Author Topic: Ram Clutch Not Centered? !SOLVED!  (Read 1110 times)

guido guzzi

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Ram Clutch Not Centered? !SOLVED!
« on: September 25, 2022, 09:30:07 AM »
Having a *little* trouble mating gearbox to motor of the V7 Sport after installing a new Ram Clutch and Ram input hub. After 17 attempts - in 1st gear and turning the GB output shaft to line up the input hub to the clutch it will not go together :violent1:  Looks like the friction plate is about 1 mm low of center - as delivered.
Anyone ever see this and more importantly how did you correct it?
Thanks in advance for any help.
John Wendt in Wisconsin
« Last Edit: September 29, 2022, 09:11:45 AM by guido guzzi »

Offline Dirk_S

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Re: Ram Clurch Not Centered?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2022, 09:47:00 AM »
Maybe I’m not understanding the issue properly, but did you attempt to center the clutch onto the flywheel with an alignment tool?
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Offline guzzista

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2022, 10:39:18 AM »
I used the clutch hub ( before attaching  to the clutch shaft) to align the disc . After installing the hub , gearbox went in  easy peasy. Good luck
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Online jhem68

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Re: Ram Clurch Not Centered?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2022, 10:40:22 AM »
When I installed one on the Eldo, I too found it to be tedious chore getting the splines just right. I could get to where it seemed to just about engage by turning the GB output shaft then hang up a little. I then decided to get it to this point, then with my left hand holding/supporting/applying forward pressure on the back of the tranny, I used a screwdriver through the flywheel inspection hole to gently move the flywheel and it finally slipped into place.  Tedious!

The RAM clutch set up comes fully assembled and supposedly centered. Flywheel, Clutch, Pressure Plate etc.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 10:55:51 AM by jhem68 »

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Re: Ram Clurch Not Centered?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2022, 10:40:22 AM »

Offline lucian

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2022, 10:44:11 AM »
I found that leaving the clutch bolts just snug enough to hold the friction plate in place . center off as close as you can by eye and then test fit the tranny. If the alignment isn't perfect you can poke the clutch center hub into alignment with a long screwdriver while sighting down between the engine and trans,( back off the tranny a bit} once you get things to mate up , carefully remove the tranny and torque the clutch bolts to spec.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 10:45:38 AM by lucian »

guido guzzi

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2022, 11:12:06 AM »
I found that leaving the clutch bolts just snug enough to hold the friction plate in place . center off as close as you can by eye and then test fit the tranny. If the alignment isn't perfect you can poke the clutch center hub into alignment with a long screwdriver while sighting down between the engine and trans,( back off the tranny a bit} once you get things to mate up , carefully remove the tranny and torque the clutch bolts to spec.

Thanks for the speedy replies fellas!

EDIT: Is the assembly under tension? Thinking it is not...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 12:25:06 PM by guido guzzi »

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2022, 12:14:27 PM »
Just in case you should decide to ditch the ram clutch I have a complete 10 spring clutch assembly with light flywheel from a Centauro, price is reasonable.

MINNEAPOLIS, MN

guido guzzi

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2022, 03:12:12 PM »
I found that leaving the clutch bolts just snug enough to hold the friction plate in place . center off as close as you can by eye and then test fit the tranny. If the alignment isn't perfect you can poke the clutch center hub into alignment with a long screwdriver while sighting down between the engine and trans,( back off the tranny a bit} once you get things to mate up , carefully remove the tranny and torque the clutch bolts to spec.

So the Ram flywheel is NOT under tension like the OEM clutch?

Offline jrt

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Re: Ram Clurch Not Centered?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2022, 03:26:55 PM »
When I installed one on the Eldo, I too found it to be tedious chore getting the splines just right. I could get to where it seemed to just about engage by turning the GB output shaft then hang up a little. I then decided to get it to this point, then with my left hand holding/supporting/applying forward pressure on the back of the tranny, I used a screwdriver through the flywheel inspection hole to gently move the flywheel and it finally slipped into place.  Tedious!

The RAM clutch set up comes fully assembled and supposedly centered. Flywheel, Clutch, Pressure Plate etc.
This was my experience as well.
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Offline lucian

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2022, 03:39:27 PM »
The six bolts that hold the clutch onto the flywheel compress the spring plate as you tighten them down locking the friction plate in place. The bolts need to be tightened  evenly in a cross pattern. Loosen evenly in a cross pattern also. The complete ram kit comes assembled and the friction plate is supposed to come centered. If you are just replacing the friction disc and have diss assembled the clutch , the easiest way to line things up is as I previously mentioned. Loosen the six bolts evenly unti you can nudge the friction plate around with a tap from a light mallet and a screwdriver . You can now fit up the tranny and see if things are centered while closing together. If not, reach in with a screwdriver and nudge the friction plate into alignment with the splined hub on the trans input shaft. You can put a couple long bolts ( the two from the starter will work) into two of the bell housing to keep it lined up and be able to back it off if you need to peek in between and verify or correct the clutch centering. Once the trans mates up the clutch plate is centered . You only need to be careful removing the trans and then torque the six clutch bolts down. 
You will of course have to rotate the tranny shaft or the flywheel to get the splines lined up. I  just use the driveshaft on the output shaft with the tranny in gear to spin it,
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 03:46:18 PM by lucian »

guido guzzi

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2022, 03:48:43 PM »
The six bolts that hold the clutch onto the flywheel compress the spring plate as you tighten them down locking the friction plate in place. The bolts need to be tightened  evenly in a cross pattern. Loosen evenly in a cross pattern also. The complete ram kit comes assembled and the friction plate is supposed to come centered. If you are just replacing the friction disc and have diss assembled the clutch , the easiest way to line things up is as I previously mentioned. Loosen the six bolts evenly unti you can nudge the friction plate around with a tap from a light mallet and a screwdriver . You can now fit up the tranny and see if things are centered while closing together. If not, reach in with a screwdriver and nudge the friction plate into alignment with the splined hub on the trans input shaft. You can put a couple long bolts ( the two from the starter will work) into two of the bell housing to keep it lined up and be able to back it off if you need to peek in between and verify or correct the clutch centering. Once the trans mates up the clutch plate is centered . You only need to be careful removing the trans and then torque the six clutch bolts down.

Got it.
Started loosening the six ring gear bolts and wondered how far I could go before it all came apart!

guido guzzi

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2022, 08:44:18 AM »
Got it.
Started loosening the six ring gear bolts and wondered how far I could go before it all came apart!

Fun Fact: Metric Thread Pitch of 1.25 means the fastener travels (in or out) 1.25 mm per revolution so depth of female thread in the flywheel will determine how far I can loosen before disaster strikes.  :cool:

Offline John A

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2022, 10:57:28 AM »
Just in case you should decide to ditch the ram clutch I have a complete 10 spring clutch assembly with light flywheel from a Centauro, price is reasonable.






I cured clutch problems by using a ten spring on hot rod Guzzi's. I got 15K miles out of my last Ram, they don't last. The regular eight spring units would last maybe 30K but if it's not perfect would slip in third gear on a hard pull. I would like a heavy flywheel ten spring for sidecar duty.
John
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Offline John Croucher

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2022, 07:22:26 PM »
Turning the engine with the output shaft pointing up and dropping the tranny own helps. Doing it horizontal is the hard way.

Offline moto-uno

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2022, 11:06:52 PM »
  ^ How true that is  :thumb: . Peter

guido guzzi

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered?
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2022, 07:41:29 AM »
Turning the engine with the output shaft pointing up and dropping the tranny own helps. Doing it horizontal is the hard way.

Agreed! First time crabbing a frame because it was just an easy clutch replacement... But not the first time I've made more work for myself by trying to take the shortcut :laugh:

guido guzzi

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered? !SOLVED!
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2022, 09:50:26 AM »
Long story short: the friction plate was not centered but it's sooo easy to re-center it that everyone should do it on the bench before installation.

#1 Unlike the OEM Big Twin clutch, all of the spring tension will be released before the 6 bolts holding it all together unthread from the flywheel.

The ID of the  starter Ring Gear is close enough to call it 130mm. (Upper Pic)
The OD of the friction plate's splined hub is close enough to call it 69mm (Lower Pic)
Difference between the two is 61 mm
Distance between each side of the splined hub OD to the ID of the Ring Gear is 30.5mm
Loosen the six bolts on the back of the Ring Gear. After approximately 3 revolutions the spring tension will be off AND there will still be thread engagement in the flywheel. Obviously, only loosen enough so the friction plate can be moved but still held in place.
After centering the hub the Transmission slid on the first time.
Remove transmision and tighten the six ring gear bolts.

Thanks to Lucian and everyone else for their help. If in doubt see #1 above.
 




« Last Edit: September 29, 2022, 09:52:50 AM by guido guzzi »

Online jhem68

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered? !SOLVED!
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2022, 11:48:41 AM »
Congratulations John and thanks for posting this follow up. I will print this out and add to my RAM instructions sheet for future reference.

Now I'm going out to the garage and again attempt to get all the air out of the linked brakes on my SP after the stainless line install! LOL.

Offline lucian

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered? !SOLVED!
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2022, 12:26:02 PM »
 :thumb: :thumb: I just used the same method to install the new clutch plate in my griso, which also has a diaphragm type spring. No "special tool" required. Hope the Ram clutch works out good for you.

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered? !SOLVED!
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2022, 12:56:46 PM »

Now I'm going out to the garage and again attempt to get all the air out of the linked brakes on my SP after the stainless line install! LOL.

Please, start a new thread and let us know what you did!


guido guzzi

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered? !SOLVED!
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2022, 01:12:07 PM »
Congratulations John and thanks for posting this follow up. I will print this out and add to my RAM instructions sheet for future reference.

Now I'm going out to the garage and again attempt to get all the air out of the linked brakes on my SP after the stainless line install! LOL.

Thank you John!
I still remember what a SOB of a job it was getting the air out of the Ex Convert's linked circuit after installing new lines. Believe I ended up elevating the master cylinder until the return hole was the highest point in the circuit then just pumping (and pumping and pumping..) - with all the bleeders closed- until the last bubbles came out. This after bleeding out as much as possible...

Online Huzo

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered? !SOLVED!
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2022, 03:09:00 PM »
How many k’s are you blokes getting out the clutch of “modern” big block Guzzi’s ?

guido guzzi

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Re: Ram Clutch Not Centered? !SOLVED!
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2022, 12:09:48 PM »
When testing the clutch, the pull at the lever was so light I thought I must have F'd it up. Surely there's not enough spring pressure there to harness the massive torque of the V7 Sport.  :laugh:
But sure enough, it released and the rear wheel would spin when the lever was pulled in. Have heard that the Ram clutch needs more freeplay at the handle than the OEM clutch so set it at about 4 mm. Shifted flawlessly and made the bike an absolute joy to ride.  :thumb:
Have heard that it won't last more than 15K miles but that's 15 years on this bike.
Take a test pull of the clutch lever on a Ram-equipped bike and you will be sold.  :shocked:

P.S. MG Cycle recommends using a clutch pushrod around 250mm - OEM is around 245mm
I bought 3 feet of 'Tight tolerance Oil Hardening O1 Tool Steel Rod, 6 mm Diameter' for $8.05 from McMaster-Carr  Part Number: 88625K65.
Cut to size with reinforced Dremel cut off wheel and put a crude 45 degree radius on the ends...   :bike-037:
« Last Edit: October 03, 2022, 02:00:18 PM by guido guzzi »

 

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