Author Topic: Mayonnaise V11EV  (Read 748 times)

Offline n3303j

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Mayonnaise V11EV
« on: October 03, 2022, 10:16:39 PM »
So no matter what I do I get some water homogenized into the engine oil. The bike gets run on long highway hauls on hot days and I still find some mayo in the bottom of the pan. I'm assuming the practice of cycling oil vapor through the top frame tube is to blame. Season doesn't seem to matter. 400 miles down the highway on an 80 degree day doesn't eliminate it. No oil cooler or deep pan installed so the oil is as hot as it's going to get.

How can I make this contamination stop.

'98 V11EV running Spectro 20W50 Dino oil.
'98 MG V11 EV
'96 URAL SPORTSMAN
'77 MG 850T3 FB

Online John Croucher

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Re: Mayonnaise V11EV
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2022, 10:25:37 PM »
The moisture needs to be vented out with the crankcase pressure.

I would check the venting.

Offline n3303j

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Re: Mayonnaise V11EV
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2022, 10:31:42 PM »
I've blown 120# compressed air through the whole system last time the engine was out. The check valve at the crankcase discharge pipe is new so it's not sticking.
'98 MG V11 EV
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Offline Stevex

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Re: Mayonnaise V11EV
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2022, 01:25:23 PM »
Might be worth by passing the frame tube and fitting a catch bottle instead.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2022, 01:27:27 PM by Stevex »

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Re: Mayonnaise V11EV
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2022, 01:25:23 PM »

Offline Frenchfrog

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Re: Mayonnaise V11EV
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2022, 01:34:52 PM »
I really dislike frame tubes as breathers...I bet there's tons of nasty stuff in there.

Offline n3303j

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Re: Mayonnaise V11EV
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2022, 06:43:22 PM »
So I took a look at the system a few minutes ago and really not quite sure just why they went that route. Airbox sucks off the high point of top tube. Crankcase inputs just below. Rocker covers breathe off near the low point of the pipe.

There's a big line from a high crankcase vent with an "exhaust only" check valve in the circuit.

There are two small lines coming from the rocker covers to the frame cross brace tube. These connect to the crankcase through the oil drain holes in the heads cylinders and crankcase. Those lines should vary with crankcase pressure as there are no valves in the line.

Finally there is a small line high on the top tube that connects into the air box. It should be under suction at all times when the engine is running.

In a perfect world the crankcase would be at a varying negative pressure as the one way valve dumped whenever internal pressure hit atmospheric. But ring blow by and the venting through the rocker covers will all effect that. As will the vacuum from the air box.

Now my /2 BMW and Ural both have a timed disk that opens the crankcase to the atmosphere once each crank revolution. This vents to the atmosphere. Essentially they let the pistons bounce back & forth on crankcase pressure, but dump the pressure once each crank revolution. I assume this is to dump whatever gasses blow by the rings and start anew at atmospheric pressure bext cycle.

Now if I remember correctly the BMW R100 just has a one way valve and vented into the intake with a small drain hole enroute to dump condensed oil vapor back to the sump. So that would keep the crankcase at atmosphere or below (minus blowby) because of the one way valve.

So it would almost seem that I could  plug a rocker cover vent and the airbox line. Then I could put a vapor trap in the line from the crankcase and drain the vapor trap into the remaining rocker cover line. Finally the crankcase line would vent to the atmosphere to dump extra pressure created by ring blow by.

Or maybe just ignore the whole thing. I'm not an engineer. But I'd want my vapor trap being cooked by engine heat to eliminate moisture.

Frankly I don't understand why this mayo is an issue on my bike as it does get heated up. It is my choice for long rides. OTOH it did come with an oil temp gage and I never saw that go much above 100° C no matter how or when it was ridden.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2022, 07:10:07 PM by n3303j »
'98 MG V11 EV
'96 URAL SPORTSMAN
'77 MG 850T3 FB

Offline Stevex

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Re: Mayonnaise V11EV
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2022, 05:01:05 AM »
When I opened up the rocker covers on my LM2 I noticed mayo dripping into the heads from the breather pipes.
When I removed these breather pipes they were full of the stuff. I've not refitted them; instead, blanked off the rocker cover holes and the 2 inlets at the main breather box.
I did that about 8-9 years ago and I've never had a problem.

Offline n3303j

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Re: Mayonnaise V11EV
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2022, 08:43:28 AM »
Thought about that but the lines into the rocker covers are where the system dumps the condensed oil vapor back into the crank case. Block that path and the head tube fills up until the oil starts running back down the vent tube or into the airbox. Neither seem like good options.
'98 MG V11 EV
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Offline dguzzi

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Re: Mayonnaise V11EV
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2022, 03:56:23 PM »
 Finally the crankcase line would vent to the atmosphere to dump extra pressure created by ring blow by.

  That sounds right, but with a PCV type valve so it never sucks in.  (?)
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Offline mtwillyman

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Re: Mayonnaise V11EV
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2022, 05:16:17 PM »
My 2003 Stone does the same thing for the last 20 years. it's the only MC I've ever owned to do so, SMH.
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Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Mayonnaise V11EV
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2022, 05:18:34 AM »
So I took a look at the system a few minutes ago and really not quite sure just why they went that route. Airbox sucks off the high point of top tube. Crankcase inputs just below. Rocker covers breathe off near the low point of the pipe.

There's a big line from a high crankcase vent with an "exhaust only" check valve in the circuit.

There are two small lines coming from the rocker covers to the frame cross brace tube. These connect to the crankcase through the oil drain holes in the heads cylinders and crankcase. Those lines should vary with crankcase pressure as there are no valves in the line.

Finally there is a small line high on the top tube that connects into the air box. It should be under suction at all times when the engine is running.

In a perfect world the crankcase would be at a varying negative pressure as the one way valve dumped whenever internal pressure hit atmospheric. But ring blow by and the venting through the rocker covers will all effect that. As will the vacuum from the air box.

Now my /2 BMW and Ural both have a timed disk that opens the crankcase to the atmosphere once each crank revolution. This vents to the atmosphere. Essentially they let the pistons bounce back & forth on crankcase pressure, but dump the pressure once each crank revolution. I assume this is to dump whatever gasses blow by the rings and start anew at atmospheric pressure bext cycle.

Now if I remember correctly the BMW R100 just has a one way valve and vented into the intake with a small drain hole enroute to dump condensed oil vapor back to the sump. So that would keep the crankcase at atmosphere or below (minus blowby) because of the one way valve.

So it would almost seem that I could  plug a rocker cover vent and the airbox line. Then I could put a vapor trap in the line from the crankcase and drain the vapor trap into the remaining rocker cover line. Finally the crankcase line would vent to the atmosphere to dump extra pressure created by ring blow by.

Or maybe just ignore the whole thing. I'm not an engineer. But I'd want my vapor trap being cooked by engine heat to eliminate moisture.

Frankly I don't understand why this mayo is an issue on my bike as it does get heated up. It is my choice for long rides. OTOH it did come with an oil temp gage and I never saw that go much above 100° C no matter how or when it was ridden.
To the very best of my knowledge

You have it sussed, the only issue is the breathers/ oil return pipes with water trap built in by gravity.
True answer is return  pipes from frame piped directly to sump plug , a’ la V 1100 sport/Late Le Mans
Cali 1100 way is a bit how ‘s yer farver, works  for some, a little bit of condensation in the air, gentle throttle, breather/return pipes become water clogged, game over
Your idea should work
« Last Edit: October 06, 2022, 05:26:53 AM by jacksonracingcomau »

 

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