Booster Plug

[kris]

Have any of you tried this and if so does it work as advertised?  The throttle on my new Norge is awfully snatchy and I'd like to remedy it.  I did a search but much came up.  Thanks!

[fotoguzzi]

?

have you adjusted the throttle cables?

[kris]

Just picked the bike up yesterday, so no I haven't.  There is a lot of play that I'm going to adjust out but I don't think that will eliminate the "on, off" effect that I'm experiencing.

[kris]

Sorry, forgot to include this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BoosterPlug-Moto-Guzzi-Norge-850-Plug-and-Play-Forget-the-Power-Commander/121597013701?_trksid=p2054897.c100204.m3164&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140407115239%26meid%3Dfd63c1d618304a6090d0253c48a64a52%26pid%3D100204%26rk%3D21%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D111622497910

[fotoguzzi]

You have an 850 Norge?  we didn't get those in the US.

[Kent in Upstate NY]

VDG just repaired a motor that ran something like that to the tune of 7500.00 AUS.

[Wayne Orwig]

Use your time and $$ to set up the free/very cheap GuzziDiag software and cables.
Get more out of it.

Reduce the slack in the cables. Give the bike some break in time, AND then get a proper throttle body setup.

[kris]

Thanks for this info!  I'll hunt down the software and cables.
For syncing throttle bodies on my BMW's I used to use a twinmax, is this best way to sync the Guzzi or is there another method that works better?  Thanks

[kris]

Thanks Dusty, is this also guzzidiag?

[molly]

Please don't bother with a booster plug it only fools the air temperature sensor to richen the fuel mixture probably one of the crudest and least effective methods of 'tuning' a engine.

[Wayne Orwig]

For syncing throttle bodies on my BMW's I used to use a twinmax, is this best way to sync the Guzzi or is there another method that works better?  Thanks

Personally, I think the Twinmax sucks relative to other tools that I have used. But yes, it (and the software to reset the TPS) will work.

[rodekyll]

That was due to a FatDuc (O2 sensor signal modifier).  There are only three ways to fool an ECU:

1 - FatDuc - modifies O2 sensor input - closed loop only.  Dangerous because we don't know everything we need to know about how the ECU uses the signal.
2- Ambient air intake modifier - tells the ECU it's colder outside.  Most the cheap versions are just a resister.  But resisters tend to vary resistance based on temperature so they are not linear and you may over fuel the bike as well.  The BoosterPlug propaganda suggests that they have compensated for this and come with another air temp sensor to provide a reference reading.  Supposed to be linear.  BoosterPlug link.
3 - Fool the ECU into thinking that you are at a lower altitude.  No one has attempted this and I understand why.

As already stated the best solution is a new map.  The fix provided also takes the narrow band O2 sensor out of the loop.  Yes, it is Guzzidiag.

4 - increase fuel pressure

[Vasco DG]

Kris, I wasn't following your other thread closely. Which model did you end up with four valve or eight valve?

I personally detest signal foolers of any sort and yes, I've just had to do a crank up rebuild on a 2O2 Stelvio that was killed by a pair of O2 sensor foolers. The narrow band sensors are very crude. I wouldn't think the air temp sensor and its interpretation would be much more sophisticated and it may have knock on effects to other aspects of the map. Run away!

Before you balance the TB's make sure you understand how to do it. DO NOT TOUCH THE THROTTLE STOP SCREW ON THE LH THROTTLE BODY! and be aware that you will need to re-calibrate the TPS after the bodies have been balanced so I'd advise against doing anything until you have Guzzidiag and the necessary cables.

Pete

[Randown]

That was due to a FatDuc (O2 sensor signal modifier).  There are only three ways to fool an ECU:

1 - FatDuc - modifies O2 sensor input - closed loop only.  Dangerous because we don't know everything we need to know about how the ECU uses the signal.
2- Ambient air intake modifier - tells the ECU it's colder outside.  Most the cheap versions are just a resister.  But resisters tend to vary resistance based on temperature so they are not linear and you may over fuel the bike as well.  The BoosterPlug propaganda suggests that they have compensated for this and come with another air temp sensor to provide a reference reading.  Supposed to be linear.  BoosterPlug link.
3 - Fool the ECU into thinking that you are at a lower altitude.  No one has attempted this and I understand why.

As already stated the best solution is a new map.  The fix provided also takes the narrow band O2 sensor out of the loop.  Yes, it is Guzzidiag.

The secret sauce inside a Booster Plug is typically a 10k NTC (negative temp coefficient) thermistor in parallel with a 56k resistor. That's it. It does make resistance / temperature curve that roughly tracks the OEM's 5k NTC intake air thermistor (IAT) at a 20C offset.

Theoretically this would make a 6% fuel enrichment across the board in the open loop map. In actuality ECU's using Lamba sensors build trim tables that mitigate its effectiveness.

[kris]

Thanks Pete, I got a good deal on a 2014 8v.  I won't be doing anything until it's due for a first service, in the mean time I'll be hunting down all the needed tools and such to do the job right.  I did tighten up the throttle cables and that did help, but it's still pretty snatchy.  I'm just going to leave it for now and enjoy riding! ;-T

[rodekyll]

Kris -- snatching on throttle changes and shifts is very hard on the u-joints.  The easier you can make that throttle transition, the less expensive it is in the long run.  I'd keep at it.  ymmv, $0.02 and all that.

[blackcat]

I'm just going to leave it for now and enjoy riding! ;-T

Probably your best option.

[sign216]

I made a DIY version using a diode to reduce the voltage going to the O2 sensor.  Dirt cheap when done yourself, and the results were fine at low-mid rpm.

Here's a link to my efforts:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/sets/72157629649665070/

click on each picture for the text below

[Vasco DG]

I made a DIY version using a diode to reduce the voltage going to the O2 sensor.  Dirt cheap when done yourself, and the results were fine at low-mid rpm.

Here's a link to my efforts:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/sets/72157629649665070/

click on each picture for the text below

This may work on machines with a 15m-RC controller but I really, REALLY, [REALLY/size] advise against it on machines using the W5AM. Please, don't even think about it.

Download Guzzidiag and reader and writer, buy the cables. After its run in we can flip you a map that will help.

Pete

[molly]

The problem with interfering with the air temperature sensor is that it is only one of a number of sensors that influence the ecu so in isolation it will not help much. You can do much the same thing with Guzzidiag by editing the air temperature/pressure table but unless the lambda sensor is switched off again not a lot will be gained.

Pete is right keep clear of plug-in foolers on the newer ecus they can bring the down the fuel air ratio down to very rich conditions.
On my 1200 2v motor with a lambda fooler fitted the air/fuel ratio was 11:1 in certain throttle/rpm positions . This was measured on a dyno and eventually the ecu threw up a warning light. The fooler was supposed to control the afr at 13.6:1 it very rarely achieved this figure.
If the bike is not running right a throttle balance and TPS is the way to go then a Guzzidiag map if still not happy.

[kris]

Thanks Pete, I've decided to take everyone's advice and go with Guzzidiag, I'm just having trouble locating the download and cables, + I'm on limited computer time right now.
I used to use a Twinmax to balance my throttle bodies on my BMW's and could really get those motors to run smooth.  Is this the best tool to use for the Guzzi or is there something better?  Thanks,

Kris

[Wayne Orwig]

I used to use a Twinmax to balance my throttle bodies on my BMW's and could really get those motors to run smooth.  Is this the best tool to use for the Guzzi or is there something better?  Thanks,

The Twinmax will work just fine. I just dislike the bouncing needle.
You will want to get GuzziDiag working first so you can reset the TPS after balancing the throttles. 

I guess I could try a restrictor in the Twinmax hoses.