2012 MG Norge or 2013 Yamaha FJR 1300

[TribeFan]

I have finally whittled my decision to the 2012 MG Norge or the 2013 Yamaha FJR 1300.  My heart would argue that there should not be a debate as I love the looks and character of the Norge.  However, I am still concerned about the reviews of cramped leg room.  I am 6', 210 lbs with a 34" inseam and was hoping to pick the brains of some current long of leg Norge owners for feedback.  I plan to test ride both before making the final decision but I don't know how thorough a conclusion I can come to in a 20 minute test ride. 
Also, I am coming off a 65 HP Versys, is this a logical next step in motorcycle?  I have read that the power comes on smoothly so is it pretty easy to control?  Thanks for any help and I hope to log on soon as a paying member, my friends!

[blackbuell]

3 years ago, the Norge and the FJR were two of my finalists for a new 2-up tourer. I chose the Norge in part because it was better suited to my small body size: 5'7" and 150 lbs. I imagine that without modification of the seat and/or pegs, a rider of your dimensions might feel cramped on a Norge. No doubt some taller Norge owners will chime in here.

Jon

[roadscum]

You mighT want to give some thought to dealer support in your area. Where I live there's a strong Yamaha dealer network, no o with Guzzi. I sold my '06 FJR to buy a 1200 Sport, same frame as a Norge. Due to,electrical,issue and lack of dealer support the Guzzi had to go after two years and 21k miles.

I now enjoy a Yamaha SuperTenere, you might want to give the S10 some consideration. I find it has a much more roomy cockpit then either the Norge or the FJR, and when the Tarmac end you can rode on with confidence.

Regards, Paul

[JediMasterII]

I have a 2012 Norge and absolutely love it.

I did have modify the seat to add about 3/4-1 inch on the height for comfort for longer rides (>150 miles) because I am 6'2" and 250 lbs.

A Cal Sci windshield and topcase were also added for a nice touring setup.

I should mention that I also have a 2006 Breva which I did not have to modify the seat height.

Don

[guzziks]

Like said above, make sure there is strong dealer support and get test ride.   Make sure the in town stop and go throttle control is to your liking.  Norges can be finicky, but some of the Japanese bikes I test rode were worse.

I'm 5-11' and lowered the foot pegs and moved the bars back on my 07 Norge.  The new norges already have the bars moved back to a better position for me. 

The norge will be more powerful but not crazy fast.  The fjr has a lot more and will have a much different character.

There is lots of stuff on the Internet about fjr's. 

[youcanrunnaked]

My head would say FJR but my heart would say Norge.  FJR is smoother, faster, more refined, and with better dealer support.  Norge is more soulful, beautiful, unusual, with a layout that's easier for the owner to work on.  Ergos will be less cramped on the FJR, but the Norge can be easily modified to fit you, so I would not let that be the deciding factor.

[Cage Free]

If this is an only bike I would go with the Yamaha hands down.. I love my 12 Griso and so far its been trouble free but I still trust a Japanese bike more for overall reliability.. Gotta have a backup bike just in case imho..I had an 05 FJR and they are very fast, comfortable and reliable with a great dealer network.

[redrider90]

I cannot speak for a Norge but at 6'5' very little in life fits me. So when I bought the Mille in 91 it fit pretty good with that tall seat an bars.  But I decided to lower the seat height and drop the bars so I could tuck in tight in the twisties. After a couple of years I realized that was a great position to ride hard but 98% of my time was not in the twisties but in the Piedmont of NC. I found that riding position was wearing me out. So I brought the bars up a bit and added 4" height to the seat and also took the raise further back so I could stretch out a bit. I left enough for my wife who has been only an occasional passenger but I raised it so she could see over my shoulders. So if you lust after a Norge seat mods could help. I wonder if the foot controls could be moved with some cu$tom mods? But it is amazing what a difference seat height can make. Of course with a 36" inseam I have no trouble getting my feet firmly on the ground. I doubt guys shorter than 5'10" could do that on my bike.  

[DucatiSSsp]

The FJR is a rocket ship and will get you where you want to go lickity split!  kinda top heavy, but not noticeable when moving.  mine has been sitting in the garage and not getting much use...need to take it in and see if it has the dreaded "ticking" premature valve guide wear which affected 03-05 models.  The engine makes a lot of heat due to lean fueling and a cat but newer generations have effectively cured this.  There are all types of "farkles" available to tailor it to suit you....bar risers, electrical, seats, fork braces, suspension mods, etc.  Mine has never left me stranded or given me problems except for the "ticking"!  Might also check insurance rates for both.  Most insurance companies classify the FJR as a sportbike for which they wanted $1700 a year for coverage....no thankyou, i'll go without! 

[EvanM]

I am 6'0" and have a Breva 1100 (same frame/ seating position as norge) and while at the Michigan rally, I had a chance to try my uncle's 2012 FJR. I found that the pegs were a bit too high for my tastes, and that the stock windshield did not do too much for me. Also, found that my legs and seat were starting to get hot after around 15-20 minutes riding it. Besides that, as stated before, the thing is a rocket ship. Quite quick and very smooth. Almost feels like the engine isn't even running.

[blackcat]

Almost feels like the engine isn't even running.

If I have to rev the shit out of motorcycle engine just to hear the thing,then I really don't want the bike. Guess I'm old school

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^  That's not the way you ride an FJR.  If you wound the engine out in each gear, you'd be illegal before leaving second gear; well in excess of 100 mph in third.

The engine makes crazy good power throughout the rev range, and the throttle response is immediate; almost like the thing has an electric motor.  It's character is one of silky smoothness, which is not a bad thing for a touring bike, especially if you want to cover a lot of miles at a clip.  Don't knock it if you haven't tried it. 

[Bill N]

My 98 EV has done me well for 15 years and I have no complaints. I bought it for long trips and it has served me well. But before I get too old I want to do a few more east coast west coast trips. My long trips likely will be solo and I'm thinking the old EV might eventually fail me. Not a good thought crossing the western deserts. So I bought a 2009 FJR. My coast to coast trip on it was flawless and comfortable.
It dosen't have near the soul of my EV but it has refinement which is welcome when alone on distant highways. The acceleration and power when fully loaded is phenominal. Corners good too but the EV is more spry. Can't comment on two up riding but I've read mixed reviews (good/bad) concerning that. Seems its cramped with large folks and nothing close in comfort compared to a gold wing. The 2013 reviews of the FJR are generally favorable, the heat issue was solved years ago. Might need an after market windshield, I did, but its only a few hundred bucks. The electric windshield is awesome. Good luck on your decision. Bill

[MarkIIITom]

I have/had numerous Yamahas (FJ1100, FZ1, Seca 2 600, Radian, RZ350, FZR400) and a LeMans Mark 3.

Want to look good?  Really good?  Buy the Guzzi.

Want to get there, every time, in a huge hurry, without a worry in the world? 

Yamaha.

If you are very lucky, you can buy them both. 

But if you can't, get the FJR.  Maybe in a few years you will fall into a T3 cafe project (or a nice pair of shoes), and you can look cool then.

[Jim Rich]

I am 6'1" and ride on 07 Norge.  I have had no problems with the ergos and am quite comfortable riding long distances on it.  I put a cramp buster on the throttle and a sheepskin cover on the seat if I am doing big miles.  It is all day comfortable for a week of touring for me whether it is a 3,000 mile week to the Rockies and back or 2 up with the wife riding a big loop of Kentucky.  Go ride them and you'll see things you like and dislike.  Some guys change out the windshield on the Norge for a larger one, I am ok with stock shield.  Happy hunting.   

[Bill N]

I am 6'1" and ride on 07 Norge.  I have had no problems with the ergos and am quite comfortable riding long distances on it.  I put a cramp buster on the throttle and a sheepskin cover on the seat if I am doing big miles.  It is all day comfortable for a week of touring for me whether it is a 3,000 mile week to the Rockies and back or 2 up with the wife riding a big loop of Kentucky.  Go ride them and you'll see things you like and dislike.  Some guys change out the windshield on the Norge for a larger one, I am ok with stock shield.  Happy hunting.   

+1 on the recommendation to do a test ride prior to making a decision. I'd never buy a bike like this without trying it out first. We all have our differences and what works for me might not work for you. Bill

[TribeFan]

Funny you should bring up the Super Tenere, roadscum (that seems wrong)...I like the room and look of the adventure bikes.  In fact, last month I almost (should have) pulled the trigger on a 12 Triumph Tiger 800 with 1200 miles and only $7500.  But my girlfriend does noes like the looks of the adventures. She wants me to get a cruiser but the sport tourer is a happy medium. 
Also, the dealer network is pretty strong here in northeast Ohio, I have 3 Guzzi dealers within 40 minutes of me.  Thanks sir

[TribeFan]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys.  I'll keep you posted...looking forward to the test ride

[Gliderjohn]

For what it is worth I am 5'10" with a 33" inseam. I have a 2011 Norge and I do not feel cramped at all. I have also added the CalSci windshield and a trunk. There is just enough vibes to let you know you are riding a bike but does not effect comfort what so ever. Handling is very good. How much power does one need? The Norge 8V will cruise all day in comfort at 100mph and you can get there quite quickly. I have had mine up to 140mph indicated with bags and trunk on a private runway and it still had a little bit left. It was rock solid steady at that speed.
GliderJohn

[Cheese]

I'd think the weight difference would significantly affect the handling. Believe the FJ is at least 100 lbs more than the Norge. I know how the norge changes from empty tank to full, adding 45lbs or so. FJ must be more of a handful, especially when going is slow. 

[pcarnut]

My .02.  Have had both the FJR (05 and 07) and Norge (07).  The Norge has more character and is a beautiful bike but I just kept having issues with it, over and over.  Being lighter, the Norge is a more nimble bike in twisties.  The honeymoon lasted for about a year, soldiered on for another year and finally gave up.  Currently have an 07 FJR and love it.  Yes it's heavier than a Norge but it is what it is.  Handling with a Hagon rear shock is great, finish and fit are better than the Norge, tank is metal so no expanding tank issues. etc. etc.  I had tons of issues with the Norge, some covered here by others but there were quite a few more, was willing to overlook them for a while but in the end came not to trust the bike.  You can see where my recommendation is going.  FYI also, the new 2014 FJR was just announced, new color is red, (yay) and electronically adjusted suspension is available on the ES version. Best of luck what ever you decide.

[LowRyter]

I don't know how the fit.  The FJR is a rocket but the 8 valve Norge is no slouch and has plenty of grunt.  The Norge is also lighter and more agile but again the FJR is pretty good handle despite soft and saggy suspension.

Valve maintenance is a snap with the Norge but will be a little costly of the FJR.

[Cage Free]

I don't know how the fit.  The FJR is a rocket but the 8 valve Norge is no slouch and has plenty of grunt.  The Norge is also lighter and more agile but again the FJR is pretty good handle despite soft and saggy suspension.

Valve maintenance is a snap with the Norge but will be a little costly of the FJR.

Believe me, compared to the FJR the Norge IS a slouch. My 05 would do second gear power wheelies up freeway on ramps without even trying and certainly leave my Griso 8V in the dust..Damn, all this FJR talk makes me miss mine and maybe think about a new one..Valve adjustments every 26K miles is no big deal..wonder how much I could get for my 12 Griso and 07 Bandit, hmmmm..

[youcanrunnaked]

Valve adjustments on the FJR are every 26K miles, but my understanding is you have to drop the engine from the frame to do it, and a dealer will charge over $600 for the service.

[redrider90]

Valve adjustments on the FJR are every 26K miles, but my understanding is you have to drop the engine from the frame to do it, and a dealer will charge over $600 for the service.

What! 600 large to drop the engine for a value adjustment and Guzzi guys are complaining about maintenance/lack of dealer network? Heck I had to drop the motor out of my Mille but that was to get the tranny out not for a valve adjustment. 

[Bill N]

What! 600 large to drop the engine for a value adjustment and Guzzi guys are complaining about maintenance/lack of dealer network? Heck I had to drop the motor out of my Mille but that was to get the tranny out not for a valve adjustment.  

Dropping the FJR engine for a valve adjustment it BS, It's not true...but it will be around $500-$600 for the labor. Many owners do the first check at 26,000 miles then skip the next one. Compared to the Kawi C-14 the interval is longer on the FJR and the servicing is easier. The FJR is a rocketship. It's smooth, comfortable, and reliable. It's refinement looses the character we all love on Guzzi's. However when I'm on a solo ride thousands of miles from home, crossing a hot desert, the refinement seems ok to me. For the OP consider a Vstrom. My fellow rider sold his FJR to get one for two up riding and he loves the thing.
Bill

[youcanrunnaked]

Dropping the FJR engine for a valve adjustment it BS, It's not true...but it will be around $500-$600 for the labor.

Thanks for clearing that up, as I have heard conflicting stories on that. 

Good call on the V-Strom; the new model looks really nice.  I've ridden an SV1000 (basically the same engine) and I own an SV650, and the Suzuki v-twins offer a good combination of Japanese reliability and European character.

http://www.suzuki-vstrom.com/

[nikwax]

I have finally whittled my decision to the 2012 MG Norge or the 2013 Yamaha FJR 1300.  My heart would argue that there should not be a debate as I love the looks and character of the Norge.  However, I am still concerned about the reviews of cramped leg room.  I am 6', 210 lbs with a 34" inseam and was hoping to pick the brains of some current long of leg Norge owners for feedback.  I plan to test ride both before making the final decision but I don't know how thorough a conclusion I can come to in a 20 minute test ride.  
Also, I am coming off a 65 HP Versys, is this a logical next step in motorcycle?  I have read that the power comes on smoothly so is it pretty easy to control?  Thanks for any help and I hope to log on soon as a paying member, my friends!

I'm 6'3", 34" inseam, 200 lbs. The leg angle was wrong for me, and as I wasn't all that keen on the seat, I had the seat rebuilt. My upper leg is now parallel to the ground, and 400 mile days don't bother my creaky knees.


What really impresses me about the Norge is how well balanced it is, and how agile. Handling is amazing, even fully loaded.


Power is easy to control. It's not a hyperactive sport bike.

The dealer network is definitely an issue. If you have a good dealer nearby, great. If not, beware. I'm now 200 miles away from the nearest responsible dealer.

[ohiorider]

I was curious about the time involved in doing a valve adjustment on the FJR, so I stopped off at a local Yamaha dealer this afternoon to discuss with one of their service managers.  He may have low-balled me with his estimates, and I didn't ask about dropping the engine.  Anyway, here's what he told me.  Fuel tank and air box must be removed.  Approx 2+ hours labor to pull the valve cover and check the valves.  Add another couple/three hours if the cams have to be removed and replaced to adjust any valve clearance (shim under bucket.)  I'd guess their shop rate would be in the neighborhood of $85-100/hour, so Bill N's $500-600 figures are spot on.

[redrider90]

I can remember how much work it was to do the valves on my 73 Ducati GT. If I remember correctly they were called winkler caps.  I had as many thicknesses as I could buy back then and even then it  was not always enough. I would check the clearance and then mic the cap and get as close as I could. If I was too far off I would get one that was too tight and grind it down and a very flat board i had that was covered with formica. I had a large sheet of fine emery cloth and slowly rubbed the winkler cap in opposing circles to get the clearance correct. Sometimes it would take an half an hour to get off a couple of thousandths of an inch. In the middle of central Illinois there was no dealer network. I then moved to rural central Georgia, Warm Springs and the closest dealer was in Athens if I remember. Too far to get a valve job.
So it was a hand job valve job.  ;-T Just sayin.