V-twin (Guzzi) vs Flat-twin (BMW)

[Nic in Western NYS]

Put more miles on my BMW RT than on any other bike.  Most smiles per mile was the Sport 1100, followed/tied by the Duc ST4s.  The RT was the least soul moving of any bike I've had.

[wirespokes]

I've had beemers ever since 1990, mostly the airheads from 70 to 95. But I did venture into the newer style with a 1999 R1100S - the sport version. As already mentioned, the newer BMWs are good bikes, tools for the job. Refrigerators are nice to have, but how attached do you get to one of them? The older BMWs have much more soul than the newer ones. The newer ones are also more expensive to keep up and more delicate.

When I got the Guzzi this summer (T3 with SS exhaust) I thought it was as loud as a Harley with straight pipes. I'm so used to how quiet the beemer is, the Guzzi just seemed way loud. Funny thing, though, is my neighbor (without any lead in) originated how quite the bike is. My GF said the same thing. And I was at a stop light and the guy in the PU next to me gave me the thumbs up and mentioned how quite it was.

So I guess it's me.

I don't know how many of you have seen this, but I think it's spot on:

BMWs are like the Hot German Scientist chick. Glasses, prim, mannered, efficient. She can solve quadratic equations while kicking your ass with kung-fu moves. You have to approach her on her terms and then she will bring you ecstasy in the most efficient manner possible using techniques she learned from an ancient Kama Sutra she discovered on a sabbatical in India.

Guzzis on the other hand, are the art school wild child. long, wind-tossed hair and mischievous winks. She will redecorate your house into a turkish harem while you are away on a business trip and greet you with absinthe tainted kisses. You will go out for pizza with her and wind up somewhere in the Mojave, tequila drunk and shooting cactus with a stolen pistol.

[Bulldog9]

One of my riding buddies has a R1200r it always sounded like a sewing machine with the stock exhaust, like most beemers  do to me. He paid close to $1000.00 for an Akrapovic slip on and it still didn't sound as nice as my 2 valve 07  Norge.  And while I have grown to accept the somewhat wimpy sound of my Norge,I often wish my Norge could sound more like my stock 03 EV without putting money into it.  But honestly , I still really like the  deep throaty sound when I grab a hand full of throttle of my 1979 Yamaha XS 750 Special with stock exhaust and K&N air cleaners , to each his own. 
Never had a Beemer, never really wanted one.

I have a 78 XS750 Triple, and it is a nice motor especially down low, and has a surprising growl that is somewhat 'Guzzish'  *if memory serves it is in storage*.  I've also had a 79XS1100 since 1984. Put 127K miles on it, never opened the case, checked valves once, bike is almost all stock.  Had many bikes over the years, a couple BMW's, but mostly Japanese inline 4's. My XS11 is like part of my soul, and in all the years and bikes since, only the Griso has made such a connection.

Am a recent convert to Guzzi, traded my FJR for a Griso because I had been riding so little, was bored with teh FJR, and thought I was 'over riding' so I figured I would downsize get a fun fair weather day trip bike. I saw the Griso on CL rode it and bought it, done deal....  Within a month I was riding so much and the 'LOVE" was back I knew I needed another ST, so went and bought my Norge. I think I have ridden over 8000 miles since April...........  Like any motorcycle enthusiast, I knew about Guzzi, admired Guzzi, but never had the chance, time or opportunity to see, sit on, nevermind ride a Guzzi until that Griso test ride.  It took a little time to adjust to the drop in power over the FJR, but the rest of the experience is unparallelled IMO.

Now when it comes to BMW, I've tried them all, and other than the 1000RR series, just always felt blaaaaa..... too cold, no passion, or character. Better than a Honda, and not 'soulless', just a boring polished refined 3 piece business suit and wingtips soul.

[Chuck in Indiana]

The RT was the least soul moving of any bike I've had.

<shrug> I rest my case, Dusty.. 

[oldbike54]

Put more miles on my BMW RT than on any other bike.  Most smiles per mile was the Sport 1100, followed/tied by the Duc ST4s.  The RT was the least soul moving of any bike I've had.

 

<shrug> I rest my case, Dusty.. 

 Except for some reason Nic put the most miles on that boring RT 

 Dusty

[Huzo]

I've had beemers ever since 1990, mostly the airheads from 70 to 95. But I did venture into the newer style with a 1999 R1100S - the sport version. As already mentioned, the newer BMWs are good bikes, tools for the job. Refrigerators are nice to have, but how attached do you get to one of them? The older BMWs have much more soul than the newer ones. The newer ones are also more expensive to keep up and more delicate.

When I got the Guzzi this summer (T3 with SS exhaust) I thought it was as loud as a Harley with straight pipes. I'm so used to how quiet the beemer is, the Guzzi just seemed way loud. Funny thing, though, is my neighbor (without any lead in) originated how quite the bike is. My GF said the same thing. And I was at a stop light and the guy in the PU next to me gave me the thumbs up and mentioned how quite it was.

So I guess it's me.

I don't know how many of you have seen this, but I think it's spot on:

BMWs are like the Hot German Scientist chick. Glasses, prim, mannered, efficient. She can solve quadratic equations while kicking your ass with kung-fu moves. You have to approach her on her terms and then she will bring you ecstasy in the most efficient manner possible using techniques she learned from an ancient Kama Sutra she discovered on a sabbatical in India.

Guzzis on the other hand, are the art school wild child. long, wind-tossed hair and mischievous winks. She will redecorate your house into a turkish harem while you are away on a business trip and greet you with absinthe tainted kisses. You will go out for pizza with her and wind up somewhere in the Mojave, tequila drunk and shooting cactus with a stolen pistol.

Hope to hear more from you.

[Cool Runnings]

The Norge 8V is a narcissist dream come true. All kinds of people smile and wave at me when riding (not just other bikers). I've never experienced this kind of admiration while on a scoot. I'm absolutely in love with this bike.

The only thing it's lacking is cruise control.

[Penderic]

Good comments at this thread too.

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/bmw_r90_moto_guzzi_850t3_comparison.html

[Chuck in Indiana]

Unquestionably, people preferred the Moto Guzzi T3 to a BMW /6 Boxer. 66% voted for the Italian; almost twice as many as chose the BMW.

<shrug>

[Gliderjohn]

Quote from Cool Runnings:

The Norge 8V is a narcissist dream come true. All kinds of people smile and wave at me when riding (not just other bikers). I've never experienced this kind of admiration while on a scoot. I'm absolutely in love with this bike.

The only thing it's lacking is cruise control.

 :1: Especially in Kansas.
GliderJohn

[Bulldog9]

The Norge 8V is a narcissist dream come true. All kinds of people smile and wave at me when riding (not just other bikers). I've never experienced this kind of admiration while on a scoot. I'm absolutely in love with this bike.

The only thing it's lacking is cruise control.

Maybe a Narcissist's fantasy too??    IMO the Norge is virtually Invisible and blends as a generic ST ride. Beautiful and unique, but hardly an attention getter.  The GRiSO is another story.  Perhaps a regional or color thing? 

[Gliderjohn]

Yea, my T-3 gets way more attention than the Norge. And when the Norge does get attention it is Usually "nice BMW". 
GliderJohn

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yea, my T-3 gets way more attention than the Norge. And when the Norge does get attention it is Usually "nice BMW". 
GliderJohn

Actually, my red 07 Norge seemed to be more of an attention getter than most of the bikes I've had.. for whatever reason. Doesn't matter a bit to me. I ride what I like. 

[Nic in Western NYS]

 Except for some reason Nic put the most miles on that boring RT 

 Dusty

Riding is better than driving whenever possible.  The RT was the go-to bike for long trips, for below freezing, and when the rain could be bad.  Very useful and I enjoyed it. But you were asking for a comparison with a Guzzi..that's a high bar.  I love the v-twins pulse and roar.  I don't know about soul, they're all machines, but the RT was sort of surgical rather than sensual.

[oldbike54]

Riding is better than driving whenever possible.  The RT was the go-to bike for long trips, for below freezing, and when the rain could be bad.  Very useful and I enjoyed it. But you were asking for a comparison with a Guzzi..that's a high bar.  I love the v-twins pulse and roar.  I don't know about soul, they're all machines, but the RT was sort of surgical rather than sensual.

 Nic , they both have their place . I've ridden both a lot of miles , and truly enjoyed both experiences.

 Dusty

[jas67]

[Cool Runnings]

LoL 

[Tom]

I like the R90S and the R100RT.  Both because of the body work.

[wirespokes]

I've gotten compliments on other bikes, but nothing like this Black 77 T3 with SS pipes and the black V7S tank. This is my first Guzzi (not counting the basket case I got two years ago) and haven't ridden the other bikes (beemers - R100 GSPD, RS, R65LS etc) since I got it earlier this summer. I wish I'd had a test ride years ago. 

[Testarossa]

Another flat twin.  Met this rig at Costco last week, ridden by the guy in the blue shirt who admired the Mille and said he had a Le Mans I when he lived in Paris. Note two weeks of groceries in the hack.

[Huzo]

Actually, my red 07 Norge seemed to be more of an attention getter than most of the bikes I've had.. for whatever reason. Doesn't matter a bit to me. I ride what I like. 

Yeah Chuck, mine's a red '07 and I reckon you're right. Only my MV Agusta F4 got the same type of responses but I reckon they're all good if you love them. Although I'm more of a fan of mine since I did the wire wheels.

[Huzo]

Ninja 250 and 300 also have 180 degree cranks.  It makes them sound like Hondas, at least up to about 10,000 RPM.  Since the redline is at 14,000, they sort of run out of the Honda sound up there.   

Is that right about the old CB 200 having 180 deg crank throws?  Does the give an off beat  idle due to what would be un in even firing interval ?

[jas67]

Is that right about the old CB 200 having 180 deg crank throws?  Does the give an off beat  idle due to what would be un in even firing interval ?

No, see my previous post (reply #27) in this thread. 
CB200 has a 360 degree crank, just like the CB175 and CB160 that preceded it.   All of the under 200cc parallel twins of the 60's had 360 degree cranks, as did the 250cc and 305cc Dreams (C77, CA77).

Honda models of the era with 180 cranks:
CB72 (250 Hawk)
CL72 (250 Scrambler)
CB77 (305 Super Hawk)
CL77 (305 Scrambler)
All of their parallel twins 325cc and larger (CB350, CL350, CB360, CL360, CB450, CL450, CB500T).

Later Hondas with a 360 crank include the 250 Nighthawk, and 250 Rebel.   I'm not sure about the 400 Hawk and 450cc versions of the Nighthawk and Rebel, but, if any of them have a single carb, then, they've got 360 cranks.

[Sheepdog]

JAS67: it took me a while to find it, but I finally did...and you are correct about the smaller Honda Twins (embarrassing, as I had a '67 CB-160). Dumb assumption, as usual; I knew the 350 through 500 twins were 180s and figured it carried into the smaller twins. One thing is for sure: my CB-160 didn't sound anything like a Bonneville...

[Huzo]

Did those old 180 cranks have evenly spaced firing intervals ? I can understand in a two stroke with a power pulse every 180 deg, but how did they do it with a four stroke given that there is an exhaust stroke every second one ?

[ChuckH]

....I don't know about soul, they're all machines, but the RT (BMW) was sort of surgical rather than sensual.

A good way of stating the difference. 

I rode a '12 Stelvio for three years (32K Miles) and enjoyed it thoroughly.  However, it was feeling a bit heavy when loaded (I'm getting weaker) and I didn't want to drop it.  I sold it and about a year ago bought an '07 R1200R, since it is 100# lighter.  This is my fifth Beemer, previously owned were R100RT, R1100RT, K75T, K1100LT.

I've now got 10K miles on this latest bike.  It's smooth and quiet and doesn't give the mechanical vibes through the h'bars like the Stevio.  It is more like riding a sewing machine.  However, for my riding needs (long distance touring and camping trips), it is more than adequate.  I fitted the Rostra Electronic Cruise Control from the Stelvio to this bike, so long trips on the I-States or high speed two-lane roads are very relaxing.

Unfortunately, Guzzi does not have a bike that is lighter than the Stelvio and fits my riding needs.  My body is not comfortable in the cruiser bike riding position and the V7 and V7II are just too small. 

Ride safe.   

[Triple Jim]

Did those old 180 cranks have evenly spaced firing intervals ? I can understand in a two stroke with a power pulse every 180 deg, but how did they do it with a four stroke given that there is an exhaust stroke every second one ?

Both pistons reach TDC at the same time, and the engine alternates which one fires at each TDC, so one fires each 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation.

[oldbike54]

Both pistons reach TDC at the same time, and the engine alternates which one fires at each TDC, so one fires each 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation.

 Uh Jim , you might want to rethink that 

 Dusty

[Triple Jim]

I don't need to, as long as  you know I thought Huzo was asking about a BMW, which interestingly has a 180 degree crank and even firing.   

Huzo, the 180 degree parallel twins fire very unevenly, 180 then 540, etc..  That's the way my Ninja 250 fires.  dit-dit..........dit-dit...........dit-dit........

[oldbike54]

I don't need to, as long as  you know I thought Huzo was asking about a BMW, which interestingly has a 180 degree crank and even firing.   

Huzo, the 180 degree parallel twins fire very unevenly, 180 then 540, etc..  That's the way my Ninja 250 fires.  dit-dit..........dit-dit...........dit-dit........

 I may have missed something , technically a boxer motor is a a 180 degree twin with a crankshaft that effectively mimics a 360 degree twin because both pistons move in and out together . Different from a 180 degree vertical twin . I think Huzo was referring to a vert twin with a 180 degree crank .

 Dusty