Author Topic: V85 TT Merged Threadfest  (Read 334342 times)

Online blackcat

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #210 on: November 10, 2017, 06:47:43 AM »
I wouldn't get too excited about fall delivery. Unless things have changed since I was in the automotive prototyping arena, a new engine took a year to get through emissions qualification. We're not even seeing the new engine yet.

How do we know that they haven't already been working on getting this engine through emissions in Europe and the USA? After all, they have been succesfully tight lipped on this bike until the show.
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Offline jas67

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #211 on: November 10, 2017, 06:49:38 AM »
As expected, I read a lot of negative comments here. It seems obvious to me that Guzzi is never going to stand up again with the help of their existing clients, some of whom seem to be drinking a bucket of vinegar in the morning  :wink:.  Guzzi  desperately needs new blood that looks at their models without any prejudice.  1,5 year ago I sold my Norge to buy a Bmw f700gs and got a lot of criticism for that.  I wanted a lighter bike with decent hp and torque , and Guzzi did not offer it. So, I really like the V85, I hope it lives up to it's expectations (Hp, torque, seat, suspension....) etc.  And I hope they sell tons of it, even if that would make Guzzi less "exclusive" (which seems to be the only reason some people buy Guzzi).
Sorry, had to get that off my chest....

Don't get me wrong, I am truly excited about the forthcoming 80 HP small block.
But, at the same time, with the multiple expensive failures that I had on my Breva 1100 (two gauge clusters, one clutch that delaminated way before its time), and seeing the various valve train failures that have come out of Moto Guzzi, I just don't want to be the first guy to buy one.

I have had great service with the three small blocks that I've owned (still have two of them), and hope to see more of that kind of reliability in the future.   

Moto Guzzi is trying to grow their market.   As more of their bikes get out in the public eye, another failure like the Larios dropping valves, or the flat tappet fiasco could sink the company.    I hope they've thoroughly tested this new motor and don't have any widespread problems in customer hands.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #212 on: November 10, 2017, 08:33:55 AM »
How do we know that they haven't already been working on getting this engine through emissions in Europe and the USA? After all, they have been succesfully tight lipped on this bike until the show.
it's possible. They've been very tight-lipped strangely enough. Because of this there have been conflicting reports that the engine they're showing isn't the production engine. Time will tell.
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Offline Diploman

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #213 on: November 10, 2017, 08:36:54 AM »
Murray,  Your posts are consistently filled with cynicism, derision, vitriol, anti-Guzzi hostility, and gloom.  They seem to reflect an obsessive need to throw a wet blanket on any other poster's  enthusiasm, optimism or positive comments.  Do you take a perverse pleasure in cultivating an image as the Grim Reaper of WildGuzzi? 

Just as I love my wife despite knowing that she is not perfect, most of us here are well aware of Guzzi's shortcomings but continue to appreciate and support the marque's charms and strengths.   Some of your downer posts appear to be based on the premise that Guzzi is the only manufacturer whose bikes have any faults.  That, of course, is far from being the case, as we all know.

I would love to read a post from you that is interesting, creative, helpful or in some way positive.  However, if the dark side of the ledger is your only venue and you have nothing more than gratuitous negativity to contribute, I - and doubtless many others here - would appreciate it if you would keep your poison to yourself and not spill it here.  WildGuzzi should be a place to share a positive community experience.  Thank you.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 08:39:09 AM by Diploman »
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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #213 on: November 10, 2017, 08:36:54 AM »

Offline Dogwalker

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #214 on: November 10, 2017, 09:04:19 AM »
A timely comment, Frans! ^^

Now, can someone confirm that those 80 hp are on the wheel?
Surely not.
At the cranckshaft, they are at the limit of what's believable for a 850cc air-cooled V-twin that complies with the current emission regulations (and future. Euro-5 will come in 2020, and the life cycle of a new model is at least 5 years). It would have a higher specific power than the Ducati 800.
At the wheel, is beyond the realms of credibility.


Offline adventurelounger

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #215 on: November 10, 2017, 09:08:27 AM »
Very diplomatically said, Diploman. Even at 53, I happen to be relatively newish to Moto Guzzi. I'm now almost two years into owning a V7II Stornello and frigging love it. I don't have years or decades of Guzzi model experience (but about 15 years on 2 wheels...including BMWs, a Yamaha, and a Vespa). Ironically, I came to Yamaha and Guzzi FROM the BMW side. I enjoyed their bikes but found them to be fraught with unsettling recall issues (F800GS) and annoying engineering quirks that led to annoying small failures or frustrations. When I wanted to upgrade to a larger and reliable ADV bike, I looked at the big GS (and KTM) but settled on a Super Tenere (which has been joyful and flawless). And my Guzzi has been dream. I was attracted to the brand because of its European heritage and gorgeous styling. My dealer (Hamlin Cycles in CT) is top notch.

So when I read the grousing here about discontinued older models, valve arrangement obsession, and HP wistfulness or disappointment, I'm like...wha? It's awesome to have a Euro-bike alternative to the German and British (well, Triumph) machines that are stylish, have legit history and heritage, and are genuinely fun. For whatever reason, Ducati just doesn't float my boat, and I'm not sure why. I somehow find them less interesting than Guzzis, even if higher performing.

I'd love to see Guzzi be around for years to come. I like the new V85 and would love to see it in different livery (red frame with yellow and white paint is a little, um, McDonaldland to me). I can see myself buying one at some point. I come here to enjoy other rider's thoughts and opinions, and don't object to funny or clever potshots at the brand or this new engine/model. But if one thinks the bikes and the brand are shit, why spend the time or energy on an enthusiast site dumping on them?


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Offline Trialsman

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #216 on: November 10, 2017, 09:30:03 AM »
While some are taking the "wait and see" approach, I will take one for the Gipper.  I called yesterday and am first on the list to get one when the "local" dealer gets them in.  All the things I liked about my Stelvio are still there but it is MUCH lighter.  The reason I gave the Stelvio to my son was I figured I would drop it in the driveway while pushing it around.  Don't get me wrong I have a Norge but for off road I want something lighter. Singletrack is the Freeride or 570 but this will be for dual sport trips that usually are about 80% off the pavement.  The V85 is not a dirt bike but is very well suited to become a great dual sport bike.  The reason I keep riding Guzzi is that it brings a smile to my face every time I get on it.  Not only that, but all you have to do is "think it" around a turn and it is already done.  With the lower weight, slimmer seating, Ohlins suspension, and beefed up Guzzi power and character, I am sure I will not be disappointed.  At 65 I am riding to enjoy the experience on and off road.
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Offline flip

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #217 on: November 10, 2017, 09:32:44 AM »

Now, can someone confirm that those 80 hp are on the wheel?

I don't recall ever seeing Moto Guzzi or Aprilia advertising rear wheel hp so I seriously doubt it.
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Offline dxhall

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #218 on: November 10, 2017, 09:53:07 AM »
Did the dealer tell you when the bikes would arrive in the US? 

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #219 on: November 10, 2017, 09:57:19 AM »
Most manufacturers claim crank up, Guzzi is no different.
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Offline JohninVT

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #220 on: November 10, 2017, 10:27:49 AM »
100hp per liter at the crank is very, very good for an air-cooled twin.  See many 103ci Harley's with 170hp at the crank?  The Monster 1100 had 100hp.  For this reason, I think the valve train will be shim under bucket.  I think the engine will need to spin to an 8,500-9,000rpm redline to reach 80hp.  The engine is almost 50% smaller than a Griso 8v but puts out 70-75% as much power.

Offline pebra

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #221 on: November 10, 2017, 10:45:17 AM »
ha ha ha ho ho ho have you thought of taking up comedy? Guzzi have never ever published wheel numbers they have always been flywheel.

Well thanks anyway, still significantly better than the V7s and V9s, no?
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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #222 on: November 10, 2017, 11:45:18 AM »
Trialsman,

Congrats! Any idea when they will be in? Also, if I may ask, MSRP? I'm taking a guess at around $13k? Give or take a thou or so.

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #223 on: November 10, 2017, 12:23:33 PM »
I will seriously take a look at the V85 when it hits the showroom as I am thinking about adding a smaller and lighter mode of fun.  I'm not too worried about buying a first-year model as after umpty-thousand trouble free miles on a 2013 California Touring (well, except for the cracked crossover), it' still putting a smile on my face every time I get on it.  I think they may have finally got their QC right after the roller and clutch issues of days gone by.  My only problem is that I have room for 2 bikes in the man cave and would have to evict a car from the garage or get the white-trash sofa out of the shop.  Not an easy decision :evil:
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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #224 on: November 10, 2017, 04:52:17 PM »
I will seriously take a look at the V85 when it hits the showroom as I am thinking about adding a smaller and lighter mode of fun.  I'm not too worried about buying a first-year model as after umpty-thousand trouble free miles on a 2013 California Touring (well, except for the cracked crossover), it' still putting a smile on my face every time I get on it.  I think they may have finally got their QC right after the roller and clutch issues of days gone by.  My only problem is that I have room for 2 bikes in the man cave and would have to evict a car from the garage or get the white-trash sofa out of the shop.  Not an easy decision :evil:.

Goodbye sofa! Its hard enough gettin people outta the garage as it is.😜
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 06:31:19 PM by Matteo »
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Online Tom

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #225 on: November 10, 2017, 05:04:54 PM »
Not a hard decision.  Car goes outside.  :grin:
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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #226 on: November 10, 2017, 05:09:40 PM »
Tom's right, it's the only solution a true Guzzista can come too!
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #227 on: November 10, 2017, 05:16:10 PM »
Absolutely. A car never graced our garage unless I was working on it until we built Castle Pretentious, and had plenty of Guzzi room.
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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #228 on: November 10, 2017, 05:18:35 PM »
Amazing how may bikes can fit into a garage with no car in it.   :shocked:
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Offline Luap McKeever

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #229 on: November 10, 2017, 05:31:08 PM »
Time to go buy a lottery ticket. I would love to add this V85 to my garage.  I should have chosen a different career field so I could sleep on mattresses full of money :evil:

80HP does not appeal to me. I like torque more.
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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #230 on: November 10, 2017, 05:40:07 PM »
This would have appealed to me when I was younger.  I don't bounce that well.  Used to.   :grin:
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Offline Diploman

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #231 on: November 11, 2017, 07:17:05 AM »
Someone earlier in this thread objected to the offset rear shock on the V85, saying that this arrangement would induce a twisting moment into the swingarm.

Oddly, the new Ducati Scrambler has a very similar offset shock (along with the Kawasaki VerSys) and these pass without comment.  BMW has also used this configuration.  Seems like selective bias against Guzzi.

Offset rear shocks are a long-used and proven suspension arrangement, one which frees up space in the chassis center for other useful purposes compared to a centerline monoshock.  I don't find this a valid basis for objection, provided that the production model will have a quality single offset shock that works well.
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Online steven c

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #232 on: November 11, 2017, 08:17:15 AM »
 My BMW K75S that i owned used the offset single shock, made tire changing a breeze, put bike on center stand,remove 4 bolts take off tire. Lot of things I liked about that bike.....
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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #233 on: November 11, 2017, 08:51:04 AM »
Just a quiet one on the topic of heaping derision on Guzzies, (not Guzzi's)...
For my part I could not give a rats if my old Norge is bristling with 50's technology and is "old hat" and ; (relatively) gutless. I, like anyone else here could go and pull a Hyabusa out of any dealer and shut the door on that particular level of criticism.
However...
The argument that Guzzi simply must (and quite soon), start to compete head to head with their peers, does hold some water, because it is the sale of NEW bikes that keeps the doors open in Mandello, not the selling and re cycling of existing bikes on the road, or long term owners who say, "I don't care if all the new bikes are crap, my Norge will see me out"...
And I'm one of them.
When your new bike buyer takes his/her wheelbarrow full of money to the shop to buy a beaut new bike, they have to think of a damn good reason to stroll past all the Triumphs, Beemers, Dukes etc... and dump the lot on a Guzzi.
Murray's comments might be a little fruity for some, but the thrust of his comments may be worth trying to digest before being spat out...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 08:58:55 AM by Huzo »

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #234 on: November 11, 2017, 08:57:27 AM »
Someone earlier in this thread objected to the offset rear shock on the V85, saying that this arrangement would induce a twisting moment into the swingarm.

Oddly, the new Ducati Scrambler has a very similar offset shock (along with the Kawasaki VerSys) and these pass without comment.  BMW has also used this configuration.  Seems like selective bias against Guzzi.

Offset rear shocks are a long-used and proven suspension arrangement, one which frees up space in the chassis center for other useful purposes compared to a centerline monoshock.  I don't find this a valid basis for objection, provided that the production model will have a quality single offset shock that works well.
Valid comment I reckon.
There will be a twisting moment there (Issac Newton said so), but the inbuilt rigidity is more than enough to cope.
If you consider that the centre of pressure is on the centre line of the wheel, a rough guess would be about 70 mm offset, just not enough moment to create trouble. As you correctly say, not a drama with the other examples.

Offline mermoto

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #235 on: November 11, 2017, 10:44:07 AM »
White Edition  :grin:


« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 10:45:57 AM by mermoto »

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #236 on: November 11, 2017, 10:55:10 AM »
No information on the motor and the only change seems to be to the shape of the rocker covers so if there is anything it looks like it's just bearing out what was already evident in the castings of the head and rocker supports. Central plug and a couple of extra valves per cylinder.....zzzzzz zzzzz........

Minor improvements to other stuff, totally inadequate rear suspension and no reactive drive. Sorry, socks still firmly attatched to feet.

It's also, as they say, a 'Concept' so chances are it's the only one ever 'Built'. I wouldn't be holding your breath waiting for one to pop up in a showroom near you. Oh well. It achieved its aim. It got people talking and made fantasists all moist.

Pete
I believe the single rear shock being located on the right side of the bike would or could work as well as the R80 from the early 1980s.  At least one wouldn't have to take half the bike apart to replace the shock.  Doesn't appear to have a single sided swingarm (lovely for removing rear wheel.)  Seems rather regressive to add more power and not equip the bike with CARC or similar reactive rear drive.  My 1991 R100GS has a Paralever (reactive) final drive with single sided swingarm.  Maybe a slightly less massive CARC would work cosmetically with this slightly smaller bike.

Seems to me that the Griso chassis and powertrain could have been developed into several different desirable models .... thinking about the multi model R9T bikes.

Oh, well ............ off to another thread, now.  Socks still on!
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Offline AH Fan

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #237 on: November 11, 2017, 11:42:01 AM »
White Edition  :grin:





Now that is a sexy Goose.............. ........ me likey....me want one.    :popcorn:

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #238 on: November 11, 2017, 11:50:46 AM »
The words jones'n and woody come to mind
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Offline JohninVT

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Re: V85 TT Merged Threadfest
« Reply #239 on: November 11, 2017, 01:20:52 PM »
Someone earlier in this thread objected to the offset rear shock on the V85, saying that this arrangement would induce a twisting moment into the swingarm.

Oddly, the new Ducati Scrambler has a very similar offset shock (along with the Kawasaki VerSys) and these pass without comment.  BMW has also used this configuration.  Seems like selective bias against Guzzi.

Offset rear shocks are a long-used and proven suspension arrangement, one which frees up space in the chassis center for other useful purposes compared to a centerline monoshock.  I don't find this a valid basis for objection, provided that the production model will have a quality single offset shock that works well.
[/quoteI

The Versys, Ninja650 and Ducati aren't shaft drive.  think it's a valid concern until we see how the swingarm is mounted.  I'm not selectively biased.  I'm on my fifth or sixth Guzzi.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 01:24:21 PM by JohninVT »


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