Author Topic: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners  (Read 554170 times)

Offline MorenoB

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1260 on: March 07, 2017, 02:13:24 AM »
Dear, beetle, pete roper and gelos,

many thanks for all the instant answers :-)

I've got a V7 MY2014 and it goes perfectly, so I'll ignore it  :thumb:
(anyway, next time I'll connect I'll also check under View>Actors :-)


pete roper

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1261 on: March 07, 2017, 03:54:54 AM »
 :thumb:

Offline alanp

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1262 on: March 17, 2017, 08:37:22 PM »
I have a new V7II.  The warm up period is annoying, and the bike also stumbles/sputters a bit on steady throttle.  So I would like to try the Beetle map.  I have read enough of these 43 pages to feel that:

This is WAY over my head.  It will takes me days, and I will almost certainly fail or screw something up.

Does changing the map affect the warranty?  Can I ask the dealer to do this for me?  It is either that or I need someone to point me to a simpler, more condensed set of instructions that is V7II specific because...what ECU do I have?  Lambda?  TPS?  Etc.
Niwot, Colorado
'08 1200 Sport - Black
'16 V7II Stone - Black
Previous Guzzis
'07 Griso, '07 Norge, '03 California SS, '02 California SS, '02 V11 Lemans,  '83 Lemans III, '77 Lemans

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1263 on: March 17, 2017, 11:42:55 PM »
Technically, changing the map voids warranty. If your dealer is a stickler for the rules don't ask.

The V7II has the MIU G3 ECU. You need to reset the autolearning parameters. You need to relearn the throttle if the TPS value changes. I can write a V7 only version. If I can get enthused.

If you can hold off for a bit, I am working on an improved cold start for the 1TB V7.

Wildguzzi.com

Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1263 on: March 17, 2017, 11:42:55 PM »

Offline alanp

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1264 on: March 18, 2017, 08:45:42 AM »
I can certainly hold off.  Am interested in improving the cold start so it would be worth the wait.  Thank you. 
Niwot, Colorado
'08 1200 Sport - Black
'16 V7II Stone - Black
Previous Guzzis
'07 Griso, '07 Norge, '03 California SS, '02 California SS, '02 V11 Lemans,  '83 Lemans III, '77 Lemans

ponti_33609

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1265 on: March 18, 2017, 08:47:28 AM »
I can certainly hold off.  Am interested in improving the cold start so it would be worth the wait.  Thank you.
FWIW- when you are ready it is very intuitive. You back up the old one (8minutes) and load the new.  Makes difference.


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Offline alanp

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1266 on: March 18, 2017, 09:00:24 AM »
FWIW- when you are ready it is very intuitive. You back up the old one (8minutes) and load the new.  Makes difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It sure is mind bogglingly complex sounding to me.  "Relearn the throttle", what does that mean?  If the TPS changes?  Why would it change?  Does it need to be reset?  If so, how?  To me, virtually every other word written in this thread sounds like jibberish.  I am sure I am making too much out of it, but it is a steep learning curve for me. 
Niwot, Colorado
'08 1200 Sport - Black
'16 V7II Stone - Black
Previous Guzzis
'07 Griso, '07 Norge, '03 California SS, '02 California SS, '02 V11 Lemans,  '83 Lemans III, '77 Lemans

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1267 on: March 18, 2017, 09:45:45 PM »
It sure is mind bogglingly complex sounding to me.  "Relearn the throttle", what does that mean? 

You are instructing the ECU to measure the TPS voltage and convert to a throttle butterfly angle reading.


Quote
If the TPS changes?  Why would it change? 


When you flash a new map, the interpreted value of the TPS can change. It's not hard coded into the ECU.


Quote
Does it need to be reset?  If so, how? 

To remove any confusion from yourself, think of the 'relearning the throttle' to be analogous to a TPS reset. Don't overthink it. Consider it a 'must do' when you flash a new map.



Quote
To me, virtually every other word written in this thread sounds like jibberish.  I am sure I am making too much out of it, but it is a steep learning curve for me. 


Yes you are overthinking it. It's not rocket science. Simply follow the howto and you can't go wrong. I have created a single throttle body V7 version in PDF format. I have added the download link to the first post in this thread.

pete roper

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1268 on: March 19, 2017, 01:06:58 AM »
Really, it's not difficult. As Beetle will tell you I'm a digital age Cro-magnon! If I can do it? Anybody can!

If you've managed to register on WG or any other web board? Using Guzzidiag is really no more complicated! Really!

If you were being asked to master Tunerpro or equivalent, or build your own map and fully understand the effects of all the correction tables? That would be different! Learning a few of the basics of 'How It Works' in relation to your bike is not a far step from understanding why you need air in your tyres or oil in your engine!

The only thing you have to fear is fear itself! (As someone, somewhere, once said )

Pete

Offline alanp

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1269 on: March 19, 2017, 10:29:27 AM »
You guys are very helpful and encouraging.  Thanks!  You almost have me convinced to try this, but I have a few more questions.
1.  Beetle, you say a couple of posts up that you have added a single TB V7 version.  Is this the improved cold start version you mentioned above that, or is that yet to come?  I will hold off for that one if it is still in development.
2.  You say above to consider resetting the TPS a "must do" when you flash a new map.  But back on page 1 I read:

NOTE: We do not reset the TPS on the V7/V7-II with the MIU G3 ECU
More info on the MIU G3 below.

So, you don't reset it, but you must reset it?  That does seem confusing.  However, reading further I THINK you are saying to reset it if it isn't between 1.0 and 1.2, but I am not sure.
Niwot, Colorado
'08 1200 Sport - Black
'16 V7II Stone - Black
Previous Guzzis
'07 Griso, '07 Norge, '03 California SS, '02 California SS, '02 V11 Lemans,  '83 Lemans III, '77 Lemans

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1270 on: March 19, 2017, 02:48:45 PM »
1.  Beetle, you say a couple of posts up that you have added a single TB V7 version.  Is this the improved cold start version you mentioned above that, or is that yet to come?  I will hold off for that one if it is still in development.


No! Its not a map, it's the condensed V7 specific GuzziDiag instructions you asked for


Quote
2.  You say above to consider resetting the TPS a "must do" when you flash a new map.  But back on page 1 I read:

So, you don't reset it, but you must reset it?  That does seem confusing.  However, reading further I THINK you are saying to reset it if it isn't between 1.0 and 1.2, but I am not sure.


Egads! At the risk of creating more questions than answers....

Try not to let the semantics get in the way and take this as read:

In the GuzziDiag program, there is no option to reset the TPS for a single throttle body V7. The only way to get the Throttle position value correct is to use the 'Throttle self-learning' function.

Understand?

ponti_33609

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1271 on: March 19, 2017, 03:16:06 PM »
You guys are very helpful and encouraging.  Thanks!  You almost have me convinced to try this, but I have a few more questions.
1.  Beetle, you say a couple of posts up that you have added a single TB V7 version.  Is this the improved cold start version you mentioned above that, or is that yet to come?  I will hold off for that one if it is still in development.
2.  You say above to consider resetting the TPS a "must do" when you flash a new map.  But back on page 1 I read:

So, you don't reset it, but you must reset it?  That does seem confusing.  However, reading further I THINK you are saying to reset it if it isn't between 1.0 and 1.2, but I am not sure.
There is a option on the program. You select to relearn. I did make me before the warranty was up. I figured that if I had a warranty issue I would reload the stock map. If you have issues I will give you my number and you can call me. The biggest issue O had was making sure I had the right drivers which Beetle will send you.


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pete roper

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1272 on: March 19, 2017, 04:12:53 PM »
There is a option on the program. You select to relearn. I did make me before the warranty was up. I figured that if I had a warranty issue I would reload the stock map. If you have issues I will give you my number and you can call me. The biggest issue O had was making sure I had the right drivers which Beetle will send you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, this was my recollection too, certainly it's there with PADS, thing is the factory sez never re-set the TPS after more than 1500km, (Again from memory!) but they don't say why.

The reason is that the crappy plastic cam on the butterfly spindle wears out, (Yes! By 1500km! What a POS!) so once that wear has occurred an accurate reset that won't upset other learned and non-learned parameters can't be gauranteed!

As has been said of many things the wonder isn't that it works well, it's that it works at all! The MUIG-3 really is a nasty, built down to a price, horror that really shouldn't be used on anything bigger than a moped!

Pete

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1273 on: March 19, 2017, 05:50:34 PM »
Sigh. I'm only going to say this ONCE MORE. When you have selected a single throttle body V7 variant or any MIU G3 model in the GuzziDiag preferences, YOU DO NOT GET THE OPTION TO RESET THE TPS IN THE ACTORS MENU. You get the THROTTLE SELF-LEARNING option.

For any other ECU you will get the TPS RESET option.

END



ponti_33609

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1274 on: March 19, 2017, 06:05:11 PM »
Sigh. I'm only going to say this ONCE MORE. When you have selected a single throttle body V7 variant or any MIU G3 model in the GuzziDiag preferences, YOU DO NOT GET THE OPTION TO RESET THE TPS IN THE ACTORS MENU. You get the THROTTLE SELF-LEARNING option.

For any other ECU you will get the TPS RESET option.

END
Yeah. What I mentioned... re-learn you select.  Again. This is a very easy procedure once you get all installed on your PC. Need to get the proper cables as well. I got mine off of eBay.


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pete roper

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1275 on: March 19, 2017, 06:51:47 PM »
Sigh. I'm only going to say this ONCE MORE. When you have selected a single throttle body V7 variant or any MIU G3 model in the GuzziDiag preferences, YOU DO NOT GET THE OPTION TO RESET THE TPS IN THE ACTORS MENU. You get the THROTTLE SELF-LEARNING option.

For any other ECU you will get the TPS RESET option.

END

OK. I believe you!  :grin: :grin:

Offline alanp

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1276 on: March 23, 2017, 10:41:36 AM »
OK.  I successfully read and saved my existing V7 map!  Or at least I got a .bin file on my computer.  Thanks everyone for your encouragement.  I think I can download the new map when it is ready. 
Niwot, Colorado
'08 1200 Sport - Black
'16 V7II Stone - Black
Previous Guzzis
'07 Griso, '07 Norge, '03 California SS, '02 California SS, '02 V11 Lemans,  '83 Lemans III, '77 Lemans

Offline waxi

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1277 on: April 04, 2017, 12:56:24 AM »
I've been messing around with maps again over the weekend. Can someone explain what kind of stuff ECU remembers that we need to reset autolearning parameters?

UPDATE: Found info on first page: ECU fuel trims
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 01:00:12 AM by waxi »
Moto Guzzi V7 II Special, 2015
Moto Guzzi Nevada, 1998
Tomos Automatik A3 ML, 1987, oldtimer

ponti_33609

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1278 on: April 04, 2017, 06:02:08 AM »
OK.  I successfully read and saved my existing V7 map!  Or at least I got a .bin file on my computer.  Thanks everyone for your encouragement.  I think I can download the new map when it is ready. 


Great work.  And while under warranty you can always throw your stock map back before you bring in for any service.

Offline waxi

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1279 on: April 04, 2017, 06:43:00 AM »
Great work.  And while under warranty you can always throw your stock map back before you bring in for any service.

When you have already mentioned... is it possible to edit the date when map was uploaded? I guess this can be tricky regarding warranty.
Moto Guzzi V7 II Special, 2015
Moto Guzzi Nevada, 1998
Tomos Automatik A3 ML, 1987, oldtimer

Offline alanp

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1280 on: April 05, 2017, 10:02:34 AM »
OK, I am having trouble loading the new map.  Hooked everything up, opened the writer program, clicked the ... button.  The screen that comes up is the correct screen, but there are no files shown to select.  Also, the box to the left of "files" box has some stuff in it, but it is not a directory of my computer.  So I don't know how to find the map to load???
Niwot, Colorado
'08 1200 Sport - Black
'16 V7II Stone - Black
Previous Guzzis
'07 Griso, '07 Norge, '03 California SS, '02 California SS, '02 V11 Lemans,  '83 Lemans III, '77 Lemans

ponti_33609

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1281 on: April 05, 2017, 12:36:33 PM »
OK, I am having trouble loading the new map.  Hooked everything up, opened the writer program, clicked the ... button.  The screen that comes up is the correct screen, but there are no files shown to select.  Also, the box to the left of "files" box has some stuff in it, but it is not a directory of my computer.  So I don't know how to find the map to load???

Hi - Beetle will chime in.  If I understand correctly I had this issue as well.  I think you may need to install some drivers based on the operating system you are using (Window's 10 etc).  He pointed me to the proper drivers to install.  Odd that you backed up the original map though.  Not sure if mine was able to do that or not before I hit the driver issue.

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1282 on: April 05, 2017, 02:59:54 PM »
If you could save your stock map, then drivers are installed.

Make sure you have unzipped the downloaded file. Ensure you are using the forrect writer program. IAWMIUG3WRITER. Writers for other ECU's will not see the file.

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1283 on: April 05, 2017, 04:42:54 PM »
Guys, Alan is using a Mac. I'm not Mac savvy. Can anyone help him out?

twowings

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1284 on: April 05, 2017, 05:42:39 PM »
I seem to remember a Mac user commenting in this very thread how he got it to work...43 pages is a LOT to look through, I know...

I found this from 'sib'...maybe he's still uses Mac? 

"I'm using El Capitan OSX 10.11.1 beta.  Guzzidiag (0.47) works fine for me ('16 Stone), but it didn't until I installed the FTDI USB serial driver (2.3) off the Guzzidiag site.  I used Guzzidiag to determine my ECU flash version (it's 4533V740).  I don't intend to update it until I see reports of a newer one that works better.  So far, the updates seem to do more harm than good"
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 05:46:01 PM by twowings »

Offline alanp

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1285 on: April 05, 2017, 05:49:42 PM »
I am using the correct writer.  The .bin file shows up on my MAC and seems to be a good file - permissions say "you and read and write".  The problem is when I open the writer program and press the ... button, the window that pops up (the file search screen) does not show files.  It does not show what is on my hard drive - none of it.  The file window is blank, and the window to the left of that (which shows the hard drive directory in the examples) shows something, but it is not a directory of files on my computer. 
Niwot, Colorado
'08 1200 Sport - Black
'16 V7II Stone - Black
Previous Guzzis
'07 Griso, '07 Norge, '03 California SS, '02 California SS, '02 V11 Lemans,  '83 Lemans III, '77 Lemans

Offline alanp

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1286 on: April 05, 2017, 06:10:05 PM »
2013 V7 stone map updated successfully!

With the help of this thread, and other threads on this forum, and pm's from Beetle, I have updated my 2013 V7 Stone with the 352BV738 map. I used Guzidiag V0.47, IAWMIUG3Reader V0.04, and IAWMIUG3Writer V0.02. The apps I used are the Mac versions on a MacBook Pro with OSX 10.11.5.

I followed the tutorial at the start of this thread - back 35 pages. I had a couple of stumbles, but Beetle picked me up and helped me along.

First, when I tried to find the new map .bin file (I had placed on my desktop) with the writer app open, I could not locate the file. I scrolled down the list in the writer's far left window and navigated to my desktop, but when I opened the desktop by clicking on the arrow to the file's left, I saw some of my desktop files listed, but not the .bin map files (not the new one nor the old one I had saved).

I solved this by clicking on the name (the text) "desktop" instead of the arrow. This caused a bunch of files to be displayed in the middle (files) window of the writer app. I chose the new map and followed the prompts to load the new map to the bike.

When I opened Guzzidiag to set the TPS, I connected to the bike and followed the tutorial steps, but I could not see a TPS Reset option. A patient and non-judgemental Beetle explained:

"First up, we don't reset the TPS on a V7. In the 'measurements' screen, select 'Throttle' in one of the drop-downs.

If the 'Throttle' reads 0.9 or 1.0, you only need to reset the auto learning parameters.

If the reading is anything other than 0.9 or 1.0, then (and only then), follow these steps:

1) In the top menu, go to View -> Actors
2) In any of the drop down menus select "Reset autolearning parameters", then click start
3) In any of the drop down menus select "Throttle self-learning", then click start.
3) In the top menu, go back to View -> Measurements
4) In any of the drop down menus select "Throttle", the value should now be 0.9 or 1.0.

Done!"

Done, indeed. The only thing I had left to do was to click on the donation button.

Thanks again.

Stephen

I found the above from a MAC user on page 35.  In the red text above, he is discussing the area where I am having trouble.  In the writer left file search window, I see some stuff, but it isn't files.  This guy at least found files there, although he had trouble finding what he wanted.  But I don't have any "files" in my writer file search windows.  There is a list of stuff there that is not files, or file directories.  The writer doesn't seem to be "looking" at the computer for files.  ?
Niwot, Colorado
'08 1200 Sport - Black
'16 V7II Stone - Black
Previous Guzzis
'07 Griso, '07 Norge, '03 California SS, '02 California SS, '02 V11 Lemans,  '83 Lemans III, '77 Lemans

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1287 on: April 05, 2017, 06:15:13 PM »
Have you placed the GuzziDiag software on the desktop?

Online Tom H

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1288 on: April 05, 2017, 06:23:43 PM »
As well as your .bin file?

Or did you save it to somewhere else on your MAC?

To be clear, you did follow his solution of clicking on the text, not the arrow.

I'm not a MAC user, so I'm not of much help on how to use it.

Good luck!
Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo V1000
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
1953 Triumph 6T (one day it will be on the road!)

Offline alanp

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #1289 on: April 05, 2017, 08:24:23 PM »
Good news and bad news, and another plea for help.  Hopefully, some of this will be helpful to other Mac users.

First, the good.  I can't fully retrace what happened, but I got the map loaded.  The "stuff" in the left hand column WAS a computer directory of sorts, but its appearance and organization were not recognizable by me and looked nothing like the screenshots on page 1 of this thread (which look familiar).  The other strange thing is I had done some clicking around in there earlier today and found very little.  I think maybe I wasn't clicking on the right place, the arrows, but eventually, I clicked on something that showed me a full list of the applications on my computer so I knew it was looking at my hardrive.  I kept searching and finally got to my desktop (buried two layers deep in the "files" list under "Users/alanpratt02"), and the map file appeared in the middle window.  I loaded it!

The bad news.  I now can't figure out how to relearn the throttle.  Guzzidiag won't connect to the bike.  Beetle has told me to verify I am connected to right com port and to select the right ECU in PREFERENCES, but I can't find PREFERENCES anywhere.  Anybody have any help on that?

I do not have any other related programs open (reader or writer).
The cables are hooked up.
Guzzidiag shows the wrong ECU which I don't know how to change.
When I go to "FILE/CONNECT", the connect is grayed out, meaning it is not a selectable option. 

Don't know how to proceed. 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 08:25:05 PM by alanp »
Niwot, Colorado
'08 1200 Sport - Black
'16 V7II Stone - Black
Previous Guzzis
'07 Griso, '07 Norge, '03 California SS, '02 California SS, '02 V11 Lemans,  '83 Lemans III, '77 Lemans

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