Author Topic: Dropping front end.  (Read 8319 times)

wallooner

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Dropping front end.
« on: June 10, 2015, 07:23:20 PM »
This is my fit ever post to the forum.  I recently acquired a 2004 EV. I read a road test that indicated that dropping the front end by 1to 11/2 inches, Improves handling and lowers the center of gravity a bit.  This is done by raising the front forks in the triple tree yoke.  Has anyone out there tried this and what are the pros and cons to this idea.  Thanks

Offline Aaron D.

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2015, 09:19:30 PM »
I've done it on a few Guzzis, it will QUICKEN the steering and reduce stability a bit. If you feel your bike steers too slowly (and your tire pressure is good) you may want to try, it isn't hard to do, or reverse.

It also reduces cornering clearance, again the EV has a good amount anyway.

Finally, it makes the foot on the ground a little flatter. I did it on a bike that was lowered in the rear with short shocks.

oldbike54

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2015, 09:26:16 PM »
 Isn't 10 to 13 MMs about the recommended range for Tonti framed Guzzis ?

  Dusty

Offline wavedog

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2015, 09:49:03 PM »
I did this on my Jackal. Followed GuzziSteves recommendation. No negatives on this. I lowered the front and raised the rear a little by adjusting the rear shocks and what a difference. It handles a whole lot better. Much better high speed stability. Its solid at a hundred and it doesn't get blown around as much on the interstate with all the truck turbulence. It arcs thru curves very nicely with easy side to side transitions. Doesn't quicken the steering enough to be twitchy. It is a simple cheap mod that improves the bikes handling. For what its worth I give it a solid 4.0 recommendation.

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2015, 09:49:03 PM »

Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2015, 10:15:03 PM »
I did this on my Jackal. Followed GuzziSteves recommendation. No negatives on this. I lowered the front and raised the rear a little by adjusting the rear shocks and what a difference. It handles a whole lot better. Much better high speed stability. Its solid at a hundred and it doesn't get blown around as much on the interstate with all the truck turbulence. It arcs thru curves very nicely with easy side to side transitions. Doesn't quicken the steering enough to be twitchy. It is a simple cheap mod that improves the bikes handling. For what its worth I give it a solid 4.0 recommendation.

 :1:  But done on a hopped up small block. Made the sump parallel to the ground. It's lowered a good bit up front and raised slightly in the rest. WORLDS of difference and planted on the road at speeds. NO instability. Try it.
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Online balvenie

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2015, 10:21:32 PM »
I lowered mine 10mm and set the (non standard) Ikon shocks to the heaviest preload but handling was not improved.
Only heavier forks springs fixed the head shake :grin:
Oz
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2015, 10:51:28 PM »
I did this on my Jackal. Followed GuzziSteves recommendation. No negatives on this. I lowered the front and raised the rear a little by adjusting the rear shocks and what a difference. It handles a whole lot better. Much better high speed stability.

I like a quick steering bike too, but dropping the front doesn't normally increase high speed stability.  I won't argue with the better handling part though.
When the Brussels sprout fails to venture from its lair, it is time to roll a beaver up a grassy slope.

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2015, 12:08:37 AM »
Hi there!

Fellow EV owner here.

I'd go with the more conservative numbers to start and ease into the experiment.  25mm (1 inch) is a lot of drop, and each mm you lower it affects the steering geometry.  If you start too low you could develop a sudden rash on the road test before you get a sense of control.  It's a lot of bike to get surprised by.

There are other ways to get that feel from the bike without compromising your rake and trail angles.  Try more narrow tires, higher tire pressures, shock preload (study up on how the EV adjustable dampers work) and more narrow handlebars will all resemble the feel of lower forks. 

A few mm of drop isn't going to do shit for your center of gravity, I don't care what they say.  If it really concerns you, put a 5# bag of flour below where you want the center of gravity to be and go for a ride.  If you feel it sloshing around, check your wheel bearings.   :wink:

The EV is designed as a touring sled.  I gross mine out at 1200#+ and hit the road.  With side and top bags loaded and any sort of fairing your center of gravity becomes an airman's weight and balance calculation.  Add a passenger and you're a buick.  It's not intended as a sport bike (although I do dump my bags and ride it sporty).  It's a long distance runner with sporty tendencies.


Offline krglorioso

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2015, 12:51:37 AM »
My '04 LeSabre is not amused by such references.

Ralph
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Kentktk

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2015, 01:09:19 AM »
It`s too bad Guzzi doesn`t have a rear ride height adjuster. 2 minutes turning the turnbuckle and your good to try multiple settings easily.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 01:12:57 AM by Kentktk »

Offline not-fishing

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2015, 08:51:02 AM »
When was the last time the headset was greased?

I was amazed at the difference it made with my Griso.

I now get minor head shakes on bumpy sweepers at speed which is fine.

remember the old Chinese proverb "you always get the Monkeys paw"
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Offline mtiberio

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2015, 09:02:45 AM »
On my CalVin, I measured 15mm as the max you can raise the fork tubes. Otherwise you risk having the fork brace smack the lower tripleclamp at full bottoming.

see:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=75122.131
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2015, 11:05:58 AM »
Welcome to WG.. lots of knowledgeable people here. Nice scooter you have there, btw. As mentioned above don't even think about an inch or an inch and a half.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline redrider90

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2015, 11:41:45 AM »
Isn't 10 to 13 MMs about the recommended range for Tonti framed Guzzis ?

  Dusty

I agree.
Phew 1 1/2" is an awful lot. I dropped my Mille 12 mm (1/2') and noticed a big difference in sharper faster leaning on slower (< 50 MPH) curves.  The dealer told me do NOT drop it more that 12mm or I get have major handling problems. 
Red 90 Mille GT

Kentktk

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2015, 01:36:10 PM »
Drop it too far and your bottom triple will hit the fender and possibly bend it into the tire on the next big bump you hit with a not so pleasant result.

Offline Dilliw

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2015, 01:49:50 PM »
Welcome.  My EV is at 12mm as set by the previous owner some 10 years ago.  I can't compare it other than to say it works fine.

I've also run the 110/80 front tire.  It's great on the EV and you can tell a big difference over the 110/90 during corner turn in.  With the 12mm drop and the 110/80 the front end will get light around 85mph or so. 
George Westbury
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Offline Tom

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2015, 02:17:30 PM »
I'd start with the basics.  It's been touched on by Dave, maybe your tire air pressure may need adjusting.  I'd figure out what you want to accomplish first.  How big are you?  Weight and height?  Are you adjusting for quicker steering because you do a lot of mountain riding?  Where do you live.  Do you use all the techniques for riding and turning?  May just be a change in technique.  Change handle bars out?  If your bike has a steering damper.  Maybe loosening it up.

Start with raising your air pressure on your tires.  The recommended air pressures don't work for me.  I usually will check after an hours ride and raise to 2lbs. of max that's on the sidewall. 

From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

Offline Tom

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2015, 02:30:33 PM »
One way clockwise and the other way counter-clockwise. :kiss:
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

Offline redrider90

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2015, 04:06:20 PM »
I'd start with the basics.  It's been touched on by Dave, maybe your tire air pressure may need adjusting.  I'd figure out what you want to accomplish first.  How big are you?  Weight and height?  Are you adjusting for quicker steering because you do a lot of mountain riding?  Where do you live.  Do you use all the techniques for riding and turning?  May just be a change in technique.  Change handle bars out?  If your bike has a steering damper.  Maybe loosening it up.

Start with raising your air pressure on your tires.  The recommended air pressures don't work for me.  I usually will check after an hours ride and raise to 2lbs. of max that's on the sidewall.


Many years ago I lived about a mile from a guy who ran a little private BMWer shop out of his garage. He took a bike out for a test ride and wiped out on a curve that he had taken everyday that was just a mile from his shop. He forgot to check the tire pressure after the bike had been sitting while he did a rebuild on the motor. After wrecking it and fracturing his clavicle he checked the pressure in the front tire. It was 20#s. He had no control and ran right off the road.
Red 90 Mille GT

Offline Tom

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2015, 05:14:27 PM »
Y'ep.  Sidewalls flexed more than they should have.
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2015, 08:02:34 PM »
Funny you mentioned that, Harvey...  a few days ago I was riding my trails in the woods on my mountain bike and came close to missing a downhill curve and plowing into a tree.  Wondering what was going on, I felt my tires, and the front one was way down in pressure.  I pumped it back up, and I guess the Slime that's in the tube fixed the leak, because it's holding now.
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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2015, 10:01:40 AM »


Dropped 1.25"
To be fair these aren't stock forks so not sure how they compare in length to stock, but this on my Super Lario and it handles and tracks superbly with no twitchiness. I have to believe it's also partly why it's not affected by side winds. It's not my flat slab bike but I did a highway run last week somewhere and it's simply a rock how planted and unwavering it is.
Go down a little and see what comes of it for yourself. I only went by the visual with my sump and perhaps I lucked out, though my friend did the same with how V11 sport (shorter wheelbase than V11 lemans) and also found it less twitchy. You don't know til you try it. Can always go back.
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Kentktk

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2015, 01:00:30 PM »
That`s useless information if the forks are longer than stock. Measure them up.

Online NCAmother

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2015, 02:26:36 PM »


Dropped 1.25"
To be fair these aren't stock forks so not sure how they compare in length to stock, but this on my Super Lario and it handles and tracks superbly with no twitchiness. I have to believe it's also partly why it's not affected by side winds. It's not my flat slab bike but I did a highway run last week somewhere and it's simply a rock how planted and unwavering it is.
Go down a little and see what comes of it for yourself. I only went by the visual with my sump and perhaps I lucked out, though my friend did the same with how V11 sport (shorter wheelbase than V11 lemans) and also found it less twitchy. You don't know til you try it. Can always go back.
very cool!  was the rear lowered as well?

Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2015, 02:59:20 PM »
That`s useless information if the forks are longer than stock. Measure them up.
About 1/4" longer than stock.
No, I slightly raised the back end around 5 -8 mm
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 03:01:24 PM by kevdog3019 »
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Kentktk

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2015, 05:52:46 PM »
Actually that measurement has to be from the top of the threaded part of the tube ( not the cap ) to the middle of the spindle (axle ) hole

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2015, 06:08:06 PM »
That length changes.  At what point of extension/compression do you make that measurement?

Kentktk

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2015, 08:00:26 PM »
Same sag point should be adequate. It could get rather technical with spring rates , unladen or laden or if the forks have a leading axle. It can really be a Microsoft mess to figure out exactly.  :grin:

father guzzi obrian

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2015, 09:25:46 PM »
I raised the tubes on my Cal SS, same frame and geo, it handled quicker and was perfectly stable, only way to go in the twisties

Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Dropping front end.
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2015, 11:02:11 PM »
Actually that measurement has to be from the top of the threaded part of the tube ( not the cap ) to the middle of the spindle (axle ) hole
Yes, exactly!

The front end weight of the two bikes is about identical (same damn bikes) so compression is close. If you want to split hairs you can, but the pic shows I brought them up through a good inch and a half. Make it what you must but you can't argue I brought them up at least "some". Disclaimer: I'm NOT suggesting anybody drop their forks this much!  I'm simply telling you what works for THIS bike with these forks and rear suspension.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 11:11:47 PM by kevdog3019 »
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