You want shoddy workmanship?

[73eldorado]

I’m not familiar with this engine but for the cam chain to be that trashed in 20K I would say it ran low on oil at one time in its life. I’ve seen this many times with other engines, did you guys inspect the top pin hole on the con rod? Usually that will show signs of lack of oil.

[Lannis]

Well Pete............. appears that naming names isn't on the agenda but I remember hearing of this  saying which should be considered in cases of such.
  All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good honest people to do nothing....

So I know that Pete (as a dealer and responsible person) doesn't want to get in legal trouble indulging in naming of names ...

.... but just for giggles, what if he had presented this as just a straight photo-documentation of work he was doing on a bike, without any negative commentary whatsoever?

Like

"Here, for your information as I have done with previous bikes, is how you work on an '09 Griso.   This bike was bought new at Silky Slim's Cycles, and was torn down and repaired in June last year by Shaved Ape Motorcycle Repair of Wallamalloo and returned to the owner.  It has not been ridden a significant number of miles since then."

"First, you remove the valve cover.   Note that if "Part A" is in two pieces as in this example, you must be careful about where the rest of it went.     Then remove the cambox, being careful that if any bolts are buggered up, you extract them using the proper tools ...."


Nobody would have a case against Pete for any sort of libel or slander.

Wouldn't matter much, because Pete's head would have exploded in the middle of trying to write it like that ....     

Lannis

[pete roper]

I�m not familiar with this engine but for the cam chain to be that trashed in 20K I would say it ran low on oil at one time in its life. I�ve seen this many times with other engines, did you guys inspect the top pin hole on the con rod? Usually that will show signs of lack of oil.

In this case it was simply the load. The chain was being asked to spin a seized cam, the load would of been astronomical. No way could lubrication be maintained to the pins too they wore, as did the plates.

Pete

[lucian]

It will be interesting to see if it's blown out the sump spacer gasket leaving it with low oil pressure. I've been thinking about replacing my original with the supposed new improved gasket. I'm all for preemptive fixes, especially after seeing this horror show.

[LowRyter]

[pete roper]

It will be interesting to see if it's blown out the sump spacer gasket leaving it with low oil pressure. I've been thinking about replacing my original with the supposed new improved gasket. I'm all for preemptive fixes, especially after seeing this horror show.

Nope, no oil pressure issues.

[lucian]

What's weird also is the flinger plate looks all scored under the center bolt hole. Looks like it was locked up while the cam sprocket was spinning, but isn't the plate on sprocket dowel?

[73eldorado]

Hi Peter, it makes sense with it being under high load to wear out the Chain. Is this a common problem with these engines?

[AH Fan]

So I know that Pete (as a dealer and responsible person) doesn't want to get in legal trouble indulging in naming of names ...

.... but just for giggles, what if he had presented this as just a straight photo-documentation of work he was doing on a bike, without any negative commentary whatsoever?

Like

"Here, for your information as I have done with previous bikes, is how you work on an '09 Griso.   This bike was bought new at Silky Slim's Cycles, and was torn down and repaired in June last year by Shaved Ape Motorcycle Repair of Wallamalloo and returned to the owner.  It has not been ridden a significant number of miles since then."

"First, you remove the valve cover.   Note that if "Part A" is in two pieces as in this example, you must be careful about where the rest of it went.     Then remove the cambox, being careful that if any bolts are buggered up, you extract them using the proper tools ...."


Nobody would have a case against Pete for any sort of libel or slander.

Wouldn't matter much, because Pete's head would have exploded in the middle of trying to write it like that ....     

Lannis

You are a funny man Lannis............. thx for attempting to soften things.
Apreciated

Ciao

[pete roper]

Hi Peter, it makes sense with it being under high load to wear out the Chain. Is this a common problem with these engines?

There are basically few 'Common' problems with the 8V CARC bikes apart from the huge elephant in the corner of the flat tappet fiasco.

A few of the pre '15 models had the problem with the spacer gasket blowing out and dumping pressure. They have dry swingarm bearings and shock linkage bearings and then some are afflicted by the 'StRtus Interuptis' issue. Other than that they seem to be as reliable as an anvil!

Pete

[73eldorado]

Thanks Pete 😄

[old as dirt 2]

looking at those pics and reading about this horrible situation makes me shake my head and say WTF.

I hate ANYONE who wants to cut corners not only in servicing and maintenance on vehicles but with anything. it just makes stuff break or can put someone's life in danger.

[LBC Tenni]

This is truly appalling. I hope justice finds these miserable pricks before they get someone killed.

[Lee Davis]

As with any facet in life, mechanics are fallible. Hell, they are generally the lower idiot levels, aren't they? I apologize for the entire class of idiot mechanics that are out there. Moto Guzzis are not exempt from the problems of the everyday realm. These guys just got it wrong.

[Kev m]

As with any facet in life, mechanics are fallible. Hell, they are generally the lower idiot levels, aren't they? I apologize for the entire class of idiot mechanics that are out there. Moto Guzzis are not exempt from the problems of the everyday realm. These guys just got it wrong.

Wait, ok, not sure of your level of sarcasm here...

...but ignoring that, you can't actually be apologizing for any level of intellectual challenge that results in just actually leaving bolts in place that aren't fully threaded, never mind tightened?!?

What am I missing?

[lucian]

As with any facet in life, mechanics are fallible. Hell, they are generally the lower idiot levels, aren't they? I apologize for the entire class of idiot mechanics that are out there. Moto Guzzis are not exempt from the problems of the everyday realm. These guys just got it wrong.

Well,  There are idiots and there are mechanics, but there is no such thing as an idiot mechanic. They are two separate groups. I can only think about a story my dad shared with me.
 He was a navy pilot in ww2 . He flew a Grumman hellcat f6f  off the carrier USS Swanee. He told me as a pilot he got many perks on the ship like a private bunk and steak dinners often. He then said he realized the reason for all this special treatment was because as a fighter pilot in the pacific  every nights sleep and meal would likely be his last. Most of his flight group never made it home from the war. I asked him once who he thought had the most important job on the ship. Without hesitation he answered "my mechanic". He said he used to order steak at dinner almost every night and bring it three decks down to him and thank him for keeping all his boys in the air. He said the first plane he flew had machine guns timed to shoot through the propeller and you really wanted your mechanic to be in a good frame of mind.  While stationed in Guam  the new f6f planes came with wing mounted guns, he said that was a happy day.
 Ever since that story I've had a great respect for mechanics of all types. I probably would not be here if it weren't for one.
 

[Lannis]

 He was a navy pilot in ww2 . He flew a Grumman hellcat f6f  off the carrier USS Swanee......

 He said the first plane he flew had machine guns timed to shoot through the propeller and you really wanted your mechanic to be in a good frame of mind.  While stationed in Guam  the new f6f planes came with wing mounted guns, he said that was a happy day.
 

His first planes were probably F4F Wildcats - they had two guns in the fuselage firing through the propellor and two guns in the wings.   Yep, you'd want to make sure your mechanic had the interrupter mechanism timed right, and if a little protein helped his judgment, well, it would be worth a few steaks ... !

Lannis

[Stevex]

Forgetting to do up a cam bolt is bad enough, but deliberately bodging an engine to hide damage...what if the owner had been killed because the engine seized up and threw him off?
Unfortunately it's true in most countries you have to go far and wide to find a competent bike mechanic and I'm thankful that my engineering background allows me to do virtually all my own 'mechanicing'.
Another nail in the coffin of the average bike mech's reputation.

[pete mcgee]

Well,  There are idiots and there are mechanics, but there is no such thing as an idiot mechanic. They are two separate groups. I can only think about a story my dad shared with me.
 He was a navy pilot in ww2 . He flew a Grumman hellcat f6f  off the carrier USS Swanee. He told me as a pilot he got many perks on the ship like a private bunk and steak dinners often. He then said he realized the reason for all this special treatment was because as a fighter pilot in the pacific  every nights sleep and meal would likely be his last. Most of his flight group never made it home from the war. I asked him once who he thought had the most important job on the ship. Without hesitation he answered "my mechanic". He said he used to order steak at dinner almost every night and bring it three decks down to him and thank him for keeping all his boys in the air. He said the first plane he flew had machine guns timed to shoot through the propeller and you really wanted your mechanic to be in a good frame of mind.  While stationed in Guam  the new f6f planes came with wing mounted guns, he said that was a happy day.
 Ever since that story I've had a great respect for mechanics of all types. I probably would not be here if it weren't for one.

There was an old saying us groundies used to pass on to stuck up young pilots in the Royal Australian Airforce, "Look after your ground crew, before your ground crew "looks after" you."
Most took the hint.

[73eldorado]

I’m not sure what the mechanic was thinking, this is a known issue with this engine. Why would you not tell the customer, present him with a quote to fix it. There was more money to be made doing that and the customer would at least have a choice as what to do. Makes me think he may have been a apprentice, or were there other in house problems between ownership or the service manager. It just makes no sense, I don’t get it.

[Chuck in Indiana]

It just makes no sense, I don�t get it.

Gotta agree. Strange indeed.

[dxhall]

All of us who live where there's winter have seen this kind of stuff.  It's tough to make it as a bike mechanic if you've got no work November through March.  The result is that no one (Pete Roper excepted) stays in the business long enough to learn the trade, or to care about repeat customers.

When I picked up the Centauro From Hell the seller told me that the threads were stripped in one of the oil cooler mount holes.  The local Guzzi dealer had told him it was no big deal to fix - just drill out the hole to the next size and tap it.  Guess you don't get Timecerts for the $90 / hour shop rate.

[Muzz]

I guess starting off with a '48 Matchless 350 gets one started on the "fix your own at the side of the road" pretty quickly.

Unless it is beyond me (and a man gotta know his limitations) this is why I prefer doing my own wrenching.

[Chesterfield]

His first planes were probably F4F Wildcats - they had two guns in the fuselage firing through the propellor and two guns in the wings.   Yep, you'd want to make sure your mechanic had the interrupter mechanism timed right, and if a little protein helped his judgment, well, it would be worth a few steaks ... !

Lannis

   
 Actually the guns are located in the wings

The F4F-4 was the first version produced in substantial numbers and made its inaugural flight on April 14, 1941. Along with the Sto-Wing, it had an increased fuel capacity of 117 gallons, a 27 gallons reserve tank, with provisions for 50 or 58 gallon drop tanks beneath the wing on hard points. It was powered by R-1830-86 Twin Wasp engine, driving a Curtiss Electric constant-speed propeller. Armament consisted of six 0.50 caliber machine guns in the wings with 240 rounds per gun (rpg).

[Lannis]

   
 Actually the guns are located in the wings

The F4F-4 was the first version produced in substantial numbers and made its inaugural flight on April 14, 1941. Along with the Sto-Wing, it had an increased fuel capacity of 117 gallons, a 27 gallons reserve tank, with provisions for 50 or 58 gallon drop tanks beneath the wing on hard points. It was powered by R-1830-86 Twin Wasp engine, driving a Curtiss Electric constant-speed propeller. Armament consisted of six 0.50 caliber machine guns in the wings with 240 rounds per gun (rpg).

You're right - it was only the very early "development" F4F that had two .30s firing through the propellor and two .50s in the wings.

Perhaps, then, he was flying the F3F in a training environment, learning the carrier business, although not many (or no) F3Fs were ever deployed in combat.

Just looking at the possibilities.

Lannis

[Darren Williams]

The thread title says "shoddy workmanship" which leads me to think poor attention to detail and carelessness. That is completely different than knowing there is a major issue and hiding it. I get the impression both are at work here. One is shameful while the other is criminal.

Sad indeed.