School me on what a cruiser is.

[Hymes Inc.]

So I hear so many people calling the V9 a cruiser, and giving it hate because it's labeled as such.  So if a V9 is a cruiser then what is considered a standard?  I was under the impression that motorcycles like my old Yamaha xj550 and my Moto Guzzi V65C were standard motorcycles. Other then the more forward foot position, what makes the V9 a cruiser?

Just for visual reference.






Sorry the pictures are different sizes, I'm crap with computers.
The V9 looks like a modern version of the V65 SP. The SP was not classified as a cruiser.  Move the pegs back and lower the handlebars and it's not far off from the V7.  I'm not trying to sell the V9 or make people change their minds, just trying to see where the dislike is coming from. I do like the V9, I don't like it's feet forward setup and if I was ever able to buy one I would have to find a way to move them back. Has the Standard label gone away? Seems that if you're not laying on the tank it's labeled a cruiser. Let the education commence.

[Buddy Shagmore]

Had the V9 been a standard, I might have bought one. I got a Triumph Street Twin instead. Now that's a great retro standard. If your toes are pointing up, you're on a cruiser. Feet foward is not conducive to good handling, plus you can't stand up on the pegs while crossing rr tracks and such. I think standards are making a comeback of sorts. It's all about the ergos...mid mounts and heads up riding position.

[derek533]

Cruiser:  Torture devices on which middle-aged men spend a gazillion dollars trying to see how much chrome or black they can fit onto one bike and then not ride said bike due to the fact their arse and tailbone can't take it with their feet so far forward.  Also, the height of the handlebars is inverse to the size of the man's manhood. 

Standard:  A real motorcycle 

Oh, and to me, the V9 is a standard all the way.  All of this is in good fun btw.  Don't get all bent out of shape cruiser owners. 

[ITSec]

To me, the V9 is on the edge of a cruiser and a standard. The footpegs are a bit too far forward, and the seat just a bit low, leaving the seating position just a little bit to far down/back and the legs too far out to be a pure standard. A good measure is to look at where the pegs are compared to the starter just above. The lowered seating position combines with this to put your weight on your tailbone, your feet out in front and your hands high compared to your shoulder position.

The Cali, both old and new, is a more clear example, as are many other classic Guzzis.

I like having my ankle almost straight below my hip, with my weight mostly on my pelvis, so my definition of a cruiser is anything that puts weight on my tailbone and spine 

[Kev m]

According to Buddy's own characterization the V9 is NOT a cruiser and I agree. I.e. your toes are not pointed up.

That's my personal definition.

To ME a cruiser prioritizes form over function in multiple categories like suspension travel/ride height/ground clearance, seat comfort, fuel capacity, instruments, etc. Because of the form over function choices is limited in performance and comfort and has most/all of the following characteristics:

* Laid back seating position. True forward controls (positioned at very front of the frame so your legs are basically straight and your toes are pointed upward. This means you're not sitting straight and down, but actually leaning back in most cases. Straight up and down, feet in front of you and still basically below your knees like a chair is a standard to me.

* Minimal seat, often no passenger accommodations over even less suitable passenger seat.

* Extreme low seat height, often the ability to walk over it from the back and just sit down. This seat height is usually the result of compromised cornering and suspension quality.

* Exaggerated tire sizes - often tall and skinny up front, fat and wide in the rear.

* Minimal instrumentation - not only one pod, but few functions.

* Minimal fuel capacity often in a highly stylized fuel tank.

A "Cruiser" to me is characterized by the Chopper, is meant for nothing but short runs up and down the boulevard. It's meant to look good to the fans of the type before it is meant to give any creature comfort or capability.

Now I recognize that most of my definition is subjective, and the person who rides sport bikes would be tempted to throw the V9, Cali (Tonti and 1400) and basically every Harley produced all in the Cruiser category.

And if the world is full of nothing but cruisers and sport bikes they're right.

But I see more subtle differences.

The huge difference in comfort and function between a Cali or Harley FLH (touring model) and a Softail, Wide-Glide, or even many modern Sportsters (that are lowered with forward controls) are the differences that I'm talking about.


A Goldwing, FLH, Cali are comfortable bikes capable of decent performance (all seen at that Street Skills track day i posted about recently). I can stand on the pegs/floorboards of all of them. They have decent ranges, they have more than enough clearance for street riding and out pace most rider's abilities even if they are more limited than the extreme bikes we call sports today.

The same is said for my mid-mount equipped Sportster.

To me those are all STANDARDS, the V9 included.

[bpreynolds]

Better thread title maybe???  "You might be a cruiser if..."

-You have a cup holder on your handlebar
-You are often seen rolling down the highway with a bandana rider in leather vest
-You are certainly a cruiser if you are often seen rolling down the highway with a bandana rider in leather vest and pillion wearing EXACTLY the same thing
-You have more chrome than a classic American automobile

...others?

[Cam3512]

I've ridden the V9 Roamer.  The pegs are NOT "forward" by most standards.  More forward than rearsets, of course.  Just a few inches more than the V7 - yes.  Take a look at the picture.  Not even close to the forward peg position of the Scout or Sportster.

[Kev m]

I've ridden the V9 Roamer.  The pegs are NOT "forward" by most standards.  More forward than rearsets, of course.  Just a few inches more than the V7 - yes.  Take a look at the picture.  Not even close to the forward peg position of the Scout or Sportster.

Remember the Sportster comes in 2 configurations.

1. The ONE you HAVE IN YOUR GARAGE RIGHT NOW has the Forward Controls.

2. The OTHER ONE that I HAVE IN MY GARAGE RIGHT NOW has the mid-mounts.

The Mid-Mounts are no different from the pegs on a Jackal, which I suspect are pretty similar to the peg position on a V9.

[Cam3512]

Remember the Sportster comes in 2 configurations.

1. The ONE you HAVE IN YOUR GARAGE RIGHT NOW has the Forward Controls.

2. The OTHER ONE that I HAVE IN MY GARAGE RIGHT NOW has the mid-mounts.

The Mid-Mounts are no different from the pegs on a Jackal, which I suspect are pretty similar to the peg position on a V9.

Just for the record the one in my garage is not mine, and is a temporary storage thing.  Good point, it's a MUCH different machine than yours.  Havn't ridden it yet, so that tells you something.

[Kev m]

Just for the record the one in my garage is not mine, and is a temporary storage thing.

YEAH, you keep telling people that... But I've seen no evidence.   

[Chuck in Indiana]

The V9 looks like a modern version of the V65 SP. The SP was not classified as a cruiser.

The picture you are calling a V65SP is not an SP at all. It's a V65C. (Cruiser)
My definition of cruiser is if my feet are in front of me, rather than properly under or behind.  The V9 is definitely a cruiser with the handling issues caused by the type. (Feet forward, high bars.)
Some people like em. <shrug>

[chuck peterson]

Guzzi said in their intro package the v9 is based directly on the v7 nevada smallblock

Nevada has the lower seat height,  16 inch wheel fatter rear, 18 skinny front, but the rear is so fat it almost comes to the diameter of the front...I'm using a v7 Nevada to overcome health issues and get on the road for an hour or two. Very easy to maneuver, just a tad twitchy out front compared to a 70-80s tonti, more of a 50-75 mph bike instead of a 65-90mph...but with the new v9 motor should be comparable to the grunt of the 80s tontis...seating position more on the tailbone then the butt/legs

I'm hoping they take the v9 motor and put it into a standard, dual sport, and stornello over the next few years...v9 is euro 4 (?) compliant, v7's aren't?

[wildebube]

To me, the V9 straddles the dividing line between cruisers and standards.  Maybe just a little to the cruiser side of things, but still actually somewhere in the middle.  The pegs are a perfect example.  As I said in another post, I found the pegs to be very oddly and uncomfortably positioned - too far forward for a standard, but not far enough forward for the feet-forward cruiser riding position.  The forwardish pegs, the low seat, the smallish tank, and the speedo tilt it toward the cruiser end of the spectrum even if it isn't all the way there. 

My personal opinion is that the seat necessitated the odd peg placement.  With the low seat height, moving the pegs back to a more "standard" position would have resulted in a really cramped leg position.  I would have liked the thing a lot lot more with a slightly higher seat and with the pegs a few inches further back.  But even then, I would still think it was somewhere between a cruiser and a standard.

[Kev m]

The V9 is definitely a cruiser with the handling issues caused by the type. (Feet forward, high bars.)

What handling issues are you talking about?

You don't get a defacto handling issue (not for anything remotely street riding) just because your feet aren't behind you or the handlebars aren't clip ons.

Trust me when I say this instructor had no problem outriding everyone on a Guzzi that day:

http://572creations.zenfolio.com/p944128457/e799ca53b

[bad Chad]

I'm sure he did, but as you and I have noted, a really good rider can do amazing things with pedestrian equipment.  Most of us are not "that good", so some like to take advantage of the added ease a standard or sport gives you when riding twists and such.

I think your off on your direct comparison of the peg position of the v9 to Jackal.  I had a Bassa, which I had the same peg set up, and those pegs were not as far forward as the v9.  The Bassa/Jackal has the pegs so the knee is bent just about 90 degrees, the v9s are at least a couple inches, maybe three more forward.  Enough so that is feels quite a bit different.

I liked the Roamer, but my knees wanted to start to splay when I relaxed my thighs, I didn't like that.

[oldbike54]

 Had a 20 something refer to the beater /5 as a cruiser ???? Previous owner of the Jackal calls it a sport cruiser . Dunno , maybe I should buy a full face that mimics a doo rag and start drinking PBR .

 Dusty

[bpreynolds]

Had a 20 something refer to the beater /5 as a cruiser ???? Previous owner of the Jackal calls it a sport cruiser . Dunno , maybe I should buy a full face that mimics a doo rag and start drinking PBR .

 Dusty

You might be a hipster if...you're wearing a full face that mimics a doo rag and drinking PBR

[Sasquatch Jim]

 A cruiser isn't a machine.  It is a guy who wears his motorcycle as butt jewelry.

[oldbike54]

You might be a hipster if...you're wearing a full face that mimics a doo rag and drinking PBR

 

                                                       Hipster .

 Well shoot , was kinda hoping no one would expose ... wait , Bipper , don't you own some skinny jeans ? 

 Dusty

[Shorty]

I think they call it a cruiser because of the bikes it is designed to compete with. Namely, Sportster, or bikes that copy Sportster. Yes, some Sportys have mid mounts. But, at least around here, the vast majority of them are the Custom model, with forward controls. You know. Cruisers. Maybe they need to call it a cruiser in an attempt to gain new customers.

[mjptexas]

A cruiser isn't a machine.  It is a guy who wears his motorcycle as butt jewelry.

 :1:

[bpreynolds]

                                                       Hipster .

 Well shoot , was kinda hoping no one would expose ... wait , Bipper , don't you own some skinny jeans ? 

 Dusty

Not as skinny as they used to be 

[Kev m]

I'm sure he did, but as you and I have noted, a really good rider can do amazing things with pedestrian equipment.  Most of us are not "that good", so some like to take advantage of the added ease a standard or sport gives you when riding twists and such.

I think your off on your direct comparison of the peg position of the v9 to Jackal.  I had a Bassa, which I had the same peg set up, and those pegs were not as far forward as the v9.  The Bassa/Jackal has the pegs so the knee is bent just about 90 degrees, the v9s are at least a couple inches, maybe three more forward.  Enough so that is feels quite a bit different.

I liked the Roamer, but my knees wanted to start to splay when I relaxed my thighs, I didn't like that.

The point is and remains how much more capable the average MACHINE is than the average rider. The Sport Tourer or Sport Bike doesn't make the rider any better. And unless the machine is ridiculously lowered (see my cruiser definition) then the average rider isn't going to scrape anything on a Goldwing, RK, Sportster, V9, Jackal etc.

I can't say for sure on the Jackal vs. V9 peg position yet until I actually get to sit on one, but judging from the pictures, peg placement with regards to seat etc., it sure looks pretty damn close, which puts it in my Sportster territory. Maybe that feels weird to some used to rearsets the first time (just like rearsets feel weird to me) but it's hardly a big change.

[rocker59]

I think they call it a cruiser because of the bikes it is designed to compete with. Namely, Sportster, or bikes that copy Sportster. Yes, some Sportys have mid mounts. But, at least around here, the vast majority of them are the Custom model, with forward controls. You know. Cruisers. Maybe they need to call it a cruiser in an attempt to gain new customers.

And all my life, I thought Sportsters were the original American Standard Motorcycle.

[Moto]

People call anything a cruiser if they think it's not sporty enough for them. Nothing else matters. Some called the Griso a cruiser when it came out!

The market now has only two types in the minds of the masses. Sport bikes and cruisers. You just put any given model on a scale that has each type at either end, and make up your own mind where to draw the line separating them.

CRUISER ------------------------------<YOUR BIKE HERE>-----------------------------SPORTBIKE

Why worry about it?

[Kev m]

And all my life, I thought Sportsters were the original American Standard Motorcycle.

They were, and some still are, but in Shorty's defense, a lot of them have morphed into cruisers - the 1200C variants are mostly that, and 48, and maybe even the short lived 1200V are arguably cruisers too...

[Kev m]

People call anything a cruiser if they think it's not sporty enough for them. Nothing else matters. Some called the Griso a cruiser when it came out!

The market now has only two types in the minds of the masses. Sport bikes and cruisers. You just put any given model on a scale that has each type at either end, and make up your own mind where to draw the line separating them.

CRUISER ------------------------------<YOUR BIKE HERE>-----------------------------SPORTBIKE

Why worry about it?

That's a REALLY good point and I'm probably doing it too...

[JJ]

The V9 Roamer is NOT a cruiser...IMHO.  This...on the other hand...is an 871 pound cruiser!  :1:

Moby Dick - aka, The Great White Whale! (lol)

[ITSec]

The V9 Roamer is NOT a cruiser...IMHO.  This...on the other hand...is an 871 pound cruiser!  :1:

Moby Dick - aka, The Great White Whale! (lol)

That's not a cruiser - it's a Minnesota pleasure yacht!

[Red Dog]

The V9 Roamer is NOT a cruiser...IMHO.  This...on the other hand...is an 871 pound cruiser!  :1:

Moby Dick - aka, The Great White Whale! (lol)

How do ya like the way that whale handles?

I love messing with sport bikes on my '13 Cross Country Tour!