Author Topic: Lane Splitting  (Read 17207 times)

Offline Tom

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #60 on: August 29, 2016, 07:24:31 PM »
 :1:  on the ferries.
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Offline ITSec

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2016, 07:26:26 PM »

The U.S situation will change slowly when urban congestion gets so bad that "other" solutions will need enactment.  Putting a young American in a car with unfettered use does not help the problem.  Tiered licensing and price of vehicles/insurance will also have a big influence on how Americans view motorcyclists.  It will change with time.


An interesting phenomenon is that many urban millenials and post-millenials are showing very little interest in owning a car, or even having a driver's license. There is a certain amount of nervousness in the boardrooms of auto manufacturers concerning sales to the new generation of uninterested customers.
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2016, 08:42:48 PM »
Since line cutting has become a topic in this thread  -
I consider going to the front at traffic lights bad form, maybe unless the line was several lights long.
But here, in ferry lines it's expected that bikes go to the front. Do you have the same practice in the US?

Yes, the ferries in Alaska, Yukon, and Washington INSIST the bikes be loaded/unloaded first -- right after the pedestrians.  If you're late for the queue they get annoyed that you're mixed up with the cars.  They want to keep an eye on us.   :angel:  Even though it's the rules, I feel very self-conscious riding between lines of traffic that have been there for maybe an hour or more, headed to the front of the line where I'm guaranteed space on the next boat out.  It's got a lot to do with the 'no cuts in line' norm.  On the big Alaska and Canada ferries we have our own staging area in the parking lot and our own parking lot on the car deck.  Again, ideally first in/first out, but it's less of a mess when the bikes queue late because they have a large area of their own.  But this is all happening in the staging area and parking lots of a maritime facility, not an interstate highway, and it's under the direction of staff and crew.







As has been mentioned, we're conditioned to be pissed off by line cutting, and it's a common bully tactic to shove oneself ahead of someone else to show contempt and domination, which causes additional friction when it happens on the road.  So that's a perception problem to overcome, and like some of this other social upheaval going on right now, it will take some time to adjust to.  Or think about it like the introduction of roundabouts in areas that don't know how to use them -- it could take a full driving generation to get used to it.

The aggressive NASCAR approach to driving is a separate issue, although I'd expect the NASCAR type to be the one most objecting to a motorcycle taking cuts in line.  These idiots drive by NASCAR norms and treat all traffic the same -- and bikes are just traffic.

But as I've always said, it takes a clear law to clarify it.  Just like there's no LAW saying you can't cut into line (the standard bully response to "hey -- you're taking cuts!"), but it's clearly understood, there's been no LAW in CA about lane splitting.  But to the cager, it's clearly understood.  Personally I wanted the issue settled for this reason and didn't care much which way they went.  Now it's been clarified.  It will be nice to have the option.

Yep , our generation has a hard time accepting this fact , but the age of cars is probably winding down .

 Dusty

Our generation had interesting cars to choose from.  Todays cars are literally marketed by gerbils and brag on innovations that distance the guy behind the wheel from his driving.  When a 'cartoon' gerbil makes your lack of interaction with the car a selling point, what's going to be interesting about it?

If I get another car it will probably be from the 60s.  The only question is do I want to buy it already done, or do I want to barn find it and do it myself.  I have zero interest in post CAT automobiles.

Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2016, 11:41:47 PM »
Rk, since there's nothing about your MC rig narrow enough to allow you to split lanes, I'm surprised you even have an opinion on this subject other than you may be jealous other bikers can do it and you can't.   :huh:  Even bikers w/fat saddlebags can't split lanes due to their MCs width.

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2016, 11:41:47 PM »

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2016, 12:23:49 AM »
I guess you'd be wrong on all counts then, Wayne.

Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2016, 01:05:45 AM »
I guess you'd be wrong on all counts then, Wayne.



Do you have a trike & a 2 wheeled MC?  If so, then as you say I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 01:09:20 AM by Arizona Wayne »

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2016, 01:16:57 AM »





Offline blackcat

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2016, 05:30:30 AM »
An interesting phenomenon is that many urban millenials and post-millenials are showing very little interest in owning a car, or even having a driver's license. There is a certain amount of nervousness in the boardrooms of auto manufacturers concerning sales to the new generation of uninterested customers.

Sooner or later they are going to move to the burbs and need a car.

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Offline sanddweller

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2016, 07:41:43 AM »
Here in France drivers will almost put themselves into a ditch to LET you pass them. 

If you are behind a car on a normal road or a motorway they will even make room in their own lane to let you pass - even if you don't want to, or are travelling at the same speed and haven't shown any intent / interest in passing. 

UK is same as US - they'd rather put you IN the ditch than let you past.  These are the two extremes that I have experienced, with most countries in Europe somewhere in between.

I don't know if there is some presumption of guilt if a car driver collides with a m/c over here - but they are VERY bike aware. All you do is 'kick a leg' to show your appreciation.

I found the same thing riding and driving in France a couple of years ago. The road manners on the French roads, are generally brilliant. Not only to bikes but to other road users.  Keeping to the 'slow' lane, making room for merging vehicles, letting other vehicles pass. I was pleasantly surprised.
Even on the congested ring road around Paris, the lanes of cars left wide gaps between to allow bikes to pass thru with relative ease.

Here in Australia, most states have recently legalised "Filtering" - generally, moving between lanes (moving in the same direction)of stopped or slow-moving traffic.  Max speed 30kmph (~18mph).  It's working pretty well, and car drivers getting used to it will take time, as expected.
Pretty sensible legislation really, and specifically to make Lane Splitting ( faster than 30 kmph) illegal...

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2016, 10:17:47 AM »
Sooner or later they are going to move to the burbs and need a car.

http://www.curbed.com/2016/6/21/11956516/millennial-first-time-home-trends-suburbs

 Maybe BC , although I will wager that many of these folks will work from home . The world is changing , as it always is . Heck , in another 30 years the promise of flying cars might even come true,although my guess is we will go back to horses or forward to large vacuum tubes  :shocked:

 Dusty

Offline LowRyter

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2016, 10:44:30 AM »
I found the same thing riding and driving in France a couple of years ago. The road manners on the French roads, are generally brilliant. Not only to bikes but to other road users.  Keeping to the 'slow' lane, making room for merging vehicles, letting other vehicles pass. I was pleasantly surprised.
Even on the congested ring road around Paris, the lanes of cars left wide gaps between to allow bikes to pass thru with relative ease.

Here in Australia, most states have recently legalised "Filtering" - generally, moving between lanes (moving in the same direction)of stopped or slow-moving traffic.  Max speed 30kmph (~18mph).  It's working pretty well, and car drivers getting used to it will take time, as expected.
Pretty sensible legislation really, and specifically to make Lane Splitting ( faster than 30 kmph) illegal...


Great point.  Legal Lane Splitting would cause car drivers to improve road manners and improve safety as well as efficiency. 

The short term learning curve would be the opposite.   :violent1:
John L 
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Offline Mark West

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2016, 10:49:53 AM »
Now that it's legal and the CHP will decide on the rules of how you can lane split, I wonder if people will start following the rules and whether the CHP will enforce them. Currently very little lane splitting I see would be legal under the original proposed limits and I've never seen or heard of anyone ever getting a ticket for unsafe lane splitting. I guess we'll see.
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Offline pebra

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2016, 02:00:13 PM »
Even bikers w/fat saddlebags can't split lanes due to their MCs width.

Eh? Fat saddlebags don't protrude more than handlebars.
Go ahead and split lanes, it's just a mental thing.

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Offline Tom H

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #73 on: August 30, 2016, 05:23:53 PM »
Eh? Fat saddlebags don't protrude more than handlebars.
Go ahead and split lanes, it's just a mental thing.

I carefully work through traffic on my '04 Cali EV Touring with it's large bags. Just have to wait at times to get an opening wide enough.

Not sure if this has been mentioned. In Cali, to  the best of my memory, lane splitting has never been illegal. I don't remember it being legal either. If a cop wanted to give you a ticket for lane splitting in an unsafe manner it would have been for reckless or unsafe driving.

I do remember that if you were to hit another vehicle while splitting weather your fault or not, you were at fault. The only possible exemption would have been with witnesses that clearly stated the vehicle intentionally pulled into you.

In stop and go traffic it has been accepted to work your way through the lanes in a "safe" manner. Excessive speed or unsafe maneuver could get you pulled over. I have seen bikes in stop and go doing probably 40-50mph. I don't go quite that fast, and maybe not fast enough as once I was minding my own business working my way along ( not paying much attention whats behind me, to busy looking in front) I hear the whoop of a siren behind me. Aw crud, getting pulled over!! Well no!!! He wanted to go faster than I was going so he got me out of the way. LOL!!!

In the recent past, I have seen more and more drivers move out of the way if they can. As mentioned before, don't know if it's to be nice or keep from getting scraped by the bike? Maybe they ride on the weekend?

One last thing. For those of you that have not split lanes on a regular basis and think it can be great way to get through, it can be, but it can be VERY dangerous! It requires you to pay attention to everything around you. Pay attention to how drivers are moving in their lanes before you get to them.

If this new law stuff gets the ball rolling to make splitting legal in your state, great!!! Just be careful!!!!

Tom
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Offline Tom

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #74 on: August 30, 2016, 05:45:34 PM »
It takes more concentration than a cruise ride.  Your eyes should be constantly moving to input everything in your immediate area of riding.  Side and rear mirrors give great clues.  A quick toot on your horns and a thank you wave doesn't hurt if they move over to accommodate you.  Intense riding if you do it for any distance.  Especially on the 405.  Older highway on narrower lanes for traffic.
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #75 on: August 30, 2016, 06:46:34 PM »
if you have those big HB JR's on the back, you better be careful.  I have few long scratches on mine just leaving the garage.
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Offline Zinfan

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #76 on: August 31, 2016, 12:10:47 PM »
I've done lane splitting in the LA/SD area several times and the drivers there seem to be aware and give me space to get though, I like to give a hand wave as I go by (once did a high five with a kid who stuck his hand out the window when he saw me coming).  I've done it on my Stelvio with bags attached, as stated your handlebars are at least as wide as the bags, no problems.  I've only run into stop and go traffic up in the Bay area once (don't actually ride there that often) and the drivers didn't give me the space I get down south. 

I live in a less populated area that rarely sees stop and go traffic so when it happens the drivers are not as friendly (or just unaware of what a bike is doing) so I take even more care splitting lanes and often won't do it as the traffic jam is likely only for a mile or two.
 

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #77 on: August 31, 2016, 12:51:23 PM »

Here in Australia, most states have recently legalised "Filtering" - generally, moving between lanes (moving in the same direction)of stopped or slow-moving traffic.  Max speed 30kmph (~18mph).  It's working pretty well, and car drivers getting used to it will take time, as expected.
Pretty sensible legislation really, and specifically to make Lane Splitting ( faster than 30 kmph) illegal...

That's brilliant, allows Lane Splitting at a reasonable speed
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Offline Scud

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #78 on: August 31, 2016, 06:28:20 PM »
The Australian rule seems reasonable. Although my experience in California is that the average lane-split speed is currently quite a bit higher.

My splitting speed is probably slightly above the average for lane splitters. My internal speed-rules are to go maybe 10-20 mph faster than traffic (depending on conditions). On the freeway, I won't split if it's moving at a good pace - if I can go 40 on the freeway, I'll stay in my lane. I don't do it on the freeway much anymore (because I enjoy a short commute).

I used to be one of the fast-splitters: honed my skills when I commuted from Orange to Pacific Palisades for a while (50 miles each way, right through the heart of Los Angeles). In retrospect, I was taking too much risk, and I hope that clear guidelines will slow down some other "young guns" - till now it's been the unregulated "wild west." Yee haw.
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Offline 1stgarry

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2016, 08:39:53 AM »
I have to disagree with what someone posted earlier.....'UK is same as US - they'd rather put you IN the ditch than let you past'.
Been riding for over 40 years in the UK and although the roads get more and more congested each year, most drivers seem to realise that PTW are part of the solution and not the problem, and will happily move over to let you past.  This commonly happens when filtering or overtaking.  I will always wave my thanks when someone does that for me, and in the hope that other motorists that didn't give me space will think about it the next time a bike wants to get past.
Good manners cost nothing.

Re the comment about motorists in France nearly leaving the road in order to give passing room, I agree.  It surprised the heck out of me the first few times it happened!!   But it is actually quite easy to understand.  Most French motorists started life on the road on mopeds, so they understand about why we ride bikes and the advantages to us and them.  This then feeds on to more road users converting to PTW, and the congestion problems just keep continuing to improve.

I was in Paris in June, and it is incredible the amount of scooters and mopeds (but not so many 'proper' bikes) there are.  Plus, the authorities allow line-splitting and allocate specific areas for bike parking.
Also, just come back from Sorrento in Italy, and if it wasn't for the vast hordes of mopeds and scooters, the roads would be gridlocked.  Like France, they start on PTWs from an early age so it is a natural way for families, workers etc to get about.

Mind you, it's damned scary watching them weaving in and out of traffic, just wearing their day to day clothes - nothing protective bar a crash helmet - and often in shorts and t-shirts in the hotter climates.  But cars and PTWs seem to understand each other, and have tolerance for each other.  No-one gets angry at being passed or when someone cuts in front.  That's just the way it is.  They use the horn for what it is intended - to let other road users know they are there - rather than to castigate!

The UK seems like it is starting to understand this, and I'm no expert, but it sounds like it may take a generation or two for a change of mind-set for US drivers before things change.

Offline Johncolleary

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #80 on: September 01, 2016, 11:09:33 AM »
I was very impressed with the drivers in New Zealand when I went in February. Very aware and pulled over whenever possible.  Also riding a few years ago on the Isle Of Mann found that the people love motorcycles.  Of course that is a huge part of the economy.  I have been splitting lanes in LA area for years and have had very few close calls, mostly due to people on cell phones and totally unaware.
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oldbike54

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #81 on: September 01, 2016, 11:22:15 AM »
 1stgarry , what is a PTW ? Powered two wheeler maybe ?

 Dusty

Offline 1stgarry

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #82 on: September 01, 2016, 11:25:28 AM »
Yup, Powered Two Wheels.

oldbike54

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #83 on: September 01, 2016, 11:29:23 AM »
Yup, Powered Two Wheels.

 New one on me , so is a bicycle an UTW ?

 Dusty

Offline O

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #84 on: September 01, 2016, 11:37:03 AM »
New one on me , so is a bicycle an UTW ?

 Dusty

Don't be silly.  A bicycle is also a PTW - Pedalled Two Wheels.  :tongue:
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oldbike54

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #85 on: September 01, 2016, 11:41:25 AM »
Don't be silly.  A bicycle is also a PTW - Pedalled Two Wheels.  :tongue:

 Dang , now I am confused  :rolleyes:

 Dusty

Offline v7john

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #86 on: September 01, 2016, 03:03:15 PM »
I have to disagree with what someone posted earlier.....'UK is same as US - they'd rather put you IN the ditch than let you past'.
Yes I saw that as well but couldn't be bothered to rise to the bait. No problem for Powered Two Wheelers filtering. Stupidly fast lane splitting on motorways does P people off though.

I've even been given space to filter in stationary traffic while towing my trailer. Overall 98cm wide.
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oldbike54

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #87 on: September 01, 2016, 03:17:54 PM »
Yes I saw that as well but couldn't be bothered to rise to the bait. No problem for Powered Two Wheelers filtering. Stupidly fast lane splitting on motorways does P people off though.

I've even been given space to filter in stationary traffic while towing my trailer. Overall 98cm wide.

 Mu understanding is that Brits are fairly courteous drivers , willing to give room to motorbikes . Maybe London is a bit different , but seems most of the country is still honoring the era when lots of folks stared out on 2 wheels . Tulsa , with a metro area population of probably 700,000 or so  , has drivers with much different habits than out here in the hinterlands .

 Dusty

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2017, 01:05:16 PM »
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Offline Tom

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Re: Lane Splitting
« Reply #89 on: January 25, 2017, 01:27:45 PM »
 :thumb:  It would be nice to have that option in Hawaii.  Loads of congestion in Honolulu.
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