‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project

[shiskowd]

Maybe the later bikes are different but normally there are heavy Bakelite washers and a thin washer under the fastener heads to minimise direct heat transfer from the cylinder head to the intake/inlet manifolds.
I used two gaskets also... fwiw.

I am hesitant to post a picture in someone elses build thread but something like this, they normally have a thin steel washer but I machined new ones out of brass.

Good catch Les... Guzziology suggests 2 gaskets under each intake manifold even though the 850-T parts manual only shows a single gasket.  MGC also suggests 2 gaskets.

On the washers under the screws, I should install the insulated washers (MGC again) to minimize heat transfer.  Interesting the parts manual doesn't show these.

LesP - you can post any pictures you wish on my thread...!  I like the brass washers 

[Testarossa]

My bad. I read the question quickly and got the idea he was asking about the vacuum port screws on the sides of the manifolds.

[shiskowd]

Big milestone today - first engine start!

Not wanting to install the fuel tank I rigged up a small fuel can with some tygon fuel line at similar elevation (head) as a full tank of fuel.



Set two floor drying blowers to direct air on each cylinder to keep things cool once up to operating temperature.



Kevin Cameron, long time technical editor of Cycle World magazine, states that if you have compression, timing, ignition and fuel, an engine has no choice but to start.  Hopefully that will hold here...

Compression - performed cold compression test - 135 psi per side which would suggest the cam timing to be correct.
Timing - see above
Ignition - I adjusted the distributor when I had the engine on the bench with the flywheel exposed.  I confirmed the timing with a timing light on each side while turning the engine with the starter. I also confirmed the coils were jumping an arc across each plug.
Fuel - Carbs were ultrasonicly cleaned, all passages confirmed with compressed air, all new brass & other pieces including chokes - all jetting stock.  Idle screws set to 10.5mm per Guzziology and closely sync'd with throttle cable pull (will need a proper carb sync when my CarbTune device arrives from the UK).

Here's the video I put together of the first turn over and start

https://youtu.be/5J5fWm9cqtY Turn up your speakers for that awesome guzzi v-twin sound.

Really was quite uneventful which is what I was hoping for .  Ran then engine for about 45 minutes for a good heat cycle, only ran it to about 3,000 RPM, not enough to see the advanced timing mark on the flywheel.  Surprised how close the ignition timing was - I may need adjust slightly when I get the idle more stable with a proper carb sync.  The fans seemed to do a good job keeping things cool.  The new alternator setup was putting out just over 14V at the various RPM's I ran the engine.

Drained the oil while it was hot, ran a magnet up and down the oil pan through the drain hole (no oil filter here - still wonder about that...).  I'll re-torque the heads and set the valve clearance later this week and give it another heat cycle.

Great day amidst all the challenges we're facing - be safe everyone.

[Dave Swanson]

That's great!  Sounds like it will be a smooth sail!

[Canuck750]

 

[shiskowd]

Installed the swing arm and ran the engine again for about 40 minutes today.



I sync'd the carbs with my Carbtune that recently arrived.  Nice piece of kit and works very well.  I've used various home made versions in the past that worked well, this one you simple put back in the pouch and throw it in the toolbox.  Picture below is at a consistent idle at 1,260 RPM which is a bit too high now that I've re-read Guzziology.  The old tachometer seems to be accurate against the cheapo digital unit I use for setting idle on my tach-less dual sports.



Next task is wiring up the bike.  I'm making my own wiring harness that suits the Motogaget M Unit which requires a completely different approach due to the input/output nature of the device.  Created a new wiring diagram in guide the work and lessen the chances of mistakes.



I'm retaining the stock headlight shell that works well for a junction box with all wires feeding through the Molex connectors to the handlebar switches.  The 15, 12, and 3 pin 0.093" Molex connectors that you can buy today are dimensionally the same as those installed 45 years earlier.



Starting to take shape...

[Canuck750]

Nice looking mufflers, what is the make?

Bike looks great, your getting real close.

[shiskowd]

Nice looking mufflers, what is the make?

Thanks Jim.  I have no idea about the mufflers, there is absolutely no markings on them anywhere.  They're in good structural condition (no rust, dents, broken brackets) but the chrome is discolored on the right muffler from something that may have slipped on them over the years in storage.  I don't think there was much road time on them.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Thanks Jim.  I have no idea about the mufflers, there is absolutely no markings on them anywhere.  They're in good structural condition (no rust, dents, broken brackets) but the chrome is discolored on the right muffler from something that may have slipped on them over the years in storage.  I don't think there was much road time on them.

They look like the same Emgo "long reverse cone megaphone" mufflers I've put on a few bikes.
https://www.amazon.com/Chrome-Megaphone-Muffler-Prime-80-84034/dp/B000GU25XE

Decent muffler for the price, care needs to be taken with the "channel" where the mounting bracket attaches or it can fracture.

[shiskowd]

Thanks Charlie -that's exactly what I have.  I can see why the channel may be problematic over time.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Thanks Charlie -that's exactly what I have.  I can see why the channel may be problematic over time.

The supplied nuts only contact the channel in small spots and vibration can cause it to fracture around them. I made one long strip of steel that fits into the channel tight, with a holes drilled and tapped into it. Spreads out the stress so it doesn't crack.

[shiskowd]

The supplied nuts only contact the channel in small spots and vibration can cause it to fracture around them. I made one long strip of steel that fits into the channel tight, with a holes drilled and tapped into it. Spreads out the stress so it doesn't crack.

Great suggestion, I'll add that to the 'list'!

[radguzzi]

This is looking and sounding so good shiskowd, just good work.

Best,
Rob

     ============================


Charlie,
Glad you chimed in on identifying the canisters, I need a replacement set for the 'Vert and I these will do nicely.

Thanks,
Rob

[shiskowd]

Work on the wiring harness continues.  All 'input' and 'output' wiring is color coded to make for easy construct and troubleshooting somewhere down the road if needed.






To take advantage of the M Units capabilities, momentary handle bar switches are preferred but the unit can be setup to use standard bar switches.  The Motogadet momentary bar switches are high quality but the miniature size is a challenge to put together.  One side of all the 'input' switches are grounded requiring fewer 22 gauge wires back to the central unit.



3 momentary switches on the left bar, top one is for the horn.  2 switches on the right side, bottom one does double duty for the starter and kill switch, top one for light control (on/off, high/low beam).



M Unit and wiring terminations, top row is the outputs (18 gauge), bottom is the 22 gauge inputs.  Only a single 30A fuse is required for the +12V feed to the unit, all circuit protection is integral to the M Unit.



Getting close.  Ran the engine through another heat cycle to test the final wiring.  All that is remaining is some work on the front brake (new fluid, caliper alignment), fender install, new grips with heaters and the tank/toolbox installation when the paint work is completed.  Also waiting for a VIN number assignment so I can register the bike in Alberta.

[Brilig]

Your bike is looking absolutely beautiful. 

In one of your earlier posts you brought up the issue of measuring the cam bearing diameters and what could be done if they were out of spec.  Did you ever find an answer?  I am rebuilding my 79 SP 1000 and I have some light scoring on the front cam bearing surface.  Otherwise all bearing surfaces are good.  At 41,000mi the sludge trap had almost nothing in it.
I am also curious about vapor honing.  I've seen on several peoples threads where the cam bearing surface was vapor honed along with the rest of the engine case and I've wondered if that is a wise thing to do or does it do no harm?

Thanks for all the great pictures.  Your thread is providing us all with valuable information.

Mark

[Canuck750]

The bike looks fantastic, super clean electrical work

with respect to vapour honing (vapour blasting) the process will not damage any bearing surfaces, it only removes the oxidation from the casting. It will remove paint but it takes a very long time to get paint off with this process, much better to use chemical stripper or soda blasting to get paint off. Vapour blasting will not damage plastic parts or brass. I find it will dull stainless steel but it hardly dulls good chrome at all. Cleans rust off carbon steel pretty quickly. Vapour honing cleans up brass or plated electrical contacts very quickly, works great of fuse blocks, electrical switches, etc....

[shiskowd]

Mark, pleased my journey is helping others with theirs.  Jim answered your question about vapor honing/blasting the engine cases.

Regarding the cam bearing measurements, I concluded the following in the absence of having the right tools to measure this.  The fitting clearance for both ends of the cam journals and the case housing is 0.025-0.066mm.  The thinnest feeler gauge that I have measures 0.04mm.  After I thoroughly cleaned up the journals and house with brake cleaner to remove any oil film I could not get the feeler gauge between cam journal and the housing.   Not perfect way to measure as the total clearance would only be measurable for a few degrees along the radius, much narrower that my feeler gauge.  To me it provided some degree of comfort I didn't have excessive clearance.  There was only a slight up/down movement with the bearings dry.  When I applied the assembly lube there was no appreciable movement due to the oil film which is exactly the lubes purpose.

You'd have a oil filter in you SP, my 850T doesn't and my sludge trap was 1/3 full with similar mileage as your bike.  I was comfortable buttoning it up as it was.  Plus, what could one do to remedy excessive clearance??  The aluminum housing would wear more than the iron camshaft.  Is there a fix other than replacing the engine case?!

[shiskowd]

The bike looks fantastic, super clean electrical work

Thanks Jim.  Just waiting for Craig to finish up with the tank and tool boxes and one last order for MGC for a rear brake switch and intake manifold gaskets.  I already have the new VIN number - that was painless if not inexpensive.  I need to do some more work on the headlight housing.  The shell is slightly out of round compared to the chrome ring that holds the lamp.  The previous owner had used construction adhesive to hold it together - that took a couple evenings to clean out!

[1down5up]

Plus, what could one do to remedy excessive clearance??  The aluminum housing would wear more than the iron camshaft.  Is there a fix other than replacing the engine case?!

Line bore and new collects that are reamed to size. Prob brass or a bearing alloy

[shiskowd]

I haven't posted for some time, waiting for the last bits to arrive to finish what I planned this 'winter'.  Progress these last weeks:

• New waffle grips installed on top of Heat Demon grip heaters
• Installed additional intake manifold gaskets and insulating washers
• Replaced brake fluid and shimmed from brake caliper.  The PO 20 years earlier had bought a new Brembo master cylinder (it's 12 or 13mm, not sure which) and newer style front caliper.  There are 0 miles on the caliper, pads are brand new.
• Messed around with the headlight shell - it wasn't entirely round causing some fitment issues with the chrome ring and other pieces.  There's 2x as many parts to this stock headlight as there needs to be...
• Craig at Bentley's finished my tank and toolboxes.  He did an incredible job considering how messed up the tank was underneath the old paint a layers of body filler.  I had no idea how bad the tank was.  He took a bunch of pictures, one below.
• Installed the toolboxes and test fit the fuel tank.

Now that I turned the toolboxes around...






All that is left is to pick up a few barrel washers to fasten the tank badges more securely, install the mirrors when the adapters arrive (the Brembo MC and clutch lever have left hand mirror threads - go figure) and get the required out of province vehicle inspection complete so I can register a plate.

[Canuck750]

The bike looks fantastic

Craig has done another outstanding paint job (hopefully he can get my Laverda parts done now ), and your workmanship has transformed a worn out lump into a beauty!

Looking forward to your 1st ride report

[jdgretz]

That is pretty.  Very nice work.  Going to be fun being on the road on that beauty.

jdg

[JukeboxGothic]

Great job. I have a T as well. Sorry to bring it up but is there a reason you have the tool boxes on the wrong sides?

[Dave Swanson]

Its a shame so many Ts are customized these days, because as we can see here, a well restored one is a thing of beauty.  What a marvelous job!

Tell me,  did you buy a new rear fender, or did you polish the old one.  If you polished it, how did you go about it?   

[shiskowd]

Great job. I have a T as well. Sorry to bring it up but is there a reason you have the tool boxes on the wrong sides?

Sigh....    sometimes my rookie'ness oozes out in all directions...  Thanks for explaining why the fit seemed a bit odd!

[shiskowd]

The bike looks fantastic

Craig has done another outstanding paint job (hopefully he can get my Laverda parts done now ), and your workmanship has transformed a worn out lump into a beauty!

Looking forward to your 1st ride report

Thanks Jim.  He mentioned you had some work in progress.  Craig is a character but he certainly is passionate about his work.  I like to bring some camera flash gear and photograph parts of his 'museum'.  The old barn has some unique pieces.

[shiskowd]

Its a shame so many Ts are customized these days, because as we can see here, a well restored one is a thing of beauty.  What a marvelous job!

Tell me,  did you buy a new rear fender, or did you polish the old one.  If you polished it, how did you go about it?

Thanks Dave.  I didn't replace the fender but it's not the original.  I found a receipt that suggests a used fender was purchased by the PO in 1998.  The bike sat dormant shortly after until now so it didn't get much use on this bike.  Once I clean 20 years of shop grime off it polished up very well with light cleaning wax.  I buffed up a few areas with a polishing wheel and red rouge polish.  I believe there is better polish for stainless steel you may want to try that should give a good result.

[Canuck750]

Craig is a character but he certainly is passionate about his work. 

Yep on both counts!

[LesP]

Outstanding 

[Klinkhammer]

Very nice.
Im desperatly trying not to do a complete nut and bolt resto on my V7 Sport.
Watching all the excellent work on this board makes it increasingly difficult.