First ride on a Classic Norton

[PeteS]

"I'm not sure how to value this one since it is kind of a bastard."

Low, given it's cobbled together history.         

And if that tank hasn't been lined, plan on a new metal tank.

I am not sure that fact that its been cobbled together makes much of difference. I would be surprised if there were more than 3 stock Nortons in the world. If bought and ridden as intended things would break and their faults would be evident. Books have been written on how to improve them. The bike pictured looks like its in good shape. I would swap out the tank if you plan to at least leave the county. Friends with Roadster tanks are looking for gas stations at around 100 miles. No idea what the SS/Hi Rider tank is good for but assume its less than a roadster tank. The S pipes are plus as they are less common.

Check the crankcase casting behind the cylinder for cracks. The studs are undersize and if not kept tight will move fore and aft in turns trying to keep the rear wheel in line, especially on the 750s. Norton increased the wall thickness on the 850s to help prevent cracking. The fix for the 750s is to ream the next size and use precision ground stock for studs.

Pete

Pete

[jas67]

I knew the last ones had shifting on the left. I but I didn't know that they switched the shifting pattern. My Ambassador has shifting on the left, but with a one up three down shifting pattern. This is going to get real confusing really fast. Normally I have no problems going to the Ambo because it likes to be shifted slowly so my brain has plenty of time to think. It is harder going back to a modern bike and remembering how to shift.

My Eldorado is left shift four down one up, my Ducati Monza 250 is right shift four down one up, and, of course all the rest are left shift 1 down 4 or 5 up.  I haven't ridden the Eldo yet, so, my brain is currently programed to do the four down, one up thing when shifting with the right foot, and "normal" shifting with the left foot.   It'll be interesting when I get the Eldo on the road.

I'd love to try a Norton out sometime.    Of all the vintage Brit bikes, the Nortons interest me me the most.

[pyoungbl]

The Norton electric start was known to be problematic, a design that was based on the only electric motor available at the time.  Recently Matt Rambo (
Colorado Norton Works) has come out with a new e-start system that uses a Sportster starter, works great.  When you get tired of kicking this is the way to go.

Peter Y.

[Lannis]

The Norton electric start was known to be problematic, a design that was based on the only electric motor available at the time.  Recently Matt Rambo (
Colorado Norton Works) has come out with a new e-start system that uses a Sportster starter, works great.  When you get tired of kicking this is the way to go.

Peter Y.

Mine still has the stock electric start on it and it works well.   Just like any other old e-start bike, though, the way to make it work is to run a dedicated, properly sized ground cable straight from the battery to the starter ....

I probably won't change anything unless it gets to be problematic.   The starter (original), charging system (original), carbs (original Amals) etc are all understandable and work well until they don't ... !

Lannis

[guzzista]

There are sources for every part. While finding a new steel HiRider tank may be challenging the Roadster tanks are readily available.

http://www.accessnorton.com is a fantastic forum full of very knowledgeable folks.

+1 on Accessnorton. Ditto for parts availability. My best example: ordered parts online from RGM Motors in UK( recommended)  on a Sunday night . Received my items on the following Thursday  AM at my workplace in SF!

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Travis: Got Whitworth? If not, you'll be needing a set.

[Penderic]

Not to worry! You can put those leaky Amals to good use!



 

[JJ]

Here's ol' JJ back in the day (mid-1990's) in Dallas, TX on his award winning 1975 Norton 850 Commando Interstate MK III.   

I bought this one (complete) in pieces and boxes for $300 at a garage sale in upstate NY.  Cool bike,    but DOES require a lot of "fettling" as they say. 

Would love to own another one (restored and sorted) someday...   Sold it for $6,000 back in 2001...in this condition today, probably $10K +




photohosting

[blackcat]

There are sources for every part. While finding a new steel HiRider tank may be challenging the Roadster tanks are readily available.

http://www.accessnorton.com is a fantastic forum full of very knowledgeable folks.

Yeah, I'd go for a roadster tank. I have a HiRider tank kicking around here somewhere, you can have it for the shipping cost but it really isn't worth the time or money IMO.  I should just fill it with dirt and plant some basil in the opening.

[Gino]

Here's the thing, been riding Nortons and Guzzis since way back, love them both ( got 7 Nortons and 4 Guzzis still ) I ride Nortons cause I'm a masochist  , Guzzis I can ride hard and suffer less, both brilliant 👌

[Lannis]

Would love to own another one (restored and sorted) someday...   Sold it for $6,000 back in 2001...in this condition today, probably $10K +

No "probably" about it.   I can vouch for that, personally and painfully ..... They're beautiful bikes, though.

[swooshdave]

Travis: Got Whitworth? If not, you'll be needing a set.

Are you sure? Have you owned a Norton Commando?

[Sheepdog]

I had a '74 850 Commando Interstate. Still kick-only, but easy to start once you figure out how. I toured on mine for a number of years and it never let me down. Stainless exhaust and mudguards, a 25 liter tank, and the funkiest rear axle/drum brake arrangement I've ever seen. Mine was a gem and much appreciated till I sold it to a good friend (who wrecked it within a week). Only about 55 hp on most, but it pulled like a twenty mule team. The sound was pretty great, too.

[jumpmaster]

Are you sure? Have you owned a Norton Commando?

Charlie hasn't, to my knowledge, but he's worked on at least one.  I have owned one since 1979 & I can assure you that there are at least a few bolts that absolutely require a Whitworth wrench - neither SAE or metric wrenches will fit them.  Well, I guess you could use a chisel to get them off....... except that a couple of them are countersunk so you couldn't even use a chisel.

[jumpmaster]

Re:  Your Norton Interstate looks great. Maybe I'll get two. One for around town and an Interstate for longing trips.   

You don't need 2 - just buy a 74 or 75 Roadster, then buy an Interstate tank, side covers & seat.  Aside from those parts, the models are identical.  Earlier Interstates had different header pipes & mufflers than the Roadsters but were otherwise also identical.  An expensive solution, but much cheaper than buying 2 bikes!   On the other hand, the Interstate is perfectly fine for "around town", too, unless you just are in love with the looks of the Roadster.  Even for around town riding, having a 6 gal tank ( approx. 300 miles to empty unless you're a street racer) vs. a 3 - 3.5 gal tank is nice, & the handling differences are minimal.

[tpeever]

I knew the last ones had shifting on the left. I but I didn't know that they switched the shifting pattern. My Ambassador has shifting on the left, but with a one up three down shifting pattern. This is going to get real confusing really fast. Normally I have no problems going to the Ambo because it likes to be shifted slowly so my brain has plenty of time to think. It is harder going back to a modern bike and remembering how to shift.

Commandos changed to left hand shift in 1975. AMC gearbox was designed for right hand shift and I have been told that the '75 shifters feel kinda vague in comparison to the right hand shift due the much longer linkage that has to go through to the other side of the bike. No personal experience though. Can tell you that the AMC gearbox is a beautiful thing when set up properly. My '74 with right hand shift is the best motorcycle gearbox I have ever encountered. Snick, snick, snick! I up and 3 down on the passenger side. Same as my Moto Guzzi V700 but that gearbox is crude and agricultural by comparison!

Shifting from right to left shifting can be challenging when moving between vintage and modern bikes. Half my bikes are right hand shift and half are left hand shift and it hasn't been that much of an issue so far but I do think about how I am going to respond in an emergency situation.

[jumpmaster]

Commandos changed to left hand shift in 1975. AMC gearbox was designed for right hand shift and I have been told that the '75 shifters feel kinda vague in comparison to the right hand shift due the much longer linkage that has to go through to the other side of the bike. No personal experience though. Can tell you that the AMC gearbox is a beautiful thing when set up properly. /quote]

My 75 shifts fine; much better than my 2013 Harley & marginally better than my Mille most of the time.  It does have additional linkage that can, I suppose, introduce some extra "slop" in the movement, but if the linkage is tight & set up right it's fine & I don't notice any slop in my bike.  Another factor is a correctly adjusted clutch - difficulty in finding neutral is a common complaint against 75 Nortons (maybe others too but I've only owned the one 75), but I find that finding neutral, even at a dead stop, is easy if I have the clutch adjusted just right.  As most of us know, shifting an old bike's transmission can be as much art as skill, & many bikes take a little time to discover the best technique for shifting that particular bike.

[swooshdave]

Charlie hasn't, to my knowledge, but he's worked on at least one.  I have owned one since 1979 & I can assure you that there are at least a few bolts that absolutely require a Whitworth wrench - neither SAE or metric wrenches will fit them.  Well, I guess you could use a chisel to get them off....... except that a couple of them are countersunk so you couldn't even use a chisel.

Oh, I know there are a couple but they are one's you'd rarely touch. I just didn't want people to think you had to have a set of Whitworth at all times.

[Lannis]

Charlie hasn't, to my knowledge, but he's worked on at least one. 

Charlie, in the interest of list peace and quiet, is showing admirable restraint here.   

Were he to get going, you'd hear some damning of Nortons up street and down alley that would surprise you!      

Lannis

[Mr Pootle]

I've had Nortons, I've had Triumphs, but best of all was

[Sheepdog]

Interstates have more than just a big tank. They also have a longer and flatter seat, stainless mudguards, and little or no plastic or fiberglass on them. The chassis and engine was the same beneath the bodywork though, creating a bike with all the power and handling of the Roadster with a more practical slant (though the Interstate's dry weight of 410 lbs was 20 lbs greater than the Roadster). I lived in the Catskills for two of the years that I owned that bike; it was magnificent on those twisty, narrow mountain roads...especially with a fresh pair of Avons.

[JJ]

Beautiful bike, Lannis!    Makes me want another one!!

I would say every motorcyclist who has been riding for a long time should one day experience the joy of a running well sorted Commando...on the pipe...at 65-70 mph... at on a smooth, twisty, country road on a bright sunny day! :1:   

The ride / sound / handling / feeling is nothing sort of magical!! (IMHO)

[tpeever]

I've had Nortons, I've had Triumphs, but best of all was

Ooooh la la!!! Love Velos!! Never owned or ridden one but have lusted after one for years!!

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Oh, I know there are a couple but they are one's you'd rarely touch. I just didn't want people to think you had to have a set of Whitworth at all times.

Nor did I say Travman *had* to have a set. I simply asked (jokingly) "Got Whitworth" that was all.   

[PeteS]

Oh, I know there are a couple but they are one's you'd rarely touch. I just didn't want people to think you had to have a set of Whitworth at all times.

Pretty much all of the engine and transmission nuts are Whitworth, British Cycle thread actually but Whitworth wrenches fit. The rest of the cycle parts are SAE.

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ooooh la la!!! Love Velos!! Never owned or ridden one but have lusted after one for years!!

Oh yeah. I had the serious hots for one when I was a kid. Fortunately.. I couldn't afford it. I wasn't a good enough mechanic to even *think* about maintaining a Velo then.

[Mr Pootle]

Oh yeah. I had the serious hots for one when I was a kid. Fortunately.. I couldn't afford it. I wasn't a good enough mechanic to even *think* about maintaining a Velo then.

And that's why she had to go. When she was running well she was stable, comfortable, a delight. But when she was bad, she was very, very bad. After four years I needed a bit of cash for a car, so she went to someone who could give her the love I couldn't. Every year I get an email from him extolling her virtues. I love my V7, but if I could find the Velo's spiritual successor, with modern starting and reliability, I'd buy it like a shot.

[redrider90]

Beware, an improperly tuned Norton will cause some physical pain,with a quick launch while kicking it over.  Or so I'm told.

My 73 Ducati 750 GT came with it advanced somewhere about 5-10 degrees. Because the set up was done by used car mechanic in a small town Berliner shop he handed it over to me like that. Talk about a quick launch with all that pre-ignition. It took awhile to find out the specs and get it tuned right. Meanwhile I learned to slide my foot off the kick starter when I felt it pre-igniting.

[Rough Edge racing]

My 73 Ducati 750 GT came with it advanced somewhere about 5-10 degrees. Because the set up was done by used car mechanic in a small town Berliner shop he handed it over to me like that. Talk about a quick launch with all that pre-ignition. It took awhile to find out the specs and get it tuned right. Meanwhile I learned to slide my foot off the kick starter when I felt it pre-igniting.

I understand what you mean but pre ignition is actually igniting the fuel air mixture prematurely by hot spot and not the ignition spark...You had over advanced timing......10 degrees over advanced could cause a holed piston if the throttle was held open long enough in high gear..The old 750 Ducati's had no timing marks if I remember correctly...Timing was done by finding TDC and using a degree wheel, same as old British bikes... the standard full advance timing was 36-38 degrees, with 28 of that provided by the auto advance unit..Substituting softer advance springs gave sharper part throttle response , but could cause a bit of pinging.. I had owned a few 750 Ducati bevel drive twins over the years. The kick starter was a bit awkward but the engine always started on one kick..
  I had a 74 850 Commando with a hotter cam...When tuned properly is wasn't difficult to kick start provided you put some ass into it. Kick back can be induced by feeble kicking....The Norton was smooth above 2500 or so rpm but I never warmed up to handling of the bike...It was 10 years old when I got it and the Isolastic engine mounts may have deteriorated  needing  new rubber parts or shim adjustments . It felt hinged in the middle when pushed hard into turns...

[Lannis]

 ...It was 10 years old when I got it and the Isolastic engine mounts may have deteriorated  needing  new rubber parts or shim adjustments . It felt hinged in the middle when pushed hard into turns...

Well, if you consider it ... it IS hinged in the middle!  The frame and front end are one piece, and the engine and swingarm are attached to them via the rubber hinges.    But unlike the H1 Kawasakis to which that description is usually applied, it's designed to be hinged in the middle, and the hinge is supposed to be constrained to move in a way that doesn't detract from the bike's handling.

As you say, if the Isolastics are in good shape and adjusted, the handling should be as good as any BSA or Triumph, which is VERY good ....

Lannis