U.S. Lawsuit against Screaming Eagle aftermarket parts, emissions

[chuck peterson]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-18/hog-slaughtered-harley-davidson-tumbles-after-us-accuses-it-evading-emissions-requir

Just caught doing what we know they are doing. Might be the beginnings of a controlled exhaust environment...

[rocker59]

They're just going after another OEM.  This won't affect individuals.

EPA does not want OEMs defeating emissions equipment.

[Wayne Orwig]

The comments show that I LOT of people out there hate motorcycles/Harley. Wow.

[oldbike54]

The comments show that I LOT of people out there hate motorcycles/Harley. Wow.

 It is the internet , don't pay too much attention .

 Dusty

[Rough Edge racing]

It is the internet , don't pay too much attention .

 Dusty

 Lots of Harley hate, there's even some on this site... Most who hate then have never ridden one..... I was told by a rider on a new Harley big twin my older Buell is a fake Harley..

[oldbike54]

Lots of Harley hate, there's even some on this site... Most who hate then have never ridden one..... I was told by a rider on a new Harley big twin my older Buell is a fake Harley..

 Well , the world is full of folks that must hate something , anything , to justify their existence . My point is , they don't represent a majority , or even a significant minority , they are simply loud obnoxious people that use the anonymity of the internet to voice their complaints . Frankly , in general folks just aggravate the hellouttame , but whaddaya gonna do ??

 Dusty

[ITSec]

The comments show that I LOT of people out there hate motorcycles/Harley. Wow.

Pretty obvious that website doesn't vet/verify users, and definitely doesn't moderate comments. More of a mob than a community...

As for the posted 'news' re HD, after the VW scandal (and the Mitsubishi scandal, and the Suzuki office raid!), who can be surprised if governments throughout the western world are coming down hard on any manufacturer that might be crossing the line?

[davevv]

Talk about a misleading headline.  Up to the minute quote shows the stock down $.84 to $53.64. All of a 1.54% change.

[ITSec]

Talk about a misleading headline.  Up to the minute quote shows the stock down $.84 to $53.64. All of a 1.54% change.

Look at the chart - it's down about $4 (i.e., 7% or more) with much greater trading volume over the past two or three days. Today's drop is only a small continuation of that.

[davevv]

Look at the chart - it's down about $4 (i.e., 7% or more) with much greater trading volume over the past two or three days. Today's drop is only a small continuation of that.

True, but if you look at the past 3 months chart, the low was $41.63 back near the end of June, so it's still up ~$10 from that point.  I was really just commenting about the "sky is falling" headline.

[wahoo650]

Stock drop is mostly due to sales are down, and the models selling have a smaller margin.

[charlie b]

What does it mean?

HD dealers won't be able to install aftermarket stuff that affects emissions.

Results possible.  Aftermarket suppliers to HD will take a hit.  Independent HD shops will see an increase in business.  HD dealers will lose some profit on all those parts they used to sell.  HD service departments will have a lot less work.  Less HD sales cause people can't get 'such and such' installed on their bike when they buy it.

If I were someone to take advantage of such, I'd find a huge HD dealer, arrange with them to set up a shop next door.  Install any aftermarket parts desired.  Might be able to do this and be paid by the dealer so the buyer can put the whole purchase price on his loan with HD.  That might not be possible depending on how lawsuit agreements are worded.  Would have to consult a lawyer to see how to best "bundle" the price to the customer.

[Matteo]

It is the internet , don't pay too much attention .

 Dusty

So is this😎

[oldbike54]

So is this😎

 No worries , doubt if anyone is paying too much attention here 

 Dusty

[atavar]

Personally I hope an aftereffect is that straight pipes will become unobtanium..  but that's just me..

[Wayne Orwig]

What does it mean?

HD dealers won't be able to install aftermarket stuff that affects emissions.

I have to wonder.....I have not data on this, but....

For years I had heard that HD made most of their profits off of accessories. It was implied that meant t-shirt, etc.
Maybe those profits were on flatulent pipes and smog making accessories.

I know personally that long ago when you ordered a new HD, the shop automatically included Screaming Eagle flatulent pipes with your new bike, and you had no choice.

[oldbike54]

I have to wonder.....I have not data on this, but....

For years I had heard that HD made most of their profits off of accessories. It was implied that meant t-shirt, etc.
Maybe those profits were on flatulent pipes and smog making accessories.

I know personally that long ago when you ordered a new HD, the shop automatically included Screaming Eagle flatulent pipes with your new bike, and you had no choice.

  Yes large profits in accessories and Motor clothes , but not the primary profit maker . Never heard the "pipes" thing before , sounds fishy .

 Dusty

[John Ulrich]

The only "hating" the public has is sitting at an outdoor patio with friends and having a motorcycle come by with loud obnoxious exhaust.

[swooshdave]

Triumph and Arrow should be crapping their pants right about now. Triumph also sells Triumph branded "Off Road Only" exhausts, wink, wink, nod, nod...

[atavar]

The only "hating" the public has is sitting at an outdoor patio with friends and having a motorcycle come by with loud obnoxious exhaust.

I admit I join the hating crowd when I am sitting in my basement watching a movie and I have to pause to wait for the guy with the obnoxious pipes to pass by.  If I was quicker I would run out and chase some of em down. 

[B24LongRangers]

I hope this develops further to ridding the country of the obnoxious loud pipes.

[rocker59]

I have to wonder.....I have not data on this, but....

For years I had heard that HD made most of their profits off of accessories. It was implied that meant t-shirt, etc.
Maybe those profits were on flatulent pipes and smog making accessories.

I know personally that long ago when you ordered a new HD, the shop automatically included Screaming Eagle flatulent pipes with your new bike, and you had no choice.

That rumor has circulated for years among the HD hater crowd.

HD is a publicly traded company and this info is readily available.

Last time I looked, MotorClothes was a $1B piece of the action, while motorcycles were something like $3B.

Clothing and lifestyle accessories are an important part of the business, but only a peripheral one.

HD is about motorcycles.

[Adk.IBO]

Personally I hope an aftereffect is that straight pipes will become unobtanium..  but that's just me..

Agreed. I've been saying for years: loud pipes don't save lives, they just annoy people. My wife and I were in a small shop in Lake Placid some years ago, 4 or 5 Harley's backed up to the curb when we went in. We were having a discussion about what to get our grandson, next thing ya know we couldn't hear ourselves think much less converse. It'd be one thing if they fired 'em up and rode away, but nooo, they had to sit there revving them for what seemed like five minutes. At one point my wife grabbed me by the shoulder as I was headed out the door... And I like internal combusted horsepower as much as anyone, but I don't believe in inflicting it on those who don't have an appreciation for it. Wanna be heard on the road? Pay attention and lay on your air horn at the appropriate time when someone needs to be woke up! Or be ready to grab a bunch of good brakes cuz no matter how much noise ya make they still won't see ya!

[atavar]

I wonder what percentage of pipes out there are "Off Road Only"?  I would suspect that in the cruiser and crotch rocket crowds it is approaching if not over half.
I know if my truck were that loud I would be getting tickets every time I went out.

[rocker59]

I hope this develops further to ridding the country of the obnoxious loud pipes.

That plan would require Federal enforcement of EPA regs at a consumer level.  Not gonna happen anytime soon.

EPA/DOT/etc. regulate what companies sell to consumers.  They don't regulate what consumers do with the product.

Consumer regulations fall to The States, some of which do check for EPA/DOT compliance to various degrees.

Many don't.  And many won't. 

Local example:  my town has a noise ordinance.  It's basically unenforced throughout the year.  And, is actually put on pause for a week during our big "Bikes, Blues, & BBQ" rally each September.  I (and many locals) usually leave town for someplace quiet.

[rodekyll]

No worries , doubt if anyone is paying too much attention here 

 Dusty

I think the Russians disagree.

[redrider90]

Personally I hope an aftereffect is that straight pipes will become unobtanium..  but that's just me..

Bump   

[redrider90]

  Yes large profits in accessories and Motor clothes , but not the primary profit maker . Never heard the "pipes" thing before , sounds fishy .

 Dusty

Much better article on Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-harley-davidson-lawsuit-idUSKCN10T1JP

 The have sold 340,000 super tuners in 8 years. This is not chump change. and HOG has to buy back from dealers all remaining product on the shelves.
"The settlement resolves government allegations that Harley sold roughly 340,000 "super tuners" enabling motorcycles since 2008 to pollute the air at levels greater than what the Milwaukee-based company certified to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency."

[Charles in Lake Charles]

From Fortune: Harley-Davidson agreed to pay a $12 million civil fine and stop selling illegal after-market devices that cause its motorcycles to emit too much pollution, the U.S. Justice Department said on Thursday.

The settlement resolves government allegations that Harley sold roughly 340,000 �super tuners� enabling motorcycles since 2008 to pollute the air at levels greater than what the Milwaukee-based company certified to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

According to the government, the sale of such �defeat devices� violates the federal Clean Air Act. Harley was also accused of selling more than 12,600 motorcycles that were not covered by an EPA certification governing clean air compliance.

[pete roper]

I hope this develops further to ridding the country of the obnoxious loud pipes.

Play stupid, (And non performance enhancing!) games? Win stupid prizes?

QED.