Why push button start NGC car?

[Sheepdog]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Luddism

All of the success in my life was somehow related to my ability to adapt. When I had an old BMW, I learned about winding coils, dressing generator brushes, and carburetor tuning. When I got a Tandy computer, I memorized commands. When I joined the Army, I learned land navigation...and so forth. I don�t have a huge need for most of this knowledge anymore, as technologies have automated much of what I once had to do myself. However, shunning technology just because it has made old skills redundant is self-defeating. Once the box is open, it can�t be closed again...these technologies will be around until some sort of apocalypse takes away our ability to wield them.

In my view, we should strive to understand as much as we can about as many things as we can. That means embracing both old and new. Will this allow us to put aside our fears and bring our species to a more enlightened place? Maybe not, but I�m keeping my head out of the sand just the same.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

It's all "fun and games" until some fantastic new AI decides we're redundant... 

[Lannis]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Luddism

All of the success in my life was somehow related to my ability to adapt. When I had an old BMW, I learned about winding coils, dressing generator brushes, and carburetor tuning. When I got a Tandy computer, I memorized commands. When I joined the Army, I learned land navigation...and so forth. I don�t have a huge need for most of this knowledge anymore, as technologies have automated much of what I once had to do myself. However, shunning technology just because it has made old skills redundant is self-defeating. Once the box is open, it can�t be closed again...these technologies will be around until some sort of apocalypse takes away our ability to wield them.

In my view, we should strive to understand as much as we can about as many things as we can. That means embracing both old and new. Will this allow us to put aside our fears and bring our species to a more enlightened place? Maybe not, but I�m keeping my head out of the sand just the same.

Lots of really slanted statements in there.   "...put aside our fears"  "....more enlightened place"   "...head out of the sand ..."

As is "Embracing" the "New" just because it is new is an unalloyed Good Thing.   It's not always good.   It's not always feared.   "New" things are not always "enlightened".   Failing to "embrace" new technology does not mean you have your "head in the sand".

New technologies MAY be in place because someone invented something and then invented a demand for it so that they could make money.    They may be in place to make people more dependent on things they have to subscribe to, update, and pay for because that helps someone else, not them.   And (especially in the case of remotely trackable and controllable devices and equipment) it MAY help a Big Brother somewhere (financial, government, foreign, who knows) keep tabs on you, direct you, and keep you doing what they want you to do.

Being discerning and cautious about "embracing new technologies" is, in my mind, a much more rational course than immediately making yourself dependent on one more thing over which you have no control, and certainly more rational than exposing yourself to a new addiction of which you say "It's just a tool to me, no problem".   

If you think smart phones (for example) are just a tool and not an addiction, you haven't been very observant of the ever-more-Borg-like young people for whom life doesn't exist unless it's experienced through the medium of their phone, and who are unable to interact normally with others face to face.

Even among older folks, the question is "Must I have a new GPS to get to Alaska, or can I use my old one?"   The question of "Do I even need one at all?" isn't even asked, despite the fact that people have been living in Deadhorse for 120 years .....

Lannis

[steven c]

 Wow 4 pages! Now that we have the car I'm really impressed, very upscale look and feel, way beyond what we paid, makes my 2012 Forester feel cheap and tinny, avg 38mpg so far can't argue with that.Drives like a sport sedan, real fun on a back road.  Every evening I sit down with the owners manual to figure all the features it has and how to use the info center and program the key  FOB. I learned it has regenerative braking which no review ever mentioned, part of the Sky Active thing, it has a giant capacitor to help with the electrical load. I hope that never needs to be replaced.

[Sheepdog]

Lots of really slanted statements in there.   "...put aside our fears"  "....more enlightened place"   "...head out of the sand ..."
Lannis

You may have misunderstood. I didn�t say, �no.� I said, �know...� I think that we agree, Lannis.

[Lannis]

You may have misunderstood. ....

Wouldn't be the first time ... !   I did read it carefully though.

Lannis

[Rick in WNY]

I know of too many cars under 15 years old that are in the junk yard because the computer costs $2000+ to replace, and no knew ones are to be found.

Buddy of mine just took his 2015 Ram 2500 in for service because he wasn't getting heat in the cab. They come back with two problems. First is a bad thermostat, $40 part. The second is a bad "Cabin Temperature Control Module" -  aka, the knob you turn to select hot or cold air was faulty. But, you can't replace just the little knob. Ram only sells the whole assembly, for $450 plus they have to disassemble the dash to change it. Nearly $1000 bill to get his truck fixed, but it was still under warranty.

Service guy told him he was lucky. They had a 2016 Ram that's basically the same truck. But by then it had the controls linked into the "infotainment" system. $3000 computer module that is basically the entire dash console got replaced. Guy had to do it because darn near everything in the truck runs through or is controlled by that system. It's an expensive single point of failure... and a bad overall design.

[Tusayan]

Wow 4 pages! Now that we have the car I'm really impressed, very upscale look and feel, way beyond what we paid, makes my 2012 Forester feel cheap and tinny, avg 38mpg so far can't argue with that.Drives like a sport sedan, real fun on a back road.  Every evening I sit down with the owners manual to figure all the features it has and how to use the info center and program the key  FOB. I learned it has regenerative braking which no review ever mentioned, part of the Sky Active thing, it has a giant capacitor to help with the electrical load. I hope that never needs to be replaced.

Mazdas are IMHO the best deal in new cars, you get a better car for your money than elsewhere.   You might check on the regenerative braking thing, I was led to believe it was an $800 option available in Gran Touring trim only.   They've discontinued it for 2018.

[steven c]

 Your right the regen braking is in the Tech package which this car doesn't have. The owners manual covers everything like all the models have it. I really don't want it ,a little bit of to much tech.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

My "new" car:



'89 Mercedes 190E 2.6 (six cylinder), with only 78k miles on it. Garage queen most it's life.

I'm a "happy camper".

[Gliderjohn]

Sharp looking Mercedes you have there, enjoy.
GliderJohn

[Gliderjohn]

Concerning classics, my primary flight instructor drove one of these in the same color. It was his baby.



GliderJohn

[twowings]

Avanti!!

[RinTinHat]

oldbike54,

I just commented (in a different thread) to "Muzz" in Christchurch, NZ, that I used to have a 1961 Morris Minor when I lived in Auckland in '87.

Not only did it have a floor mounted starter button, it also had an opening under the front grille to insert a crank handle! It was surely a hoot. Dang thing never died, it just kept dragging its carcass down the road. Miss that car.

Fob's are for pocket watches.

-Jesse

[ozziguzzi]

That's exactly what my Grandfather used to say about electric windows!

and my grandfather said the same about the crank handle that he got with his Model T Ford. - "Jist another thing to go wrong"

[ozziguzzi]

Maybe not.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/27/mercedes-car-stolen-without-using-key-seconds-relay-theft/

Mark Silvester, from the West Midlands Police crime reduction team, said car owners can protect against this type of theft by using a Thatcham-approved steering lock to cover the entire steering wheel.

what does this mean???????

[ozziguzzi]

For the record, GM start/stop uses a heavy duty alternator, with a serpentine belt dual action self adjuster. When restarting, the generator/starter is spun up, rotating the engine via the belt. There is an external trans fluid pump to keep the clutches engaged, and an extra AGM battery in the trunk to keep the electrics alive .

I have a Fiat 500S and I've had a friend say to me - DO NOT disconnect the battery ( to recharge on a bench) or take a terminal off to reduce the battery drain in the airport long term carpark for a month. Said the car will go in to THEFT mode if no power to ECU, and i'll have to get it towed to a dealer (200kms away) to get it reborn. So sounds like I've got to keep another battery hooked up to leads if need to replace old one.

Is this true or FAKE NEWS.

[pat80flh]

I couldn't speak to the electric design of Fiats.  The extra AGM battery I spoke of in a GM stop/start car is there to keep solid current flowing to the ECM during the enormous load plkaced on the battery while it spins up the alternator to restart the engine  at the light.

    Most newer cars are capable of recognizing a draw like the trunk being left open, and turning off the trunk light after a certain period of time, as long as that light is controlled by the body computer.

   No car I have ever seen will lockout just from the battery being disconnected. Fiats could be different. Check the owners manual.

   That being said, for years I have been using a jump box or spare battery  to put power to the car through the fuse box or remote jump start connection  to keep electronics alive while changing a customers battery, to save myself the time of resetting clocks/radio presets/calendars.

    It doesn't take much juice to keep a computers memory alive, especially when it's asleep. It takes a good solid 12 volts for a computer to make a car operate properly.

[Rough Edge racing]

I have a Fiat 500S and I've had a friend say to me - DO NOT disconnect the battery ( to recharge on a bench) or take a terminal off to reduce the battery drain in the airport long term carpark for a month. Said the car will go in to THEFT mode if no power to ECU, and i'll have to get it towed to a dealer (200kms away) to get it reborn. So sounds like I've got to keep another battery hooked up to leads if need to replace old one.

Is this true or FAKE NEWS.

 I'm no expert but it does sound like fake news...My 03 Chevy base model Rustarado has a security feature that will make the factory CD/stereo player "inactive" if it's removed without having the key in the ignition... Or something like that .....If I disconnect the battery on our 90's Jeeps and the 03 Chevy, the radio loses it's memory.. I disconnected the battery on the 09 Ford Ranger for 1/2 hour and the radio stations were still programed...New vehicles may retain all info when the battery is disconnected ???
  Times have changed...When I got a driver's license in 1964 my first car was a 56 Ford V8 with a manual transmission. The battery went dead and I had no money for a new one ... I lived in a hilly area so it was easy to park on a hill and then roll and jump start the engine..You can do this with a generator, but not with brush style alternator that became standard on cars from about 1963...

[mechanicsavant]

I'm with Steve C (from pg1)mostly. A local locksmith not only sells remotes ,about $35 they also give you printed instructions. If you fail to program it in there parking lot they charge $10 to do it ! Also if your remote "failed to live up to its design potential" or broke. They will rebuild it for $20-25 .When I was in the service dept. @ dealerships up-sell was mandatory when doing minor jobs ! Find something was the order from service Mgr.

[circlip]

Interesting thread...I just replaced my beloved 2006 Mazda 6 Wagon (losing oil in all of the most unreachable locations imaginable) with a 2015 Mazda 3 Hatch, 2.5 liter. While it is not as "planted" or stable at high speeds as the 6 was, it is a hoot to drive!

I don't dislike the starter button, but it is taking a while for my brain to reprogram. I keep pulling out the fob as I approach the car, thinking I need it to unlock and start the thing. Once I sit down, I have to tell myself to push the button instead of reaching for the key and push the button instead of turning the key when I stop. I'm trying to rewire 45+ years of sticking a key in the ignition switch. Its been about six weeks now and it isn't natural yet. I'm sure I will get there, but I am an old dog.

This was a "Pre-Owned Certified" (i.e., Used with a warranty) Mazda, but it did come with two fobs. I just don't ever want to lose one.

[Tom]

You don't want to go swimming at the beach with one in your pocket either. 

[Kev m]

You don't want to go swimming at the beach with one in your pocket either. 

ACTUALLY, that's not always the case. Well sorta, LandRover and Jaguar for instance offers the option of a lifestyle key (a waterproof, wearable watch-like fob which locks and unlocks the doors. You keep the regular fob inside the vehicle and they become disabled until you unlock it and get in with your wrist-band key).



Kinda like Disney's magic bands.

[Tom]

Sounds like the exception to the rule.  Wonder how many other manufacturers have gone that route.

[Kev m]

Sounds like the exception to the rule.  Wonder how many other manufacturers have gone that route.

Have or will?

First one I've heard of, but we'll see.

[Tom]

Hopefully the waterproofing is seawater.  Very corrosive for electronic parts.  Seawater is listed by IATA for airfreight shipping as a corrosive.

[LowRyter]

Buddy of mine just took his 2015 Ram 2500 in for service because he wasn't getting heat in the cab. They come back with two problems. First is a bad thermostat, $40 part. The second is a bad "Cabin Temperature Control Module" -  aka, the knob you turn to select hot or cold air was faulty. But, you can't replace just the little knob. Ram only sells the whole assembly, for $450 plus they have to disassemble the dash to change it. Nearly $1000 bill to get his truck fixed, but it was still under warranty.

Service guy told him he was lucky. They had a 2016 Ram that's basically the same truck. But by then it had the controls linked into the "infotainment" system. $3000 computer module that is basically the entire dash console got replaced. Guy had to do it because darn near everything in the truck runs through or is controlled by that system. It's an expensive single point of failure... and a bad overall design.

sounds like dealer BS

[Kev m]

Hopefully the waterproofing is seawater.  Very corrosive for electronic parts.  Seawater is listed by IATA for airfreight shipping as a corrosive.

They demonstrate it with a surfer, ya know, for all those Land Rover and Jaguar owners who surf.

[Tom]

I know a lot of surfers that use Land Rovers and Jags.......NOT.     Historically surfers can't keep a job 'cuz when "surf's up" they're gone.  It would have to be someone that got their money the old fashion way.  They inherited it.