boys from the time they could walk. At the age of 5 they were taking overnight camping trips. I used a belt with Velcro binding around me and them in the event they would fall asleep, when they did they just leaned against me and the sleeping bags were attached to the top of the saddle bags which put them in a little cocoon. Now, all that being told, now days I would not do it! The time I'm talking of was in the early 80's before texting and herds of traffic. I have even stopped ridding with my wife on board in the past two years.

[oldbike54]

I don't think she ever fell asleep back there like my wife and my ex both did at times.

 Wait , I think we may have a clue to something here 

 Dusty

[Kentktk]

  My sidecar doesn't fall over.  I have had 11 of them since 68 and driven intelligently they are as safe as a motorcycle can get.  More so than trikes, I've had one of those.  An 8 year old child has enough understanding to not climb around when it is moving.  Younger could be a problem.  When I have carried younger ones it was on moms' lap.

Sidecars are interesting relics and I understand the less than easy dynamics of riding one, but I would never consider calling them a safe
motorcycle or intimate that they are a motorcycle.

[Kev m]

Clue?

And how come a moderator can't figure out how to not respond inside the quote?

[emoji13]

[fotoguzzi]

Did it only ONCE w/my youngest, Joey.. took him to the Wi Guzzi rally.. several hours in the saddle both ways..He didn't complain but in hind sight it was kind of dangerous..

[oldbike54]

Clue?

And how come a moderator can't figure out how to not respond inside the quote?

[emoji13]

 Oh bite me 

 Sorry for your inability to recognize humor . Oh I almost forgot , you possess that highly refined big city sense of humor 

 Dusty

[Sasquatch Jim]

 Well Sent KenKtk, that tells me that you don't own one, therefore cannot speak from experience.
 A couple of borrowed rides may have introduced them but an extended ownership with tens of thousands
 of miles imparts a lot more information.

[oldbike54]

 Pirsig was slightly perplexed why his son Chris didn't seem to be enjoying riding behind him , until realizing that Chris couldn't really see very well with his head buried in his back .

 Dusty

[Kev m]

I have equally STRONG opinions.  The safest thing for them is to leave them home, don't climb any trees, keep your fingers out of frog ponds, don't eat food at anyone else's home.  Used to carry wife Regina on the back but she tried falling to sleep on boring roads.  Quickly put her through an MSF class and bought her a smallblock Guzzi.  She now has her 100K pin and rides EV.  Started both of our sons at age 5.  It was easier with a motorcyclist wife.  Falling to sleep on monotonous roads was a real issue for them.  From back there, they can't see the things that the pilot can and thus have less stimulation.  My choices were to deprive them and leave them home safely or to find ways to best manage the risk.  To me, falling off while sleeping was far more likely to occur than a crash incident.  I had to face the most probable, not most severe form of risk.  I adapted a seat belt system to attach the child to ME, not to the bike (controversial).  I can't risk them falling off on an otherwise safe ride.  Belt lets them sleep and can't fall off and signals me when they are starting to nod off at an odd angle.  I can't risk them physically attached to a 500 pound moto tumbling down the road.  For ME (YMMV) the safest I could do was to have them tumble with me in an incident.  Yes, I was seriously careful but still we all recognize that unplanned doodoo can happen.  Both sons eventually got moto license.  One has chosen to step away.  I never pushed.  If you don't WANT to be on a moto then you don't belong there.  The other is an administrator for a moto touring company and does many more miles per year than I do.  I now have a granddaughter that just turned 3.  Her parents are on board with waiting until 5 for the first ride.  Surely back to the belting system once again.  And her dad is the one who stepped away!

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

We may have discussed this before but what makes you think a child a fraction of your size is much less at risk strapped to YOU?

and what makes you think they would just fall off of they feel asleep?

I dunno I guess my evidence on the latter point is all anecdotal, but I just don't see how it would happen.

Haven't you seen someone sleep in a chair or on a plane? Have you ever seen someone sleeping in a chair just suddenly fall over?

On a bike they're even more secure, they're straddling something, and on many of the ones I've owned the passenger's legs are also straddling me to some extent. I'd know if they started to move, but then then it would take some significant movement to extract their legs and fall off.

Like I've said I've had passengers fall asleep on longer rides and it was never the slightest issue.

But man I wouldn't want to fall on one of my kids cause they were attached to me.