Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 08:33:03 AM

Title: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 08:33:03 AM
Ok so Iím a bit fickle in buying bikes, just ask Enzo.  :embarrassed:
Anyway, I've been looking at 2 cruisers lately, specifically the;

* 2010+ Triumph Thunderbird, the 1700
* 2009 Yamaha VStar 1300

Now I have owned and ridden many Guzziís including the 1400 and Iím just not a Harley guy, sorry KevM.  :wink:
So, what comments, real world experiences etc. does the brain trust here have?

Thanks mates,
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Ncdan on April 13, 2021, 08:47:38 AM
For a straight cruiser, even though you said HD is out, you are doing yourself an injustice not to at the least give them a look see. They are plentiful and under market value, at least in my area.
Iíve owned a 1400 Guzzi and they are great cruiser position bikes. However I had an ongoing issue with my 2015 tourer and it had to go.
I had a 2008 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 which proved itself to be a great cruiser/tourer. It was bulletproof!
All of your metrics make a solid cruiser style motorcycle.
You ask for opinions so hereís mine, good luck in your search efforts. The only advice I would give it when you buy try and not be over the recoup value when you purchase 👍
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 13, 2021, 08:49:28 AM
As an alternative, I present to you..."Moby Dick", aka "The Great White Whale" - 2014 Victory Vision Tour :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :shocked: :shocked: :huh: :huh: :thumb: :bow: :boozing: :cool: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:


(https://i.ibb.co/r5kmm00/IMG-0266.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r5kmm00)

(https://i.ibb.co/BfqGJy9/DSC-0002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BfqGJy9)
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 08:54:25 AM
For a straight cruiser, even though you said HD is out, you are doing yourself an injustice not to at the least give them a look see. They are plentiful and under market value, at least in my area.
Iíve owned a 1400 Guzzi and they are great cruiser position bikes. However I had an ongoing issue with my 2015 tourer and it had to go.
I had a 2008 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 which proved itself to be a great cruiser/tourer. It was bulletproof!
All of your metrics make a solid cruiser style motorcycle.
You ask for opinions so hereís mine, good luck in your search efforts. The only advice I would give it when you buy try and not be over the recoup value when you purchase 👍
Thanks NcDan
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 08:55:30 AM
As an alternative, I present to you..."Moby Dick", aka "The Great White Whale" - 2014 Victory Vision Tour :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :shocked: :shocked: :huh: :huh: :thumb: :bow: :boozing: :cool: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:


(https://i.ibb.co/r5kmm00/IMG-0266.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r5kmm00)

(https://i.ibb.co/BfqGJy9/DSC-0002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BfqGJy9)

Hey JJ
Victory makes great bikes but that one is HUGE!
I would need another garage lol
Thanks
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: roadventure on April 13, 2021, 09:04:10 AM

* 2010+ Triumph Thunderbird, the 1700
* 2009 Yamaha VStar 1300

Guzziís including the 1400
Thanks mates,
inditx

All three are excellent bikes.  I am partial to the Yamaha due to a certain feeling they impart regarding styling.  That said I currently own a California 1400 which has pleasantly surprised me constantly.

Someone mentioned a Victory Vision and lots of people will mock them; mostly those who have never ridden one.  The Vision is a superb bike and one of the most comfortable I have ridden.  It has great weather protection, is very reliable and comfortable.  If long distance riding is your thing it would be a great choice.

To add to your list you might also want to look at the Yamaha Road Star and Yamaha Roadliner.  Larger V-Twins than the V-Star and more developed design wise.  I have also owned a 2000 Road Star (carb version) and it is just a solid bike, fun bike.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Kev m on April 13, 2021, 09:06:00 AM
So I wasn't going to reply because I don't know either of those bikes well enough and you already said no Harley.

But here's how I would go about considering them both:

* FIRST - plain and simple - find and ride them see which one fits best. The aftermarket is smaller for both and you don't have nearly the options to make it fit better that you do on Harleys. Both sound pretty big and I might lean toward the Vstar just because it's less "excessive" in engine size (but I don't know actual mass of both so that is probably more important).

* NEXT - find out about maintenance. Valve adjustments or hydro? (I'd go hydro unless the adjustments are easy). Belt/shaft/Chain? Some of the Yamaha cruisers had stupid design issues, like exhausts in the way of the oil filter so you'd have to remove part of the exhaust to change the oil. Hopefully that's a thing of the past on these.

* DEALER SUPPORT - what's it like in your area (if you care about it).

* AFTERMARKET SUPPORT - see first step. Can you get any things you might want for it?

* Finally check Brand/Model forums to see if there are any weird things that might exclude one or the other for you. Though I suspect both brands to be pretty reliable you never know if there is some maddening quirk or failure on one that might be a deal breaker.


Honestly Just hearing the names I think I'd lean towards the Triumph because it would be more euro-cool in my mind, but as soon as I say that I start thinking "why so big, why not a Bonnie variant then - like the Triumph America or even the damn Bobber which is a really cool bike"

So that's my best attempt to be helpful. Have fun and be sure to share what you decide to educate us all!

Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 09:08:51 AM
All three are excellent bikes.  I am partial to the Yamaha due to a certain feeling they impart regarding styling.  That said I currently own a California 1400 which has pleasantly surprised me constantly.

Someone mentioned a Victory Vision and lots of people will mock them; mostly those who have never ridden one.  The Vision is a superb bike and one of the most comfortable I have ridden.  It has great weather protection, is very reliable and comfortable.  If long distance riding is your thing it would be a great choice.

To add to your list you might also want to look at the Yamaha Road Star and Yamaha Roadliner.  Larger V-Twins than the V-Star and more developed design wise.  I have also owned a 2000 Road Star (carb version) and it is just a solid bike, fun bike.
:thumb:
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 09:14:19 AM
So I wasn't going to reply because I don't know either of those bikes well enough and you already said no Harley.

But here's how I would go about considering them both:

* FIRST - plain and simple - find and ride them see which one fits best. The aftermarket is smaller for both and you don't have nearly the options to make it fit better that you do on Harleys. Both sound pretty big and I might lean toward the Vstar just because it's less "excessive" in engine size (but I don't know actual mass of both so that is probably more important).

* NEXT - find out about maintenance. Valve adjustments or hydro? (I'd go hydro unless the adjustments are easy). Belt/shaft/Chain? Some of the Yamaha cruisers had stupid design issues, like exhausts in the way of the oil filter so you'd have to remove part of the exhaust to change the oil. Hopefully that's a thing of the past on these.

* DEALER SUPPORT - what's it like in your area (if you care about it).

* AFTERMARKET SUPPORT - see first step. Can you get any things you might want for it?

* Finally check Brand/Model forums to see if there are any weird things that might exclude one or the other for you. Though I suspect both brands to be pretty reliable you never know if there is some maddening quirk or failure on one that might be a deal breaker.


Honestly Just hearing the names I think I'd lean towards the Triumph because it would be more euro-cool in my mind, but as soon as I say that I start thinking "why so big, why not a Bonnie variant then - like the Triumph America or even the damn Bobber which is a really cool bike"

So that's my best attempt to be helpful. Have fun and be sure to share what you decide to educate us all!

Thanks KevM, as always very helpful.
The 1300 does weigh less than the 1700 but shorter wheelbase makes the Thunderbird look a little cramped for 2 up, still cool though
No speedmaster or smaller bonnie 'cause I want a belt this time around   :boozing:
Hydraulic valves on the Yammie, shim and bucket on Trumpet
I have 2 good dealers locally for either
The Triumph can have a chirpy belt is about all Iíve heard and the Yammie appears to be bullet proof
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: kingoffleece on April 13, 2021, 09:14:44 AM
I ran The Rat Pac for years at a Triumph/Victory dealer.  Know all the bikes well.  Thunderbird 1600 (I owned a 2010) was really a boring bike.
I only bought it on a trade in as I got a great price.  Sold it to buy a V7!
The Vision was far and away the best of the Victory cruisers IMO.  If you gel with the look it's a fabulous machine in it's class.  Of the 3, I'd buy the Guzzi as it has even more character, again, for me.  The Vision was really good, though.  As a lifelong Triumph guy I was a bit surprised how quickly I got bored with the T-Bird.  It was too bland.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 13, 2021, 09:23:01 AM
I ran The Rat Pac for years at a Triumph/Victory dealer.  Know all the bikes well.  Thunderbird 1600 (I owned a 2010) was really a boring bike.
I only bought it on a trade in as I got a great price.  Sold it to buy a V7!
The Vision was far and away the best of the Victory cruisers IMO.  If you gel with the look it's a fabulous machine in it's class.  Of the 3, I'd buy the Guzzi as it has even more character, again, for me.  The Vision was really good, though.  As a lifelong Triumph guy I was a bit surprised how quickly I got bored with the T-Bird.  It was too bland.

Of course, in the end, it's all about which motorcycle "floats your boat", and appeals to you emotionally.... :cool: :thumb: :boozing: :smiley: :wink:

* Can't go wrong with a modern Triumph...
* Same for a Big Twin Harley, for all the reasons Kevm mentioned...I have owned 5 - great bikes! :thumb:
* I have several friends with the 1400 Guzzi...also a great touring bike...
* No more Victory's after 2017, but they are quite the open road cruiser...
* Long wheelbase and LOW to the ground makes the handling easy... :thumb: Mine has the factory 1" lowering kit so the seat height is 25 inches. 
* It is really no bigger than a Gold Wing or Ultra Classic HD.
*It's loses 200 lbs. the minute you let the clutch out...


(https://i.ibb.co/SPjhWwb/Screen-Shot-2021-04-13-at-7-17-17-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/SPjhWwb)


Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: kingoffleece on April 13, 2021, 09:26:26 AM
Yep.  I really liked the way the Vision rode and handled.  It's really a well done machine.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 09:26:50 AM
I ran The Rat Pac for years at a Triumph/Victory dealer.  Know all the bikes well.  Thunderbird 1600 (I owned a 2010) was really a boring bike.
I only bought it on a trade in as I got a great price.  Sold it to buy a V7!
The Vision was far and away the best of the Victory cruisers IMO.  If you gel with the look it's a fabulous machine in it's class.  Of the 3, I'd buy the Guzzi as it has even more character, again, for me.  The Vision was really good, though.  As a lifelong Triumph guy I was a bit surprised how quickly I got bored with the T-Bird.  It was too bland.
Thanks King
I wonder if the 1700 makes enough difference as to not be bland...hhmmmm
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 09:29:29 AM
Keep em coming guy and gals, great feedback
Thanks to you all, I will consider a Vision and maybe even gulp...a Harley.
All my Harley buddies are gonna faint if I end up with one..... :rolleyes:
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Kev m on April 13, 2021, 09:31:24 AM
Thanks KevM, as always very helpful.
The 1300 does weigh less than the 1700 but shorter wheelbase makes the Thunderbird look a little cramped for 2 up, still cool though
No speedmaster or smaller bonnie 'cause I want a belt this time around   :boozing:
Hydraulic valves on the Yammie, shim and bucket on Trumpet
I have 2 good dealers locally for either
The Triumph can have a chirpy belt is about all Iíve heard and the Yammie appears to be bullet proof
inditx

Man, other than the wheelbase/2-up (if that's a priority) your answers make me want the Vstar.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Murray on April 13, 2021, 09:38:46 AM
KTM superduke GT.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: kingoffleece on April 13, 2021, 10:07:48 AM
1700 just a bit "meaner".  No real difference with on the road performance.
Watch for the cam decompression device.  It's press fit on the end of the cam so the motor will spin with those huge pistons.  We replaced a few at around 25K as the Press fit goes south and it just spins doing nothing.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Jorg66 on April 13, 2021, 10:22:09 AM
May sound silly ,had Metric ,...Honda VTX 1300 C [Sport ]and converted it to longhaul Tourer, ....Like mentioned by many before ,All Metric's are bulletproof and easy to maintain/fix , my Honda ,never ever a problem .
In your case i tend to go with a Yamaha,many of them around here ,only thing you have to do is check the oil and p'push the [starter] button.
For me ,....I just wanted a Cali 1400 soooooo bad ,thats why the Honda isnt here anymore plus this guzzi Virus made me buy another one ,..V7.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Kev m on April 13, 2021, 10:26:40 AM
All Metric's are bulletproof and easy to maintain/fix

Facts not in evidence.

Though I might even accept this statement if it was "are GENERALLY" or "MANY are" or something like that.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: jcctx on April 13, 2021, 12:57:46 PM
Owned a VStar 1300 for 15K miles. Great cruiser/tourer. Also had a Guzzi EV (2001) for 24K miles; very good but not quite as good as the newer Yamaha!!! Also owned a '96 Ultra-glide (the anniversary, fuel injected version). Nothing better on the hiway but heavy every where else.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: GeorgiaGuzzi on April 13, 2021, 01:14:31 PM
You mentioned the triumph being prone to a chirpy belt. Having had a Victory V92 with a squealing belt issue Iíd say avoid that one if you dislike irritating high pitched noises. One of the reasons I traded my V92 for a Trophy 900.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Jorg66 on April 13, 2021, 04:35:42 PM
Kevm,well than i will 're-formulate" to very many are ... :laugh:
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 04:44:53 PM
1700 just a bit "meaner".  No real difference with on the road performance.
Watch for the cam decompression device.  It's press fit on the end of the cam so the motor will spin with those huge pistons.  We replaced a few at around 25K as the Press fit goes south and it just spins doing nothing.
Good to know, thanks,
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: moto-uno on April 13, 2021, 04:47:01 PM
  Retired from a Yamaha dealership a few years ago , the V-star was nice But , the 1900 was great . not sporty at all , but a motor that never strained . All
the time there I didn't understand the 1300 V Star at all . Do love my 2018 Eldorado . I just got back from a roadtest of a 2020 T120 , once again very nice,
but jeez is that thing little . Great for fun riding , but probably only 2 up on shorter day trips YMMV , but I just know I'm right :) . Peter
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: jackthebiker on April 13, 2021, 04:55:13 PM
I think my 2019 Road King is the perfect "touring cruiser", I was anti HD until I bought my 2010 Electra Glide that was flawless for the 20,000 miles I owned it. I have had 4 Victorys and loved them all, they are great bikes, however the dealer support is disappearing.  The Vision is a lot larger and more of a handful than a Cross Country, the Cross Country will also haul more. I had 2 Indians, they are far from perfect but good bikes, my 2014 Vintage and my 2015 Chieftain were more of a low speed handful than my Road King. My wife and I have owned lots of Yamahas and Honda cruisers, great bikes, but the last bike that I had that broke down was my 2007 Royal Star Venture a year after I bought it new, the fuel pump went out. I could go on and on, 42 motorcycles from 11 different brands.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Huzo on April 13, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Are you changing bikes because you are looking for something new ?
You will never like a bike more than the day you bought it, so you may very well never stop buying new bikes. I still enjoy the rush of buying a new bike, more than owning that new bike, however I seem to be growing out of that mindset.
I am convinced that if I donít crash either of them, I wonít buy another bike for myself from here on.
Just get one, and go places on it. Itís not the bike you tire of, itís the lack of inspiration as to what do do on it. Try getting a 2VPC Norge and circumnavigate North America, that should get you out of the doldrums.... :bike-037:
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Milosh on April 13, 2021, 05:59:16 PM
Have you looked at Indian?

If I was going to buy a cruiser cruiser, I'd think about the new Rebel 1100 as well.

Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: rschrum on April 13, 2021, 06:01:35 PM
Audance.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 07:45:01 PM
  Retired from a Yamaha dealership a few years ago , the V-star was nice But , the 1900 was great . not sporty at all , but a motor that never strained . All
the time there I didn't understand the 1300 V Star at all . Do love my 2018 Eldorado . I just got back from a roadtest of a 2020 T120 , once again very nice,
but jeez is that thing little . Great for fun riding , but probably only 2 up on shorter day trips YMMV , but I just know I'm right :) . Peter

Moto-uno
Thatís interesting. So the 1900 was that much more bike or was the 1300 just not that much of a bike?
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 07:46:55 PM
Are you changing bikes because you are looking for something new ?
You will never like a bike more than the day you bought it, so you may very well never stop buying new bikes. I still enjoy the rush of buying a new bike, more than owning that new bike, however I seem to be growing out of that mindset.
I am convinced that if I donít crash either of them, I wonít buy another bike for myself from here on.
Just get one, and go places on it. Itís not the bike you tire of, itís the lack of inspiration as to what do do on it. Try getting a 2VPC Norge and circumnavigate North America, that should get you out of the doldrums.... :bike-037:
You are right sir as I do love the hunt and catch.
This time I want something for 2 up and more distance.
Keeping the VStrom for other duties.
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 13, 2021, 07:48:13 PM
Have you looked at Indian?

If I was going to buy a cruiser cruiser, I'd think about the new Rebel 1100 as well.
I have not as I want something used and not sure what I'd even look at in the Indian line.
Have you suggestions?
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Shorty on April 14, 2021, 11:52:21 PM
If possible, take lengthy test rides on  prospective cruiser bikes if you have not owned one before. I bought a Bonneville America that was in very nice shape to alleviate leg pain on longer rides. I found that riding style to be comfortable ONLY when moving in a fairly straight line on flat terrain. Yes, my legs felt better, but the bike felt like it was 'falling" into turns. Red lights and stop signs became a game of either leave the bike in gear, or do an awkward dance to put the bike into gear. No biggie for some folks, but not confidence inspiring for me. I gladly sold it after a few months. Do your homework.  :wink: 
(https://i.ibb.co/rsKMWGY/2014-Triumph-America-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rsKMWGY)
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Stretch on April 15, 2021, 09:52:32 AM
I like my 2011 Triumph Rocket III Touring.

Very comfortable for 300- 400 mile days.

Stable as hell, even among trucks and with heavy crosswinds.
And the massive torque is addicting!  :cool: No need for downshifts
to pass on the highway - even loaded and 2 up. The California
1400  - while no slouch - is wimpy by comparison. 'Course the
Cali has better handling and better brakes. The Rocket is fine
when it's cranked over, but yer certainly not gonna do anything
heroic mid-corner. Definitely a case of set things up and drive it
through.

Against this, the Rocket is a bit top-heavy at parking lot speeds,
and requires that one pay attention - more so than the California.

                                                -Stretch
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 15, 2021, 06:42:17 PM
Quote
Keep em coming guy and gals, great feedback
None of the above.. :evil:



I'm just not a cruiser kind of guy, I guess. Had one. Hated it.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 15, 2021, 08:53:52 PM
If possible, take lengthy test rides on  prospective cruiser bikes if you have not owned one before. I bought a Bonneville America that was in very nice shape to alleviate leg pain on longer rides. I found that riding style to be comfortable ONLY when moving in a fairly straight line on flat terrain. Yes, my legs felt better, but the bike felt like it was 'falling" into turns. Red lights and stop signs became a game of either leave the bike in gear, or do an awkward dance to put the bike into gear. No biggie for some folks, but not confidence inspiring for me. I gladly sold it after a few months. Do your homework.  :wink: 
(https://i.ibb.co/rsKMWGY/2014-Triumph-America-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rsKMWGY)

Absolutely. I have owned a few but your remarks still bear heeding.
Thanks
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 15, 2021, 08:55:42 PM
I like my 2011 Triumph Rocket III Touring.

Very comfortable for 300- 400 mile days.

Stable as hell, even among trucks and with heavy crosswinds.
And the massive torque is addicting!  :cool: No need for downshifts
to pass on the highway - even loaded and 2 up. The California
1400  - while no slouch - is wimpy by comparison. 'Course the
Cali has better handling and better brakes. The Rocket is fine
when it's cranked over, but yer certainly not gonna do anything
heroic mid-corner. Definitely a case of set things up and drive it
through.

Against this, the Rocket is a bit top-heavy at parking lot speeds,
and requires that one pay attention - more so than the California.

                                                -Stretch

Hey Stretch,
I had one and what you say is spot on.
The only thing I couldn't get over is it burnt my inner thighs in the summer time.
Cool bike indeed
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 15, 2021, 08:57:43 PM
None of the above.. :evil:



I'm just not a cruiser kind of guy, I guess. Had one. Hated it.
I hear ya Chuck.
Iím reverting back to a cruiser for 2 up and more slab miles.
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Stretch on April 16, 2021, 07:33:33 AM
Quote
The only thing I couldn't get over is it burnt my inner thighs in the summer time.

In the summertime in a traffic jam, you'll be few pounds lighter by the time you're
back on the move! There's A LOT of heat coming off that motor when it's sitting still!

                                                    -Stretch
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: roadventure on April 16, 2021, 08:42:03 AM
So I wasn't going to reply because I don't know either of those bikes well enough and you already said no Harley.

But here's how I would go about considering them both:

* FIRST - plain and simple - find and ride them see which one fits best. The aftermarket is smaller for both and you don't have nearly the options to make it fit better that you do on Harleys. Both sound pretty big and I might lean toward the Vstar just because it's less "excessive" in engine size (but I don't know actual mass of both so that is probably more important).

* NEXT - find out about maintenance. Valve adjustments or hydro? (I'd go hydro unless the adjustments are easy). Belt/shaft/Chain? Some of the Yamaha cruisers had stupid design issues, like exhausts in the way of the oil filter so you'd have to remove part of the exhaust to change the oil. Hopefully that's a thing of the past on these.

Ironically, the VStar 1100 and VStar 1300 you favor DOES have the design issue of the exhaust blocking the oil filter removal.  There is an oil filter relocation kit available. 
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Kev m on April 16, 2021, 08:45:28 AM
Ironically, the VStar 1100 and VStar 1300 you favor DOES have the design issue of the exhaust blocking the oil filter removal.  There is an oil filter relocation kit available.

JEEEZ really? God that problem goes back to the friggin Virago in the 90s. For gawd's sake. So stupid.

And this is one of the many reasons why my "cruiser" looks like this!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c7VbgdiA2UdQt4Xs9-rJTLotar2tEIQvIRnrpQk-jrOJD9-OuylRT754Yf5eiC7sJoRJyKcSpDdaVf03Wt9zQPwp5KyprMgoq55NVhWwGBoL8gcKQ3u3iqIUtI4QN8PXEHfBeky9W0mzMSOwZ3d3j2wQ=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0)

Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: roadventure on April 16, 2021, 08:47:26 AM
You mentioned the triumph being prone to a chirpy belt. Having had a Victory V92 with a squealing belt issue Iíd say avoid that one if you dislike irritating high pitched noises. One of the reasons I traded my V92 for a Trophy 900.

Noises the belt makes are largely a matter of adjustment....
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: roadventure on April 16, 2021, 09:00:02 AM
Moto-uno
Thatís interesting. So the 1900 was that much more bike or was the 1300 just not that much of a bike?
inditx

The VStar 1300 is an overhead cam design with shaft drive.  The Roadliner and Raider using the 1900 V-Twin is a pushrod belt drive design.  Very different performance characteristics.  Of the two, I chose the Raider as I preferred the styling and I already had experience with Yamaha's predecessor to the 1900 engine, their 1600 V-Twin used in the Road Star.

That said, both the VStar 1300 and the 1600/1700/1900 V-Twins are all exceptionally reliable and easy to maintain (with the exception of the 1300 oil filter "snafu".).
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: roadventure on April 16, 2021, 09:04:06 AM
JEEEZ really? God that problem goes back to the friggin Virago in the 90s. For gawd's sake. So stupid.

Agreed.  I can only think one of the reasons it might have been so popular was that most of the buyers did not perform their own maintenance.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Ncdan on April 16, 2021, 09:13:09 AM
JEEEZ really? God that problem goes back to the friggin Virago in the 90s. For gawd's sake. So stupid.

And this is one of the many reasons why my "cruiser" looks like this!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c7VbgdiA2UdQt4Xs9-rJTLotar2tEIQvIRnrpQk-jrOJD9-OuylRT754Yf5eiC7sJoRJyKcSpDdaVf03Wt9zQPwp5KyprMgoq55NVhWwGBoL8gcKQ3u3iqIUtI4QN8PXEHfBeky9W0mzMSOwZ3d3j2wQ=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0)
Nice King Kev! I really hope Inditx gives HD a look, especially if looking at heavy cruisers in the first place. My neighbor had a black 03 King with low mileage and immaculate and can be had for around 6k. It is carbureted but that would be my first choice anyway.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Kev m on April 16, 2021, 09:41:56 AM
Nice King Kev! I really hope Inditx gives HD a look, especially if looking at heavy cruisers in the first place. My neighbor had a black 03 King with low mileage and immaculate and can be had for around 6k. It is carbureted but that would be my first choice anyway.

Nah, when it comes to Harley you have mass production, high quality electronics that are highly tested/vetted, and support everywhere in the US.

The single carb on a Harley was fatally flawed at or near idle speed where the turbulence in the narrow-V shared intake would disrupt the idle quality of one cylinder then the other in an almost random fashion.

The early open-loop weber-marelli EFI used on the EVOs (not sure if it was also used on early TC or if that was already Delphi) was the same nearly bulletproof EFI used on early EFI Guzzi Calis right up through the Jackal. It ran leaner than carbs, but richer than feedback systems and worked beautifully and reliably through the range in all ambient conditions. At its introduction people were freaked out at first, why? Because suddenly their Harleys idled steady and smooth like they'd never done with Carbs.

Time marches on and the closed-loop Delphi system on my TC and the current M8s certainly runs leaner and hotter at times, but it's still an excellent and very predictable/rider friendly system. Couple that with the linked ABS and Brembos on that King and nostalgia aside I would never want to return to a non-Brembo, non-EFI, carbureted Harley for other than novelty/toy use.

YMMV but I'm telling ya - no reason to avoid the Harley EFI bikes - they didn't just use tech for tech's sake, they used it to enhance livability.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Jorg66 on April 16, 2021, 01:55:39 PM
Ohh Man, i admit that I'm not Harley Material,but yours Kev m ,well colour ,That Seat , hmmmm . :bow:
Lol still not a cali 1400  :grin:
Cheers
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Kev m on April 16, 2021, 02:25:08 PM
Ohh Man, i admit that I'm not Harley Material,but yours Kev m ,well colour ,That Seat , hmmmm . :bow:
Lol still not a cali 1400  :grin:
Cheers

 :thumb:

I get it though, there's a lot to like about the Calis....

Ride safe!

Kev
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: kballowe on April 16, 2021, 02:36:01 PM
Ironically, the VStar 1100 and VStar 1300 you favor DOES have the design issue of the exhaust blocking the oil filter removal.  There is an oil filter relocation kit available.

The 1300 VStar has a spin-on filter that is easily accessible from underneath.  They have always been like that.
One need remove nothing to get to it.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: kballowe on April 16, 2021, 02:44:11 PM
We have owned three Yamaha VStar 1300 motorcycles, including one "tour" model with the fairing and hard bags - and currently still own one.  We're mostly 2-up on this one.

No issues.

After owning more than 100 motorcycles, this is one that we are rather fond of.


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51119773271_84d3d2a52b_b.jpg)

Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: rschrum on April 16, 2021, 07:54:18 PM
Closest thing I have to a cruiser. Couldn't resist picking up this almost showroom survivor. 84, v4, shaft drive. it's about half fast for a big pig. Corbin seat came with.

(https://i.ibb.co/j8kcS45/20210328-160219.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j8kcS45)
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: s1120 on April 17, 2021, 05:19:42 AM
Ohh Man, i admit that I'm not Harley Material,but yours Kev m ,well colour ,That Seat , hmmmm . :bow:
Lol still not a cali 1400  :grin:
Cheers

Ya, you know Im not normally a HD guy myself..  But frankly its really tough to look to other brands when you are looking at a big cruzer. More so if your looking for something a few years old.. Prices are good on used one, parts and service are EVERYWHERE, and frankly the modern ones just keep going and going... 
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: kingoffleece on April 17, 2021, 07:20:18 AM
Funny on the R3.  I had an 09 for one season and put close to 14000 on it.  Never found the heat to be too much.  I sold my 14 Norge a short while ago as it was so flipping hot at the feet I'd park it mid June and never look at it until my Oct ride to WV.  It was just much too uncomfortable in summer below the knee. 
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 17, 2021, 09:17:13 AM
Ironically, the VStar 1100 and VStar 1300 you favor DOES have the design issue of the exhaust blocking the oil filter removal.  There is an oil filter relocation kit available.
That is a pain.
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 17, 2021, 09:18:58 AM
JEEEZ really? God that problem goes back to the friggin Virago in the 90s. For gawd's sake. So stupid.

And this is one of the many reasons why my "cruiser" looks like this!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c7VbgdiA2UdQt4Xs9-rJTLotar2tEIQvIRnrpQk-jrOJD9-OuylRT754Yf5eiC7sJoRJyKcSpDdaVf03Wt9zQPwp5KyprMgoq55NVhWwGBoL8gcKQ3u3iqIUtI4QN8PXEHfBeky9W0mzMSOwZ3d3j2wQ=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0)
Nice KevM!
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 17, 2021, 12:19:39 PM
We have owned three Yamaha VStar 1300 motorcycles, including one "tour" model with the fairing and hard bags - and currently still own one.  We're mostly 2-up on this one.

No issues.

After owning more than 100 motorcycles, this is one that we are rather fond of.


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51119773271_84d3d2a52b_b.jpg)

Nice!
What year is this one?
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: kballowe on April 17, 2021, 05:43:27 PM
Nice!
What year is this one?
inditx

It's a 2014
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 17, 2021, 08:22:54 PM
Nice kballowe!
Did you own either of the 1700 or 1900ís?
If so, how did they compare?
My pillion is growing fonder of the idea of a fairing and some type of queen type seat or at least arm rests of a comfy seat.
Now Iíve gone and done it ay?!
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 17, 2021, 08:34:26 PM
The VStar 1300 is an overhead cam design with shaft drive.  The Roadliner and Raider using the 1900 V-Twin is a pushrod belt drive design.  Very different performance characteristics.  Of the two, I chose the Raider as I preferred the styling and I already had experience with Yamaha's predecessor to the 1900 engine, their 1600 V-Twin used in the Road Star.

That said, both the VStar 1300 and the 1600/1700/1900 V-Twins are all exceptionally reliable and easy to maintain (with the exception of the 1300 oil filter "snafu".).
Hey Dave,
Educate me on the differences between the 1700 and 1900.
I had a 1700 Warrior but like the Roadstars and Roadliners.
Also leaning toward a belt drive which is weird because Iíve had so many shaft drive bikes.
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: kballowe on April 17, 2021, 09:10:48 PM
Nice kballowe!
Did you own either of the 1700 or 1900ís?
If so, how did they compare?
My pillion is growing fonder of the idea of a fairing and some type of queen type seat or at least arm rests of a comfy seat.
Now Iíve gone and done it ay?!
inditx

I had a Roadstar Warrior, and this 2014 Roadliner.  The Roadliner is a long bike and a lot of room between rider and passenger. 

I made mounts and added custom leather bags. 

It was a mile eating monster, especially with that set of Ultimate seats.
 :bike-037:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51122233756_2dec5295de_b.jpg)
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: fatbob on April 17, 2021, 09:26:10 PM
I have put 49K on my 2010 T-Bird 1600.   I love the bike!   Comfy, plenty of performance, mine has been outfitted for touring.   The belt chirp is easily corrected with laser alignment.  A $100.00 tool.   The 12K service on a T-Bird is cumbersome at best.   I do my own maintenance, if I didnít Iíd have traded the bike years ago.   Dealers get $1,200 for a 12k service if no valves are outa spec, $1,500 if a valve shim needs changed.   Iíve only had to change one shim.   

T-Birds are cheap cause they donít sell.   Shame because they are great bikes.   
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: jcctx on April 18, 2021, 12:29:54 PM
VStar 1300 did not have the filter issue the 1100 did. Oil change was easy!!
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 19, 2021, 10:10:25 AM
Well...you could REALLY cruise around town if you had one of these!! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :shocked: :huh: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


(https://i.ibb.co/3yrQJQW/Screen-Shot-2021-04-19-at-8-08-37-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/3yrQJQW)


Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: roadventure on April 19, 2021, 05:20:34 PM
VStar 1300 did not have the filter issue the 1100 did. Oil change was easy!!

Yes, you are correct.  Sorry for my mistake.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: roadventure on April 19, 2021, 05:24:52 PM
The 1300 VStar has a spin-on filter that is easily accessible from underneath.  They have always been like that.
One need remove nothing to get to it.

Yes, sorry for my extending the 1100 oil filter access design to the 1300.  My mistake.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: roadventure on April 19, 2021, 05:29:27 PM
Hey Dave,
Educate me on the differences between the 1700 and 1900.
I had a 1700 Warrior but like the Roadstars and Roadliners.
Also leaning toward a belt drive which is weird because Iíve had so many shaft drive bikes.
inditx

The 1900 V-Twin is also an air cooled, push rod design like their 1600/1700 Road Star (and Warrior) engine.  Very similar in design but the 1900 feel SO MUCH stronger due to the torque output.  I had a 2009 Raider for about five years and would place it as one of my favorite bikes.  The Roadliner makes a much better touring bike (same engine).
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 19, 2021, 08:44:59 PM
Well...you could REALLY cruise around town if you had one of these!! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :shocked: :huh: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


(https://i.ibb.co/3yrQJQW/Screen-Shot-2021-04-19-at-8-08-37-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/3yrQJQW)


Hah, youíre right JJ.

But now you got me reconsidering a Victory......
Thoughts, years, differences....etc.?
Thanks,
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 19, 2021, 08:48:48 PM
The 1900 V-Twin is also an air cooled, push rod design like their 1600/1700 Road Star (and Warrior) engine.  Very similar in design but the 1900 feel SO MUCH stronger due to the torque output.  I had a 2009 Raider for about five years and would place it as one of my favorite bikes.  The Roadliner makes a much better touring bike (same engine).
Thanks roadventure!
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 19, 2021, 09:15:02 PM
For a straight cruiser, even though you said HD is out, you are doing yourself an injustice not to at the least give them a look see. They are plentiful and under market value, at least in my area.
Iíve owned a 1400 Guzzi and they are great cruiser position bikes. However I had an ongoing issue with my 2015 tourer and it had to go.
I had a 2008 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 which proved itself to be a great cruiser/tourer. It was bulletproof!
All of your metrics make a solid cruiser style motorcycle.
You ask for opinions so hereís mine, good luck in your search efforts. The only advice I would give it when you buy try and not be over the recoup value when you purchase 👍
School me on HDís please
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 19, 2021, 09:16:30 PM
So I wasn't going to reply because I don't know either of those bikes well enough and you already said no Harley.

But here's how I would go about considering them both:

* FIRST - plain and simple - find and ride them see which one fits best. The aftermarket is smaller for both and you don't have nearly the options to make it fit better that you do on Harleys. Both sound pretty big and I might lean toward the Vstar just because it's less "excessive" in engine size (but I don't know actual mass of both so that is probably more important).

* NEXT - find out about maintenance. Valve adjustments or hydro? (I'd go hydro unless the adjustments are easy). Belt/shaft/Chain? Some of the Yamaha cruisers had stupid design issues, like exhausts in the way of the oil filter so you'd have to remove part of the exhaust to change the oil. Hopefully that's a thing of the past on these.

* DEALER SUPPORT - what's it like in your area (if you care about it).

* AFTERMARKET SUPPORT - see first step. Can you get any things you might want for it?

* Finally check Brand/Model forums to see if there are any weird things that might exclude one or the other for you. Though I suspect both brands to be pretty reliable you never know if there is some maddening quirk or failure on one that might be a deal breaker.


Honestly Just hearing the names I think I'd lean towards the Triumph because it would be more euro-cool in my mind, but as soon as I say that I start thinking "why so big, why not a Bonnie variant then - like the Triumph America or even the damn Bobber which is a really cool bike"

So that's my best attempt to be helpful. Have fun and be sure to share what you decide to educate us all!

Ok so school me on HDís please. I should at least listen and consider right?
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 19, 2021, 09:28:48 PM
Hah, youíre right JJ.

But now you got me reconsidering a Victory......
Thoughts, years, differences....etc.?
Thanks,
inditx

Mine is a 2014...purchased from new...They discontinued all Victory models in 2017... :bow: :smiley:
So any model between 2014 and 2017 would work...Earlier one were fine also... :thumb:  Not too much difference between the years.
Like Moto Guzzi...they have a strong "CULT" following... :thumb: :smiley:

Be prepared to take a LOT OF CRAP wherever you park it!! :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh: :cool:


(https://i.ibb.co/vVpStfz/Moby-Dick-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vVpStfz)

(https://i.ibb.co/NWbNh9T/moby-DICK.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NWbNh9T)

(https://i.ibb.co/86PbxZv/Moby-Dick-Illustration-xl.jpg) (https://ibb.co/86PbxZv)

(https://i.ibb.co/W3zHK8F/JJ-Moby.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W3zHK8F)


Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 19, 2021, 09:37:02 PM
Looking at some older ones. Any major differences?
Is it true that some came without ABS? I would think youíd want ABS on that monster.
Yeah Iíll bet people poke and snicker and laugh etc.....
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: fatbob on April 19, 2021, 11:52:15 PM
Ok so school me on HDís please. I should at least listen and consider right?
inditx

You should indeed.  Todays Harleys are fabulous bikes.  Go rent a 107" street glide or Electra Glide at an Eagle Rider shop for a day and you will definitely enjoy the ride.  Performance, handling, cornering clearance, braking, etc... have all improved tremendously from the days of old.  (My HD is a 1988 Electra Glide I bought new, only HD I have ever bought).  I still ride that 80" Evo a few thousand miles a year, its been a flawless bike.  And of course nobody can match the dealer network of HD. 

You can ride a HD with stock pipes, A helmet, and without stupid fringes on the grips if that is what puts you off of HD.  I do. 

About the Thunderbird, I would not buy one now that I know all about them.  I will keep mine as long as she runs because I'd have to give  her away, and she is a marvelous bike.  I seem to be attracted to bikes like that, take a look at my signature.  '07 Norge, R1150RT, K1200LT. 




   
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Kev m on April 20, 2021, 06:44:47 AM
Ok so school me on HDís please. I should at least listen and consider right?
inditx

Well, you do you it's all good - but here's a primer:

When it comes to air-cooled twins Harley has had two major engine families unitized EVO (Sportster) and separate engine/transmission/primary Big Twins - EVO, then TC (Twin Cam), and finally M8 (Milwaukee Eight).

Then they divide what they offer by chassis:

I'm going to mention some, just for education, though I don't think you would be interested in them for comfort/2-up touring etc.

Sportster uses only the unitized EVO motor in a couple of variants - Solidmount (through 03) is a little lighter (450-505# wet, heavier in later years, better running gear in last years 00-03, like 4pot brakes). Great around town bike, lousy highway bike because the solidmount vibrations are horrible to some people and in some bikes. Rubbermount - carbureted 04-06, feedback EFI from 07+, is a tad heavier (550-585#), but MUCH more comfortable on highway etc. It's still a small chassis to some, but overall power/capability can be similar to the Cali 1100 in a slightly smaller wheelbase/overall length. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN CHECKING ONE OUT - the better brakes are on 14+ models, though the earlier duals are ok - be aware that there are MANY lowered models (though that can be changed, more easily on some than others). It's not a BAD 2-up bike if you and your pillion aren't too big. Jenn spent some time back there now and again (mostly if say we were dropping something off for a repair or the like). But 2-up, highway, in the wet, I remember running an effortless 70+ as comfortable and stable as can be. ABS and keyless ignition are available in later years though often not opted.


Big Twins are used in the other platforms, let me cover the motors real quick then I'll cover the platforms.

* EVO - classic, but likely kinda old at this point ended around 99 (slightly different based on year). There were two versions of these motors - rubbermounted for FXR, Dyna, or Touring models, solidmount for Softails (see solidmount Sporty for downsides).

* Twin Cam - contains the Persian Flaw - the TC88 from around 99-06 most models have a spring controlled cam chain tensioner that is a wear item and must be checked and replaced OFTEN - like checked every 20k and replaced rarely later than 50k. Failure can toast the motor. Starting on the Dyna in 06 (a one year only TC88) and everything else in 07+ (TC96) they fixed that with hydraulic tensioners which still must be checked, but you can wait till maybe 50k and might not replace till 100k. They also upgraded a bunch of things. Toward the end of the run the TC103 came out and it's the pinnacle of the design but the others are fine (even the TC88 if the hydraulic tensioners are retrofitted OR if you go to an aftermarket gear drive cam). There are two versions of these motors - rubbermounted for Dyna or Touring bikes or solidmount w/ counterbalancer for Softails.

* Milwaukee 8 - started in 2017 and is a 4V/head, motor available in both rubbermount w/ single counterbalancer (Touring) or solidmount w/ dual counterbalancer (Softails) versions. A few of the early ones, specifically on touring models w/ hydraulic clutches, seem to have a problem (mostly when hopped up) transferring oil from I think the engine to the primary case. I suspect the hydraulic clutch because they seemed to have abandoned it this year and gone back to cables, go figure.


Now the platforms.

FXR - probably too old for you. Considered a great handling bike. Only came with rubbermounet EVOs. Think close to Cali 1100 size. These guys ended in early 90s, with another run of special ones in late 90s.

Dyna - similar in size to Cali 1100, but a little heavier, probably low 600#'s wet. Came in EVO and TC versions. Bikes might be FXD (smaller front end/sportier, pegs, though some have forwards and some have mid mounts) or FLD (larger front end/fender/tire - touring setup, probably with floorboards). Dynas ended after 2016.

Softails - come in EVO (solidmount only, avoid), TC (not bad with counter balancer, but not great handlers) or an all new monoshock chassis in 2017+ with the M8 (honestly, finally made a decent Softail I would consider owning with these). Over the years you'll see FXST variants (more sporty) and FLST variants (more touring oriented). MANY of the Softail models through 16 are lowered and have limited ground clearance, this got better (not great, but better) with the 17+ redesign and the monoshock chassis (also they eliminated the Dyna that year and moved some models from the Dyna chassis to this new Softail chassis). Not sure what you want to spend, but the late-model ones are great options often with ABS and all with at least decent brakes, some with truly excellent brakes.

Touring - here are the Road Kings and Electra Glides - they go back (before the EVO in many cases). The basic flavors are Road Kings (removeable windshields), Road Glides (fixed frame mounted fairings) and Street Glides/Electra Glides (fork mounted batwing fairings). Ironically these bikes have the most lean angle in many cases, but they are the biggest and heaviest. They range from a low of 700# in the EVO era to a "low" in the low 800's by the TC103 and M8. And that's just the Road Kings and Electra Glide Standards, they get up into the 900's on the full dressers. Thing to know about these is that the chassis really improved in 2009, and then in 2014 they got things like electronically linked ABS Brembo brakes that are EXCELLENT. The late M8s even can have traction control and I think cornering ABS etc. These are the smoothest, most comfortable. They can still dance, but they are just plain not small. You can get actual bargains in EVOs, and some TCs. Hell my 2016 unused Police bike was only $16.5k with ABS, cruise etc.


Now if any of the platforms sound interesting, let me know and I can do a deeper dive into models and options.

The SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO LOOK FOR in a USED Harley is that it is as close to stock as possible.

Frankly the one worst thing about Harleys is Harley owners and what some of them will do to a bike. The less molested it is, the more likely it runs fine and hasn't been abused. Stock they are quite reliable, change fluids/filters and go.

And that's the BASICS.



 
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 20, 2021, 07:40:05 AM
I have said this before.  Modern Harley's are GREAT road and touring bikes.... :thumb: :boozing: :smiley:
and I have owned five (5)...two FLH-S (Electra Glide Sports) and three FLH-R Road Kings...  If I bought another one, this one speaks to me
2021 Softail Slim! :thumb: :smiley: :boozing: :cool: :cool: :cool:  Just add a windshield and a set of bags! :wink:


(https://i.ibb.co/L0W1hHs/Screen-Shot-2021-04-20-at-5-36-43-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/L0W1hHs)

upload photos online (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 20, 2021, 07:49:32 AM
You should indeed.  Todays Harleys are fabulous bikes.  Go rent a 107" street glide or Electra Glide at an Eagle Rider shop for a day and you will definitely enjoy the ride.  Performance, handling, cornering clearance, braking, etc... have all improved tremendously from the days of old.  (My HD is a 1988 Electra Glide I bought new, only HD I have ever bought).  I still ride that 80" Evo a few thousand miles a year, its been a flawless bike.  And of course nobody can match the dealer network of HD. 

You can ride a HD with stock pipes, A helmet, and without stupid fringes on the grips if that is what puts you off of HD.  I do. 

About the Thunderbird, I would not buy one now that I know all about them.  I will keep mine as long as she runs because I'd have to give  her away, and she is a marvelous bike.  I seem to be attracted to bikes like that, take a look at my signature.  '07 Norge, R1150RT, K1200LT. 

Thanks Bob. Thatís the conclusion I came to on the T-Bird, donít want to wrench or pay someone to, I just want to ride until I canít anymore. I will have to consider a Harley given all the endorsements.
inditx


   
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 20, 2021, 08:54:00 AM
Well, you do you it's all good - but here's a primer:

When it comes to air-cooled twins Harley has had two major engine families unitized EVO (Sportster) and separate engine/transmission/primary Big Twins - EVO, then TC (Twin Cam), and finally M8 (Milwaukee Eight).

Then they divide what they offer by chassis:

I'm going to mention some, just for education, though I don't think you would be interested in them for comfort/2-up touring etc.

Sportster uses only the unitized EVO motor in a couple of variants - Solidmount (through 03) is a little lighter (450-505# wet, heavier in later years, better running gear in last years 00-03, like 4pot brakes). Great around town bike, lousy highway bike because the solidmount vibrations are horrible to some people and in some bikes. Rubbermount - carbureted 04-06, feedback EFI from 07+, is a tad heavier (550-585#), but MUCH more comfortable on highway etc. It's still a small chassis to some, but overall power/capability can be similar to the Cali 1100 in a slightly smaller wheelbase/overall length. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN CHECKING ONE OUT - the better brakes are on 14+ models, though the earlier duals are ok - be aware that there are MANY lowered models (though that can be changed, more easily on some than others). It's not a BAD 2-up bike if you and your pillion aren't too big. Jenn spent some time back there now and again (mostly if say we were dropping something off for a repair or the like). But 2-up, highway, in the wet, I remember running an effortless 70+ as comfortable and stable as can be. ABS and keyless ignition are available in later years though often not opted.


Big Twins are used in the other platforms, let me cover the motors real quick then I'll cover the platforms.

* EVO - classic, but likely kinda old at this point ended around 99 (slightly different based on year). There were two versions of these motors - rubbermounted for FXR, Dyna, or Touring models, solidmount for Softails (see solidmount Sporty for downsides).

* Twin Cam - contains the Persian Flaw - the TC88 from around 99-06 most models have a spring controlled cam chain tensioner that is a wear item and must be checked and replaced OFTEN - like checked every 20k and replaced rarely later than 50k. Failure can toast the motor. Starting on the Dyna in 06 (a one year only TC88) and everything else in 07+ (TC96) they fixed that with hydraulic tensioners which still must be checked, but you can wait till maybe 50k and might not replace till 100k. They also upgraded a bunch of things. Toward the end of the run the TC103 came out and it's the pinnacle of the design but the others are fine (even the TC88 if the hydraulic tensioners are retrofitted OR if you go to an aftermarket gear drive cam). There are two versions of these motors - rubbermounted for Dyna or Touring bikes or solidmount w/ counterbalancer for Softails.

* Milwaukee 8 - started in 2017 and is a 4V/head, motor available in both rubbermount w/ single counterbalancer (Touring) or solidmount w/ dual counterbalancer (Softails) versions. A few of the early ones, specifically on touring models w/ hydraulic clutches, seem to have a problem (mostly when hopped up) transferring oil from I think the engine to the primary case. I suspect the hydraulic clutch because they seemed to have abandoned it this year and gone back to cables, go figure.


Now the platforms.

FXR - probably too old for you. Considered a great handling bike. Only came with rubbermounet EVOs. Think close to Cali 1100 size. These guys ended in early 90s, with another run of special ones in late 90s.

Dyna - similar in size to Cali 1100, but a little heavier, probably low 600#'s wet. Came in EVO and TC versions. Bikes might be FXD (smaller front end/sportier, pegs, though some have forwards and some have mid mounts) or FLD (larger front end/fender/tire - touring setup, probably with floorboards). Dynas ended after 2016.

Softails - come in EVO (solidmount only, avoid), TC (not bad with counter balancer, but not great handlers) or an all new monoshock chassis in 2017+ with the M8 (honestly, finally made a decent Softail I would consider owning with these). Over the years you'll see FXST variants (more sporty) and FLST variants (more touring oriented). MANY of the Softail models through 16 are lowered and have limited ground clearance, this got better (not great, but better) with the 17+ redesign and the monoshock chassis (also they eliminated the Dyna that year and moved some models from the Dyna chassis to this new Softail chassis). Not sure what you want to spend, but the late-model ones are great options often with ABS and all with at least decent brakes, some with truly excellent brakes.

Touring - here are the Road Kings and Electra Glides - they go back (before the EVO in many cases). The basic flavors are Road Kings (removeable windshields), Road Glides (fixed frame mounted fairings) and Street Glides/Electra Glides (fork mounted batwing fairings). Ironically these bikes have the most lean angle in many cases, but they are the biggest and heaviest. They range from a low of 700# in the EVO era to a "low" in the low 800's by the TC103 and M8. And that's just the Road Kings and Electra Glide Standards, they get up into the 900's on the full dressers. Thing to know about these is that the chassis really improved in 2009, and then in 2014 they got things like electronically linked ABS Brembo brakes that are EXCELLENT. The late M8s even can have traction control and I think cornering ABS etc. These are the smoothest, most comfortable. They can still dance, but they are just plain not small. You can get actual bargains in EVOs, and some TCs. Hell my 2016 unused Police bike was only $16.5k with ABS, cruise etc.


Now if any of the platforms sound interesting, let me know and I can do a deeper dive into models and options.

The SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO LOOK FOR in a USED Harley is that it is as close to stock as possible.

Frankly the one worst thing about Harleys is Harley owners and what some of them will do to a bike. The less molested it is, the more likely it runs fine and hasn't been abused. Stock they are quite reliable, change fluids/filters and go.

And that's the BASICS.

WOW KevM you are the man! Thanks so much.
Would be interested in an older 2009ish Glide with frame mounted fairing (I think) and a queen perch for my bride. Any extra info would be welcome or if you need more input from me.
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 20, 2021, 08:55:20 AM
I have said this before.  Modern Harley's are GREAT road and touring bikes.... :thumb: :boozing: :smiley:
and I have owned five (5)...two FLH-S (Electra Glide Sports) and three FLH-R Road Kings...  If I bought another one, this one speaks to me
2021 Softail Slim! :thumb: :smiley: :boozing: :cool: :cool: :cool:  Just add a windshield and a set of bags! :wink:


(https://i.ibb.co/L0W1hHs/Screen-Shot-2021-04-20-at-5-36-43-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/L0W1hHs)

upload photos online (https://imgbb.com/)


Thanks JJ!
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: tazio on April 20, 2021, 09:14:20 AM
Victory Vision Tour, about indestructible. A LOT of bang for the buck.
My pals over 200k miles on his.
He had the rear shock upgraded and belt changed for piece of mind.
I think they are the great "Un-Harley" and look awesome.
Next would be my low mileage HD 2006 Street Glide bought for peanuts.
(https://i.ibb.co/TB2PM9z/20210227-211525.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TB2PM9z)
 
(https://i.ibb.co/5vHSQs0/20210416-162455.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5vHSQs0)
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Kev m on April 20, 2021, 09:22:05 AM
WOW KevM you are the man! Thanks so much.
Would be interested in an older 2009ish Glide with frame mounted fairing (I think) and a queen perch for my bride. Any extra info would be welcome or if you need more input from me.
inditx

 :thumb:

So 2009 or later Road Glide, something with a topcase (and if I might mention, you can put an HB or Givi or other generic topcase on top of the HD tour pack rack for about 1/5th of the price - i.e. a couple hundred bucks instead of just over $1k with OEM parts).

2014 would also get you Brembo brakes and some other stuff.

The linked ABS is really impressive. It's electronic. If you start braking below 35 mph front lever is front calipers, rear pedal is rear caliper. If you start braking above 35 mph they are linked, either the lever or the pedal gives you full braking ability at both ends. You can ONE FINGER haul the heavy bitch down from 80+ like you wouldn't believe.

One word of information the Road Glide (and MOST of the "Glides") come in two flavors - regular and sugar-free, I mean "Special." In Harley's world the word "Special" sometimes means "we lowered the suspension because riders with special needs think it's better to have less suspension travel and cornering clearance so we charge them more for less" - it can also mean cosmetic differences, some are really bad, again charge more for less.

I'm not sure what it means on the CURRENT Road Glide because a quick comparison shows the Special has less ground clearance but better lean angles and the same seat height?!? I guess just be aware there are differences in the same model if it's called Special or not, and sometimes the differences are bad. They certainly are on the RK.

AHHH, I see on the CURRENT model Road Glide the "Special" does get you more - it gets you the 114 motor and full color TFT system instead of just a plain old color radio (maybe that's the difference between NAV or Apple Car Play or something, I don't pay attention to that stuff since I like models without it).

On late model stuff the RDRS (Rider Defensive Reflex System) is the full gammut of ABS/Traction Control etc. Earlier models just had optional ABS (which I have and was describing earlier as AWESOME).


Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: tazio on April 20, 2021, 09:54:57 AM
inditx, what's your price point?
Your first post 2 bikes of interest can be had under $7k ruling out many bikes mentioned here, though my Street Glide and Victory Vision would squeak under..
If you revised up $$ and I missed it, sorry.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 20, 2021, 04:57:41 PM
Thanks KevM!

Tazio, Iíd like to spend around $7,500 but realize that may not be reasonable. In that case I wait and save my pennies.
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 21, 2021, 08:10:33 PM
JJ
Ncdan
tazio
kingof fleece

Does the Vision need the reverse?
2010 it came with ABS right?
Any other year over differences to consider?
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Ncdan on April 21, 2021, 08:58:06 PM
JJ
Ncdan
tazio
kingof fleece

Does the Vision need the reverse?
2010 it came with ABS right?
Any other year over differences to consider?
inditx
You more than likely wonít get ABS with the HD models of 10 years back. We found my son a low mileage 07 soft tail deluxe, he is only 5í7Ē so needed a low seat, for 7k. Itís a blast to ride and he loves it.
My neighbor just sold a low mileage mint cont condition 03 road king for 6k and thatís a mile munching beast. There are some great buys out there with the HD bikes, as well as the other brands also. I really think you would be at least glad that you properly eliminated the brand if nothing else.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 21, 2021, 08:59:10 PM
 :thumb:
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 21, 2021, 09:36:41 PM
JJ
Ncdan
tazio
kingof fleece

Does the Vision need the reverse?
2010 it came with ABS right?
Any other year over differences to consider?
inditx

Here is information on the ABS for the Visions. 

https://www.victoryforums.com/threads/does-your-vision-have-abs.2868/

The reverse was NOT standard and an aftermarket option, I believe...
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 21, 2021, 09:43:57 PM
The Bottom-Line:  IMHO, the Victory Vision is a GREAT open highway, touring bike...
However, be prepared to take a lot of CRAP wherever you park it! :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:

Air-cooled, 6-speed, belt-drive, 106 cu. in. V-twin, 2-stage heated seat, 2-stage heated grips, retractable windshield, 25 inch seat height, 67-in. wheelbase, 871 pounds, 47-48 MPG at 75-80 mph. 
You will not appreciate this bike until you complete a 1000 mile road trip. :thumb: :bow: :cool: :boozing:


(https://i.ibb.co/QMq6sc8/Moby-Dick-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QMq6sc8) (https://i.ibb.co/XXWBsZn/moby-DICK.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XXWBsZn) (https://i.ibb.co/FxwwwG7/Moby-Dick-Illustration-xl.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FxwwwG7) (https://i.ibb.co/jvKc4vR/IMG-2761.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jvKc4vR) (https://i.ibb.co/K5kY4k5/IMG-2759.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K5kY4k5) (https://i.ibb.co/XDpLcmq/IMG-0266.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XDpLcmq) (https://i.ibb.co/vBMF2MB/IMG-0240.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vBMF2MB)
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Rough Edge racing on April 22, 2021, 07:57:19 AM
 It must have been pure hell when rider rode cross country at speeds up to 80 mph on BMW air heads or the occasional Guzzi  or other bikes.   No reverse, no electronic display like Capt Kirk's space ship. must have compared to Shackleton marooned at Antartica..
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Moparnut72 on April 22, 2021, 08:36:30 AM
I don't think too many of us were riding across the country in those days. I rode my R75 across a couple of time, once in 70 and again in 71. Once a Harley rider wanted to ride with me. He said he would try to keep up, he didn't stay with me for very long.
kk
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Rough Edge racing on April 22, 2021, 11:14:43 AM
I don't think too many of us were riding across the country in those days. I rode my R75 across a couple of time, once in 70 and again in 71. Once a Harley rider wanted to ride with me. He said he would try to keep up, he didn't stay with me for very long.
kk
. Yeah very few of us but many others...And no 450 hp Diesel pu trucks to pull an RV trailer. The family piled into their full size sedan with 225 hp and pulled a 30 ft Airstream down two lane roads and mountain passes..Riders on Harleys and Indians and even some on  Brit Bikes...
  Some sarcam on my part but fore sure the overkill bikes and vehicles may, just may, have taken away some of the adventure....
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 23, 2021, 08:25:53 AM
Hey RoughEdgeRacing
I donít disagree but there are times and ages, where the ďluxuriesĒ are welcome on aging bodies.
Glad we have a lot of choices now.
My 69 Bonny would not be one Iíd ride across the country then or now but I did a lot of riding and fixing unfortunately.
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: wymple on April 23, 2021, 10:07:40 AM
I saw the BMW cruiser R1800 or something like that, yesterday. Very low seat height and makes a monstrous statement with it's layout and visually. I loved it.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 23, 2021, 01:30:48 PM
I saw the BMW cruiser R1800 or something like that, yesterday. Very low seat height and makes a monstrous statement with it's layout and visually. I loved it.

Quite a
(https://i.ibb.co/C0JmZVV/Screen-Shot-2021-04-23-at-11-29-12-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/C0JmZVV)

(https://i.ibb.co/6XLydqy/Screen-Shot-2021-04-23-at-11-29-02-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/6XLydqy)
 handsome machine...and I am sure it cruises nicely right down the road!! :thumb: :boozing: :cool: :smiley:

Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Dimitri_Harkov on April 23, 2021, 01:43:38 PM
Oh yes!
They did a great job porting their heritage inter-war design to the 21st century.

Might be a bit over the OP's proposed budget of 7k$, though.

Cheers,
D.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 23, 2021, 03:59:28 PM
Hah, indeed way over my budget for sure!
Wouldnít mine riding one though.
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 23, 2021, 08:58:45 PM
At the end of the day..."Hell Hath No Fury" like Moby Dick - The Great White Whale! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh: :thumb: :bow: :boozing: :cool:

Now discontinued since 2017.. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :shocked: :shocked:


(https://i.ibb.co/0qK41Rj/IMG-2885.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0qK41Rj)

(https://i.ibb.co/4t2DBBz/IMG-2884.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4t2DBBz)

(https://i.ibb.co/S6FVSLd/IMG-2883.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S6FVSLd)
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Scud on April 23, 2021, 09:36:18 PM
The BMW R1200C is the best-handling cruiser I have ridden. I have not ridden any more modern ones, as cruisers are not my thing. I never cared for the looks of the R1200C, but some people really like them, and there were some variants with bigger fairings that hide that (IMO) design tragedy of a front suspension. However, that suspension is part of what makes it such a good handler.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: wymple on April 24, 2021, 12:01:39 AM
Quite a
(https://i.ibb.co/C0JmZVV/Screen-Shot-2021-04-23-at-11-29-12-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/C0JmZVV)

(https://i.ibb.co/6XLydqy/Screen-Shot-2021-04-23-at-11-29-02-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/6XLydqy)
 handsome machine...and I am sure it cruises nicely right down the road!! :thumb: :boozing: :cool: :smiley:

Pictures cannot convey how massive those cylinders are when you are seeing in in the real.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Kev m on April 24, 2021, 04:12:55 AM
The BMW R1200C is the best-handling cruiser I have ridden. I have not ridden any more modern ones, as cruisers are not my thing. I never cared for the looks of the R1200C, but some people really like them, and there were some variants with bigger fairings that hide that (IMO) design tragedy of a front suspension. However, that suspension is part of what makes it such a good handler.

I was a fan of the 1200C and enjoyed putting miles on some press versions back in the day. But it was average in the handling department. Certainly no better than a Tonti Cali or plenty of other bikes I've ridden in the segment.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 24, 2021, 08:38:55 AM
Now here is an interesting CRUISER - 2014 Honda CTX 1300cc...  It is sort of "Guzzi-like"...with its V4, liquid-cooled, motor, shaft-drive.  I don't believe they made these very long.  Nice examples can be had for $7K-$8K... :thumb: :cool: :cool:  I'll bet it goes down the highway just fine!! :wink: :smiley:


(https://i.ibb.co/JKXVV5J/Screen-Shot-2021-04-24-at-6-35-54-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/JKXVV5J)
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 24, 2021, 08:55:35 AM
JJ
I have been looking at these too.
Made for just 2 years.
Look nice and reportedely ride out fine.
Only complaint is the V4 is detuned and hitting the ol shins on those jugs.
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 24, 2021, 09:03:46 AM
QUOTE:  Only complaint is the V4 is detuned and hitting the ol shins on those jugs.
inditx
[/quote]

I am sure that V4 has more than enough power....and hitting the ol' shins on those jugs depends on one's inseam....
I sat on one...no issues...but then again, I only had a 30" inseam!! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on April 24, 2021, 10:40:40 AM
Here is another option for a cool, high-speed, sport touring cruiser!! :thumb: :boozing: :cool: :wink: :smiley:


(https://i.ibb.co/VtnBNcn/Screen-Shot-2021-04-24-at-8-39-06-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/VtnBNcn)
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on April 24, 2021, 11:01:25 AM
QUOTE:  Only complaint is the V4 is detuned and hitting the ol shins on those jugs.
inditx


I am sure that V4 has more than enough power....and hitting the ol' shins on those jugs depends on one's inseam....
I sat on one...no issues...but then again, I only had a 30" inseam!! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:

Iím at 31Ē so maybe not so bad.
Looking for one to try out.
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on May 03, 2021, 04:54:38 PM
So......Itís neither of the bikes I mentioned or were recommended to me.  :wink:

The winner will be a,..................... Goldwing!   :bike-037: I know, thatís not a cruiser but honestly I did not like the CTX1300 and the Vision I rode just was not my jam.

Iíll post pics when we complete the transaction.  :bike-037:

Thanks all!
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: JJ on May 03, 2021, 07:46:40 PM
As a big touring bike...IMHO, one can never go wrong with a Gold Wing.   :thumb: :boozing: :cool:

Comfortable and reliable, I am always impressed as they "whisk" by me on the freeway at 80-85mph...."Whisper Quiet!"

CONGRATS and let's see some photos! 

A riding buddy of mine has a red Honda F6B - great bike!  Here is a photo from May 2019 at the historic MIZPAH Hotel in Tonopah, NV. 


(https://i.ibb.co/3sFbD0K/IMG-8676.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3sFbD0K)
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on May 03, 2021, 08:35:45 PM
Tanks JJ, will do on pics!
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Ncdan on May 04, 2021, 10:09:30 AM
Gold Wing! That was quite a turnaround from a cruiser. Why the drastic change of plans?
By the way it was a good choice for a bike, just not a cruiser, per say.
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on May 04, 2021, 04:25:17 PM
Hey Ncdan,
Rode the cruisers and just not our jam, at least not anymore. Feet forward and slouching is just not comfortable for me.
My wife sure likes the passenger comforts of the GW and that helped swing it to more of a tourer.
For me, itís also that silky 6 and the fact that it has reverse. (sshhh gettingí old)
Thanks,
inditx
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Ncdan on May 04, 2021, 05:42:57 PM
Hey Ncdan,
Rode the cruisers and just not our jam, at least not anymore. Feet forward and slouching is just not comfortable for me.
My wife sure likes the passenger comforts of the GW and that helped swing it to more of a tourer.
For me, itís also that silky 6 and the fact that it has reverse. (sshhh gettingí old)
Thanks,
inditx
I think you made a good choice for you and wife also.👍
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: inditx on May 04, 2021, 07:50:03 PM
 :thumb:
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Jorg66 on May 11, 2021, 01:24:39 PM
Good on You ! Well, its a Honda,.... check oil ,push the button and go !
Title: Re: NGC Which Cruiser?
Post by: Motormike on May 11, 2021, 09:01:34 PM
Prices are good on used one, parts and service are EVERYWHERE, and frankly the modern ones just keep going and going...
The Haters don't realize just how good they are.  (As long as your not in a big hurry)