Author Topic: What happens when your electric car runs out of juice out in the country?  (Read 15140 times)

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 14141
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
This happens.  :grin:

« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 06:51:09 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

Offline Lannis

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 26507
  • Location: Central Virginia
Like spending 2 hours siphoning gas into the tank with a coffee-stirrer .... A good illustration of energy density ....

Lannis
"Hard pounding, this, gentlemen; let's see who pounds the longest".

Offline Triple Jim

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5930
    • Lakeland Services Company
  • Location: North Central North Carolina
A guy I once did some engineering work for who is in the charging station business said that an electric car is like a gasoline powered car with a 4 gallon gas tank that takes 8 hours to fill.
When the Brussels sprout fails to venture from its lair, it is time to roll a beaver up a grassy slope.

Offline Guzzistajohn

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12374
  • Location: Missouri Ozarks
Would have guessed


<shrug>
ебать Россию!   Not anti social-pro solitude

Wildguzzi.com


Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24009
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
I see Honda selling a shiteload of those little suitcase generators in the coming years. Jerry Can of the 21st Century! LOL!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Michael T.
Aux Arcs de Akansea
2004 California EV Touring II
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline ohiorider

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8086
  • "You can't fight in here - this is the War Room."
I see Honda selling a shiteload of those little suitcase generators in the coming years. Jerry Can of the 21st Century! LOL!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
What I see are companies like GE, Westinghouse, Tesla, and others (not to mention companies in other countries)  developing battery technology that permits batteries to carry us as far as a tank of gas does today, and that can be recharged in the same amount of time it takes to fill up with 20 gallons of 87 octane.  Tomorrow .... probably not.  In my remaining lifetime or later .... most likely.  It'll blow through just like CDs replaced LPs, and like streaming audio replaced CDs.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 08:38:37 PM by ohiorider »
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120 (Traded Dec 2021)
New:  2021 Kawasaki W800

Offline MMRanch

  • MMRanch
  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 705
  • Evil wins if Good Men do Nothing
  • Location: Lynchburg , Tn.
How about mimicking the Diesel trains ... just put the generator in as standard equipment ?   I might buy one then !   :wink:

2016 V7-II Stone
2022 Royal Enfield Meteor Stellar Blue

Offline Aaron D.

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5883
You mean like a Chevy Volt?

I think GM is heading for fuel cells. Solid state batteries seem to be getting a lot of quiet attention too.

Offline Gliderjohn

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 6559
From ohiorider:
Quote
What I see are companies like GE, Westinghouse, Tesla, and others (not to mention companies in other countries)  developing battery technology that permits batteries to carry us as far as a tank of gas does today, and that can be recharged in the same amount of time it takes to fill up with 20 gallons of 87 octane.  Tomorrow .... probably not.  In my remaining lifetime or later .... most likely.  It'll blow through just like CDs replaced LPs, and like streaming audio replaced CDs.
Maybe not be able to recharge as quick but if the battery was made universal and small enough to swapped out, one could then "fill the tank" very quickly. Just have exchange stations instead of gas stations. We will see.....stay tuned.
GliderJohn
John Peters
East Mountains, NM

Offline Green1000S

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1334
Very green to recharge it with a generator.... doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose ?
Lauri
2014 Green Stelvio NTX
2016 Stornello #101
1972 Bultaco Matador SD
2016 KTM Duke 390
49cc 1921 Guzzi Board Track Racer;-)
1968 Riverside MW 125
1972 Bultaco Matador M82 Six Days
2 Robin's + 1/2 doz other mopeds

Ciao!

Offline Ncdan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5878
My idea is probably worth millions so I won’t give it away here but it involves charging the batteries while in motion like a how powered alternator do the batteries never fully discharged:)

Offline not-fishing

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1233
  • Location: Folsom, Ca
From ohiorider:Maybe not be able to recharge as quick but if the battery was made universal and small enough to swapped out, one could then "fill the tank" very quickly. Just have exchange stations instead of gas stations. We will see.....stay tuned.
GliderJohn

Nah, I'm watching the market for my next stock "roll of the dice" -- Solid State Batteries.

I remember being in College when the first 4 function Ti's along with HP came out.

Then there's the liquid crystal that a Chem Prof of mine showed me.

I figure solid state batteries is going to be the next big jump.

Solid State vs Li Poly Batteries: 
Quote
In summary, the key benefits of all these chemical differences from a consumer perspective are: up to 6 times faster charging, up to twice the energy density, a longer cycle life of up to 10 years compared to 2, and no flammable components.

http://www.androidauthority.com/lithium-ion-vs-solid-state-battery-726142/



Griso 1100
Rosso Corsa Lemans
1/2 a V50 III (with my son)
V65 SP - Finished but the Dyna died so it's non-op'd
'75 850T with sidecar - a new project and adventure

Offline tris

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2794
  • Location: United Kingdom
If you're commuting from home to the office and you can charge up at either end then electric cars fine, but IMO the whole thing with electric vehicles isn't fully evolved yet

I sometimes wonder where people think the electricity comes from to put in their electric car.

Wind is coming along, but the vast majority of electricity still comes from burning fossil fuels so simplistically the pollution issue is just being moved outside the big cities.

Nuke power stations are probably the solution but everyone runs sacred of them and with the waste they produce there are valid reasons

Its a thorny issue that I suspect is unlikely to be solved in my life time



2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 (non ABS) "Bruno" - now sold
1995 Cali 1100 - carby   "Dino" -now sold
1993 TW125 "POS" - Resting

Offline ejs

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
  • Location: Nodeland. Norway. :-)
California EV 1999

Offline webmost

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 410
  • Safety Third
    • The Sotweed Factor
  • Location: Newark, Delaware
Long about 120 years ago, electric cars were the vehicle of choice in the USA. Better than steam because you didn't have to wait to heat the boiler. Better than noisy gasoline because you didn't scare the horses. Cities had battery swap stations for your delivery trucks, so's you could work all day. Electric trolleys. Electric was the future. Great way to piddle round the city without leaving piles of horse schitt along the way.

Then they began to build roads between cities. That's what killed the electric car right there.

To make things worse, you're no longer piddling along. Nowadays, people expect to rocket along. Takes energy. I wanted to buy an Empulse at my Indian dealer, two hours away. The driving radius was measured at like 30mph, to exaggerate. But at freeway speed, you'd exhaust that battery in about half an hour. I computed even taking nack roads I'd need three days to ride one home; providing I could find a couple motels would let me plug in overnight. Back in 1900, people didn't expect an electric heater in their car, nor electric windows,. etc. So much of the advances we've made in batteries in a century has been chewed up by increases in demand.

No. Electric is not the wave of the future. It is failed technology from the past.

... and fueled ultimately by coal and natural gas.
Unmitigated risk aversion is the new Puritanism; complete with witch hunts funny outfits and humorless preachers thundering doom. The Deity is Safety; Satan is a Lawyer; but the object is the same: to suck the life out of life and tell you how to live it.

Offline charlie b

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6941
Nope, eventually IC motors will go away.  Probably not in my lifetime or even my kids, but it will happen.
1984 850 T5 (sold)
2009 Dodge Cummins 2500

elvisboy77

  • Guest
What I see are companies like GE, Westinghouse, Tesla, and others (not to mention companies in other countries)  developing battery technology that permits batteries to carry us as far as a tank of gas does today, and that can be recharged in the same amount of time it takes to fill up with 20 gallons of 87 octane.  Tomorrow .... probably not.  In my remaining lifetime or later .... most likely.  It'll blow through just like CDs replaced LPs, and like streaming audio replaced CDs.

I would be interested to know what percentage of the US utility grid could handle the load of a fast battery charge.  Methinks it is a very low number......(queue the sound of sizzling wires LOL)

Offline ohiorider

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8086
  • "You can't fight in here - this is the War Room."
A different approach to the problem from Purdue University.  Change spent electrolyte for renewed electrolyte.

https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2017/Q2/instantly-rechargeable-battery-could-change-the-future-of-electric-and-hybrid-automobiles.html



Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120 (Traded Dec 2021)
New:  2021 Kawasaki W800

Offline tris

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2794
  • Location: United Kingdom
A different approach to the problem from Purdue University.  Change spent electrolyte for renewed electrolyte.

https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2017/Q2/instantly-rechargeable-battery-could-change-the-future-of-electric-and-hybrid-automobiles.html

Good spot - that's some neat thinking
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 (non ABS) "Bruno" - now sold
1995 Cali 1100 - carby   "Dino" -now sold
1993 TW125 "POS" - Resting

Offline perter

  • SP1000 owner since Aug 2015
  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Location: Denmark
Long about 120 years ago, electric cars were the vehicle of choice in the USA. Better than steam because you didn't have to wait to heat the boiler. Better than noisy gasoline because you didn't scare the horses. Cities had battery swap stations for your delivery trucks, so's you could work all day. Electric trolleys. Electric was the future. Great way to piddle round the city without leaving piles of horse schitt along the way.

Then they began to build roads between cities. That's what killed the electric car right there.

To make things worse, you're no longer piddling along. Nowadays, people expect to rocket along. Takes energy. I wanted to buy an Empulse at my Indian dealer, two hours away. The driving radius was measured at like 30mph, to exaggerate. But at freeway speed, you'd exhaust that battery in about half an hour. I computed even taking nack roads I'd need three days to ride one home; providing I could find a couple motels would let me plug in overnight. Back in 1900, people didn't expect an electric heater in their car, nor electric windows,. etc. So much of the advances we've made in batteries in a century has been chewed up by increases in demand.

No. Electric is not the wave of the future. It is failed technology from the past.

... and fueled ultimately by coal and natural gas.

I think your post nailed it quite well. Electric cars are for CITY PEOPLE living in urban areas as an alternative to public transportation. They are just a big women bags for shopping and commuting while sipping latte. You never put a hook on a electric car and haul a load of timber or a boat home like men do.

Unfortunately, all "decision makers" in our society lives in big cities and only talk to like minded people living in big cities and they promote "Green Energy" - HAH.

One day they will ban Gasoline cars and bikes..... Just another reason to keep your IC bikes well maintained.

Offline Groover

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2855
  • If it ain't broke, I'll break it.
    • Scooteropolis
  • Location: Columbus, Ohio
Seems if you put a bunch of these on the wheels, electric cars should go forever. Am I the only one thinking this is THE solution? Anyone else with me on this?  :azn:



1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped
1980 Vespa SI Moped
http://scooteropolis.com/

Offline ChuckH

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1520
I would be interested to know what percentage of the US utility grid could handle the load of a fast battery charge.  Methinks it is a very low number......(queue the sound of sizzling wires LOL) 

I agree.  I don't think we have the electric power generation capability nor the infrastructure to support "significant use" of electric powered vehicles.  Our metropolitan areas currently experience scheduled "brown-outs" during high use periods in the summer months.  Consider the added load when the commuters arrive home after a hard day at the office and plug in their Teslas expecting to get it charged up for tomorrow.

Edit: I googled the power requirements to charge a Tesla.  For home use, they recommend a NEMA 14-50 outlet wired on a separate circuit with a 50 Amp circuit breaker.  The expected operating current during the charging period is 40 Amps.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 08:22:49 AM by ChuckH »
Essential to the pursuit of happiness is knowing when you've caught it.
Life's what happens while you're making other plans.
I always knew I'd get old.  How fast it happened was a bit of a surprise, though.

'08 Chevy Corvette (non-Stealth, Bright Red)

Offline charlie b

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6941
A different approach to the problem from Purdue University.  Change spent electrolyte for renewed electrolyte.

https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2017/Q2/instantly-rechargeable-battery-could-change-the-future-of-electric-and-hybrid-automobiles.html

Fuel cells.  Kinda same concept but more efficient.  And hydrogen can be produced just about anywhere.
1984 850 T5 (sold)
2009 Dodge Cummins 2500

Offline vstevens

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 468
  • Location: San Diego
Professor John goodenough (that's really his name), the inventor of the lithium ion battery, recently co-invented a sodium ion battery that is supposed to be many times more energy dense, charges in minutes instead of hours, and uses cheap sodium instead of lithium.  He is in his 90's (must be a Guzzi rider, lol).  I don't know how fast these things can go from lab to manufacturing, but it sounds promising. 

Another advancement involves super capacitors instead of batteries.  I think Volvo is working on that one.  Of course, all that energy has to start somewhere ... the sun ☀️, and get transferred into s more usable form, electric ⚡️ power.

Coal and oil has changed human civilization forever, industrialized life just couldn't have happened without it.  Things change.


Offline Gliderjohn

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 6559
Almost one fourth of all Kansas energy now comes from wind. Solar is becoming much more common around here for both large and small applications. You can now get solar roofing shingles that look like normal shingles. I would think that soon electric cars will have all upper surfaces as solar panels which should go a long ways toward recharging.
GliderJohn
John Peters
East Mountains, NM

Offline Sasquatch Jim

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 9600
  • Sidecar - Best drive by shooting vehicle ever
A different approach to the problem from Purdue University.  Change spent electrolyte for renewed electrolyte.

https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2017/Q2/instantly-rechargeable-battery-could-change-the-future-of-electric-and-hybrid-automobiles.html

 Along those lines, what about carrying a load of charged electrolyte in the car to recharge with away from a station?
 It would weigh less than the batteries and take less room.  Then re-charge it all when you get home.

And as for Groovers idea, it would make about as much sense as having a big fan on a boat to blow against the sail.
Sasquatch Jim        Humanoid, sort of.

Online blackcat

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8854
  • Location: USA
I'm *shocked at the negative responses.  :shocked:





*not
1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline stonelover

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 206
  • Location: Berkeley County, WV
My '03 Prius has been happily rolling along while recharging itself as needed.  Yes, it takes an IC engine and regen braking to do this, but overall 48 mpg with easy fill ups is a good thing.

oldbike54

  • Guest
 No matter how hard some folks resist , at the current state of progress E vehicles will be the norm in 28 years . Why , because battery life doubles about every 7 years , so if we are at 100 miles now ...

 Dusty

Offline Lannis

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 26507
  • Location: Central Virginia
I'm *shocked at the negative responses.  :shocked:


*not

You mean the ones indicating that electric cars have been around for 120 years or so and still aren't practical for travel outside of cities?

And the ones about how we've been promised "Electric Cars In Five Years!!" for the past 50 years and it still hasn't happened?

Yeah, people are so weird like that.....  :grin:

Lannis
"Hard pounding, this, gentlemen; let's see who pounds the longest".

 

Quad Lock - The best GPS / phone mount system for your motorcycles, no damage to your cameras!!
Get a Wildguzzi discount of 10% off your order!
http://quadlock.refr.cc/luapmckeever
Advertise Here