What is it like to ride a 43 year old motorcycle?

[Skyguyz]

Well, this old Norton has been through a lot. Still one of the best bikes in terms of shear pleasure to ride. It has a "Soul" and you can simply

ride it by what she sounds like. No ABS, no heated anything. Just two cylinders and whole lot of fun.

Click https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsxxnYFaddA

[Old Jock]

That is absolutely gorgeous

What a beautiful machine, like the new dash too

Thanks for posting the link

You need to work on your sound recording (I know its not so easy)

[JJ]

Great video...beautiful scenery...fabulous classic Commando!! :1:  

I wish I had $25K-$28K disposable lettuce laying around, I would not hesitate to have Matt Rambo from the Colorado Norton Works (CNW) build me one...just like this! :1:

[Lannis]

The INOA national Norton rally is in a couple weeks at Buena Vista Virginia, so I'll be riding/camping there on the Norton just to see what other Norton riders have got, and what they've done to make their bikes "regular riders".

I've still got the original Zener charging system on mine, and the original Amals, because they work and I understand them.    I took the perfectly good points off and replaced them with a Pazon because I don't like adjusting points on any bike, and because (like any British twin with points/coil) you can't adjust BOTH the dwell AND the timing to be optimum on both cylinders, and I don't like that.

I updated the anti-wet-sumping valve from a piston to a ball (much more reliable) on the OUTLET side of the pump, and put heavier Hagon shocks on it (Fay and I ride it together a lot).   

Other than that, it's all stock and as you say, with two disc brakes and a 7-gallon fuel tank, you can ride anywhere with the best of them ....

Lannis

[JJ]

Hi Lannis - Please take a few photos at the Norton Rally!  I miss my Commando!! :1:

[PeteS]

Thats a fine ride Sky. Matt does a nice job on these.
Can't make the Rally as its the same time as a family reunion. I think I have done two at Buena Vista plus a Guzzi rally.
Lannis what model Pazon are you using? I am thinking of replacing my Boyer with one.

Pete

[Lannis]

Lannis what model Pazon are you using? I am thinking of replacing my Boyer with one.

Pete

When I decided to replace the points, I asked a Norton expert friend what he would use.   He suggested calling the dude (can't remember his name) at clubmanracing.com and letting him know my wants, use of the bike, what's important to me, etc.

The guy there is the real thing.   He patiently went over the characteristics of the Boyer, Pazon, Wassell, and Tri-Spark ignitions that he sells.   

Wassell is cheapest at $119 but was not his first recommendation unless price is a major concern.

Tri-Spark is the most expensive, and it's self-contained under the points cover - ie there's no "black box" to mount up under a frame tube and wire in.    He said it would be a good choice, and acknowledged, however, that some folks seemed to think it had a higher failure rate because all of the electronics is inside the points cover with the engine heat.

He said that the Boyer and Pazon were about equal - I have a very reliable 10-year-old Boyer on my BSA, but went ahead with the Pazon because it will work with no more than 8 volts, and with the electric-start Norton, the voltage drops to 10 or 11 volts even with a hot battery while the starter is turning.   It's a Pazon Sure-Fire, not sure of the model number if it has one.    It's working great.   I did notice that (as opposed to the Boyer on the BSA) that you have to strobe-time it once you set the static timing by centering the dot in the hole.   It was a bit too advanced when setting it by eye.   On the Boyer, I didn't touch the timing after I static-set it.

HTH

Lannis

[Skyguyz]

When I decided to replace the points, I asked a Norton expert friend what he would use.   He suggested calling the dude (can't remember his name) at clubmanracing.com and letting him know my wants, use of the bike, what's important to me, etc.

The guy there is the real thing.   He patiently went over the characteristics of the Boyer, Pazon, Wassell, and Tri-Spark ignitions that he sells.   

Wassell is cheapest at $119 but was not his first recommendation unless price is a major concern.

Tri-Spark is the most expensive, and it's self-contained under the points cover - ie there's no "black box" to mount up under a frame tube and wire in.    He said it would be a good choice, and acknowledged, however, that some folks seemed to think it had a higher failure rate because all of the electronics is inside the points cover with the engine heat.

He said that the Boyer and Pazon were about equal - I have a very reliable 10-year-old Boyer on my BSA, but went ahead with the Pazon because it will work with no more than 8 volts, and with the electric-start Norton, the voltage drops to 10 or 11 volts even with a hot battery while the starter is turning.   It's a Pazon Sure-Fire, not sure of the model number if it has one.    It's working great.   I did notice that (as opposed to the Boyer on the BSA) that you have to strobe-time it once you set the static timing by centering the dot in the hole.   It was a bit too advanced when setting it by eye.   On the Boyer, I didn't touch the timing after I static-set it.

HTH

Lannis

I have had both the Boyer and the Tri-Spark and the 'Ol Britts" Power Arc. The Boyer is dated, the Power Arc is ok but has moving parts. The Tri-Spark although it is expensive, works the best. There was a rash of failures with the old units but that has subsided.

[Skyguyz]

Great video...beautiful scenery...fabulous classic Commando!! :1:  

I wish I had $25K-$28K disposable lettuce laying around, I would not hesitate to have Matt Rambo from the Colorado Norton Works (CNW) build me one...just like this! :1:

When I first bought this Norton it was stock and leaked, etc. I decided to rebuild it myself using parts from CNW. That was 6 years ago. Hindsight, I would have saved $ and time having Matt do the work and honestly, no one can build a bike with as much attention to detail as Matt. I had Matt do a "Refresh" with new carbs and electric start, etc. There was many things on the bike that I did not install proper and Matt sorted it all out. It is now the Norton that I wanted all along. True, it is a "Resto-mod" but I still have a couple "Old bikes" (79 CBX & 75 Kawasaki 750 H2C) that are closer to OEM than the Norton.
  For now, I'll just enjoy the ride!

[Huzo]

Well, this old Norton has been through a lot. Still one of the best bikes in terms of shear pleasure to ride. It has a "Soul" and you can simply

ride it by what she sounds like. No ABS, no heated anything. Just two cylinders and whole lot of fun.

Click https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsxxnYFaddA

Like comparing a Super Constellation to a B 787 Dreamliner ?

[Sheepdog]

Boyers, a single Mikuni, and a belt-primary were practically ubiquitous amongst daily-driver Commandos for a long time. What is the current preferred setup?

[cruzziguzzi]

Boyers, a single Mikuni, and a belt-primary were practically ubiquitous amongst daily-driver Commandos for a long time. What is the current preferred setup?

Yup, those and modern case sealing, that French starter upgrade, new tech illum as well as poly Isolastics... Makes these wonderful go-to bikes!


Todd.

[Rough Edge racing]

I have had both the Boyer and the Tri-Spark and the 'Ol Britts" Power Arc. The Boyer is dated, the Power Arc is ok but has moving parts. The Tri-Spark although it is expensive, works the best. There was a rash of failures with the old units but that has subsided.

  In you opinion, why does the Tri Spark work better? Is it an actual performance difference?

[Lannis]

Boyers, a single Mikuni, and a belt-primary were practically ubiquitous amongst daily-driver Commandos for a long time. What is the current preferred setup?

Lots of single Mikunis around, but I've fooled with Amals for a long time and don't have a problem with them; unless a start-from-scratch replacement was in order, I'm sticking with Amals.

Lots of belt-drives around too, but on all my old bikes, the oil-bath primary chain is the lowest-wear, most reliable part of the bike.   I have no idea what a belt drive would do for me.

EI seems a good idea for a LOT of reasons!

The guys who have the belts and Mikunis can say why they switched ....

Lannis

[flynguzzi]

SWEET!!!!  +10

[jbell]

Absolutely beautimos Skyguyz.  Good job.  When the video began, I thought you were going to slalom the traffic cones.   

[johnr]

I've still got the original Zener charging system on mine, and the original Amals, because they work and I understand them.   I took the perfectly good points off and replaced them with a Pazon because I don't like adjusting points on any bike, and because (like any British twin with points/coil) you can't adjust BOTH the dwell AND the timing to be optimum on both cylinders, and I don't like that.
Lannis

Erm... what? Perhaps you need to educate me Lannis.  I have always understood that the thing with dwell was to have enough of it... that there was a minimum but never a maximum.  The twin point (or triple point) set up that was native to these bikes was never going to give a dwell problem with their single lobe cam. ( nor points bounce either)

[oldbike54]

Erm... what? Perhaps you need to educate me Lannis.  I have always understood that the thing with dwell was to have enough of it... that there was a minimum but never a maximum.  The twin point (or triple point) set up that was native to these bikes was never going to give a dwell problem with their single lobe cam. ( nor points bounce either)

 Oh dwell 

 Dusty

[Muzz]

Erm... what? Perhaps you need to educate me Lannis.  I have always understood that the thing with dwell was to have enough of it... that there was a minimum but never a maximum.  The twin point (or triple point) set up that was native to these bikes was never going to give a dwell problem with their single lobe cam. ( nor points bounce either)

I'll give you a ring in the next day or so John There is a lot of inter-dependency between the dwell and points gap which also affects the timing, the "fatness" of the spark and also how long the points will last.

[oldbike54]

I'll give you a ring in the next day or so John There is a lot of inter-dependency between the dwell and points gap which also affects the timing, the "fatness" of the spark and also how long the points will last.

 That's true , but John is referring to the dwell angle on an ignition system where the points are correctly gapped , 15 thou for most of those old Brit twins . Sufficient dwell angle will never be a problem for an engine running a set of points per cylinder , heck , American V8 engines ran single points with no issues until hot rodders figured out how to make them spin up to 5,000 RPM's . I always found the idea that each cylinder needed to be timed independently silly , BMW ran single points setups in twins that would turn over 7,000 RPM's with zero trouble , the Lucas 4CA and 6CA points systems were a holdover from an era when British machines were more complex than need be .
 
 Side note , there was a company in the States that made a points cam with two high spots for Brit twins so they could run a single set of points , usually Fairbanks Morse , worked a charm .

 Dusty

[Rough Edge racing]

 Side note , there was a company in the States that made a points cam with two high spots for Brit twins so they could run a single set of points , usually Fairbanks Morse , worked a charm .

 Dusty

  The single points is a waste spark system...All the aftermarket EI's are waste spark..... Before the late 60's the Lucas points for Brit twins, at least Triumph, had no provision to adjust the timing of each cylinder other than setting the timing one cylinder and then adjusting the gap of the other cylinder's points to get the timing on the mark...This may be what Lannis means...?
 The points work fine when maintained but the auto advance units wear.... and on rare occasions can stick in the full advance or retard position with the usual meltdowns if the rider doesn't pay attention...
 Jim Noll from Rochester NY, a long time Norton rider told me he uses a Mikuni single carb for the reason it lasts   80,000 miles compared to maybe 20,000 for the Original type Amal Concentrics...The newer Amal Premiers have anodized slides with a longer life...
 I had a 74 Norton 850 for a few years...I never adjusted to the engine shaking on the rubber mounts below about 2500 rpm..Same for the Buell I had a few years ago....But at highways speeds the Norton is very smooth..

[Lannis]

  ....had no provision to adjust the timing of each cylinder other than setting the timing one cylinder and then adjusting the gap of the other cylinder's points to get the timing on the mark...This may be what Lannis means...?
 The points work fine when maintained but the auto advance units wear....

Yes.   And not only do the auto-advance units wear, but the points are going out of adjustment a little bit every time the engine turns over, and you have to keep after it.   And condensers lose their condensing mojo, and the points surface gets pitted and .... and it's just an unnecessary pain in the rear when EIs are available that keep both cylinders on time ALL THE TIME and in sync with each other and don't wear until they fail completely, and so far that hasn't happened to me on any of mine ...

There's a similar argument as to why you should get rid of pot-metal dual Amals and replace them with a single Mikuni, but I'm OK with being inconsistent about all that since I ride the bike all the time, I'm the one who will pay any consequences behind it, and have earned the right to be unreasonable about it.   

Lannis

[Robert]

43?

My Trail 90 is 48.

But the shade of yellow is different.

[nc43bsa]

I've used Boyers on British bikes since the late 70's and IIRC I've had 3 failures out of the scores of units I've installed:  1 failed completely within a week of installation & was replaced under warranty; 1 quit advancing, but would still run, although badly;  1 rotor broke, although to be fair, I had machined it slightly to get better engagement with the cam on my race bike.

I amassed a stock of Boyer parts while I was racing (just in case, ya know), and mostly loaned them to fellow racers.  I even modified the wiring so I could change out the box in seconds using only 2 multi-pin connectors.

[Arizona Wayne]

If I'm not mistaken, this is a Moto Guzzi website.  Pardon me, but 2 years ago I bought a `77 Convert. for so little $ if I told you how much you wouldn't believe me.  I rode it to the Datil, New Mexico Guzzi Rally last summer (500 mi. each way) and it purred like it was new @ 75-85 mph on Interstate 40.  Since it has a 6.6 gallon gas tank I only had to stop for gas once.  I rode it back home on a more challenging, curvy, high speed road just because I can and it never missed a beat.  It has a deep sump so had no worries about oil loss and it has a Dyna S ignition.  In fact it's in better shape than my `80 Convert. we rode 2 up & loaded pulling a tent trailer back in the `90s cross country.  It's a big block Guzzi, not some pretty day tripper site.  When some other brand riders see it's vintage license plate, they give me a thumbs up. 

[Denis]

My Eldo is 43 and I'd ride it anywhere, any time!
And my Indian is 77. It is an absolute blast to ride!!!!

[Ronkom]

When I take out the '74 Eldo instead of the EV, the best comparison I can come up with is "A different kind of grin" The Eldo taps my soul on the shoulder & says "relax, lets cruise & smell the roses-even if the roses are a couple states away".
Ron

[Yukonica]

No ABS, no heated anything. Just two cylinders and whole lot of fun.

For a moment I thought you were talking about my V7 (2013)... has all the same features.
I will admit yours is much better groomed.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Rode my 48 year old Guzzi (Ambassador) about 70 miles on Saturday before the rain threatened to undo the bath I gave it the day before. Paid $2000 for it 20 years ago and other than a top end rebuild, it's never had anything much done to it. At 109k miles it's still on it's original clutch and u-joint, transmission and bottom-end of the engine have never been apart, rear drive has been resealed. Still running breaker point ignition too.

Rode the 41 year old Guzzi (Convert) 416 miles yesterday - down to "Bikes and Breakfast" in Clifton, VA, then west on US50 to Romney, WV, north to Ebensburg, PA and home.

[Lannis]

Rode my 48 year old Guzzi (Ambassador) ...

Oh yeah?    Well, I'm prepping my 56 year old motorcycle for a ride to Ohio, then the Reliability Run, and the ride home, 1000 mile weekend or so in a few weeks.   (Some Cannonball Run rider will be along in a few minutes to top that ...  )

Some of these old bikes can turn in performance and reliability numbers that new ones might be proud of .... It'd be interesting to have a real "road test" comparison between a V700 and a R60/2, speaking of 50 year old bikes ....

Lannis