Author Topic: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project  (Read 27134 times)

Offline Testarossa

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #90 on: January 03, 2020, 01:13:36 PM »
You probably have this under control but when I did the last rebuild I had a spare gearbox and thus two speedometer drives. I stupidly put one in the tachometer drive socket (the drives are identical except for the pitch of the gear teeth) and then wondered why the tach didn't work.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 03:32:50 PM by Testarossa »
70 Triumph TR6R, 74 850T, 74 Yamaha TA125, 89 Mille GT, 99 F650, 2013 Yamaha XT250
Gone: 59 Piper Comanche 250, 69 Harley/Aermacchi 350SS, 71 Honda CB500/4, 74 Laverda 750 SF2, 91 Suzuki VX800, 50cc two-stroke scoot, 83 XR350R

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #91 on: January 03, 2020, 03:44:22 PM »
You probably have this under control but when I did the last rebuild I had a spare gearbox and thus two speedometer drives. I stupidly put one in the speedometer drive socket (the drives are identical except for the pitch of the gear teeth) and then wondered why the speedometer didn't work.

I think you meant to write "tachometer" somewhere in there, no?
Charlie

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #92 on: January 04, 2020, 10:03:18 AM »
I have a baggie full of those washers. I can send you one (or more) if necessary.

Charlie - I'll take you up on your offer! PM sent.
'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Testarossa

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #93 on: January 04, 2020, 03:33:23 PM »
Quote
I think you meant to write "tachometer" somewhere in there, no?

Correct, Charlie. I fixed it.
70 Triumph TR6R, 74 850T, 74 Yamaha TA125, 89 Mille GT, 99 F650, 2013 Yamaha XT250
Gone: 59 Piper Comanche 250, 69 Harley/Aermacchi 350SS, 71 Honda CB500/4, 74 Laverda 750 SF2, 91 Suzuki VX800, 50cc two-stroke scoot, 83 XR350R

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #93 on: January 04, 2020, 03:33:23 PM »

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #94 on: February 15, 2020, 06:22:36 PM »
It's been a long month waiting for parts, some miserable cold weather that kept my garage too cool and lots of travel for work.  Don @ Universal Cycle got around to my heads (new valves, guides, springs) all to spec.  Valves were worn beyond salvaging, seats needed the normal lapping - looking good.



With the new drive shaft and coupler I was able to finish assembling the rear drive to the swing arm.  Liberally coated the splines with Wurth SIG3000 grease prior to assembly.  Installed the axle to align the the rear drive prior to torquing down the 4 nuts fastening the two pieces together.



Installed the flywheel that Jim (canuck750) graciously donated.  I'll need to index the timing marks once I confirm TDC for both cylinders.



All the bits for one cylinder in a Gilardoni kit.  Glad I purchased when I did as it seems these are now difficult to find.



I had purchased a piston wrist pin press tool thinking that these would fit snug enough that I'd need to heat the piston and press in the wrist pin.  Instructions with the kit indicate that the 'union is floating' and doesn't require any force.  It didn't, slid in nice and easy.



Read the instructions thoroughly "make sure the arrow on the piston is pointing to the exhaust side of the head' - yup I got that.  Only I didn't... :violent1: I also forgot about the o-rings on the cylinder studs at 6 & 12 o'clock.  I opened Pete Ropers engine assembly guide at this point to ensure no more screw ups.



New wave washers for all 6 studs (need a smaller one for the 12 o'clock hidden hex nut) and o-rings under the rocker arm carriers.  Torqued in a 3-step cross pattern to 29 ft-lbs that the Gilardoni instructions indicated. Guzziology suggests letting the assembly sit over night and re-torque to let the gaskets fully compress as to lessen the valve clearance moves during the first few hundred km's.



One side almost done.

'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #95 on: February 15, 2020, 08:47:27 PM »
Looking good. I retorque quite a few times in the "first hundred kms". Like after the first start up and tuning, retorque. Five heat/cool cycles, retorque. 500 miles, retorque, 1000 more miles, retorque. They're usually good to go then.  :wink:
Charlie

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #96 on: February 15, 2020, 11:45:19 PM »
Thanks Charlie for your continued assistance. Assuming one needs to check valve clearance after each re-torque?

I got your speedo washers a few weeks ago, much appreciated!
'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Canuck750

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #97 on: February 16, 2020, 09:36:13 AM »
Looking really good :thumb:
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #98 on: February 16, 2020, 10:23:49 AM »
Thanks Charlie for your continued assistance. Assuming one needs to check valve clearance after each re-torque?

I got your speedo washers a few weeks ago, much appreciated!

Yes, check/adjust valve clearance after each retorque.
Charlie

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #99 on: February 17, 2020, 01:05:51 PM »
When I dissembled the heads there was a noticeable amount of small rubber bits in the rocker carrier and rocker pine, presumably from the original cam chain tensioner block.  Ran a small wire brush and air through the oil ports in each head and the rocker arm pin to ensure I got it all.





With both heads on I wanted to check the TDC markings on the new flywheel donated from a V7.  I built a piston stop from an old sparkplug with the porcelain core and copper removed, ran a M8x1.25 tap through it so I could thread in a bolt that would reach the top of the piston a short distance from TDC.



A Motion Pro degree wheel fits almost exactly inside the flywheel ridge next to the clutch splines. I held it in place with a few rare earth magnets that stuck to the M12 bolt that threads into the crank that came with the rear seal installation tool I purchased from MGC.  Used the flywheel positioning tool and some clear plastic to make an makeshift indicator.



The indicated TDC was very close to what I was able to deduce with the piston stop and degree wheel, maybe a half degree out at the most.  I used the degree wheel to mark the new timing marks (different on the V7 this flywheel came from) and check against the 2mm per degree method.  Purchased the appropriate nail polish from a local drug store (ensuring I explained to the cashier what I was using it for...) and used the polish to fill in new grooves made with a small file.



With the timing marks fresh I took opportunity to statically set the Dyna III ignition which was never installed on this bike.  Much easier with the engine on the bench, just took a series of alligator jumpers, battery w/ fuse to get the Dyna functioningon one coil.  The Dyna setup instructions were thorough, even the advance timing mark was spot on the mechanical advance stop.  Should be close enough to get the engine spinning to use a timing light.

'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Canuck750

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #100 on: February 21, 2020, 09:40:25 AM »
great detail work, looking forward to the start up report!
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #101 on: February 22, 2020, 11:02:28 PM »
Found some time today to complete the engine.  Re-torqued the heads, adjusted the valves, installed the valve covers and the timing cover.  New steel braided oil feed lines to the heads.



I looked at different alternator options, wanting sufficient wattage to run heated grips and a jacket liner (this, the land of 10 months of near winter).  I settled on the EnDuraLast 450 watt kit for the higher amperage it generates but also for the brush-less permanent magnet rotor and combination rectifier/regulator.  Pricey but the hardware is top shelf quality.







'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2020, 11:29:13 PM »
On to the clutch.  I installed new springs using Peter Roper's trick to get them to sit in the flywheel (use pliers to slightly bend the tail of the spring to grip the cylinder groove in the flywheel) - no gluing necessary.



The clutch alignment tool by MGC made easy work to both compress and align the SD-TEC deep spline clutch plates.





New 8mm bolts, schnoor washers fasten the ring gear.



Transmission slipped easily into place once the splines matched the input shaft.



This concludes the engine/transmission assembly!  Moved to my hydraulic dirt bike lift - great to move around and a raise to whatever working height needed to ready it to fasten to the frame.

'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Scout63

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #103 on: February 27, 2020, 06:37:38 AM »
Gorgeous work. Thanks for posting - this will be very helpful to me in the coming weeks.
Ben Zehnder - Orleans, MA USA

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #104 on: March 01, 2020, 07:51:05 PM »
Not much progress this week.  Constructed an ad hoc engine stand by screwing together 10" pieces of 2x4".  That made installation of the engine frame rails and the center stand easy enough.  The powder coated pieces, new stainless steel bolts/washers/nuts and some fresh grease made for smooth center stand operation.







Looks much better than when I tore it all apart last August!



'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Canuck750

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #105 on: March 02, 2020, 10:29:33 AM »
Nice resurrection  :thumb:
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #106 on: March 08, 2020, 02:45:49 PM »
Installed the frame tag today with fresh rivets and some black silicone adhesive on the backing.



Installed the triple clamps with new bearings, forks slid in easily after I removed powder coating over spray.  I left the old pinch bolts in the pieces when I sent them off to the powder coater - made for easy cleanup.



On the truing stand, the wheels required only a single balancing weight to balance out.



I've used these brass weights for years on a variety of bikes, I've never had one come off.  Just use a little dab of thread locker on the retaining screw.  Easily found on Ebay.



With the front wheel on the bike can rest on the center stand.



« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 03:18:43 PM by shiskowd »
'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Testarossa

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #107 on: March 08, 2020, 02:56:02 PM »
Gorgeous work. Well done!
70 Triumph TR6R, 74 850T, 74 Yamaha TA125, 89 Mille GT, 99 F650, 2013 Yamaha XT250
Gone: 59 Piper Comanche 250, 69 Harley/Aermacchi 350SS, 71 Honda CB500/4, 74 Laverda 750 SF2, 91 Suzuki VX800, 50cc two-stroke scoot, 83 XR350R

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #108 on: March 08, 2020, 03:17:56 PM »
Early in this rebuild I was scratching my head as to where to place the ignition coils.  I have a pair of Dyna coils that, like most for these old Guzzi's, are large and require a custom mounting.  I ground off the old coil brackets prior to powder coating knowing they'd never work for the Dyna's and didn't arrive at a solution where to mount then as I had the bike completely dissembled.  Now with the engine in the frame I needed to sort this out.  I also needed to find a location for the Ducati rectifier/voltage regulator and the Dyna III ignition module.

I wanted the coils tucked under the tank to clean up the space between the toolboxes and air cleaners.  There's lots of room under the top rail of the frame, just needed a way to hang them there.  The Dyna's ( 3 ohm) are known to run warm and prone to fail if the heat they generate isn't managed.  During my ignition static timing earlier in this thread I noticed the coil getting quite warm.  So, the hanger needed some thermal mass to assist.

Starting with a piece of aluminum 1/2" x 1 1/2" bar stock I improvised fashioning a bracket, not having milling machine or the knowledge to run such a machine.



The result didn't turn out too bad, LesP would have made a much more elegant piece with his skills...  The coils mount solid against the aluminum bar and of significant mass that should aide in dissipating the heat the coils generate.



With the Ducati regulator mounted just under the steering stem there is sufficient room for my Dyna bracket to tuck in ahead of the breather can thing.  Note the location of the Dyna III ignition, just below the regulator.  There should be sufficient airflow to keep all these electrical systems cool as long as the bike is moving. :undecided:





Quick check to see if there is enough clearance with the tank installed.  Lots of room above the top tube, there isn't much room on the sides of the tank and the lower upper tubes.



Now to build a bracket to fasten the voltage regulator and build a wiring harness. 
'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Rick4003

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #109 on: March 09, 2020, 04:27:18 AM »
Very nice work on the coil brackets. That should be able to do the job fine. And the rest looks great too! :)
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
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Offline Dave Swanson

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #110 on: March 14, 2020, 02:24:56 PM »
Very nice!  I may be copying this one day!

Dave Swanson - Northern IL
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Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #111 on: March 15, 2020, 09:08:33 PM »
This weekends tasks included wiring up the ignition & coils, fixing the voltage regulator to the frame with an aluminum bracket I hacked up and installing the new $59 USD starter I bought off ebay.  I'm rebuilding the old Bosch starter but thought I'd give this a try to save some time and have a backup.  Fits great but you need to grind down one of the bolt heads for the transmission neutral switch mount.

I purchased an Odyssey 925 battery per the suggestion on some threads and test fit one of the carbs with the velocity stack and K&N filter.  Positioning the battery to the back of the battery tray leaves lots of room for the air filters.



I didn't want the mammoth battery sliding around so I fasted some aluminum angles as stays.



Couple of lengths of truck mud flap to rest the battery on with a nylon battery strap from an RV shop.



The battery is slightly off center to give a more room for the battery terminals - still will be a little tight but there's no other way to fit the battery.

'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Canuck750

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #112 on: March 16, 2020, 08:25:35 AM »
Very clean fabrications! Looking great.
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #113 on: March 21, 2020, 07:08:42 PM »
Seems I'll have lots of time on my hands these days...

I replaced most all the brass in the carb's.  The jet sizes were completely illegible so I wasn't sure what size the pilot and main jets were.  Replaced those, mixture screws, needle, float needle and the choke assemblies.  The floats look like they may have been replaced at least once so I re-used those.  Greg Benders VHB carburetor rebuild is an excellen guide.



I have the motor far enough along that I intent to start it prior to assembling any more of the chassis.  Still waiting for some for fuel line and a timing light for the full engine test but wired up some switches and indicator LED's with a 10 amp fused circuit off the battery.



The $59 starter spun the engine smartly.  The first few revelations were slower due to the heavy assembly lube and the 10C temp in my workshop but as soon as the synthetic oil circulated enough the starter spun it noticeably faster, enough to trip the new oil pressure switch, confirming the new oil pump was doing it's job.  I was curious as to the engine compression without any break-in time.  About 135 psi with no carburetors installed.  I tested ~90 psi before I started the rebuild adventure.



Powered up the ignition and confirmed my wiring was in order with the engine cranking - yes there was light, er, sparks!



Before installing the carburetors, ensure you have the slightly longer intake manifold on the right cylinder head...  :violent1: that burned up some time...  The K&N filters clash into each other slightly even with the filters slipped well over the stacks.




'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

Offline Testarossa

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #114 on: March 24, 2020, 02:08:55 PM »
Are you running the solenoid straight from the switch, or do you have a starter relay in the circuit? Not a big deal for testing but when the starter button is wired in you'll need a relay to protect it.
70 Triumph TR6R, 74 850T, 74 Yamaha TA125, 89 Mille GT, 99 F650, 2013 Yamaha XT250
Gone: 59 Piper Comanche 250, 69 Harley/Aermacchi 350SS, 71 Honda CB500/4, 74 Laverda 750 SF2, 91 Suzuki VX800, 50cc two-stroke scoot, 83 XR350R

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #115 on: March 24, 2020, 04:06:45 PM »
Coming along nicely.  :thumb: :thumb:

What is under the intake manifold 8 mm capscrews ?

Offline Testarossa

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #116 on: March 24, 2020, 05:47:19 PM »
Quote
8mm cap screws?

That's where you screw in the vacuum gauges for carb balancing.
70 Triumph TR6R, 74 850T, 74 Yamaha TA125, 89 Mille GT, 99 F650, 2013 Yamaha XT250
Gone: 59 Piper Comanche 250, 69 Harley/Aermacchi 350SS, 71 Honda CB500/4, 74 Laverda 750 SF2, 91 Suzuki VX800, 50cc two-stroke scoot, 83 XR350R

LesP

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #117 on: March 24, 2020, 06:21:17 PM »
That's where you screw in the vacuum gauges for carb balancing.

I think you would get a prize if you managed to do that. :laugh:

#
Maybe the later bikes are different but normally there are heavy Bakelite washers and a thin washer under the fastener heads to minimise direct heat transfer from the cylinder head to the intake/inlet manifolds.
I used two gaskets also... fwiw.

I am hesitant to post a picture in someone elses build thread but something like this, they normally have a thin steel washer but I machined new ones out of brass.


LesP

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #118 on: March 24, 2020, 06:25:26 PM »
Is it critical, probably not but was surprised at the material Moto Guzzi used, the modern fibre replacement versions are cheap construction in comparison.

Offline shiskowd

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Re: ‘75 850T Newb Restoration Project
« Reply #119 on: March 24, 2020, 08:51:27 PM »
Are you running the solenoid straight from the switch, or do you have a starter relay in the circuit? Not a big deal for testing but when the starter button is wired in you'll need a relay to protect it.

I'm planning on using an M.Unit to manage the electrics on the bike and I believe that gizmo can managed a 30A starter circuit.  You make a good point though as I blew a couple of 10A fuses when I turned the motor over with the ignition on.  The starter solenoid on the $59 starter pulls 10A on it's own - I suspect the original Bosch would be similar or more.
'14 KTM 500 EXC
'10 KTM 690R Rally
'75 Moto Guzzi 850T

 

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