Neutral safety switch issues?

[giusto]

You folks always seem to find the right answer way faster then I can imagine. MY 2001 Jackal had been acting a bit strange...if by chance I hit the kill switch when parking the bike holding the clutch in... then during starting find neutral and no response...no fuel pump cycle...just lights and nothing...turn the bike off...roll it a little....put it in and out of first gear and in neutral and turn the key...everything's a go...starts right up. Until recently the bike sat for a week and a half while I was travelling (not sure the sequence I used last time I shut her down...but 98% of the time I find neutral and then kill) and when I tried to start lights only....somewhat dim... and nothing at the fuel pump... no start, nothing turning. I went through the usual pre-described routine and still nothing. My buddy thought it may be ground wire (due to the dim lights) so I charged the battery and cleaned all the connections at the battery and the ground to the frame. Still nothing....somewhat dim lights...but full charge holds. I am almost sure it is the neutral safety switch...can someone tell me an easy way to check the switch and or any advise in solving. It's nearly Christmas in Northern Michigan and today temps in the upper 40's...and I'd rather ride this bike then others :)
Thanks for the help! Much appreciated and Merry Christmas to all

Giusto

[oldbike54]

 Just disconnect the switch and see what happens . My Jackal hasn't had a switch in forever .

  Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

you really can't know the condition of the battery until you get a load test.. charging and checking the voltage says nothing.. it sounds to me like you need a new battery.

[giusto]

Not the Battery....I started there...I switched it out for the battery in my V65C which is brand new and works fine...show 12.3 volts under load.

[LowRyter]

many of these bikes have the sidestand switch disconnected.  Mine does. 

[giusto]

I disconnected the side stand switch long ago and tucked it up under the tank.

Thanks for the suggestion

[oldbike54]

I disconnected the side stand switch long ago and tucked it up under the tank.

Thanks for the suggestion

 So the heading was a trick question ????

  Dusty

[giusto]

I thought that there was a difference between the side stand switch and a neutral safety switch

[oldbike54]

I thought that there was a difference between the side stand switch and a neutral safety switch

 There is , I was referring to our lack of reading comprehension skills at times 
Any luck ?

  Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

do you still have the stock Siemens relays? they can go out intermittently.

[giusto]

I have not changed relays....I've owned the bike for a year

[guzzisteve]

I would swap a few around and see what doesn't work.

and we already know the sidestand switch doesn't work.(for Dusty)

[oldbike54]

I would swap a few around and see what doesn't work.

and we already know the sidestand switch doesn't work.(for Dusty)

 I'm blaming that on ... well , something  Do remember where the 5 pin relays were in the panel , not gonna say how I know that is important 

  Dusty

[guzzisteve]

If you get Pyro Dans relays they are all 5 pins.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I looked at the 2000 schematic, it doesn't show an interlock with the neutral switch, it shows just going to the light.
Check the schematic in your manual.

Since you have the stand switch unplugged the stand relay doesn't serve any purpose apart from passing current across the Normally Closed contacts.

I suspect you may have a dirty ignition switch or something else causing Startus Interuptus.

Ooopps, I might be mistaken, the 1998 EV shows the relay picked up by the stand switch OR the neutral switch, your bike might be like that.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1998_EV.gif
Next time it happens see if the Neutral light is on, if not fiddle with the gear change until it comes on.
Check the wire on the neutral switch, you may need to remove the switch and bend the contact a little bit.

[giusto]

Roy,

Thanks for the info... I think :) what would you suggest ? Unlug and refit relays ?
Btw I was in Hamilton for a few weeks this year and then spent avfew weels on the South Island.
I think I'll benack to the north ialand this coming June :)

[Wayne Orwig]

IF you have the wiring version that allows you to simply UNPLUG the sidestand, and it keeps running, then the neutral switch does NOT have an impact on it.
IF you have the wiring version that requires you to SHORT the sidestand wires to keep it running, then that probably DOES have a neutral interlock.
And none of them have a clutch lever switch.

1. Pyro Dan. Get a box of relay.
2. Report back.

[giusto]

Pyro Dan's contact info please

Thanks

[Kiwi_Roy]

You mentioned in your first post the lights being dim when you tried to start one time.
That sounds like the ignition switch is dirty, it powers up the light fuse and it also powers up the start solenoid.

As the bike gets a bit older the grease goes hard and holds the contacts apart. Pull it apart wipe out the old grease and replace it with fresh Vaseline. At 15 it will be like old chewing gum.
The start relay shouldn't really go through the ignition switch, that's the main cause of Startus Interuptus but it's a little more involved on the Jackal to wire around it.

[giusto]

Pull the ignition switch ? apart and clean/regrease (white lithium ) or vasaleene?

[twhitaker]

Pyro Dan's contact info please

Thanks

He is a member on this forum. You can PM him.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Pull the ignition switch ? apart and clean/regrease (white lithium ) or vasaleene?

Plain old Petroleum Jelly aka Vaseline

Electricians have been using it on electrical contacts since Adam was a cowboy.

[giusto]

It sounds like I should have some relays on hand anyway....I did swap out every relay...all 5 pin...and no results.

When I get back home I'll look at the ignition switch.

Where exactly is the neutral safety switch...cant find it in Guzziology or the manual.

Thanks

[Wayne Orwig]

Where exactly is the neutral safety switch...cant find it in Guzziology or the manual.

You said:

I disconnected the side stand switch long ago and tucked it up under the tank.

If you simply unplugged the sidestand switch, and the bike still started and ran, then your bike does NOT have a neutral interlock.

If the neutral light bulb goes ON and OFF, then the neutral switch is working fine.

[giusto]

Hi

No neutral light, no blue light, no dash lights, no fuel pump
Nada just head light.

Thanks

[oldbike54]

Hi

No neutral light, no blue light, no dash lights, no fuel pump
Nada just head light.

Thanks

 Hmm , had the same problem with my Jackal in April . Can you hear the electric petcock kicking on? Turns out mine had a broken wire in the harness near the steering neck . Little green wire that feeds the ECU circuit . Kiwi Roy , Rodekyll , Wayne O , and my buddy Delrod were invaluable . Of course I was traveling , and had to sleep next to the bike on a small patch of ground . Found the problem next morning , after dealing with a thunderstorm that made things interesting . Oh , if the petcock isn't clicking on , the ECU isn't powering up .

  Dusty

[Dharma Bum]

Absolutely change out the relays! You'll be chasing the problem round and round until you do.

[Kiwi_Roy]

There seems to be a few variations in the schematics for 98 Californias
Here's how my 98 EV is wired, it has a P8 ECU, note it doesn't have a Neutral interlock, the stand relay feeds the petcock fuse and picks up the ECU relay.
With the stand unplugged the relay powers the circuit as Wayne described.

The 2000 Jackal on Carl's drawing is also this way except it has the later 15M ECU with a separate Safety Diode.
Note how the start relay coil is fed from the stand relay, if it won't crank and you have no stand switch it must be a bad ignition or kill switch.
Note I have added a 40 Amp fuse at the battery point F to protect the red wire against shorts


I have modified this sketch to show the Neutral switch but I cant post it from here, send me a PM if you want it.
 

[Vagrant]

as I recall the 98 ignition switch was screwed together and not too hard to clean. my 2001 was riveted together and a real bitch and hard to access the mounting screws. you might try shooting a bunch of electrical contact cleaner in it while working it with the key  first. make sure you have lots of towels under it to protect the fender. my 2001 also crimped a wire under the chrome cover on the right side just in front of the gas tank. melted the connecter without blowing the fuse so check there too.

[Kiwi_Roy]

. my 2001 also crimped a wire under the chrome cover on the right side just in front of the gas tank. melted the connecter without blowing the fuse so check there too.

There is no fuse, that's why it didn't blow, you were lucky the bike didn't go up in flames, the battery can send 100 Amps or more to the Ignition switch. I have added a 40 Amp in-line fuse to all my Guzzis to prevent that happening.
Just add a fuse where the large red wire leaves the battery.