Rough weather in Oklahoma

[Darren Williams]

Barges hit dam, one sinks immediately, other hangs on for a short while.

https://kfor.com/2019/05/23/watch-two-barges-sink-after-hitting-dam-at-webbers-falls/

[oldbike54]

Barges hit dam, one sinks immediately, other hangs on for a short while.

https://kfor.com/2019/05/23/watch-two-barges-sink-after-hitting-dam-at-webbers-falls/

 Loaded with fertilizer , this likely isn't over yet . The barge channel is normally maybe 15 feet deep and requires regular dredging , freaky to see those barges disappear under water .

 Dusty

[Darren Williams]

So, how are the roads up in NE Oklahoma? I'm going to be riding up to Seneca this afternoon. Planning on 412 to Locust Grove and 82/20 up thru Spavinaw over to Jay, up 59 to Grove, then on 10 to 60. May have detours?

Might be an adventure.   

[LowRyter]

wow,  that barge smacked the dam.  I hope the dam holds.

[oldbike54]

So, how are the roads up in NE Oklahoma? I'm going to be riding up to Seneca this afternoon. Planning on 412 to Locust Grove and 82/20 up thru Spavinaw over to Jay, up 59 to Grove, then on 10 to 60. May have detours?

Might be an adventure.   

 About half of the roads up there are underwater , last picture I saw showed Spavinaw flooded out . I would find a different route , this is serious Darren , even some of the bridges are closed .

 Dusty

[PJPR01]

Incredible...those barge owners are going to be in deep shit...both from a direct losses perspective as well as liability if this erodes the stability of the dam.

Flipped those barges over very easily...the power of H2O.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Dorcia and I were watching it, and she said, "Why didn't they sink those barges before they hit the dam?" Seems reasonable to me. <shrug>

[wirespokes]

I was just going to write that exact same thing. Blow a hole in the hull and recover it later.

[LowRyter]

How could the barges be sunk?

[oldbike54]

 They were trying to save the cargo , probably a million dollars worth of fertilizer .

 Dusty

[PJPR01]

...and I'm guessing that barges don't have an anchor either....

It is surprising that when they were beached, the couldn't somehow attach them with some heavy duty steel cables to the shore...but I don't know where they landed initially or if that were feasible, or perhaps drop a pilot on them from a helicopter and start up the engines to run against the current?  Looks like they were attached to each other as well as they floated downstream...

I'm no barge expert, but so many questions...maybe someone has answers...or insight.

[oldbike54]

...and I'm guessing that barges don't have an anchor either....

It is surprising that when they were beached, the couldn't somehow attach them with some heavy duty steel cables to the shore...but I don't know where they landed initially or if that were feasible, or perhaps drop a pilot on them from a helicopter and start up the engines to run against the current?  Looks like they were attached to each other as well as they floated downstream...

I'm no barge expert, but so many questions...maybe someone has answers...or insight.

 To answer the last part , these are simply shipping containers , no engines , no steering mechanism , just dumb boxes .
 
 These barges are anchored by cables with loops on the end that are placed over posts anchored in concrete . Apparently they floated up so high the loops were pulled over the top of the posts .We are in uncharted waters here (pun intended) , no one really believed the river could get this high .

 Lastly , they hit the damn really hard , like whammo kabam , there is some visible damage to the damn , except now it is being obscured by water flowing over the barges .

 Dusty

[LowRyter]

I think I heard on the news that they secured the barges to a tree when it was beached but they finally pulled the tree down.

I am still curious how those barges could've been sunk?

[Guzzistajohn]

Oklahoma my A$$, this is my yard this morning!

77 miles east of the OK line

[Darren Williams]

Oklahoma my A$$, this is my yard this morning!

77 miles east of the OK line

At least you have a yard. Most of my top soil washed away and what little vegetation that is left is the stuff I’ve been trying to kill out.

[Pizza Guzzi]

Oklahoma weather even making news on tv in Australia !
Freaky to see those barges smash into the dam. Hope you are all safe.

Glenn

[oldbike54]

Oklahoma weather even making news on tv in Australia !
Freaky to see those barges smash into the dam. Hope you are all safe.

Glenn

 Just about 20 miles South from me Glenn , they went feral from about 2 miles East of here .

 Dusty

[LowRyter]

At least you have a yard. Most of my top soil washed away and what little vegetation that is left is the stuff I’ve been trying to kill out.

my tomatoes and peppers look like heck.  I have few blooms today.  But I lost two tomatoes, of course, I am on the west side of town.

Thought about Ark(ansas) next weekend?

[rocker59]

Dusty, I hear the WildGuzzi Private Yacht has been refloated.  Make sure that thing is tied down!

[oldbike54]

Dusty, I hear the WildGuzzi Private Yacht has been refloated.  Make sure that thing is tied down!

  I am gonna need a little assistance 

 Dusty

[Darren Williams]

my tomatoes and peppers look like heck.  I have few blooms today.  But I lost two tomatoes, of course, I am on the west side of town.

Thought about Ark(ansas) next weekend?

Spending this weekend over here, in SW Mo now. Heading to Hot Springs today. Trying to figure something out for next weekend. Maybe truck the Griso over there Friday night or Saturday morning. Mostly depends on work and how much yard reconstruction I need to do.

[oldbike54]

Dorcia and I were watching it, and she said, "Why didn't they sink those barges before they hit the dam?" Seems reasonable to me. <shrug>

 Because ...well , they were loaded with fertilizer , and the story here is that it was ammonium nitrate . Not verified yet , the details are still sketchy, but even the fear of what might happen caused the authorities to be cautious .


 We still haven't seen the worst , the Arkansas in Muskogee is expected to crest at 45' above flood stage around midnight , Keystone lake is still rising, down to about 9' of head space , Ft Gibson lake is also still rising , Ft Gibson is sans power , although they are working on a temporary fix in the form of a portable sub station being imported from Arkansas . Ft Smith will see record flooding , as will every low lying area down river . I am staying home out of the way until someone calls for help in the form of my truck and trailer .

 What a mess .

 Dusty

[Darren Williams]

Lots of high water running under bridges in NE Oklahoma. Extreme SW Missouri and Eastern Arkansas down to Hot Springs didn’t look bad at all. Spending the night here in Hot Springs then heading back to central Oklahoma tomorrow. Will get to see some of the Arkansas river run off first hand.

We did have to stop on a bridge yesterday with water hitting the underside. You could feel it moving around from the water pressure. Kind of an eerie feeling.

[Kent in Upstate NY]

I was just going to write that exact same thing. Blow a hole in the hull and recover it later.

Blow hole in a barge full of fertilizer? Nitrates go Boom!

[SmithSwede]

Incredible...those barge owners are going to be in deep shit...both from a direct losses perspective as well as liability if this erodes the stability of the dam.

Flipped those barges over very easily...the power of H2O.

Paul, you might be very surprised.  Assuming the existence of admiralty jurisdiction, the barge owners may be able to limit their liability to the value of the two barges pursuant to the Limitation of Liabilty Act of 1851. 

That’s what happened in the Titanic sinking.  1,500 people died, the entire ship and much valuable property was lost, all due to plain negligence of the captain and crew. Yet the ship owner, White Star Lines, was able to limit liability to a total of $92,000 for everything.  Why?  Because the surviving life boats were worth $3,000, the value of ticket payments not yet collected, were valued at $89,000.  So that little $92,000 fund was split among all claimants.  It did not matter that White Star had other assets.  And this result obtained even though the ship was English, had never been to the United States, and sank on the high seas.

Same result in the Great Chicago Flood of 1992.  A barge on the river was engaged in a pile driving operation and unfortunately drove a piling so deep into the river bed that it penetrated into the Chicago tunnel system that lies party under the river.   Millions of gallons of water went into that hole, causing a massive flood of downtown Chicago, the basements of multiple skyscrapers, and billions in damages.    The barge owner invoked federal admiralty jurisdiction, and was able to limit its liability to the value of the crappy old barge.   

[Muzz]

Oklahoma weather even making news on tv in Australia !
Freaky to see those barges smash into the dam. Hope you are all safe.

Glenn

Made it to NZ two days ago.  Haven't seen the barges yet.

[PJPR01]

Paul, you might be very surprised.  Assuming the existence of admiralty jurisdiction, the barge owners may be able to limit their liability to the value of the two barges pursuant to the Limitation of Liabilty Act of 1851. 

That’s what happened in the Titanic sinking.  1,500 people died, the entire ship and much valuable property was lost, all due to plain negligence of the captain and crew. Yet the ship owner, White Star Lines, was able to limit liability to a total of $92,000 for everything.  Why?  Because the surviving life boats were worth $3,000, the value of ticket payments not yet collected, were valued at $89,000.  So that little $92,000 fund was split among all claimants.  It did not matter that White Star had other assets.  And this result obtained even though the ship was English, had never been to the United States, and sank on the high seas.

Same result in the Great Chicago Flood of 1992.  A barge on the river was engaged in a pile driving operation and unfortunately drove a piling so deep into the river bed that it penetrated into the Chicago tunnel system that lies party under the river.   Millions of gallons of water went into that hole, causing a massive flood of downtown Chicago, the basements of multiple skyscrapers, and billions in damages.    The barge owner invoked federal admiralty jurisdiction, and was able to limit its liability to the value of the crappy old barge.

I shall have to study this a bit more...on the surface, it defies logic that a shipowner or barge owner is not responsible for proactively planning for a situation like this...tethering it and assuming it doesn't float away doesn't sound like a terribly sound "insurance policy" in the event of rising waters, but perhaps there was no other real physical option...and scuttling it while tethered didn't make sense either. 

Funny how when it comes to big losses, there seems to be some paper protection when in reality the practical side of what happened doesn't seem to come into play. 

More to study...thanks Captain!!

[LowRyter]

I shall have to study this a bit more...on the surface, it defies logic that a shipowner or barge owner is not responsible for proactively planning for a situation like this...tethering it and assuming it doesn't float away doesn't sound like a terribly sound "insurance policy" in the event of rising waters, but perhaps there was no other real physical option...and scuttling it while tethered didn't make sense either. 

Funny how when it comes to big losses, there seems to be some paper protection when in reality the practical side of what happened doesn't seem to come into play. 

More to study...thanks Captain!!

Something that is "act of God" + limited liability for industry?   It sounds about right to me.

I am sure that all the barges and mooring were inspected by the powers that be.  The insurance companies will settle, the difference to the dam will be made up by the taxpayers, anyone else might pray for a FEMA loan or perhaps a town benefit?  Maybe someone had flood insurance? 

[LowRyter]

Dusty is sailing the high seas, next stop Catoosa

[oldbike54]

Dusty is sailing the high seas, next stop Catoosa

 You see that little figure standing near the rear end of that thing ? It isn't me  Helicopters and submarines , I want nothing to do with either

 Dusty