Author Topic: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners  (Read 497686 times)

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2014, 06:28:19 AM »
Quick Question I have gone from +20 on CO trim to -30 on CO trim and have noticed nothing in terms of a rough idle.  There is a quick change in RPM when I hit finish/save on the CO trim page.  The only other side effect I believe I have noticed is a hiccup when starting off idle. 

Stupid question, but you are clicking 'save' at each CO trim 'step'? By that I mean if you trim it down, it may not have immediate affect until after you clicked save.

If there is no significant change, I wonder if it's quite rich? As you trim down to a significant negative number, as it get smore lean you should note some surging.


Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2014, 07:39:56 AM »
I start with the trim a bit rich. Then go down a little at a time until I notice an idle drop. Then bump it back up richer until the idle speed returns and stop there.
The Quota being a different animal may like it a touch richer than that though.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Offline scra99tch

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2014, 09:28:46 AM »
If you've read other threads yeah bike is a lot rich.  I do click save notice a slight hesitant as the number is committed to memory but never had the idle drop.

Wayne I'll try what you suggested and report back sounds like that might work.
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2014, 10:42:33 AM »
The idle dip should be close to zero. +-20 maybe. Much outside that, and you may have other things going on.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2014, 10:42:33 AM »

Offline scra99tch

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2014, 11:25:34 AM »
Just did a test run.

CO Ended up being set to -100 with no apparent idle change ( I even went to -128 saved it and still nothing).  Went for a ride gunned it up a large hill and promptly shut off engine, checked plugs and they are looking good.  I am not getting my hopes up yet that this is the case.  When the bike cools and I take it for my short jaunts to and fro work I am suspecting this thing will hack and spit until fully warmed.  In that case maybe I could richen up the lower end of the Engine temp trim to compensate.

As to a possibility of there being a separate issue I cannot for the life of me think what it might be. 

As per Guzziology
Set my idle first and foremost to 1050RPM
Balance Throttle Body
Set TPS 2.1 375 +/- 15mv
Set CO

Manual does differ in that they want 1200RPM Idle
1.4 +/- .3 Degrees


Did I say this thing has always run rich? 
1974 Eldorado
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Tioli

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2014, 12:03:48 PM »
Thank you very much!

a noob...

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2014, 02:08:43 PM »
As per Guzziology
Set my idle first and foremost to 1050RPM
Balance Throttle Body
Set TPS 2.1 375 +/- 15mv
Set CO

Manual does differ in that they want 1200RPM Idle
1.4 +/- .3 Degrees


Did I say this thing has always run rich? 

My info shows 1.4 degrees. Does Guzziology want 2.1, and then lean the trim?
I assume the air filter is not plugged.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Offline scra99tch

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2014, 03:45:38 PM »
My info shows 1.4 degrees. Does Guzziology want 2.1, and then lean the trim?
I assume the air filter is not plugged.

That may very well be the route I want to take.  Might be on to something here stand by for testing. Won't get to look at the bike this weekend though off to AMerican Craft Brew Festival in Boston. 

Go Liver!
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Online Rich A

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2014, 12:55:07 PM »
I finally got around to getting a set of cables, downloading the software, etc. In a word: "Brilliant!"

Anyone want/need a set of VDST cables?

Rich A

Offline boatdetective

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2014, 06:27:21 AM »
 Beetle- THANK YOU. 
The PCV and map I bought from Todd was totally wasted money.  A generous member here sent me a great map for my 1200s and it runs much better- no more popping on overrun.

I didn't notice much of a change with CO adjustments no matter what I did. I'll try later. The biggest thing is that Guzzi diag and bettle's tutorial make me feel empowered to finally tune my bike.

Jonathan K
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Offline boatdetective

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2014, 06:28:41 AM »
...oh yeah-  can the tutorial be saved as a sticky? This is a very helpful thread.
Jonathan K
Marblehead, MA

1981 V50III "Gina"
2007 Griso 1100 "Bluto" (departed but not forgotten)
2003 EV "Lola" gone to the "Ridin' Realtor" in Peoria
2007 1200 Sport "Ginger"

"Who's the cat who won't cop out, when there's danger all about?"  -Isaac Hayes

Offline raul

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2014, 02:07:13 PM »
Anyone having any luck using Windows 8.1 with this?  I'm not.

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2014, 02:49:41 PM »
Anyone having any luck using Windows 8.1 with this?  I'm not.

Yes, works fine.
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Offline raul

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2014, 03:14:59 PM »
My problem appears to be (other than the usual ID 10 T problem) is drivers.  I can't seem to figure out how to get the drivers to install.

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2014, 04:26:20 PM »
My problem appears to be (other than the usual ID 10 T problem) is drivers.  I can't seem to figure out how to get the drivers to install.

If you are using the drivers that came with the cable, don't.

The latest drivers are executable. Just unzip and double click on the exe.

For latest drivers, download this: CLICKY




Offline raul

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2014, 04:41:03 PM »
I've unzipped it but can't find an exe anywhere.

Offline rboe

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2014, 04:45:41 PM »
Know where the unzipped files are saved, plug in the cable to the laptop and when the OS wants to install the drivers choose the option that YOU will tell the OS where to go - in this case, to the folder containing those files.

It will take it from there.
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Offline raul

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2014, 05:01:56 PM »
Okay, I think maybe that worked this time.  I'll hook up to the bike tomorrow to see if I have success.  Tired of messing with it today, but thank you, I think you helped me solve it.  The computer recognized the cable and I could see the drivers in another window.  Sooner or later...

Offline rdbandkab

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2014, 07:54:33 PM »
I'm in.   Just received my cabling today.

I'll be hoping to be rid of the 3500-4000 rpm vibes a.s.a.p.  (as well as some stalling I might experienced if I don't let the NTX warm up enough)

richy

Offline rdbandkab

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2014, 08:22:27 AM »
Thanks for all this info Mark!

Was able to read and save stock map from the Stelvio.

This is a basic howto for the GuzziDiag suite of tools. This howto will show you how to connect, read (backup) your existing map, write (flash) a new map and perform a TPS reset. This uses the Windows versions, but Mac & Linux versions function the same.


For the 5AM ECU, you will need the following software from the GuzziDiag page:

GuzziDiag

IAW5xReader

IAW5xWriter


For the 15M ECU you will need these:

GuzziDiag

IAW15xReader

IAW15xWriter



Each is a standalone program that works independently of each other and does not require any extra software.


« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 08:23:58 AM by rdbandkab »

Offline raul

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2014, 10:42:07 AM »
Still no luck getting this connected to my V7 Stone.  Drivers are loaded and I can find them in the device manager.  All looks good from the computer, but it just doesn't connect.  The led is lit on the cable.  Gotta be something simple I'm overlooking. 

Offline Waterbottle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2014, 05:27:30 PM »
Hi Raul,
I had all sorts of grief with the same sort of thing
In the end, I had 3 different versions of the FTDI driver on the laptop, thinking surely one of them must hook up ?
But - No. Kept getting a message the " the Name is in use " when trying to install the driver. I think windows was getting confused with the different drivers available.
So I used the "FTDI driver Uninstaller" and it deleted all of those drivers
Then loaded the latest FTDI driver V2.10.00 , Extracted the compressed file to wherever windows decided to put it.
Connected the cable clips  up to 12V ( so the laptop can see it as a device ? ) but not to laptop yet !
Then clicked on search for new hardware , and plugged in the cable assy.
Bingo new hardware found and installed.
Another issue was the Fiat 3 pin adapter that came wired incorrectly. It would hook up to guzzidiag but not the reader or writer. Pins 1 and 3 were the wrong way around.

All of this Info is in this topic and the Diagnosis topic, Paul Daytona , Beetle, Molly , Vasco all have provided some fantastic info on how to set all of this up
I would re-post the links but I have to many thumbs  ;D


 
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2012 Stelvio 8V
2009 Griso R  Track only
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If you Ride a Griso, You need Tyres with Gription

Offline raul

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2014, 08:53:25 PM »
Thanks, I'll look in the other thread.   ;-T

Tioli

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2014, 04:51:01 PM »
I have the cables from Centurion (TechnoResearch). Will they work for Guzzidiag or do I need to buy additionally?

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2014, 05:18:21 PM »
You'll have to buy the other cables. Just for grins I tried my Centurion cables way back when I first got into this stuff. No joy.

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2014, 06:06:11 PM »
Beetle - I looked over your recent post at some of the screens provided by Diag, and when I came to the screen of Griso maps, I had to ask myself ..... which map would I want?  Is there any documentation of these maps that describe what conditions they were designed to improve?  Once my Griso is off warranty (soon) I would consider using DucatiDiag GuzziDiag to download a new improved map, if I know what the improvements were intended to do.

BTW - thanks for your comments about my throttle balancing issues with my USA 2012 Griso 8vSE.  I went back in for a third time and rebalanced at road speed and idle, and reset the TPS, and also tightened up the TB boot clamp screws when the engine was warm (prior to balancing.)  The screws easily turned another 1/2 turn each.  Prior to today, each time I'd take the bike out and then recheck the balance with a manometer, it was different.  

After my rebalancing and tightening up the boot clamps today, I think I have her running nicely.  The bike felt flexible through all the gears.  The only issue I now notice is a very slight flat spot on part-throttle acceleration as I pass through the 2500-3000 rpm range.  I attribute this to stock mapping.  Any thoughts?

Regards,

Bob
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 10:08:23 AM by ohiorider »
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
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Offline Idontwantapickle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2014, 06:44:48 PM »
Thanks a lot! The screenshots are a great help.
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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2014, 06:50:19 PM »
Bob, if the TB boots were loose it would explain the inability to get reliable balance certainly.

The problem with the stock maps, especially the Griso ones, are that they are very rich in most places. Down low where the system is running closed loop the lambda adjustment leans it out, in fact it leans it out to the point that its running borderline too lean so it tends to feel harsh and vibratory. Once it goes open loop its just too rich and if you turn the lambda off its too rich all the way through. There is also the issue of the cylinders needing different fueling. The Griso due to its different length head pipes is articulately needy in this regard and the stock map really doesn't address this very well.

Once you get Guzidiag up and running you have nothing to loose by trying one of Mark's maps. Just save your current one before you overwrite it. If you don't like the new map you can simply re-install the factory one. There really is no downside.

Pete

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2014, 07:07:51 PM »
The only issue I now notice is a very slight flat spot on part-throttle acceleration as I pass through the 2500-3000 rpm range.  I attribute this to stock mapping.  Any thoughts?

Yes, a common complaint with the factory map. I found at those revs pootling through urban areas there was a lot of hunting. There's a bit of hole in the rev range around 3500-4500 and things only get good above 5000. Not to mention the poor economy.

I presume you've never had a map update? I find the 2230G803 map which is in all post 2010 Griso's to be quite pedestrian. If you want to stick with factory maps, I recommend the 68S map. It was never homogolated but is far superior the 03 map. If you want to try a non-factory map, PM me your email address and I will shoot you one that will transform your bike.


Offline Waterbottle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2014, 10:42:40 PM »
Beetle, I would love to try a map for my 09 Griso too if I may be so bold ?
I'm only too happy to contribute towards the development of this as I can see it would take countless hours of work to set this up.    :BEER: x lots
   A couple of questions........
Should the O2 sensor be removed if it's been turned off , Don't they get carbon'd up if not in use ?


2015 Griso SE Rosso
2012 Stelvio 8V
2009 Griso R  Track only
76 GT 750 Suzuki
If you Ride a Griso, You need Tyres with Gription

 

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