Hold out for the V7 II or dive in now?

[rocker59]

It's a tiny percent difference...

Have you ridden one? 

How did it shift? 

How did the ratio spacing feel?

[Kev m]

It's a tiny percent difference...

I don't know why people argue about this crap.

What is significant to one is nothing to the next guy.

But that means neither can tell the other what it is or is not.

[kevdog3019]

I don't know why people argue about this crap.

What is significant to one is nothing to the next guy.

But that means neither can tell the other what it is or is not.

I think it's safe to say that since the '04 B750... tractability (i.e. suspension, brakes et al), engine delivery, overall character is not much different today than at that time.  We are talking small incremental changes over 11 years that thus far are not affecting these three points to any great degree.  Aside from the riding experience, if it's easier to maintain and more reliable compared to that time, that's another issue.  I'm not seeing it.  Nothing tells me yet that I should sell a B750 because I'm going to be WOWED by the newer stuff when I hop in the saddle.  How about some decent suspension instead of new electronic gadgery for GODS sake; that's safety too.  Basics 101 class should be offered over there.  Instead of being able to turn off TC, wouldn't it be cool to be able to turn on some upper revs instead?  No... sorry.  

[Kev m]

I think it's safe to say that since the '04 B750... tractability (i.e. suspension, brakes et al), engine delivery, overall character is not much different today than at that time.  We are talking small incremental changes over 11 years that thus far are not affecting these three points to any great degree.  Aside from the riding experience, if it's easier to maintain and more reliable compared to that time, that's another issue.  I'm not seeing it.  Nothing tells me yet that I should sell a B750 because I'm going to be WOWED by the newer stuff when I hop in the saddle.  How about some decent suspension instead of new electronic gadgery for GODS sake; that's safety too.  Basics 101 class should be offered over there.  Instead of being able to turn off TC, wouldn't it be cool to be able to turn on some upper revs instead?  No... sorry.  

Who is trying to convince you to sell a B750 and replace it with a V7II?

That said, I've ridden a B7, V7C, and V7 Stone, and I'll take my Stone every time.

I want the metal tank, the cast wheels, the 1TB throttle body, the torque curve of the new motor (and yes, riding them back-to-back Jay's V7C and my V7 Stone Jay and I BOTH came to that conclusion, so he sold his V7C and bought his Racer), etc.

But I'm not telling you what to do.

I'm also not going to listen when someone else says it's only a "tiny" or some other subjective term - difference. I'm going to find out for myself if the difference is significant TO ME and that's all that really matters when spending my dollars, just as you feel the same way about yours.

That was my point...

[jas67]

OK , hold up just a minute here Kev m , aren't you the same guy who says 50 lbs isn't noticeable on a motorbike  ??? ;D

  Dusty

Remember, Dusty, Kev M is a Harley guy.       :pop

[Kev m]

OK , hold up just a minute here Kev m , aren't you the same guy who says 50 lbs isn't noticeable on a motorbike  ??? ;D

  Dusty

Depends on what we're talking about...

NOTICEABLE, SIGNIFICANT, all need a context.

Nothing I just said contradicts that.

Remember, Dusty, Kev M is a Harley guy.       :pop

Bitch PLEASE...

I've been riding Guzzis for 10 years...that what, like 5x longer than you? But "I'm a Harley guy" cause I like them too?

Have a drink on me...

[kevdog3019]

Let's say Guzzi did a new head design that pulled 10-15hp. My feeling is most folks would be running down the street like NOW to their local Guzzi shop. Then in a year or two offered a 6 speed gearbox. WOO HOO... more folks running down the street. This is a little ass-backwards how it's being done IMHO. It just seems like there should be a REASON for a 6-speed box. Oh... so you accelerate better? Or... You are not revving so high on the freeway?  Yep... essentially helping this current engine. If this engine could use the help...

[Kev m]

Let's say Guzzi did a new head design that pulled 10-15hp. My feeling is most folks would be running down the street like NOW to their local Guzzi shop. Then in a year or two offered a 6 speed gearbox. WOO HOO... more folks running down the street. This is a little ass-backwards how it's being done IMHO. It just seems like there should be a REASON for a 6-speed box. Oh... so you accelerate better? Or... You are not revving so high on the freeway?  Yep... essentially helping this current engine. If this engine could use the help...

Actually, I get that, and I don't necessarily disagree.

I'm not real worried about it personally.

But I could see the motor output being a game changer at that point.

Of course, it could be they have concerns about the old transmission if they did it in that order... so then this order would make sense to amortize the costs over multiple years.

[rocker59]

I'm with Kev m.

My WAG is that they're upgrading the driveline ahead of the engine upgrade, so that the driveline can handle the additional power of the new engine.

Time will tell...

[kevdog3019]

I'm with Kev m.

My WAG is that they're upgrading the driveline ahead of the engine upgrade, so that the driveline can handle the additional power of the new engine.

Time will tell...

I've thought of that also, but Milich is running 55RWHP on an 80's gearbox for years racing. Hmmm...

[Kev m]

I've thought of that also, but Milich is running 55RWHP on an 80's gearbox for years racing. Hmmm...

Are we sure he's done nothing to that gearbox?

Or, conversely, that THEY didn't do something to the materials or design of the gearbox since the 80s?

[Vasco DG]

I think it's safe to say that since the '04 B750... tractability (i.e. suspension, brakes et al), engine delivery, overall character is not much different today than at that time.  We are talking small incremental changes over 11 years that thus far are not affecting these three points to any great degree.  Aside from the riding experience, if it's easier to maintain and more reliable compared to that time, that's another issue.  I'm not seeing it.  Nothing tells me yet that I should sell a B750 because I'm going to be WOWED by the newer stuff when I hop in the saddle.  How about some decent suspension instead of new electronic gadgery for GODS sake; that's safety too.  Basics 101 class should be offered over there.  Instead of being able to turn off TC, wouldn't it be cool to be able to turn on some upper revs instead?  No... sorry.  

The incremental changes have made the V7-II a substantially better machine than the Breva 750, really. It also shits me to tears that people keep banging on about 'Power'. The Smallblock is what it is and it does what it does very nicely and in a charming way. You either *Get* that or you don't. If you don't? Well there are dozens of other motorbikes to choose from. Forget it's a 750. Swept volume means nothing really, especially in this day and age. Pretend it's a 250! Good grief! What is it with all these size obsessives?? And why would you want to stick a lot more power through an obsolete chassis? That would be asking for problems, along with the bevelbox which hasn't changed since dinosaurs ruled the earth.

As far as the suspension is concerned I'm sure a set of Gold Valve emulators and a better choice of springs and oil would work wonders at the front and there are many shock options.

Pete

[kevdog3019]

Are we sure he's done nothing to that gearbox?

Or, conversely, that THEY didn't do something to the materials or design of the gearbox since the 80s?

Since '04 the SB gearboxes were upgraded in durability from the 80's gearboxes. The current box is pretty bulletproof. There have been 3 generation of SB gearboxes total. This newest is the 4th. Even if Milich upgraded some bits, I'm pretty certain it's no better for wear than the current boxes. That's a big "if" and to what extent he "can".

[Kev m]

Since '04 the SB gearboxes were upgraded in durability from the 80's gearboxes. The current box is pretty bulletproof. There have been 3 generation of SB gearboxes total. This newest is the 4th. Even if Milich upgraded some bits, I'm pretty certain it's no better for wear than the current boxes. That's a big "if" and to what extent he "can".

Maybe, but you're still making more assumptions there than I like.

And even if true, it's a small amount of data to "prove" the stoutness of the trans under higher hp applications.

[jas67]

Let's say Guzzi did a new head design that pulled 10-15hp. My feeling is most folks would be running down the street like NOW to their local Guzzi shop. Then in a year or two offered a 6 speed gearbox. WOO HOO... more folks running down the street. This is a little ass-backwards how it's being done IMHO. It just seems like there should be a REASON for a 6-speed box. Oh... so you accelerate better? Or... You are not revving so high on the freeway?  Yep... essentially helping this current engine. If this engine could use the help...

For ME, nothing about the V7II is compelling enough for me to upgrade from my 2013.     Now, if, in a couple of years,  the V7III comes out with 65-70 HP, w/o gaining any weight (the bike that is, not me), that might get me -- even though I'm perfectly happy with the output of the current motor.

[jas67]

I'm with Kev m.

My WAG is that they're upgrading the driveline ahead of the engine upgrade, so that the driveline can handle the additional power of the new engine.

Time will tell...

They could also be proving out the new transmission with the current power output, rather than unleashing a new transmission AND engine on unsuspecting buyers all at once.

[kevdog3019]

Maybe, but you're still making more assumptions there than I like.

And even if true, it's a small amount of data to "prove" the stoutness of the trans under higher hp applications.

It's easy to say "prove it", but I would say if there was ever an application it should be proven it is under the extremes he has taken it with high-test fuel and racing conditions. The fact he is winning also tells you he is running out front. This... all on an outdated box. How much proving does the factory do?  Extremes are paramount to proving something. I'm not saying it's the end-all but that it tells a story that's somewhat believable. The '04 box is superior in every way the 80's wasn't. Pretty certain he can't swap them out or trade parts. If he did, it doesn't disprove the box you have isn't capable of something extreme. Just one instance but compelling. I'd say the shaft is another issue but that's an easy fix I would think.

[Kev m]

In going to say the typical OEM has WAY more data than one vintage racer.

[kevdog3019]

In going to say the typical OEM has WAY more data than one vintage racer.

Like Guzzi's 4-valve heads, shift Pawls in the V11 gearboxes, hydraulic valves, CARC breathers, 8-valve re-calls,  8-valve V10 ECU's, on and on.  You have more trust in Guzzi's proving grounds than I do Kev. We seem to be their best testers IMO.

[bad Chad]

I just got back from a very spirited ride on an Aprilia  Shiver.   Wow, does it do things well.  750cc twin, that puts down a lot of hp, revs fast and flicks to what ever I want to do in an instant.  Great city bike, got caught in heavy traffic, and it almost made it tolerable!   

Doesn't have the looks and style of the v7 series, but for same price you get a motorcycle with a bit more capability.   

I'm not getting ride of any of my Guzzi's, but I wouldn't mind a Shiver in the garage to keep them company.

[Kev m]

Like Guzzi's 4-valve heads, shift Pawls in the V11 gearboxes, hydraulic valves, CARC breathers, 8-valve re-calls,  8-valve V10 ECU's, on and on.  You have more trust in Guzzi's proving grounds than I do Kev. We seem to be their best testers IMO.

Even if that's true they've got decades of warranty claim info on top of whatever testing was or was not done.

[Fangit]

I just got back from a very spirited ride on an Aprilia  Shiver.   Wow, does it do things well.  750cc twin, that puts down a lot of hp, revs fast and flicks to what ever I want to do in an instant.  Great city bike, got caught in heavy traffic, and it almost made it tolerable!   

Doesn't have the looks and style of the v7 series, but for same price you get a motorcycle with a bit more capability.   

I'm not getting ride of any of my Guzzi's, but I wouldn't mind a Shiver in the garage to keep them company.

I have a Shiver and yep it's a much more modern design than the Guzzis. 75-80 rwhp and does everything well. Still love the heck out of my 31 year old Guzzi though.

[AGRO!]

The 6 speed box just feels like a modern gear box.
If the V7 II came out with the 5 speed I would have bought the older model as I'm not a fan of electronics I like things to be simple but I decided on the v2 because I got the bike for the same discounted  price as the older model plus it has the 6 speed box.
As for wanting more HP for me I've had all the fast bikes and your just going to land yourself in jail with the way things are these days with cops and mobile speed camera's.
The little V7 goes heaps good enough as it is plus it is more fun using its low hp in the bends at least you can gas it right up without doing MK3 lol.
The V7 is a big seller for MG so its HP doesn't really seem to be a negative with sales?

[Kev m]

I have a Shiver and yep it's a much more modern design than the Guzzis. 75-80 rwhp and does everything well. Still love the heck out of my 31 year old Guzzi though.

I saw that post last night and thought DAMN - that's even more than the 696 Duc (and maybe 796). WOW, out of a 750. Hell, isn't that what my Breva 1100 was making?

The 6 speed box just feels like a modern gear box.
If the V7 II came out with the 5 speed I would have bought the older model as I'm not a fan of electronics I like things to be simple but I decided on the v2 because I got the bike for the same discounted  price as the older model plus it has the 6 speed box.
As for wanting more HP for me I've had all the fast bikes and your just going to land yourself in jail with the way things are these days with cops and mobile speed camera's.
The little V7 goes heaps good enough as it is plus it is more fun using its low hp in the bends at least you can gas it right up without doing MK3 lol.
The V7 is a big seller for MG so its HP doesn't really seem to be a negative with sales?

I COMPLETELY agree with what you're saying here.

I've been saying that I don't need more power for years. Hell, I just sold a 100 rwhp Buell so take that as evidence.

THAT SAID, I also recognize that a hp increase to make it more competitive (as long as it didn't impact the bike negatively in terms of cost, feel, maintenance, and perhaps even mpg too much) COULD BE A GAME CHANGER.

I could see that increasing sales to the point where the brand starts to get a better foot in the market, like Triumph with the neo-Bonnies a decade and a half ago.

[kevdog3019]

The incremental changes have made the V7-II a substantially better machine than the Breva 750, really. It also shits me to tears that people keep banging on about 'Power'. The Smallblock is what it is and it does what it does very nicely and in a charming way. You either *Get* that or you don't. If you don't? Well there are dozens of other motorbikes to choose from. Forget it's a 750. Swept volume means nothing really, especially in this day and age. Pretend it's a 250! Good grief! What is it with all these size obsessives?? And why would you want to stick a lot more power through an obsolete chassis? That would be asking for problems, along with the bevelbox which hasn't changed since dinosaurs ruled the earth.

As far as the suspension is concerned I'm sure a set of Gold Valve emulators and a better choice of springs and oil would work wonders at the front and there are many shock options.

Pete

I agree on the power thing and wonderful delivery of these current 750's.  Where I see Guzzi pulled a fast one (no pun intended) is when they labelled these mills "Racers".  Instead of putting lipstick on a pig like they did (no disrespect intended), this is the bike they should have put a 6 speed in first.  Something to differentiate it from the V7 line; and most racers have 6- speed tranny's!  My feeling is they should keep the current relaxed engine (which is a beauty when it comes to that) mated with a relaxed 5-speed tranny that I feel is still pretty wonderful and reliable, and make this the entry level 750 V7 (old school) bike with reduced price, make a V7 Sport with the 6 speed tranny (and higher output engine if they go there??), and a fancy Racer with rearsets, Ohlins, and such for real sporting fun that's actually reflected in the components.  I think people will pay for getting more no doubt, not just getting lipstick.  Keep the basic bike priced as low as possible.  If the basic bike doesn't sell well, do away with it.  

[jas67]

I saw that post last night and thought DAMN - that's even more than the 696 Duc (and maybe 796). WOW, out of a 750. Hell, isn't that what my Breva 1100 was making?

The Triumph 675 triple makes similar power (107 crank), as does the the Ducati Testrastretta 821 (Monster 821, Hypermotard), which is a little bigger, but, certainly in the same ballpark.

Now, all three of these engines are 4-valve/cylinder water-cooled engines, where the 696 and 796 (803cc) Ducati engines are 2-valve air-cooled.     The Ducati engines are impressive you when consider the SV650 and FZ07 twins of similar displacement and power as, actually a little less than, the Ducait motors are 4-valve water cooled engines.

[jas67]

I agree on the power thing and wonderful delivery of these current 750's.  Where I see Guzzi pulled a fast one (no pun intended) is when they labelled these mills "Racers".  Instead of putting lipstick on a pig like they did (no disrespect intended), this is the bike they should have put a 6 speed in first.  Something to differentiate it from the V7 line; and most racers have 6- speed tranny's!  My feeling is they should keep the current relaxed engine (which is a beauty when it comes to that) mated with a relaxed 5-speed tranny that I feel is still pretty wonderful and reliable, and make this the entry level 750 V7 (old school) bike with reduced price, make a V7 Sport with the 6 speed tranny (and higher output engine if they go there??), and a fancy Racer with rearsets, Ohlins, and such for real sporting fun that's actually reflected in the components.  I think people will pay for getting more no doubt, not just getting lipstick.  Keep the basic bike priced as low as possible.  If the basic bike doesn't sell well, do away with it.  

A proper cartridge fork with at least preload and damping adjustment would be nice to have on the Racer.  It wouldn't even have to be Ohlins, as that would make it too pricey.   I'm sure they could get something decent form Showa, WP, or one of the other suspension venders.
 

[jas67]

Yeah , surely the Showa big piston (no comments fellas ;D) forks can't be all that expensive .

  Dusty

Shurly there is a decent fork that doesn't cost what Ohlins costs.   Yes, it'll be more than the "Poverty Kit" (tm) suspension as Pete calls it.

[Cam3512]

Shurly there is a decent fork that doesn't cost what Ohlins costs.   Yes, it'll be more than the "Poverty Kit" (tm) suspension as Pete calls it.

Todd at GuzziTech can set you up with high end suspension front and back. Only takes $$$$! 

[steffen]

I don't expect the v7 to get better performance. Right now it fits into the A2 beginners driving license performance limit of 48 hp in most of Europe (EU to be exact).