fat duc o2 manipulator on guzzi v7 special - first impressions

[harryzet]

well here are my first impressons of the fat duc on my v7 special, made 2014: they mounted easily, my first try was with the potis in the 3 o’clock position. the bike started better than before, but after a few days it began to sputter again between 1500 and 2500 revs. i turned the potis in the 5 o’clock ,position, but that was unrideable so to say, it always felt like it was running on one cylinder only. now i am at a position between 12 and 1 o’clock and thats probably the sweet spot. i disconnected the battery for a minute to clear the ecu, and since then its running like i have another motor. smooth, no vibrations, pulls without trouble from standstill up to 5000 and more revs, no exhaust popping, and it improves daily, probably due to the .
i am very satisfied now, especially when driving stop and go with a cold motor in the city of vienna. i have mounted the ducs on either side of the side panels and made a little hole in one of the mesh-stripes so i can adjust with a small screwdriver.
special thanks go to kev, who was so generous to send me the ducs for free. could’nt be happier with my v7.

[beetle]

 :beat_horse

[fossil]

"smooth, no vibrations, pulls without trouble from standstill up to 5000 and more revs, no exhaust popping, and it improves daily, probably due to the"
Interesting. All this applies to my absolutely non-manipulated V7 Stone for two years now without restraint.

[jas67]

"smooth, no vibrations, pulls without trouble from standstill up to 5000 and more revs, no exhaust popping, and it improves daily, probably due to the"
Interesting. All this applies to my absolutely non-manipulated V7 Stone for two years now without restraint.

 :+1 for my '13 Racer.

[Kev m]

Let's keep in mind that Harry has an open airbox and mufflers and so his wasn't running so smooth before.

I hope it actually does help and continues to, but keep an eye on the oil for dilution just in case.

[Vasco DG]

(Gurgle.) Carry on.

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

Nice exercise in restraint there, Petey.. ;D

[drw916]

Yeah, I took my fuel manipulator off the Stelvio immediately after Pete's warning and noticed...nothing.  No change in how it started, ran or anything.

[Kev m]

Any additional updates? Is it continuing to work for you?

[Vasco DG]

(Gurgle, cough, gurgle.......)

[steffen]

(Gurgle, cough, gurgle.......)

This made me laugh...

[JeffOlson]

Let's keep in mind that Harry has an open airbox and mufflers and so his wasn't running so smooth before.

I hope it actually does help and continues to, but keep an eye on the oil for dilution just in case.

I hope it works, too. That would be an easy fix for him if it does.

[RickTReloaded]

What's the fat duc thingy cost?  My ECU reflash (Rexxer) cost me $300 and fortunately, it's been smooth throttling since.

[JeffOlson]

https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=56000

$81.99.

[Kev m]

Except that you would need 2 of them for a 1TB motor.

In under the impression Harry either couldn't find a Rexxer reflash in/near Vienna, or it was more expensive.

[mechanicsavant]

Just put a pair on my 16 V7ii, after guttng the cats . The surge @ cold idle is gone (it would surge so bad on cold day it would flame out) , much better low & mid range performance . That was my main goal . Only 160mi. so far so milage haven't been sused out . Initially very satisfied . Taking off from dead stop is night & day improvement. Previously engine felt like it had no flywheel,if ya didn't slip clutch a bit it would fall on its face then cough & surge when it didn't stall! Dealer said latest map was installed & let me compare against his demo bike (cost me a box of donuts ) it was nearly identical to mine . Now ,no need to slip clutch a bit o throttle ,feed clutch out & it pulls nicely . As delivered fat ducs were set @ 1:00 o'clock position,I set it to 12:00 o'clock before install . the idea of plug n play appeals to me as I've a bit of warranty left. Providing dealer doesn't read this!! Happier rider

[pete roper]

(Sigh) I still strongly advise against using these devices for reasons previously settled, ad nauseam, but I give up. What's the point?

[sign216]

I had a DIY version on my '09 V7 Classic, which only required one unit instead of two.  It really helped at low rpms, but I've since moved on to a more sophisticated programmable ECU, MyECU from Australia.  It's great, but it's only for the "old" single throttle body engines.

Here's my tutorial on making your own O2 Sensor Spoofer:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157629649665070

Here's the MyECU website:  http://www.myecu.biz/MyECU/index.htm

[Kev m]

Just put a pair on my 16 V7ii, after guttng the cats . The surge @ cold idle is gone (it would surge so bad on cold day it would flame out) , much better low & mid range performance . That was my main goal . Only 160mi. so far so milage haven't been sused out . Initially very satisfied . Taking off from dead stop is night & day improvement. Previously engine felt like it had no flywheel,if ya didn't slip clutch a bit it would fall on its face then cough & surge when it didn't stall! Dealer said latest map was installed & let me compare against his demo bike (cost me a box of donuts ) it was nearly identical to mine . Now ,no need to slip clutch a bit o throttle ,feed clutch out & it pulls nicely . As delivered fat ducs were set @ 1:00 o'clock position,I set it to 12:00 o'clock before install . the idea of plug n play appeals to me as I've a bit of warranty left. Providing dealer doesn't read this!! Happier rider

Just a warning since this thread first came up, I THINK at least one V7 motor death was blamed on such devices. I want to say it was the result of over-fueling and washing the cylinders of oil.

Had you posted asking first I think most here would have directed you to GuzziDiag's free map tool and, if you wanted, a map from Beetle, which likely would have cost less than 2 Fat Ducs. You may still want to consider going that route and selling the FatDucs.

In the past I think Beetle has allowed people to try his maps and, if they were happy, pay then.

Hard to argue with that sort of friendly service.

Something to consider.

If not, please keep an eye on your motor and oil dilution.

Kev

[mechanicsavant]

Yup I'll keep close eye on over fueling, it should show up as poor milage and ,or oil dilution. Doesn't a reflash void warranty? I also heard once done a piaggio diagnostic tool won't work? This came from factory tech just back from training ! Not surprising he also mentioned a number of other dealership personnel having issues w/reflashes done on the left coast. I appreciate all the 411 I can get.

[Kev m]

Yup I'll keep close eye on over fueling, it should show up as poor milage and ,or oil dilution. Doesn't a reflash void warranty? I also heard once done a piaggio diagnostic tool won't work? This came from factory tech just back from training ! Not surprising he also mentioned a number of other dealership personnel having issues w/reflashes done on the left coast. I appreciate all the 411 I can get.

I don't think the destroyed motor gave any signs, but it's all whisper down the lane so I can't be sure.

If a dealer sees those Fat Ducs, they'll void the powertrain portion of the warranty too.

As for reflash voiding, well, that depends if they ever find out. Using Guzzidiag and associated map reader/writer, you have the ability to download and save YOUR original map and reload it as desired. So you could always return it to factory stock prior to a warranty/dealer visit.

Certainly I would think it's a lot safer option than the FD's.

As for the left coast, I BELIEVE he's selling a rebranded REXXER reflash. I don't know if it can be reflashed with that hardware. Though again, if they were smart they used the Guzzidiag shareware and protect themselves.

[guzzipete]

Just before the warranty expired on my 2009 V7C, it started having a problem holding idle. Every time I stopped, the engine would die. Took it to the dealer and he methodically worked the problem. He got the idle problem fixed, but did not like the fuel/air mixture at higher rpms. He has a dyno. He talked to Guzzi tech support and they told him because the ECUs are tuned lean to pass emissions they would have to trick the ECU into supplying more fuel. They said an O2 spoofer would not work because the O2 sensor is ignored by the ECU when the revs rise above idle. They recommended a product call MemJet which tricks the ECU into thinking the ambient temperature is cooler that it really is and causes it to supply more fuel. The MemJet has been on the bike for seven years and there have been no problems.

What really made a huge difference on my bike was removing the Evap Canister and letting the fuel tank vent to air and running a tube between the nipples (that the Eva Can connected to) on both throttle bodies.

I should note that none of these changes increased horsepower or affected gas mileage. They just made the engine run better.

[Kev m]

Just before the warranty expired on my 2009 V7C,

Just a reminder that MechanicSav has a V7II - meaning single throttle body, dual O2 sensor, different mapping and ECU.

[mechanicsavant]

Okafter reading numerous posts I think I got a plan. For a number of reasons I'm against a reflash @ this point. I do however have access to several exh. Gas analisers solo plans are afoot to take readings I in stock tune ,minus cats @ various speeds ,then repeat w fatducin place . Any gross over fueling should show up . then maybe a dyno run w/exh. Gas analysis !

[oldbike54]

 I have to ask , why are you against a reflash . Beetle has several satisfied customers , fix it and forget it . Fatducs are a bandaid .

 Dusty

[Ncdan]

There are folks that can remap your ECU and bypass your 02 sensor and eliminate 90 percent of your issues. It may take a couple tweaks to get her perfect but it�s totally doable. However one must have a certain amount of computer skills, as my wife does. With her help I went this way and after a few ride and tweaks my map builder got me a much cooler and stronger running Calvin.

[beetle]

If I may, I would like to correct some misconceptions. Please forgive me if I come across as being pedantic.

1. Modifying your bike in any way voids warranty. That includes aftermarket exhausts and air filters. However, this is typically ignored by the manufacturer. Anything else that is installed that affects the fuel delivery is frowned upon.

2. The O2 sensor doesn't operate at idle. The range is typically off-idle to 4000 or 5000 RPM, and above an engine temperature of 55 degrees C. Ergo, the ECU only ignores the sensor when these conditions are met.

3. Devices like the MemJet don't affect the lambda function. The ECU will still trim fuel in the programmed range.

4. A reflash does not affect the official diagnostic tool. Typically, there are no map names or version numbers changed in an aftermarket map. However, the 3rd party software used to flash maps will have its own program loader version saved into the ECU. This includes GuzziDiag and the Alientech box used by Rexxer and GT, et al. Screen dumps or the actual map sent to Guzzi for evaluation by your dealer will give away your dark secret. Reflashing your stock map won't hide this.

Thank you for reading.

[John A]

to disregard Beetle's and Pete's advise on this is foolish but I'm glad you're doing it, I will learn from it and I don't like to discourage folks from modifying their bike. Good luck and keep us posted, please

[sign216]

I can't believe I'm the only one in the USA using the MyECU system.  What, it get's no love?

On the V11 forum its popular, or once was.

[pete roper]

I can see the attraction of Cliff's system, it's just that now the earlier ECU's are pretty much an open book I can also understand why people shy away from it.

Cliff is a smart bloke, not a shill. If you fancy his system? Go for it.

Pete