cant find it anywhere now that I am doing it. Torque for v7ii head bolts

[benebob]

I thought I bookmarked it but didn't and can't get torque specs for doing the head gasket reset for the 600 mile service.  Also, Valves are .2 and .15 right?  Got the fluids draining today.  Tons of water in the back oil sump bolt, tranny looked pretty good but the rear dif was so grey it was nearly black.  Granted the fluids have been in for 3 plus years as it is a nos 16. 

[guzzisteve]

Here ya go, everything you need to know----

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_v7-ii-abs_en.pdf

[Kiwi Dave]

Also, Valves are .2 and .15 right?

Intake: 0.15 mm (0.0059 in) (when cold)
Outlet: 0.20 mm (0.0079 in) (when cold)

Were you specifying outlet/intake or intake/outlet?

[benebob]

Here ya go, everything you need to know----

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_v7-ii-abs_en.pdf

I downloaded that useless thing months ago.  I see zero information about anything regarding the engine in it aside from the same maint. things that come in the tiny little pocket manual Guzzi gives with the bike.  Anybody have the torque specs?

[Kev m]

I downloaded that useless thing months ago.  I see zero information about anything regarding the engine in it aside from the same maint. things that come in the tiny little pocket manual Guzzi gives with the bike.  Anybody have the torque specs?

Lighten up Francis...

I see you're new to European motor vehicles.

Here's how things work across the pond.

They write a workshop manual when a vehicle is designed.

Then every few years when it's changed sufficiently they write a supplement of some kind.

If it changes enough they might write an all new one, but ours more likely you need a couple of versions to cover any given model.

IIRC the MKI V7 models used 2-3 different manuals for full coverage.

I kinda suspect most of the motor is covered in an earlier version and that you're looking at is coverage of what of the V7II is different from the MkI.

[Kev m]

PS, here are some notes I had on the MkI from GuzziSteve:

      Head  bolts should be backed off 1/8-1/4 turn before re-torque, and I go to 33ftlbs on the 4 big ones and 23ftlbs.  When you back them off you may hear them pop a bit, that is normal. I have seen them leak at 30-32ftlbs.
     

Oil filter cover oring clean up and I use Dow Corning Molykote #55 O-Ring grease and put it back on cover facing the same way you took it off, cause one side will have a flat and one side will have an angle on it. You won't need a new one for 25Kmi. The crush washer on the main bolt through the cover will mash up if you torque it to 18ftlbs, I go 11 or 12ftlbs and haven't had one leak. If you look at the crush washer it is still flat from factory, they don't tighten them tight either. The older SB's had thicker crush washers to take 25nm, not now days.

[pyoungbl]

Kev, didn't Guzzi switch to an all metal head gasket for the V7ii or V7iii and then eliminate the 600 mile re-torque spec?  My bike is a 2013 (like yours) and still had the re-torque listed but I recall that later bikes no longer required that.  Maybe Steve or Pete R. can add some info here.

Peter Y.

[Kiwi Dave]

The V7-III got the hemispherical head, with the extra horsepower.  I imagine this is when the all metal head gasket was introduced.

According to my notes, the V7-II already had TC & ABS and the new six speed gearbox.

[Kev m]

Kev, didn't Guzzi switch to an all metal head gasket for the V7ii or V7iii and then eliminate the 600 mile re-torque spec?  My bike is a 2013 (like yours) and still had the re-torque listed but I recall that later bikes no longer required that.  Maybe Steve or Pete R. can add some info here.

Peter Y.

They made the change first with the V9 and then V7III Hemi head.

[benebob]

Lighten up Francis...

I see you're new to European motor vehicles.

Nof at all, I have 4 Brits in the driveway and they well know how to write a service manual that actually provides service information and specs.   Heck even my TVR has a better FSM than the guzzi and it was built in a garage. :)   So  now I've seen 3 different specs. on the internet.  The ones from Steve posted here by Kev are higher then any of the other ones. 

Now when Kev says 33 on the 4 big ones and 23 on ...  I am assuming he means 33 on the two allens and the 2 nuts on the rockers right?  The 23 is the 1 nut on the inner side of the cylinder.  Everything I read said there were 6 bolts.  I only count 5 on the pic below.    As for the crush washer on the oil filter bolt.  I don't have one.  There wasn't one on there nor did the dealer give me one when I bought the stuff for the service.  Freaking stupedous!  I sat there looking at the set up and was floored by the whole set up and was shocked it was held in place by a bolt with no o-ring, no crush washer, not even a paper gasket. So I put it back together the way the factory built the thing.  Anyone with a ii that doesn't have a washer on the filter bolt?  The manual doesn't say there is a washer there.    :) 

[Kev m]

Ha ha, ok let me dig further in my notes tomorrow morning.

I haven't done this on my own bike since 2013ish.

I just happened to have those notes in my PMs.

Yeah British stuff is sorta it's own thing...

I'll get back to ya.

[benebob]

Ha ha, ok let me dig further in my notes tomorrow morning.

I haven't done this on my own bike since 2013ish.

I just happened to have those notes in my PMs.

Yeah British stuff is sorta it's own thing...

I'll get back to ya.

I have no choice but to do it myself.  I lack any faith in anyone who says they are a guzzi dealer after my lovely experience in my first 3 months of ownership.  Besides, I've never taken a bike to a dealer for service in my life bot without a usable FSM I might as well park it on the street with a free sign and the keys in it. 

[Kev m]

Here's a link to a thread about what I did.

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=60261.0;wap

I realize now newer posters might not have a reason to accept GuzziSteve or Roper/Vasgo for their extensive experience.

I have no reason to doubt their experiences here.

Oh, looks like 4 large and one small fastener right.

I don't know where 6 came into the conversation.

[Kev m]

I  bot without a usable FSM I might as well park it on the street with a free sign and the keys in it.

Woah, easy there with the mellow-drama, you met Peraz? Cousins maybe?!?

You'll be fine. Manuals are just guides, most aren't perfect.

[sign216]

 I wrote this up for the old style V7.  Might be useful for the new ones too.

Joe

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157627672086548 

[redhawk47]

V7II head bolts are to be re-torqued at first service. Spec for V7III doesn't call for re-torque.
Torque specs from V7II Engine manual - name of cover: SERVICE STATION MANUAL B043109




You probably cannot read this jpg so here are the details. Quantities on the chart are per engine; the following quantities are per head:
#4 & #5, nuts and column nuts, 2 of each: pre-tighten 25Nm )18.5 lb ft), Tightening 42 Nm (31 lb ft)
#6 nut, qty 1, 28 Nm (20.6 lb ft)
#7 screw, qty 2, and #8 screw, qty 4, 8-10 Nm (6-7,4 lb ft)

Dan

[pete roper]

The V7-II's were the last of the heron head motors and the last to use kingerlite head gaskets. After them the hemi head models went to steel laminate gaskets principally for emission reduction but a side benefit is that a re-torque is no longer required after heat cycling.

Torque figures and practices are in line with ISO guidelines so they are easy and simple to find and follow. Getting all het up and having a sook because you can't instantly find the exact thing you are looking for in the format you want is very childish.

Steve's figures are about 1ft/lb above what I would usually use but any such minor discrepancy is easily accounted for by differences in the tools used, thread lubrication or even temperature! In my experience if you are going to do anything *different* to book I'd go up a couple of ft/lbs on the four main studs and down one or two from the ISO 22ft/lbs of the 8mm one.

Pete

Pete

[benebob]

V7II head bolts are to be re-torqued at first service. Spec for V7III doesn't call for re-torque.
Torque specs from V7II Engine manual - name of cover: SERVICE STATION MANUAL B043109




You probably cannot read this jpg so here are the details. Quantities on the chart are per engine; the following quantities are per head:
#4 & #5, nuts and column nuts, 2 of each: pre-tighten 25Nm )18.5 lb ft), Tightening 42 Nm (31 lb ft)
#6 nut, qty 1, 28 Nm (20.6 lb ft)
#7 screw, qty 2, and #8 screw, qty 4, 8-10 Nm (6-7,4 lb ft)

Dan
[/quote

Thanks Dan, that is exactly what I need.  Now tell me more about this manual you speak of.  Did a search of it and that comes back as 2013-15, mine is a 16.  It only makes sense that if it was the same for 16 it would say so on the sites but maybe I'm just expecting too much like an actual engine manual that I know covers the year bike I have :) 

[Kev m]

Thanks Dan, that is exactly what I need.  Now tell me more about this manual you speak of.  Did a search of it and that comes back as 2013-15, mine is a 16.  It only makes sense that if it was the same for 16 it would say so on the sites but maybe I'm just expecting too much like an actual engine manual that I know covers the year bike I have :)

Please see last night's sarcastic comments about EU vehicles (exc British).

Also, please see AF1's OWN website:

https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=75610

OEM Moto Guzzi Svc Station Manual V7 II ABS (Manual-2Q000105)


*Please note: This manual does not cover engine internals. Moto Guzzi never released a specific engine manual for V7 II's. To obtain engine internal servicing information it would be necessary to purchase both the '13-'15 V7 Engine Manual and the V7 III Engine Manual.

Though the V7III note surprises me. Maybe that's for the 6-speed?

[Chuck in Indiana]

maybe I'm just expecting too much like an actual engine manual that I know covers the year bike I have :) 

You haven't been around Guzzi long, have ya, pardner?  Take *anything* you find in a Guzzi manual with a grain of salt.. including torque specs. Steve or Pete won't lead you astray.
From memory  take all five head nuts to the final torque of the small one, then tighten the 4 big ones to their final torque.

[benebob]

Please see last night's sarcastic comments about EU vehicles (exc British).

Also, please see AF1's OWN website:

https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=75610

Though the V7III note surprises me. Maybe that's for the 6-speed?

Again more of the info I was looking for.  Thanks!!!  I've found most of the guzzi parts sites to be quite annoying.  Used to clear parts diagrams and such.  The dealers I have been to I got about as much confidence in getting things right as I do going into Autozone and asking for a oil filter for my TVR with the part number in hand but having the guy insist he needs the year make and model to look it up.  :)  From my limited understanding the internals of the V7ii are somewhat different then the earlier ones as I believe the 6 speed, more common bike style clutch and I've read something about the alt being wet now so I don't plan on turning the motor there but rather via the rear wheel in 6th gear.  Being unfamilar with the bike and engine type even I am more apt to want to read up on the service prior to doing it so I tend to like the manual.  Of course the dealers I have been to said there was nothing available for the engine.  Off to torque some heads and adjust valves now that the garage is at least in the 40s temp wise. 

[Kev m]

From my limited understanding the internals of the V7ii are somewhat different then the earlier ones as I believe the 6 speed, more common bike style clutch and I've read something about the alt being wet now so I don't plan on turning the motor there but rather via the rear wheel in 6th gear. 

I THINK the only internal differences between the Mk 1.5 and Mk II are in the transmission, but I can't be 100% sure.

FWIW the wet alternator started in Mk 1.5 (2015 in the US) and has continued through the II and III.

So yeah you have to spin the rear wheel to check valves. Not quite as convenient, but not bad. I'll be doing that with our III soon.

If there's a clutch difference that escaped me.

[redhawk47]

I think AF1 reference to the V7III engine manual is a typo and should be V7II. However, contrary to what AF1 says, my manual has the complete tear down and assembly of the engine and transmission (and mentions that the transmission may be 5 or 6 speed).

The manual I referenced is also labeled "Engine V750 IE MIU G3". Copyright date is 2015 which is the year the V7II was first sold in Europe. I agree with Kev that the engine is probably the same as the wet alternator V7 engine.

I don't remember where I got the manual; I think my dealer gave it to me. "This Old Tractor" doesn't have the recent V7 manuals, but they do have the V85TT manuals.

Dan

[Tom H]

Try these from Cadre Cycle.
https://cadrecycle.com/manuals/technical/Engine%20V750%20IE.pdf
https://cadrecycle.com/manuals/technical/Engine%20V750%20IE%20MIU%20G3.pdf
https://cadrecycle.com/manuals/technical/V7%20II%20ABS.pdf
https://cadrecycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/V7III-tech-manual_EN.pdf

The first engine manual has the torque specs.

I noticed that the oil filter bolt does not use a washer, at least in the picture I saw. Does the bolt have a built in O ring type of seal?

Hopefully these will help.
Tom

[benebob]

I noticed that the oil filter bolt does not use a washer, at least in the picture I saw. Does the bolt have a built in O ring type of seal?

Hopefully these will help.
Tom

No it has a littlb bit of some "centering  bulge at the head but nothing to seal it.  Seemed quite odd to me that made me check again to see if the washer fell out but looking in the pic in the manual I have nothing pictured there. 

Will have a look at these.  All done aside from torquing down the valve covers and spark plugs.  All my valves were very much on the tight side of things after doing the heads (granted I didn't do the small bolt on top as I have nothing that fits in there to get at it.  All the sockets are too big.  Guess there is a special tool they use for it.

[Kev m]

Try these from Cadre Cycle.
https://cadrecycle.com/manuals/technical/Engine%20V750%20IE.pdf
https://cadrecycle.com/manuals/technical/Engine%20V750%20IE%20MIU%20G3.pdf
https://cadrecycle.com/manuals/technical/V7%20II%20ABS.pdf
https://cadrecycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/V7III-tech-manual_EN.pdf

The first engine manual has the torque specs.

I noticed that the oil filter bolt does not use a washer, at least in the picture I saw. Does the bolt have a built in O ring type of seal?

Hopefully these will help.
Tom

The AF1 Racing website 2016 V7 II Stone ABS exploded view shows the washer - "23 GU12154200 Gasket 8,25x15x1" - look at Crankcase - keylist #23

https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=2914&description=2016+V7+Stone+II+OEM+Parts+Catalog

same on the 2016 V7 II Special ABS

https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=2929&description=2016+V7+Special+II+OEM+Parts+Catalog

and same on Stornello

https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=2997&description=2016+V7+II+Stornello+OEM+Parts+Catalog


And for giggles I checked my V7III Dark -

https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=3202&description=V7+III+Carbon+Dark+OEM+Parts+Catalog

It's under Lubrication but it's there:

2 GU12154200 Gasket 8,25x15x1 1


< shrugs >

[Kev m]

All my valves were very much on the tight side of things after doing the heads (granted I didn't do the small bolt on top as I have nothing that fits in there to get at it.  All the sockets are too big.  Guess there is a special tool they use for it.

I don't recall having any problems but I've got a variety including some pretty low profile metric 6-pt Snap-Ons which are usually my go to anyway.

[redhawk47]

Regarding sparkplug installation. I had a list of torque specs some had compiled for Stelvios; I had one at the time. Listed torque for the plugs was 30 Nm. Installed the first plug; seemed to be a lot of torque. Installed the second plug -- it broke! I now had a threaded insert in my cylinder head. Fortunately my buddy had an easy-out and an extension; the part of the plug screwed right out. Consulting the NGK website I learned that the proper torque is 10 Nm; also, do not use anti-seize on the plugs -- the threads are plated to prevent seizing and anti-seize will mess with it.
I removed the over-torqued plug and put it in my travel kit for emergencies. Bought another pair of plugs. I later found a MG manual that listed the plug torque at 30 Nm - BAD!
Proper plug torque for V7 plugs is 10 Nm.

Dan

[Kev m]

IIRC think Jay broke the oil filter trap door on an oil change for his first V7C when it was already sold and he was changing the oil for the new owner who was going to pick up the bike that weekend. I dumped the oil on my then brand new Stone early to give him the trap door so he could install it and finish delivering the bike to the new owner and we installed a replacement.

Anyway, the moral of the story is - take Guzzi torque specs with a grain of salt / only use them in critical and double-checked applications.

[redrider90]

Lighten up Francis...



Here's how things work across the pond.

They write a workshop manual when a vehicle is designed.

Then every few years when it's changed sufficiently they write a supplement of some kind.

If it changes enough they might write an all new one, but ours more likely you need a couple of versions to cover any given model.

My 90 Mille came with an 850 T5 manual. I think the last T5s were made in 86? So that made my manual 4 years old on a new bike. That's how things work across the pond.