Author Topic: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...SSR threadfest .  (Read 12260 times)

Offline Huzo

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...new 250 twin
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2016, 07:06:08 PM »
The VT250 engine was a 90 degree V-twin.


This engine was also used in the 1988-1990 VTR250, and produced 35 HP @ 12,000 RPM, double that of the SSR air cooled unit.
'Thought they looked similar !!

Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...new 250 twin
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2016, 07:37:25 PM »
Cute little bike. Ducati tank, somewhat Morini/Honda looking engine and Guzzi bits as well.



Todd.
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Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: Yea baby! A new cafe racer!
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2016, 07:41:35 PM »
OK, but that'll take a whole new thread.   :evil: :boozing: :boozing: :boozing: :boozing: :boozing: :evil:

It would drop off pretty quick. Most of my shinanagans can't be discussed without being nuked by the Muskogee gastapo  :boozing: :cool:
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oldbike54

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Re: Yea baby! A new cafe racer!
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2016, 08:46:29 PM »
It would drop off pretty quick. Most of my shinanagans can't be discussed without being nuked by the Muskogee gastapo  :boozing: :cool:

 Don't start blaming me for the fact that so many of your activities are questionable  :shocked:

 Gonna merge the two threads .

 Dusty

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Re: Yea baby! A new cafe racer!
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2016, 08:46:29 PM »

Offline jas67

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...new 250 twin
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2016, 08:46:46 PM »
And this Grom sized bike rips off the 2009-2014 Ducati Monster's look:



« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 08:47:23 PM by jas67 »
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1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2
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Offline Huzo

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Anyway..... It's a nicely proportioned looking beastie with enough throwback to credentialed bikes to hold it's head up. Would be a lovely thing to start out on (or finish up on, if you were happy with a 250), it's got a stocky balanced look and seems simple in it's design brief from what I can see anyway. I hope they sell lots of them.

Moto

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...new 250 twin
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2016, 10:59:35 PM »
Cute little bike. Ducati tank, somewhat Morini/Honda looking engine and Guzzi bits as well.
Todd.



Not as small as it might seem -- its wheelbase is within a half-inch of the Guzzi V7 II Racer. Here's a to-scale presentation I prepared to compare it, the Guzzi, and the SYM Wolf 150, which is quite a bit smaller.

The claimed specific power does seem low compared to the Wolf (but not so much compared to the Guzzi). Maybe they made the mistake of claiming only rear wheel power? Looking at the selected specs on the right of my illustration, it continues to seem attractive.

Moto

P.S. You can see the orange "measuring sticks" I made below each bike, with wheelbase lengths in pixels and scaled inches, which I used to scale the photos. My numerical values were taken from corporate web pages.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 12:18:27 AM by Moto »

Moto

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Now that photobucket is back up, I have another comparison to show, this time with the previously-mentioned Moto Morini 250 2C. All images are again displayed at the same scale, but I used a 19-inch ruler to match the rim of the 18-inch front tire for the Morini, since I could not find the wheelbase online.



Other observations:

SSR vs Morini: The Morini is a good bit smaller than the SSR. It also has a higher compression ratio (CR), which helps account for the horsepower difference. A test ride in Nepal (!) stated the SSR has a good spread of power, which is more desirable than peak horsepower to me. 

Here is the interesting Nepalese review, where the Buccaneer is characterized as a scrambler: http://autolife.com.np/italjetbuccaneer-250i-the-essence-of-motorcycling-testride-firstride-review-nepal/. (It is called the Italjet Buccaneer there.) It has some nice close-up photos, including of the dual-purpose tires [edit: seen in the US model too].

The SSR and the Guzzi have the same ergonomic triangle, except that the handlebars of the SSR are higher, something easily changed.

The SSR has a claimed ground clearance of 8 inches, which together with the broad power spread should make it a good casual off-roader (like my old Triumph, not like a modern bike).

The fact that it seems to have been made available in Nepal before we got it suggests it is at heart a somewhat-typical Asian utility bike, with very nice styling and a larger than expected layout for the engine size.

I think I like it more than any of my recent small-bike fancies -- the SYM Wolf, Cleveland Cyclewerks Ace Classic, and Suzuki TU250x.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 11:25:27 AM by Moto »

Offline Huzo

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If that motor was just a bit bigger, it would fill the space very nicely, if you could get it to 500 I reckon it would be a damn nice choice for the right person, but then I guess it'd be heavier and maybe lose some supporter base but it looks really good.

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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If that motor was just a bit bigger, it would fill the space very nicely, if you could get it to 500 I reckon it would be a damn nice choice for the right person, but then I guess it'd be heavier and maybe lose some supporter base but it looks really good.

Maybe the engine from the XV500 Virago would do the trick, although it looks a bit too big. Wider v-angle.

Charlie

oldbike54

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 Seems we are gonna see more of these Chitalian bikes , is Benelli still in business ?

 Dusty

Moto

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Seems we are gonna see more of these Chitalian bikes , is Benelli still in business ?

 Dusty

Apparently it is. SSR distributes Benelli in the U.S.

If that motor was just a bit bigger, it would fill the space very nicely, if you could get it to 500 I reckon it would be a damn nice choice for the right person, but then I guess it'd be heavier and maybe lose some supporter base but it looks really good.

I was waiting for someone to suggest 500cc, but I think you've nailed a good reason not to go there. I'd really like a lighter bike.

In fact while I was out today on my T3 -- in 70 degree weather in Wisconsin in November! -- I was wondering what my backroads route would feel like on a nice 250. With the right suspension components it might be pretty pleasurable. I sure don't find the T3's horsepower, at half that of my Griso, to be any impediment to having fun. How about half again, I wonder.

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Seems we are gonna see more of these Chitalian bikes , is Benelli still in business ?

 Dusty

Yes, owned by a Chinese company. Supposedly still designed and engineered in Italy, but manufactured in China.  :sad:
http://benelli.ssrmotorsports.com/
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 05:54:43 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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In fact while I was out today on my T3 -- in 70 degree weather in Wisconsin in November! -- I was wondering what my backroads route would feel like on a nice 250. With the right suspension components it might be pretty pleasurable. I sure don't find the T3's horsepower, at half that of my Griso, to be any impediment to having fun. How about half again, I wonder.

I rode my Morini 350 K2 more this year than all of my other bikes combined. Why: lighter (350 lbs.), quicker on the roads I ride, 70+ mpg!, great brakes and handling. It seems like I can "think" it through corners, it takes so little effort. Suspension (Marzocchi both ends) is firm, yet compliant enough I don't get beat up. Seat, though hard and crowned is comfortable enough for a 400 mile day. Riding position is about perfect for me. It only has 35 hp, but has a nice wide torque spread. So far it's been completely reliable - no issues at all - just regular maintenance (oil changes and valve adjustments, both ridiculously easy).

Charlie

Moto

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I rode my Morini 350 K2 more this year than all of my other bikes combined. Why: lighter (350 lbs.), quicker on the roads I ride, 70+ mpg!, great brakes and handling. It seems like I can "think" it through corners, it takes so little effort. Suspension (Marzocchi both ends) is firm, yet compliant enough I don't get beat up. Seat, though hard and crowned is comfortable enough for a 400 mile day. Riding position is about perfect for me. It only has 35 hp, but has a nice wide torque spread. So far it's been completely reliable - no issues at all - just regular maintenance (oil changes and valve adjustments, both ridiculously easy).

Nice report. The Morini is in a different league from the SSR with 35hp!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 09:48:01 PM by Moto »

Moto

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TEST RIDE REPORT! (I examined both the Cafe and Classic Buccaneers and took a short test ride today.)

Notes on SSR 250cc Buccaneer Classic and Cafe after my test ride.

I. Specifications from the owner's manual:

320 lbs. -- not the 283 lbs. on the websites (dry/wet not stated)

18 hp -- not the 17.5 on the websites

75 mph top speed

>20 degree climbing ability

valve clearances are specified (.008" IN and EX)

EDIT: I'm pretty sure I saw 3.5 gallons as the fuel capacity in the owner's manual, but didn't write it down. I've now noticed 14 liters being cited in an Indian review, so I'm pretty comfortable saying the 4.5 gallons claimed on the websites is incorrect. (Also, the tank seems like about 3.5 gallons as I remember it.)

II. My examination of the two bikes:

gas tank and front fender: steel (checked with a magnet)

rear fender: plastic

side panels: coated aluminum (I believe - not magnetic, but metal)

exhaust/muffler: stainless steel (not magnetic, and right color)

wheel rims: painted aluminum (I believe - not magnetic)

headlamp/turnsignal housings: plastic, black on Classic, chrome on Cafe

fork tubes: 36mm (by my measurement with a tape) EDIT: An Indian review says 41mm, so I would remeasure if I had another chance; still think I'm close to the real value.

rear monoshock: preload-adjustable (no damping adjustments)

tires: dual-sport, nice tread, but unknown brand (to me)

skid plate: thin-looking from a distance; material not determined

finish/paint: both the Green Classic and the White/Red Cafe are very nicely finished, but the Cafe is stunning in sunlight and much more attractive. Looked as good as Japanese bikes to me.

Classic's bench seat: also fits on the Cafe

Cafe's bumstop seat: plastic housing can be removed, but the revealed back of the seat has the same contour as the housing

tool kit: comparable to 1960's Japanese bikes

III. Testimony of the dealers:

SSRs are very well built, with very high quality control.

Another SSR, a 50cc, is winning races for them, and has interchangeable parts with a Honda -- they have used a Honda cylinder head and other parts as part of their hop-up efforts.

Have heard rumors that SSR has purchased old "patents" (really blueprints?) from Japanese makers, and would not be surprised if some Yamaha parts could interchange on the Buccaneer.

IV. My test ride on the Buccaneer Cafe:

A short ride down the street (1/2 mile?), to maybe 45 mph.

Shorter side trip up and down a smooth dirt road, w/ light gravel.

Very stable steering and great traction on the dirt at 35 mph.

Transmission did not feel as nice as a Griso, but no problems.

Only mild acceleration, to say the least.

Feels like a full size bike, 31" seat height, but lightweight.

The Cafe's seat is narrow and hard, but was comfortable during the short ride, with the bumstop a nice feature.

The footpegs are in a good position -- like a 1960's standard bike. EDIT: Really more rearset than that. Right under the middle of the seat, same position as on the V7 Racer. (Didn't try standing on them, but it seems it could work with the high handlebars.)

The single instrument has an analog tach, digital speedo and gear indicator (and other stuff). Looks somewhat cheesy though.

Fuel injected, cranks automatically until it starts.

EDIT: Forgot to mention -- It had a surprisingly loud, deep and attractive V-twin exhaust note for its size, I thought.

V. Other observations:

The bore and stroke exactly match the Yamaha SRV250's.

This bike is a scrambler in the 1960's mode, with cafe styling.

The red frame reminds me of the 1960's Honda CL72/77 scramblers, although the styling similarity to the Guzzi Racer/Stornello is much stronger. (The CL was shorter overall than the SSR, with a shorter wheelbase, though it weighed 30 lbs. more, from what I see in its Wikipedia article. It was also more powerful, according to the same source.)

Great choice for an aging rider, so long as your legs are long enough.

No freeway potential, but probably okay on 55mph-posted highways.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 09:45:25 AM by Moto »

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...SSR threadfest .
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2016, 10:59:57 PM »
 :thumb:
Charlie

Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...SSR threadfest .
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2016, 05:48:09 PM »
There's also a difference between SAE and BHP horsepower ratings.  In the past they used SAE ratings, which might be optimistic compared to bhp ratings.

My `07 250 MP3, 4valve, w/c, EFI, 22.5 hp will do 77 mph w/475# weight.

Moto

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...SSR threadfest .
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2016, 10:42:29 PM »
My last one -- the two Stornellos compared to the SSR.


oldbike54

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...SSR threadfest .
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2016, 11:07:46 PM »
There's also a difference between SAE and BHP horsepower ratings.  In the past they used SAE ratings, which might be optimistic compared to bhp ratings.

My `07 250 MP3, 4valve, w/c, EFI, 22.5 hp will do 77 mph w/475# weight.

 Wayne , do you mean SAE vs DIN ?

 Dusty

Moto

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Re: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...SSR threadfest .
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2016, 05:31:29 PM »
Review just posted at motorcycle.com -- seems to have stolen the name of this thread and the comparison to the Stornello!

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/ssr/2017-ssr-buccaneer-cafe-review.html

Moto

 

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