Author Topic: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise  (Read 4941 times)

Offline stratoguzzi

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 83
07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« on: October 04, 2018, 10:54:34 AM »
My 2007 California Vintage has a wicked stumble off Idle.It is also noticeable at cruise.The idle is also low and uneven.The bike has a H pipe in place of the cat and has been Beatled.The oxygen sensor is out of the circuit.Runs very strong otherwise...I am leaning to maybe the Throttle Position Sensor has a bad spot.I have a multimeter and tools.I also gave it a dose of fuel injection cleaner and it cleaned up the idle somewhat.  Thanks...   
2007 CalVin
1984 SPNT

Offline fotoguzzi

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19931
  • vee git tooh soon oldt und too late wise -my Dad
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2018, 11:02:54 AM »
mileage? and when were the valves adjusted last? also TB sync..
MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Offline Wayne Orwig

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 13908
    • Hog Mountain weather
  • Location: Hog Mountain
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2018, 11:51:09 AM »
I would do new plugs, valve adjust, throttle body sync and TPS adjust. Connect GuzziDiag and look at the TPS output to see if it is jumping around.
Plan to replace the TPS if it still does it..
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Online antmanbee

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 903
  • Location: N E Florida
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 11:56:01 AM »
Was it running fine before and it just started with the symptoms you describe? A TPS check/set and TB sync and valve adj are always a good place to start. Also check plugs, caps and wires. Could also be the beginning of an internal fuel leak from the inside tank plumbing.
Did you just load the new map?

Wildguzzi.com

Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 11:56:01 AM »

Offline stratoguzzi

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2018, 10:39:25 AM »
Has just over 10,000 miles.Most of everything has been addressed.New plugs,fuel pump and filter in tank has new hoses.Valves are adjusted correctly.....need to look at TPS values.I have the cables and a laptop....
2007 CalVin
1984 SPNT

Offline Cross-tie Walker

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2018, 11:10:00 AM »
Not sure if it has the same kick stand cutoff as my old EV, but that was the same symptom I had with it. Bypassed the cutout switch on the stand and problem over. Worth a look anyway
Kevin in Seattle
'72 Eldo
'07 Vintage

Online antmanbee

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 903
  • Location: N E Florida
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2018, 11:27:26 AM »
Has just over 10,000 miles.Most of everything has been addressed.New plugs,fuel pump and filter in tank has new hoses.Valves are adjusted correctly.....need to look at TPS values.I have the cables and a laptop....

Still wondering if it was running fine before you did all the work.
Did you use the special submersible hose for the in tank fuel lines?

Offline Ncdan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5878
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2018, 03:34:40 PM »
Still wondering if it was running fine before you did all the work.
Did you use the special submersible hose for the in tank fuel lines?
Antman, this was my CalVin that I sold to this gentleman after I got my 1400. Yes I did the the only modifications that has been did as when I got it, it was bone stock.  The tank hose has been corrected. I put the minstrel Hpipe on before Beetle helped me with the mapping which was perfected over time with trial and error adjustments and tweaks over two seasons. Before selling the bike the valves were adjusted and the throttle bodies balanced. She was perfect, in my opinion, when I turned her over to the new owner. I spoke with him this morning and he relayed to me he's thinking it's possibly the TPS SENSOR. Dan has been ridding Guzzis for 30+ years but this is his first FI model guzzi. I sure he will appreciate and first hand information from you guys who are familiar with these year model Guzzis.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 03:36:58 PM by Ncdan »

Offline malik

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2377
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2018, 07:47:29 PM »
Dirty throttle bodies can contribute to your symptoms, as well as out of balance throttle bodies, a failing TPS, a blocked fuel filter, blocked injectors, a blocked air filter. If the bike has ever had one of the oiled air filters, excess oiling can coat the insides of the TBs with a film of oil, which then collects a fine black dust  (ask me how I know). Oil in the airbox can do the same. Lots of possible causes, probably best to work through the cheap fixes first, before tackling the electric & electronic possibilities. Let's us know how it goes.
2010 V7 Classic, 2014 V7 Special
1996 1100 Sport Carb (in NZ), 2004 V11 LeMans (in UK)
Carberry Enfield V-Twin, 2008 Royal Enfield Electra, 2006 RE Electra 535

Offline jim_W

  • New Egg
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 81
  • Location: Arizona
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2018, 09:23:43 PM »
The TPS failed on my CalVin (2009)  a few years back.   It would run fine at full throttle and it would idle ok. I road it home, 1500 miles by alternating between wide open and coast. Not good for fuel economy.   I replaced it with one from my local Harley dealer. An early Road King unit. Worked very well and a lot less money than the Guzzi unit.
"There are a few must-haves in life. They are (1) air, (2) food and drink, (3) clothing, (4) shelter, and (5) a good revolver. Everything else is optional."

Offline Ncdan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5878
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2018, 08:01:54 AM »
The TPS failed on my CalVin (2009)  a few years back.   It would run fine at full throttle and it would idle ok. I road it home, 1500 miles by alternating between wide open and coast. Not good for fuel economy.   I replaced it with one from my local Harley dealer. An early Road King unit. Worked very well and a lot less money than the Guzzi unit.
The Harley exchange is good to know jim, to bad there's no exchange for the 1400 as they are 400-450 bucks!

Offline Rebochi

  • Hatchling
  • **
  • Posts: 164
  • Location: Tucson
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2018, 04:52:38 PM »
  What is Beatled and what do you gain from disconnecting the O2 sensor?
1200 GS
1200 Sport
1100 Griso
2003 Rosso Corsa
Ducati Multistrada
Indian FTR 1200

Offline Ncdan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5878
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2018, 06:09:47 PM »
  What is Beatled and what do you gain from disconnecting the O2 sensor?
He meant to say "Beetle" as in Beetle mapped. What you gain by removal the 02 sensor is to change over to a open loop system which greatly improves Preformance and a much friendlier bike to ride, IMHO. I'll stop with that before  get over my head 🤔

Offline Rebochi

  • Hatchling
  • **
  • Posts: 164
  • Location: Tucson
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2018, 04:31:35 PM »
      I am using a PC V W/auto  tune with switchable auto tune on my 08 1200S with a 2013 Griso motor. Muffler is free flowing and the air box has the Guzzi tech top, y-pipe is from Guzzi tech. and the basic mapping is Guzzi tech. With the O2 sensor switched  off there is no detectable improvement in running but a definite drop in fuel mileage and obviously over fueling. Overall mileage with the auto tune turned on is 39.5 MPG, mileage with the auto tune turned off is 34 MPG.  By altering the fuel map I can cause a miss fire and flat spots.
   I would suggest that you revert the mapping, exhaust  and 02 sensor to stock to verify that your problem isn't the fueling and exhaust mods and to pin point where the problem is coming from. MY wild internet guess is that exhaust mods caused a miss match with the fuel mapping and the lack of an 02 sensor exaberates the problem.
1200 GS
1200 Sport
1100 Griso
2003 Rosso Corsa
Ducati Multistrada
Indian FTR 1200

Offline Ncdan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5878
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2018, 04:55:31 PM »
      I am using a PC V W/auto  tune with switchable auto tune on my 08 1200S with a 2013 Griso motor. Muffler is free flowing and the air box has the Guzzi tech top, y-pipe is from Guzzi tech. and the basic mapping is Guzzi tech. With the O2 sensor switched  off there is no detectable improvement in running but a definite drop in fuel mileage and obviously over fueling. Overall mileage with the auto tune turned on is 39.5 MPG, mileage with the auto tune turned off is 34 MPG.  By altering the fuel map I can cause a miss fire and flat spots.
   I would suggest that you revert the mapping, exhaust  and 02 sensor to stock to verify that your problem isn't the fueling and exhaust mods and to pin point where the problem is coming from. MY wild internet guess is that exhaust mods caused a miss match with the fuel mapping and the lack of an 02 sensor exaberates the problem.
The bike ran flawlessly many miles the way it was when I had the Calvin, after the Hpipe replaced the converter and the mapping was done. She ran like a scalded dog, didn't over heat in hot temps and delivered 50-52 MPG on the highway in tank to tank trips. I won't speculate as to the issue now but I feel sure it has nothing to do with the exhaust system and I don't think nothing should have changed with the mapping, the way it was. However I'm by no means a Guzzi specialist and mostly rely on the guys here on the board to help me when issues with my Guzzis creeps up on me. Thanks for the response and opinion and I hope they may help the original poster.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 08:52:02 PM by Ncdan »

Offline stratoguzzi

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2018, 10:16:47 AM »
The bike is very much ride able.There is much power and good gas mileage.The idle speed is a little low and the off idle acceleration is a little weak.I thinking towards a bad TPS only because I had many D-Jetronic Bosch Volvos that did the same thing because it would wear in the spot thats used most often-just above idle where you would be at cruise.Can I look at TPS values by plugging it into my computer.Will a screen come up that I can navigate to look at voltages? 
2007 CalVin
1984 SPNT

Offline Sheepdog

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5575
  • 2007 Moto Guzzi California Vintage
  • Location: Waldheim, Louisiana. USA
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2018, 10:45:23 AM »
Check for intake and exhaust leaks.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." John C. Maxwell

Offline Ncdan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5878
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2018, 11:33:13 AM »
Check for intake and exhaust leaks.
Sheep, that recommendation definitely stopped the deceleration popping I was having with her and a good possible fix but they probably have not had enough miles to get loose again. But then again with a Goose anything is possible 😂

beetle

  • Guest
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2018, 03:43:25 PM »
Will a screen come up that I can navigate to look at voltages?


No, you will need the GuzziDiag software and cables. You can check the TPS voltage with a voltmeter. Should be somewhere around 150mV with the throttle closed.



Offline stratoguzzi

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2018, 03:41:25 PM »
I will check for intake and exhaust leaks.I will also check the voltage at TPS.Thanks everyone...
2007 CalVin
1984 SPNT

beetle

  • Guest
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2018, 03:55:15 PM »
When you check the TPS voltage, slowly open the throttle and note whether the volts increase smoothly. Difficult with a digital meter, I know, but it may indicate any bad spots.


Offline Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 30431
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2018, 05:44:15 PM »
      I am using a PC V W/auto  tune with switchable auto tune on my 08 1200S with a 2013 Griso motor. Muffler is free flowing and the air box has the Guzzi tech top, y-pipe is from Guzzi tech. and the basic mapping is Guzzi tech. With the O2 sensor switched  off there is no detectable improvement in running but a definite drop in fuel mileage and obviously over fueling. Overall mileage with the auto tune turned on is 39.5 MPG, mileage with the auto tune turned off is 34 MPG.  By altering the fuel map I can cause a miss fire and flat spots.
   I would suggest that you revert the mapping, exhaust  and 02 sensor to stock to verify that your problem isn't the fueling and exhaust mods and to pin point where the problem is coming from. MY wild internet guess is that exhaust mods caused a miss match with the fuel mapping and the lack of an 02 sensor exaberates the problem.
If you shut off the auto tune and ignore the O2 sensor and it runs too rich then on the Guzzitech map it would suggest the Guzzitech map is to blame, no?

As Dan has said the bike ran fine with the open-loop Beetle map. That's not the problem.

Dan and OP, I share the thought that you should check the TPS for overall adjustment and flat spots/voltage drops at part throttle.

I wouldn't have expected it to be throttle body balance which really shouldn't need to be touched at such low mileage.
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

Offline Ncdan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5878
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2018, 09:57:29 PM »
If you shut off the auto tune and ignore the O2 sensor and it runs too rich then on the Guzzitech map it would suggest the Guzzitech map is to blame, no?

As Dan has said the bike ran fine with the open-loop Beetle map. That's not the problem.

Dan and OP, I share the thought that you should check the TPS for overall adjustment and flat spots/voltage drops at part throttle.

I wouldn't have expected it to be throttle body balance which really shouldn't need to be touched at such low mileage.
I had the throttle body balance checked when I had the valves adjusted a couple hundred miles before selling her to the OP. All was good at that time. Time will tell. Thanks everyone for helping with getting my ole goose straightened out:)

Offline stratoguzzi

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2019, 01:11:10 PM »
Runs Great now.TPS voltage was off.Seems to run and idle better with .750 volt at idle instead of .450.Also balanced the throttle bodies with vacuum gauges.Thanks to all that replied....
2007 CalVin
1984 SPNT

Offline Ncdan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5878
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2019, 02:27:47 PM »
Runs Great now.TPS voltage was off.Seems to run and idle better with .750 volt at idle instead of .450.Also balanced the throttle bodies with vacuum gauges.Thanks to all that replied....
I'm glad the ole gal is feeling better, Dan.

Offline aschem

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 264
  • Location: S.E. Idaho
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2019, 02:36:41 PM »
I'm glad the ole gal is feeling better, Dan.
Me too  :grin:
I was cleaning out my closet and found some parts for the CALVIN; I owned the bike prior to NCdan. A couple of chrome side covers, a pair of "bag lady" luggage liners, and I even have a NOS Guzzi tank bag that I never took out of the box. I totally forgot that I bought these items, I stashed them in a box mark Buell parts.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 02:40:41 PM by aschem »

Offline Ncdan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5878
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2019, 02:40:29 PM »
Me too  :grin:
Was cleaning out my closet and found some parts for the CALVIN. I owned the bike prior to Dan (forgot that I had them) a couple of chrome side covers,  "bag lady" luggage liners, and I even have a NOS Guzzi tank bag that I never took out of the box
Monte!!! Where have you been hiding my friend? Yea I remember you telling me you had those covers but they got omitted somehow. I figured you just kept them for memories:)

Offline aschem

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 264
  • Location: S.E. Idaho
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2019, 02:42:39 PM »
Well I found them, but I can't find my Buell parts; guess I should look in the Honda box!

Offline Kiwi Dave

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1421
    • Guzzi Gander Ltd
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: 07 California Vintage stumble at cruise
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2019, 03:03:09 PM »
Runs Great now.TPS voltage was off.Seems to run and idle better with .750 volt at idle instead of .450.Also balanced the throttle bodies with vacuum gauges.Thanks to all that replied....

Sounds a little high.  Spec is TPS @ 3.6° ±0.3° (495-560mV)

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here
 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here