Author Topic: What is the future for MG?  (Read 5558 times)

Online bad Chad

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2021, 10:39:37 AM »
Kev, I think the guys at FBF were adding a few HP to make their customers feel good.  Pete Roper said that about the most you could get out of the 2v, without putting major time and money in, was 75hp.  If you were getting 75 out of a bone stock B1100, you had a very beefy motor indeed.
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Online Kev m

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2021, 10:51:52 AM »
Kev, I think the guys at FBF were adding a few HP to make their customers feel good.  Pete Roper said that about the most you could get out of the 2v, without putting major time and money in, was 75hp.  If you were getting 75 out of a bone stock B1100, you had a very beefy motor indeed.

I was going to note that at least one other magazine showed a B11 dyno with similar numbers (SportRider), but that MCN (consumer news) had slightly lower numbers. I did eventually ditch the crossover and had GT reflash the ECU and it was definitely even more punchy at that point.

Bottom line it felt WAY more punchy than a V85.
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Online bad Chad

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2021, 11:49:04 AM »
Yes, I guess we are really splitting hairs here.   
Rider posted these numbers, 

"Strapped onto the Borla Performance Dynojet dynamometer, the Breva spun up 71.7 rear-wheel horsepower at 7,400 rpm and 56.3 lb-ft of torque peaked at 5,500 revs."
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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2021, 02:46:42 PM »
 The 1400 was just a bit past the limit of stone axe reliability , the crankshaft was stressed at 1200 CC's in the later NTX Stelvios . Same with the SB , yeah , you might get a few cubes W/O problems , but unless MG redesigns the crank and cases for more bearing , a much bigger SB is gonna go boom.

 Give me an 850 in a sport touring set up , something with decent bags and fairing .

 Dusty

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2021, 02:46:42 PM »

Offline roadventure

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2021, 04:37:54 PM »
I was talking to one of my forum Pals last night and after our conversation ended a question became apparent to me, what is the future of the moto Guzzi brand of motorcycle.
They no longer produce the newest line, 1400s, which was their future for touring  and cruiser bikes at the time of introduction. They no longer offer the ole work horse 1100 series, which was used in most all of the versions of riding needs and desires of Guzzi riders, so what’s left?
Personally for the kind of bikes I prefer being cruiser/ tourers, the future looks kind of bleak:(.
What say my fellow Guzzi enthusiast?

They will continue as they always have being just one step away from greatness.  Never reaching greatness, but always close. 

They will continue to do everything they can to drive existing customers away and continually make it difficult for new customers to take the leap to buy their bikes by not supporting their struggling dealer base.

They seem to have survived 100 years using this plan, so it must be valid!
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Offline roadventure

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2021, 04:40:10 PM »

                                                                         Moto Guzzi
                                                                     Established 1921
                                                          Going out of business since 1922


 Dusty

and....


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"Making Mechanics out of Enthusiasts since 1921"
             
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 04:40:56 PM by roadventure »
dave
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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2021, 04:41:47 PM »
But does totally dropping the bigger blocks make sense?

No...
dave
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Offline roadventure

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2021, 04:43:04 PM »
I'm betting in the next few years MG will pump billions of dollars into creating a reliable worldwide dealer network plus working creating new motorcycles that are old but new and with lots of new tech but no tech. Piaggio will support warranty claims, back dealers and become #1 worldwide in customer service. MG will in the coming years will expand at a rate faster than the universe did during the big bang outpacing all other manufacturers combined.

Or they will go tits up.

LOL!!
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Offline roadventure

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2021, 04:45:23 PM »
I am not a big block guy.  My bikes of choice have been in the 500 - 1000 cc range.  I am not really qualified to say.  I have always been "intrigued" by people who ride 700 lb and up motorcycles.  I feel you can tour very well on a 500 lb./80 hp motorcycle.  I don't know if the future of motorcycles in general is for bikes over 1000 cc.  Like I said, not really qualified to comment.  Do you feel there is enough of a demand for this type/size of bike?

Well, there is this American motorcycle company that has successfully made that their business plan for 118 years.
dave
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Offline roadventure

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2021, 04:50:07 PM »
they bring up the gerber file and stamp one out.

"gerber".....you're funny.  :grin:

And, yes remember how well JITM has worked out?  Ask those companies who had parts held up by the EVER GIVEN fiasco.   :wink:
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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2021, 04:51:59 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks a larger EURO 5 motor will come down the pike?  Or thinks the 1400 was canned due to regulations and a clean sheet design is coming?
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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2021, 04:57:17 PM »
Ncdan: I owned a Honda ST 1100 for 22 + years.  It was my two up touring machine and put 50 K miles on it.  Fully loaded and two up could cruise all day long at 85 - 90 mph or more,  easily.  Traveled on that bike from Ohio to Banff, PEI, and Key West, and points in between.  I never could see a need for anything more.

So, you two agree.  Heavy touring bikes work better!  (note weight and displacement of the ST1100...)

"Though big and heavy—61.2 inches between the axles, and depending on the model anywhere from 679 to 737 pounds wet—the ST1100 worked well enough on smooth back roads to keep riders entertained. The 1,085cc “flying” four had the same kind of low-end grunt as its cousins, cranking out a claimed 79 lb-ft of torque and about 100 horsepower. A quartet of carbs nestled between the cylinder banks provided glitch-free fueling, and the 7.4-gallon gas tank kept them fed for up to 300 miles between stops."

A Look Back: 1991-2002 Honda ST1100
By
Jerry Smith - November 16, 2017
RIDER magazine
dave
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oldbike54

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2021, 05:00:19 PM »
 Rumor has it the engineers are prototyping an X layout using a slightly modified crankcase and 4 of the 850 cylinders working out to 1700 CC's .

 Dusty

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2021, 05:07:07 PM »
The dealership network, or the lack of quality dealerships is probably the biggest problem. The false perception of the lousy quality of Italian products is another which is not an easy fix.
kk

Agree 100%
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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #74 on: April 19, 2021, 05:41:45 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks a larger EURO 5 motor will come down the pike?  Or thinks the 1400 was canned due to regulations and a clean sheet design is coming?

Am I the only one who thinks the 1400 is not dead?  True it's not being used in any 21s, but that doesn't mean it won't show up as a reworked 2022 or 2023.  I mean look at the american car companies, they have been killing and then rebirthing various v8 motors for decades!
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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2021, 06:41:07 PM »
The 1400 was just a bit past the limit of stone axe reliability , the crankshaft was stressed at 1200 CC's in the later NTX Stelvios . Same with the SB , yeah , you might get a few cubes W/O problems , but unless MG redesigns the crank and cases for more bearing , a much bigger SB is gonna go boom.

 Give me an 850 in a sport touring set up , something with decent bags and fairing .

 Dusty
I could go there also Dusty, maybe also offer a more cruiser style also.

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #76 on: April 19, 2021, 09:46:34 PM »
Well, there is this American motorcycle company that has successfully made that their business plan for 118 years.

Well, that's true.  But here are a few thoughts.

HD's motorcycle sales peaked 15 years ago, and have dropped 40% since. HD's laid off 700 employees last year.  HD's is currently in the process of reducing their product line by 30% and has experienced 17 straight quarters of sales decline. HD has known for quite some time that it needs to reach a younger customer.  The problem is that demographic  doesn't necessarily want the same things in a motorcycle that HD's older base values.

HD's will continue to make big bore bikes. Just not as many, because it is a changing market place.   HD's will survive and I applaud them for diversifying with the new PanAm and moving into the future with an electric bike.   As another poster pointed out, if you are going to buy a big cruiser/bagger/touring type bike,  I would think you would go with HD or even Indian that has a substantial dealer network nationwide that can support your ride while on a long haul.  Personally I don't think there is a large enough demand for MG's buyers to pick the 1400 over the previous options.  Past history of how they languished on the sales floor and didn't sell well I think would support that.

Regarding the ST 1100.  Point I was trying to make with Ncdan was that 1100 cc vs 1400 cc  (300 cc less) was more than adequate for me to accomplish the job of two up touring.  Your stats are appreciated: it was heavy, heavier than I preferred even at 1100 cc's.   As soon as my two up days were over, I transitioned to a smaller displacement bike that could easily do highway speeds of 80 mph in comfort and shed about 175 pounds. 

There will always be a need for large displacement bikes for touring.  I just don't think  there will continue to be as large of a demand as in the past because of the changing demographics and technologies.

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #77 on: April 19, 2021, 10:12:52 PM »
Given the issues that several different members had with 1400’s, I’m on the side of “no great loss”.

Also. Please understand I am not trying to be rude or condescending or anything. But thinking “bigger is better” is dated thinking. How many here own new cars or trucks with smaller forced induction engines that put out more power than old V-8s? As technology drives efficiency gains, having a clean burning small block that gives comparable performance of a big block is a no brainer, from a manufacturing standpoint. Tooling is hella expensive. And if the demographic that tooling is being ordered for is dying off, it doesn’t make sense to keep investing in it. I guess I’m thinking that time marches onward, whether we want it to or not.

Personally I think their dealership/customer service experience needs to be improved upon first. Otherwise it won’t matter what they do or don’t offer.

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #78 on: April 19, 2021, 10:24:33 PM »
I'll toss in a lot is dependent on where you ride.  Parts of this country as SO wide open and straight........... .................
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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #79 on: April 19, 2021, 10:28:55 PM »
They will continue as they always have being just one step away from greatness.  Never reaching greatness, but always close. 

They will continue to do everything they can to drive existing customers away and continually make it difficult for new customers to take the leap to buy their bikes by not supporting their struggling dealer base.

They seem to have survived 100 years using this plan, so it must be valid!
You know RV, that’s just about the most reasonable and acceptable explanation of the brand as I e ever heard.

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #80 on: April 19, 2021, 10:34:47 PM »
So, you two agree.  Heavy touring bikes work better!  (note weight and displacement of the ST1100...)

"Though big and heavy—61.2 inches between the axles, and depending on the model anywhere from 679 to 737 pounds wet—the ST1100 worked well enough on smooth back roads to keep riders entertained. The 1,085cc “flying” four had the same kind of low-end grunt as its cousins, cranking out a claimed 79 lb-ft of torque and about 100 horsepower. A quartet of carbs nestled between the cylinder banks provided glitch-free fueling, and the 7.4-gallon gas tank kept them fed for up to 300 miles between stops."

A Look Back: 1991-2002 Honda ST1100
By
Jerry Smith - November 16, 2017
RIDER magazine

Well Jerry, that depends on if one considers a ST1100 a heavy touring bike? After riding an 03 1450 electric glide all over the Easter US, I don’t consider the 1100 a heavy touring bike. However I consider it a totally acceptable touring bike. If this makes sense??

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #81 on: April 19, 2021, 10:38:33 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks the 1400 is not dead?  True it's not being used in any 21s, but that doesn't mean it won't show up as a reworked 2022 or 2023.  I mean look at the american car companies, they have been killing and then rebirthing various v8 motors for decades!
Good point BC!

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #82 on: April 19, 2021, 10:40:30 PM »
Rumor has it the engineers are prototyping an X layout using a slightly modified crankcase and 4 of the 850 cylinders working out to 1700 CC's .

 Dusty
Too big for my needs??
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 10:56:42 PM by Ncdan »

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2021, 10:44:05 PM »
Well, that's true.  But here are a few thoughts.

HD's motorcycle sales peaked 15 years ago, and have dropped 40% since. HD's laid off 700 employees last year.  HD's is currently in the process of reducing their product line by 30% and has experienced 17 straight quarters of sales decline. HD has known for quite some time that it needs to reach a younger customer.  The problem is that demographic  doesn't necessarily want the same things in a motorcycle that HD's older base values.

HD's will continue to make big bore bikes. Just not as many, because it is a changing market place.   HD's will survive and I applaud them for diversifying with the new PanAm and moving into the future with an electric bike.   As another poster pointed out, if you are going to buy a big cruiser/bagger/touring type bike,  I would think you would go with HD or even Indian that has a substantial dealer network nationwide that can support your ride while on a long haul.  Personally I don't think there is a large enough demand for MG's buyers to pick the 1400 over the previous options.  Past history of how they languished on the sales floor and didn't sell well I think would support that.

Regarding the ST 1100.  Point I was trying to make with Ncdan was that 1100 cc vs 1400 cc  (300 cc less) was more than adequate for me to accomplish the job of two up touring.  Your stats are appreciated: it was heavy, heavier than I preferred even at 1100 cc's.   As soon as my two up days were over, I transitioned to a smaller displacement bike that could easily do highway speeds of 80 mph in comfort and shed about 175 pounds. 

There will always be a need for large displacement bikes for touring.  I just don't think  there will continue to be as large of a demand as in the past because of the changing demographics and technologies.
I got your point Tommy on the replacement issue and I’m in total agreement 👍👍👍

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #84 on: April 19, 2021, 10:50:01 PM »
Too big??

 my sources say it weighs 450 lbs full of fuel .

 Dusty

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #85 on: April 19, 2021, 10:52:44 PM »
Given the issues that several different members had with 1400’s, I’m on the side of “no great loss”.

Also. Please understand I am not trying to be rude or condescending or anything. But thinking “bigger is better” is dated thinking. How many here own new cars or trucks with smaller forced induction engines that put out more power than old V-8s? As technology drives efficiency gains, having a clean burning small block that gives comparable performance of a big block is a no brainer, from a manufacturing standpoint. Tooling is hella expensive. And if the demographic that tooling is being ordered for is dying off, it doesn’t make sense to keep investing in it. I guess I’m thinking that time marches onward, whether we want it to or not.

Personally I think their dealership/customer service experience needs to be improved upon first. Otherwise it won’t matter what they do or don’t offer.
Agreeded GG on the opinion that bigger is not always better 👍

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2021, 10:58:19 PM »
my sources say it weighs 450 lbs full of fuel .

 Dusty
That would be a Monster of a motorcycle!

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #87 on: April 19, 2021, 11:17:07 PM »
I prefer the look of the HD:


I visited the local H-D dealer to check out the PanAm; I knew more about it than the salesman, and the manager had no idea when they would get one.
They had one of their electrics on the floor so I asked if I could sit on it. I'm long in the waist, about like your typical 6'3" guy.  On the bike I was stretched like this young lady - there was no way I would take that bike for a test ride.

Dan
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Offline Murray

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #88 on: April 20, 2021, 05:35:44 AM »
"gerber".....you're funny.  :grin:

And, yes remember how well JITM has worked out?  Ask those companies who had parts held up by the EVER GIVEN fiasco.   :wink:

The idea was to have a facility or two on each continent to avoid the shipping issues, something about living in one of the most isolated capital cities in the world and have some obscure motorcycle. JIT doesn't work it never has despite what the various local importers claim. Fortunately I have a very good independent shop locally who also thinks JIT is crap and keeps parts in stock, I can get Guzzi parts faster and easier than Yamaha or Honda.

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Re: What is the future for MG?
« Reply #89 on: April 20, 2021, 06:25:38 AM »
Well, the aliens from the UFO thread are planning to take over Guzzi. Since they have been to the future, they will introduce such futuristic ideas as new lighter alloys to reduce weight along with helium filled frame sections.

The new bikes will have 250 horsepower and weigh under 200 pounds. The future is near.

John Henry 
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and the flying motor singing.
Samuel C. Lancaster 1921

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