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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Travlr on November 28, 2021, 07:40:30 AM

Title: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Travlr on November 28, 2021, 07:40:30 AM
I'm beginning to think a big bike with a low seat (cruiser for instance) is preferable to a lite bike with a tall seat (dual sport)  But what say you?

Mike
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: john fish on November 28, 2021, 08:08:09 AM
For me, it's light weight.  I'm 6'2" with bad hips but I'd still rather mount the KLR by standing on the peg than ride a heavy bike with a low seat.  Some of this may be because I always seem to find myself on very bad and/or gravel roads lately.

I think my next bike will be 400 lbs or lighter.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: SIR REAL ED on November 28, 2021, 08:49:05 AM
Excellent question!  I should have asked it myself.

Obviously the answer is personal preference based on all our own specific desires. 

WHOA!!!  I guess if we all remembered that fact more mindfully and consistently, internet arguments would cease to exist.....  Nah, that's no fun!   :evil:

For me, at 62 years old, with a 30" inseam, and a double digit IQ (fun fact), the answer is I want both light weight and low seat height with the preference going towards light weight.  My bike shed is in the back yard on the other side of a shallow ditch, so even ground clearance becomes an issue.

90%+ of my riding is back roads so light weight is key, and I don't ride hard enough to need maximum high quality suspension of travel nor triple digit HP.

Nor are the majority of my rides multiple days or high mileage days, which tends to make the bikes heavier in terms of more features and more comfort.

I guess there are more factors to consider here than just the age of the rider.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: JJ on November 28, 2021, 09:01:50 AM
I'm beginning to think a big bike with a low seat (cruiser for instance) is preferable to a lite bike with a tall seat (dual sport)  But what say you?

Mike
 

IMHO - "LOW SEAT" makes all the difference in the world...

For example.... "MOBY DICK" ....at 871 pounds...it is LONG (66" wheelbase).... and LOW....with a seat height of 25 inches, (with the 1-inch factory lowering kit) :thumb: :boozing: :cool:

It loses 200 pounds the minute you let the clutch out in first gear.... :wink: :thumb:


(https://i.ibb.co/yhmcvk5/IMG-3140.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yhmcvk5)

my display resolution (https://whatsmyscreenresolution.com/)


Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: inditx on November 28, 2021, 09:04:22 AM
Excellent question!  I should have asked it myself.

Obviously the answer is personal preference based on all our own specific desires. 

WHOA!!!  I guess if we all remembered that fact more mindfully and consistently, internet arguments would cease to exist.....  Nah, that's no fun!   :evil:

For me, at 62 years old, with a 30" inseam, and a double digit IQ (fun fact), the answer is I want both light weight and low seat height with the preference going towards light weight.  My bike shed is in the back yard on the other side of a shallow ditch, so even ground clearance becomes an issue.

90%+ of my riding is back roads so light weight is key, and I don't ride hard enough to need maximum high quality suspension of travel nor triple digit HP.

Nor are the majority of my rides multiple days or high mileage days, which tends to make the bikes heavier in terms of more features and more comfort.

I guess there are more factors to consider here than just the age of the rider.

+1  :thumb:
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: drdwb on November 28, 2021, 09:13:30 AM
Tis a great question,one I’ve been considering for the last year. There was a time not that long ago I could put my Norge, EV and wife’s Stone Touring up on their center stands on the bike stand by myself, as well as easily move them around the garage. Since I’ve aged some and my wife acquired a Baby Breva I’m feeling and seeing the difference. I no do that, suppose I could if I had to, but this has lead to a few precarious situations including one easy lay over with no damage. The Baby Breva is so much easier to move around and is still quite comfortable and capable  for 3-400 miles rides. I’m not quite ready to make the adjustment but certainly have been considering it, I’m 67 now and probably will have to downsize by 70, time will tell. One of the reasons I’m putting the Vetter side car on the EV.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Scott of the Sahara on November 28, 2021, 09:28:11 AM
Seat Height is crucial. Especially riding 2 up (which my wife refuses to do now)
The Norge was the lowest seat height sport tourer, when I was looking. I still like it.
My friend's Road King is so well balanced that it only takes one toe to keep it upright (think Fred Flintstone when he is bowling).
If you never have to stop, get the tall 42" seat Dual Sport.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Ronkom on November 28, 2021, 09:43:25 AM
It depends on where you are parking the bike & how much "man-handling" you have to do. I have tight space in my garage & a slight up slope to the door. I can ride one in, but for the other two I have to push. To my 75 year-old creaking bones & not so strong muscles light weight & good balance are very important.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: jackthebiker on November 28, 2021, 09:52:25 AM
My 2021 Heritage Softail Classic is 730 lbs or so with a 26" or so seat height. I traded my 2019 Road King in on it because it weighted about 100 lbs more than the Heritage, and the Heritage still had a windshield and bags. I find the Heritage easier to ride slow and around town. Now my 2018 Honda NC750X weighs 200 lbs less than the Heritage, but the seat is 4 inches or more higher and is getting very difficult for my soon to be 70 year old body to lift a leg up that high. And yes I know about the foot peg mount but do not feel comfortable attempting. So which do I perfer? I will ride the NC places I would never ride the Heritage, but the NC will be sold this spring and replaced with a Moto Guzzi V7 or a Triumph T100.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: jackthebiker on November 28, 2021, 10:12:33 AM
 

IMHO - "LOW SEAT" makes all the difference in the world...

For example.... "MOBY DICK" ....at 871 pounds...it is LONG (66" wheelbase).... and LOW....with a seat height of 25 inches, (with the 1-inch factory lowering kit) :thumb: :boozing: :cool:

It loses 200 pounds the minute you let the clutch out in first gear.... :wink: :thumb:


(https://i.ibb.co/yhmcvk5/IMG-3140.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yhmcvk5)

my display resolution (https://whatsmyscreenresolution.com/)


I am a x Victory rider. 2011 Cross Country, 20212 Cross Roads LE, and a 2013 Cross Country Tour. I tried out a Vision and it was HUGH! My Cross Country Tour felt more compact and easier to ride. The salesman had to man handle the Vision to get it outside for me to ride. So you have my respect.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: SIR REAL ED on November 28, 2021, 10:15:30 AM
 

IMHO - "LOW SEAT" makes all the difference in the world...

For example.... "MOBY DICK" ....at 871 pounds...it is LONG (66" wheelbase).... and LOW....with a seat height of 25 inches, (with the 1-inch factory lowering kit) :thumb: :boozing: :cool:

It loses 200 pounds the minute you let the clutch out in first gear.... :wink: :thumb:


(https://i.ibb.co/yhmcvk5/IMG-3140.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yhmcvk5)

my display resolution (https://whatsmyscreenresolution.com/)


Very true.  The effect of seat height on the perceived weight of a bike is hard to overestimate.

I have often been shocked to see the Harley riding guy get a 500+_pound Harley for his wife or his girlfriends first bike.  Obviously the name brand is important.  But I have also been surprised to see how often the wife or girlfriend sticks with it and seems to handle the heavy machine successfully.

I would assume in those situations when it comes time to "manhandle" the bike for garage parking or maintenance, the wife/girlfriend steps aside.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: coast range rider on November 28, 2021, 10:22:26 AM
This older rider prefers high seat and lower center of gravity. Always hard to find that spec in reviews unfortunately.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: DougG on November 28, 2021, 10:38:33 AM
Hi Coast,                                                                                                               11-28-21

For me, the answer is simple...both (of course all measurements are relative to your needs and comfort level).  Low seat height generally gives lower center of gravity easier control especially when stopped, lighter bike generally gives better performance (ceteris paribus) ...braking, acceleration, mileage, etc.  I had a 560 lb, 28" seat height 2007 Harley Sportster 1200.  It checked 90% of the boxes for me.

Good luck with your search.

Be well, stay well,
DougG

Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: blu guzz on November 28, 2021, 10:38:53 AM
I am age 63 and in moderately good physical condition, nothing replaced yet.  I still like to tour and ride up to about 400 miles in a day.  I traded from a 1400 Cali to the current V85 when first available.  I love the 200 lbs. less as it doesn't make the horsepower gap seem so obvious and love how it eats backroads with its 6+ inch suspension travel and the 6 inch shorter wheelbase, but my 29 inch inseam makes it a literal stretch to tiptoe it around when in saddle.  However, pushing it around from the floor is so much easier. Nothing new gets me excited so I will ride this one until the height becomes a real issue and then drop back and punt.  So, I am glad MG makes the V7 and V9 for my future needs.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: twowheeladdict on November 28, 2021, 10:40:21 AM
Suspension is important to me, so a light bike with ample suspension is my preference.  Not willing to pay for exotics for lightness though. 
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: guzzimatic on November 28, 2021, 10:43:38 AM
In the immortal words of Peter Egan,  A heavy bike is a pig forever… truer words never spoken…
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Moparnut72 on November 28, 2021, 11:00:28 AM
I have had to address this very situation. My Audace was getting too awkward for me. On one of my multi day trips this past summer I dropped it once and almost lost it a second time. I also didn't go a couple of places I wanted to go due to whether I could get in and be able to get back out. The Audace has other issues besides weight,  31* steering head angle and almost 67" wheelbase.

So I started shopping new bikes. First I was looking at lower seat height which took me to Indian and Harley. Gotta have a traditional looking machine. Even though the Chief and the Sportglide had low seats they still felt heavy which I felt wouldn't help much. I went to the Euro bikes dealership where the salesman pointed me towards a Bonneville. Even though they have a fairly tall seat it felt a lot more manageable. After a short test ride and further research I did the deal. I also went this way because they were willing to give me a decent trade in value for the Audace. If I tried to sell it privately it would probably sit forever as it sat on the dealers floor for 3 years when it was new.

I have had the Trumpet for just over a week with only 300 miles so far but it is fulfilling my needs. Easy to move around, ride at slow speeds and get on and off. I have read that some say they are heavy handling but at highway speeds works for me. That is primarily what I wanted, I have a V7 for curvy mtn roads and around town not that the Triumph couldn't do that with ease. The only negatives that I see so far are the chain drive and valve adjustments. Fortunately valve adjustments are 10,000 miles apart.

This is what I have done, others may have different needs, wants or ?
kk
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: 80CX100 on November 28, 2021, 11:30:12 AM
Different challenges for different bikes in different aspects.

     My DR650 is probably my lightest bike, but I find getting on and off of it with it's higher seat height disconcerting, I've caught my foot on the seat a few times as I've swung my leg over it; but that height for leverage and lighter weight make it the easiest one to move around the garage.

     My CalVin, is probably my heaviest bike & with the lowest seat; it's very confidence inspiring climbing aboard and getting off of it; but it is a challenging heavy pig getting it onto or off of the center stand and especially to move around the garage.

      fwiw ymmv
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: xackley on November 28, 2021, 11:43:41 AM
I'm starting to dislike launching a sharp right hand turn from a dead stop on my california 1100. At 69 my weight remains the same, but my belly fat continues to grow? Definitely being able to flat foot and light weight helps to extend your riding years. This year I spent half of my riding time on my 1958 BMW R69 and had zero problems. It's the zero to 5 mph were weight matters on a heavier bike.

I would highly recommend a Jeep Wrangler TJ for an open air experience when your riding days are over. With the doors off and top down it is the closest you can come on 4 wheels to the feel of a motorcycle.

The JK Wrangler and newer are refined and a lot less tractor like. But the doors weigh about 70 pounds and are no fun to dismount and mount.

Personally I will be getting a V7 by next summer. Mostly a Want, but secondly practical for my abilities.

Don
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: jackthebiker on November 28, 2021, 11:48:41 AM
I'm starting to dislike launching a sharp right hand turn from a dead stop on my california 1100. At 69 my weight remains the same, but my belly fat continues to grow? Definitely being able to flat foot and light weight helps to extend your riding years. This year I spent half of my riding time on my 1958 BMW R69 and had zero problems. It's the zero to 5 mph were weight matters on a heavier bike.

I would highly recommend a Jeep Wrangler TJ for an open air experience when your riding days are over. With the doors off and top down it is the closest you can come on 4 wheels to the feel of a motorcycle.

The JK Wrangler and newer are refined and a lot less tractor like. But the doors weigh about 70 pounds and are no fun to dismount and mount.

Personally I will be getting a V7 by next summer. Mostly a Want, but secondly practical for my abilities.



Don


Muscle weighs more than fat, I have the same problem.  I also enjoy "TOPS DOWN"
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: bigbikerrick on November 28, 2021, 11:56:24 AM
Low seat 100%! If weight were as much of an issue, many of us old farts with 30" inseams would not be riding Harley baggers. I can ride my son's Road Glide pretty easy, even though its a ungainly pig at 900 lbs. If it didnt have such a low seat, it would be game over for me on that bike.
Rick.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: mtiberio on November 28, 2021, 12:00:22 PM
low seat. low seat usually means low CG. Even a light bike with a high CG can easily tip.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Ncdan on November 28, 2021, 01:55:35 PM
I think it depends on which issue a person has a problem with, weight or balance?
A heavy well balanced motorcycle with a low enough saddle should be acceptable for a, smaller, older rider. There are plenty of small ladies that has no issues handling a full dresser that has been lowered. 
However a bike weighing in at 450-500lbs could be a challenge for a rider who must tippy-toe the bike and would be challenged with, mounting as well as pushing it backwards while mounted. When one cannot flat foot a bike it’s extremely hard to push even a 450 pounder backwards snd especially if you failed to park on a slight downhill grade or even in the flats with a gravel base.
Therefore I’d say seat height is the gravest challenge.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Bill N on November 28, 2021, 04:28:48 PM
After age 70 I've lowered two bikes. First my FJR which is heavy and for me, tall. Only lowered it using dog bones on the rear. The front was unchanged. It made it like a new bike for me. My confidence went up tremendously and I no longer feared difficult parking situations. The other was my 1200 Bandit. Not so heavy but still too tall for me as I got older. Did the same mod and I love it. No longer feels heavy. Only issue is in both cases the center stand is all but useless and one must be careful using the side stand as the bikes are close to vertical. So I choose a flat surface or one that slopes downward on the sidestand side. Neither bike seem to suffer any handling issues. So far my EV still is OK for me but each year it seems to get heavier and taller.
Bill  (going on 74)
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: krglorioso on November 28, 2021, 10:49:47 PM
XACKLY has identified the problem I face increasingly.  It's the 0-5mph zone that causes me the grey hairs.  Age has nothing--oh, forget that.  But, I have ridden many bikes that scared the wits out of me until I passed the 5mph point and then all was well in my world, until I had to stop..

Clearly, being able to "flatfoot" with a generous knee angle is very comforting, even if the bike may be a tad heavier than I'd prefer.  This is why size 5 women frequently can handle a Harley "big twin" and I'm a bit "antsy" on my Breva 750, which weighs 250# less, but which seat is 4-5 inches taller.  Handlebar height and width enter into the equation, too. 

My Suzuki DR-650s weighed only 360# topped off, but with a near 35" seat height I never felt comfortable until I lowered them several inches.

Growing less tolerant of frustrations as I age, I have elected to both lower my bikes and lighten them where possible.  When a happy medium cannot be achieved, the bike's occupancy of my garage is in peril.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Shorty on November 28, 2021, 11:12:51 PM
It's an easy equation for me.. I ride mostly alone, and usually not far. I might do a 150 mile day, if it's nice outside, and the destination is somewhere hilly. I don't need to worry about keeping up with someone, or ruining their ride by making them wait. No passenger to accomodate. So, the little (seat height 29.7) 350 Enfield is plenty most times. When I do ride with my geezer buddies, I take the taller (mine sits at about 33 inches) DR650. It is as fast as I dare go, handles well, has small bags and a windscreen. Either bike is easy to load on a trailer if I want to go riding further afield and camp. IF the Meteor was a 650, it would be about the perfect bike for me these days.   They are working on it:   (https://i.cdn.newsbytesapp.com/images/l16720211127172643.jpeg)  The photo is of a concept bike shown last week at EICMA. I'm hoping for a lower zoot version with higher bars, wider seat and less bling.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Testarossa on November 29, 2021, 12:50:13 AM
No reason to choose between the two.

73 years old now, 30" inseam and 148 lb wet. Nowhere near as strong as I was even ten years ago. I now ride five bikes. I can flat-foot all of them. Lightest is the XT250 at 290 lb.  Heaviest is the Mille at 540 lb and I would never own anything heavier -- I'm very careful moving it around the barn and center-standing is a grunt. Sweet spot is 400 lb, which describes the TR6R and the Funduro. Radically different bikes but both easy to mount, ride and park. Then there's the T, 490 lb dry, which I've had so long it makes me feel like the Motaur.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: geoff in almonte on November 29, 2021, 06:58:39 AM
I have had to address this very situation. My Audace was getting too awkward for me. On one of my multi day trips this past summer I dropped it once and almost lost it a second time. I also didn't go a couple of places I wanted to go due to whether I could get in and be able to get back out. The Audace has other issues besides weight,  31* steering head angle and almost 67" wheelbase.

So I started shopping new bikes. First I was looking at lower seat height which took me to Indian and Harley. Gotta have a traditional looking machine. Even though the Chief and the Sportglide had low seats they still felt heavy which I felt wouldn't help much. I went to the Euro bikes dealership where the salesman pointed me towards a Bonneville. Even though they have a fairly tall seat it felt a lot more manageable. After a short test ride and further research I did the deal. I also went this way because they were willing to give me a decent trade in value for the Audace. If I tried to sell it privately it would probably sit forever as it sat on the dealers floor for 3 years when it was new.

I have had the Trumpet for just over a week with only 300 miles so far but it is fulfilling my needs. Easy to move around, ride at slow speeds and get on and off. I have read that some say they are heavy handling but at highway speeds works for me. That is primarily what I wanted, I have a V7 for curvy mtn roads and around town not that the Triumph couldn't do that with ease. The only negatives that I see so far are the chain drive and valve adjustments. Fortunately valve adjustments are 10,000 miles apart.

This is what I have done, others may have different needs, wants or ?
kk

+1 on this.  I went from a CalVin to a T120 Bonneville.  I just couldn't move the Guzzi around the garage with any degree of confidence.  I have to back the bike out and turn it around before riding and could not do this while sitting on it.

The Triumph is 250lbs lighter, more powerful and with a few upgrades (Tires, Corbin, Ohlins, V&H) is a very competent machine for both touring (1-up) and backroad scratching.

I'm 68, 5'8" with a 28" inseam.  I can easily flat foot on both sides and can move the bike around while sitting on it.  The Bonnie is lighter, lower, and narrower than the Guzzi.

MY $.02

Cheers!

G
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 29, 2021, 07:24:32 AM
The only bike I've ever been able to "flat foot" is the AeroLario, and will be my wind up bike. You know.. the one you wind up with.  :wink: The G5 went to a good home last Summer, and a couple of prospective "keepers" are thinking about the Mighty Scura and being vetted.
So.
Low seat height *and* lighter weight gets my vote.  :smiley: You do what you have to do. I'm currently building my flying motorcyle for when I'm older but still want bugs in my teeth and wind in my hair. All I'll have to do with this bad boy is sit down..
(https://static.imgzeit.com/large/e7078648f4899c62/IMG_20211109_162749134.jpg)
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: mechanicsavant on November 29, 2021, 09:04:15 AM
Yup , life is a balancing act . Having never owned a bike much over 525 Lbs. (85 K bike naked). I’m not familiar with super heavyweights . My last “big bike “as an R1200r . A bit tall foe my 28 inch inseam , especially when loaded or 2 up . Now I’m quite satisfied with my 2 small blocks , 16V 7 II (well sorted) & a 21 V7/850 Centanerio !
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Tom H on November 29, 2021, 11:16:28 AM
On seat height.

Remember that a low seat is not the only answer. A big wide saddle seat may keep your feet off the ground. A narrow seat at the same height would have you flat footed with your knees bent.

For instance. My EVT has a lower seat than my Eldo/Ambo. The seat on the Eldo is much narrower than the EVT. My feet are flat, but my knees are almost straight down, almost like I'm standing. I feel much more stable at a stop this way rather than with my legs spread wide like on a wide saddle seat.

Center of gravity also has a lot to do with it. My EVT just feels like it's top heavy. My Eldo feels like the weight is down low. My HD also has the weight down low feeling. My HD is the heaviest of my bikes, but feels much lighter than my EVT.

Also, if I were to tip over in a parking lot on my EVT, I think I would require help. My other bikes I think I could manage to pick up.

One last thing. Bikes that scare you at low speed. My EVT does that. The biggest issue is how far the forks turn from lock to lock. I think it has the narrowest range of all my bike. Making a slow tight U turn can make me feel a bit uncomfortable. Also when your in a parking lot and want to back into a spot on your right. You turn to the left to back in. I have hit the fork stop too many times doing this and feel like I'm going to drop the bike because it's trying to fall to the inside of my slow turn.

Just my 2 pennies,
Tom
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on November 29, 2021, 06:14:34 PM
I thought I would lower the seat on my Eldorado
(https://i.ibb.co/YyHGrsL/DSCN0773.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7RsF9m1)
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 29, 2021, 06:32:01 PM
Appropriate..  :smiley:
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Guzzistajohn on November 29, 2021, 07:46:54 PM
I'm not as geezered up as some of you guys, but I'd rather move my Tenere 700 around the garage than that heavy ass lump of a Cal-Vin I sold.

Flat footing with both feet is SO over rated. Your foot should stay on the brake.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: MMRanch on November 29, 2021, 08:48:29 PM
At 68 years young and 5"10" , 450# is my upper limit.    My V7II is my big bike now , and can't think of why any bigger is ever needed  :police: ?    It does have the Corbin dual seat on it that is narrow in the front and I've lowered the forks about 1.5" and the rear shocks are on the bottom of their adjustment.

I vote for lighter being most important.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: wymple on November 29, 2021, 11:43:06 PM
Low seat. I can live with everything else.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: blackbuell on November 30, 2021, 05:15:11 AM
I'll be dealing with this issue over the winter: I am retired; my wife retires in April. We already take frequent long distance 2-up trips; will increase the frequency of them this year. I will be 73 in January, and at 5"7" my Norge is still OK for me to handle 1-up, but is becoming difficult when fully loaded and 2-up; can't quite flat-foot it, and the weight is problematic. I'll be looking to buy a touring bike that I can comfortably handle, fully loaded, 2-up.

We do have an Indian Scout, which is heavier than the Norge, but has a very low seat height (about 25"). The scout is easier for me to handle 2-up than the Norge, but it is not well suited for 2-up touring: small luggage capacity, poor wind management, uncomfortable seats.

The fact that the Scout is easy for me to handle 2-up suggests to me that the bigger issue for me is seat height rather than weight. However, I still would prefer to purchase a bike capable of 2-up touring that has both low seat height and light weight. Another issue for me: I take many trips across the US great plains; prefer to take interstates in order to get to my destinations (Rocky Mt. states, west coast) in a hurry. I want a bike that can cruise all day at 80-85 mph.

I don't think there is currently any bike available that meets all of these criteria; will likely have to reach some sort of compromise. I hope to test ride many bike over the next 6 months.

Jon



Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Sye on November 30, 2021, 06:19:25 AM
I don't think it's a simple choice between seat height and light weight. I've been through something similar recently due to cancer and being left much weaker after treatment. I ended up with a V85tt which is quite tall and heavier than I would like and a Fantic Caballero 500 which is very light but not very powerful at 45HP.

For me, the main consideration is ease of pushing it around, not riding it. As with all bikes, they weigh nothing when moving and can easily be balanced when stopped. I found the V85TT to be very easy to wheel around despite its weight. The bars are wide and give great leverage and the weight is carried low down making it easier to balance. I don't notice the weight at all when on the bike but admit that I can't sit on the bike and manouver it with ease so I get off and push it. I'm 5'11" and 185lb.

The Fantic is no problem in any respect. I only ever ride it solo and it's quick enough to keep up with much more powerful bikes on A and B roads. It never goes near the motorway, handles better than any bike should and always brings a smile to my face. If it was the only bike I could ride I'd still be happy but longer trips would have to be planned to avoid extended 75mph plus stints.

The only way to be sure is to do all three. Manouver the bike round the car park, ride it solo and two up.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Kev m on November 30, 2021, 06:40:56 AM
I'll be dealing with this issue over the winter: I am retired; my wife retires in April. We already take frequent long distance 2-up trips; will increase the frequency of them this year. I will be 73 in January, and at 5"7" my Norge is still OK for me to handle 1-up, but is becoming difficult when fully loaded and 2-up; can't quite flat-foot it, and the weight is problematic. I'll be looking to buy a touring bike that I can comfortably handle, fully loaded, 2-up.

We do have an Indian Scout, which is heavier than the Norge, but has a very low seat height (about 25"). The scout is easier for me to handle 2-up than the Norge, but it is not well suited for 2-up touring: small luggage capacity, poor wind management, uncomfortable seats.

The fact that the Scout is easy for me to handle 2-up suggests to me that the bigger issue for me is seat height rather than weight. However, I still would prefer to purchase a bike capable of 2-up touring that has both low seat height and light weight. Another issue for me: I take many trips across the US great plains; prefer to take interstates in order to get to my destinations (Rocky Mt. states, west coast) in a hurry. I want a bike that can cruise all day at 80-85 mph.

I don't think there is currently any bike available that meets all of these criteria; will likely have to reach some sort of compromise. I hope to test ride many bike over the next 6 months.

Jon

Man I  want to say the answer is a Cali 1100 w/ big windshield or fairing or a similar setup Rubbermount Sporty or T120.

Hell the Triumph Speedmaster could do the job, though I like the Bobber better for ergos it would be work to make a Bobber passenger ready, never mind tour ready.

But if that's not the direction you want to go, what about some of the R9T or R12 offerings from BMW?

Or what can be done to lower a Norge - forks up the trees an inch? Shorter shock or some change to linkage?!?


EDIT - OMG OMG OMG - how awesome would it be if Guzzi killed the 1400 Cali and came out with a new smaller/lighter V100 based Cali EV!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Moparnut72 on November 30, 2021, 08:42:23 AM
I have been yelling for something like this for a couple of years now. I had been agitating for a V85 street going version but this would be better yet. BTW the 1400s are dead now but you already knew that.   :thumb:
kk
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: drw916 on November 30, 2021, 05:47:17 PM
65 years old, 5’6” with a 29” inseam.
I have a tall, but very light KTM 690 Duke and a low but heavy Honda ST 1300 (known as Jumbo to my wife).
Both work well for me, seat height is more important.  My days of riding GS’s are over.  When I decide to go to a single  bike I want approximately 500 pounds with a 31 inch seat height.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: SIR REAL ED on November 30, 2021, 06:02:26 PM
Just occurred to me that if this thread was about women and not bikes, everybody's answers would change and most of us would be in agreement......
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Guzzidad on November 30, 2021, 06:04:45 PM
  I was dealing with this conflict last year. I turned 69 years old and my Norge just got to be too heavy for me. And with just a 30" inseam I was uncomfortable on less than perfect parking areas. I still wanted a sport/touring type bike and I found exactly that in a 2008 Triumph 1050 Sprint ST. 150# lighter than the Norge and a lower seat. Not a lot of them out there for sale at a reasonable price. I had to fly to Rockford IL and ride it home to Tampa, some 1,200 miles.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: kingoffleece on November 30, 2021, 09:46:03 PM
Much more convenient to get a custom seat and adjust height than a custom xxxxxxx to lower the weight.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Dukedesmo on December 01, 2021, 05:30:10 AM
Whilst not particularly old, I would prefer a lighter bike but not too low.


My only Guzzi, LM2 is both my lowest and heaviest bike, neither is a problem whilst riding but I find it awkward to manoeuvre it around. The weight obviously makes it more difficult but the low height is a bigger issue in that, whilst pushing them about I like to lean a bike against my hip but the Guzzi is too low for that and hits me in the thigh, making it more difficult to hold it up.


Obviously too high is a problem whilst riding - feet down when stopped and getting on/off but unless it's an extreme off-road/Motocross bike (usually light weight though) then I've never noticed it so, unless things change as I age, I prefer lower weight but not lower height. 
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: bobrebos on December 03, 2021, 01:43:54 AM
I have a 2010 gold wing and 2013 Stelvio.  Next bike will be a lite one.  Because I’m getting older.  I’m 6’ tall and seat height doesent bother me. 
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Testarossa on December 03, 2021, 01:12:34 PM
In this regard, and I've mentioned it elsewhere: I got curious about Guzzi ergonomics and did a little research. The average height of an adult Italian male born in 148 is 171cm/5'7.3".  That's me now (I was 5'8.5" in 1970. The years take their toll, especially when you ski moguls).

Ignore inseam. Typical male leg length is  about 46% of body height measured floor to crotch (mine is 48% with shoes on). For me that's 32 inches. Seat height for both my 850T and TR6R is 80cm/31.5"   There's a reason they were designed that way.

For the same birth year, average British height is 175cm/5'9", and average American height 5'9.7"

People born in 1980 average about an inch taller than those born in 1948. Since then average height worldwide has decreased slightly.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: henwilv on December 03, 2021, 03:51:38 PM
Just occurred to me that if this thread was about women and not bikes, everybody's answers would change and most of us would be in agreement......


Of course, it would all be about the seat height!!! :violent1:

However coming back on topic, I find my Audace absolutely fine to ride, fast or slow (and like quite a few here, I'm also a bit vertically challenged and just hit the magical three score and ten), it's anything but cumbersome, it steers quickly despite its long wheelbase and weight and I ride in the Black Forest region of Germany (SW, Baden-Württemberg) where  the curves are connected by curves, doglegs and hairpins, so it has to be reasonably nimble, and it certainly is. It's excellent on the autobahn, too although I avoid it if possible. Pushing it around the garage is a different story as all 300+ kg come immediately into play, but I can still manage ok thanks in part to the long handlebar. My T3 is much easier to push around and is also low enough for me to get my feet down comfortably enough.
Right now I vote for seat height. If I ever stop riding the Audace it will mean my priorities have changed.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: henwilv on December 03, 2021, 04:10:40 PM
I thought I would lower the seat on my Eldorado
(https://i.ibb.co/YyHGrsL/DSCN0773.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7RsF9m1)

For a better ride, go wide! (whose advertising was that back in the 80s)
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: straycatskip on December 04, 2021, 01:21:28 PM
I am 71 with a 29" inseam.  I used to ride a Harley Ultra.  In 2013, I recognized that paddling around a sloping driveway and parking in sloping parking areas, often with lots of potholes was increasingly becoming a challenge.  I also needed a much lighter bike that I could carry on a rack on the back of a travel trailer.   So I sold the Harley and bought a Suzuki V-Strom 650, weighing perhaps 440 lbs dry but having a much higher seat height.  The Suzuki worked well for me until my hips started to go.  The trick of standing on the peg to swing your leg over the seat works well on pavement or hard packed soil.  It doesn't work so well on sand or other soft ground where the stand wants to sink into the soil. I now also own a Guzzi V7, which is both lighter and lower than the V-Strom.  It is this combination that will keep me in the game the longest.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Rich A on December 04, 2021, 04:15:55 PM
Seat height and weight are important, of course, but my Convert is very easy to handle at parking lot speeds.

Rich A
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: MMRanch on December 04, 2021, 10:27:46 PM

I want a bike that can cruise all day at 80-85 mph.

Where is that kind of speed limit ?    But even if it is legal ... don't that kinda suck the fun out of ridding ?

That extra 10 mph makes the roses fly-by really quickly ... just saying !   :grin:
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Moparnut72 on December 04, 2021, 10:38:29 PM
I80 in Nevada east of Reno is posted at 80 mph. Traffic runs pretty much at 85, some higher. I rode it this past summer.  I ran at about 80, I had a naked bike, any faster resulted in too much pressure for extended periods.
kk
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Testarossa on December 04, 2021, 11:44:54 PM
Quote
my Convert is very easy to handle at parking lot speeds

Not having to feather a clutch does take some of the anxiety out of maneuvering below walking speed. One of the reasons scooters are so easy in tight quarters.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: s1120 on December 05, 2021, 04:51:27 AM
Im not as old as some of you, but at 56 im knocking on the door, and see the lights in the distance. Being 6'3" tall, with a 35" inseam does factor in for me. Also the fact that I really dont like foot forward riding. I really like my feet under me, or a little back, and if the seat is too short, its really cramped. My Cal Stone is really a little low for me. That being said I also dont really like real heavy bikes. Im pretty happy with the weight and balance of my stone, and not sure I would want to add many pounds to it. SO I guess my answer is taller seat, AND lighter weight!  I really see my self going to a more standard bike down the road like the V7. Granted I hardly rode at all last year so who knows.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Bill N on December 09, 2021, 03:25:40 PM
I'll repeat what I posted here a few days ago. Consider lowering your bike to make it fit you. Especially if you like everything else about the bike. It's so easy on most bikes. Just buy shorter dog bones for the rear and lower on the forks on the front (If necessary).  Worked perfectly for me on a FJR and a B12 Bandit. But it may make your center stand useless. In my case that was OK. The improvement was worth it.
Bill
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Roebling3 on December 09, 2021, 04:03:52 PM
Chuck!
I like it already. I'm looking forward from the tail? Your not truly flying If you don't catch some oily airborne bugs.  Best wishes.  R3~
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 10, 2021, 07:35:12 AM
Chuck!
I like it already. I'm looking forward from the tail? Your not truly flying If you don't catch some oily airborne bugs.  Best wishes.  R3~

Yep. A labor of love.  It's entirely fabricated of spruce, 1/32" plywood, and .035" wall 4130 tubing. It will have a 3 cylinder radial engine on the nose. Open cockpit of course.  :smiley: Empty weight around 250 lbs. Will cruise about 60mph, and be totally useless except to survey the countryside at 300 or 400 feet.  :smiley: *Many* hours of enjoyable labor.. but I like to make stuff..<shrug>
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: stonelover on December 11, 2021, 12:46:23 PM
Both are important to me. I'm five feet eight and one half inches and weigh 140 lbs.. Expect to turn 83 in January and would like for my 2016 Stone to be 1" lower and 40 lbs. lighter.
Title: Re: Which is preferable for older riders: lite weight or low seat?
Post by: SportsterDoc on December 11, 2021, 03:50:30 PM

I want a bike that can cruise all day at 80-85 mph.

Where is that kind of speed limit ?    But even if it is legal ... don't that kinda suck the fun out of ridding ?

That extra 10 mph makes the roses fly-by really quickly ... just saying !   :grin:

Utah Interstate 15 north of St. George


(https://i.ibb.co/K60zLL7/11-Utah-I15-N-of-St-George-28-July-2020.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K60zLL7)


Seat height is important, but not as low as the Ryker, as visibility is reduced.
My Triumph, Honda CB1100 and V7II were just right.
Getting older, but not yet old (2 months shy of 75)