What all is involved (read: How crazy would I have to be) to do my own clutch?

[normzone]

In my fantasy, I just:
Unplug the drive line from the gearbox
Remove the exhaust pipes
Remove the motor mount bolts
Move the engine forwards a little and tip it down
Unbolt and remove the gearbox
Replace clutch parts as appropriate
Re-assembly is the reverse order of the steps above

It cannot be that simple ... How many hours labor should I expect a shop to want?

As always, thanks for any/all input, commentary, advice, counsel, snarky comments - [normzone]

[oldbike54]

 Yeah , well no ... it is a bit more complicated than that . Search "crabbing the frame" , that will give you a much better idea . It isn't rocket surgery , but the first time can be , er , frustrating . As in all endeavors , patience and the right tools are key .

 Dusty

[jrt]

Which bike?  Your Bassa or your Eldo?

A while back, Pete Roper did a great writeup on crabbing the frame, which is relevant to the Bassa but not the Eldo. 
But Eldo's are pretty dang simple.  They are all heavy, so take care of your back and be careful lifting transmissions and engines.

[normzone]

The Bassa frame requires crabbing? I keep hearing it referred to as a Tonti frame.

[oldbike54]

The Bassa frame requires crabbing? I keep hearing it referred to as a Tonti frame.

 Yes and yes . The old loop frames like on your Eldo required a different process Norm . You can do this , but please do the research before starting , you seem a bit confused 

 Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

Honestly in your case Norm, you would be crazy to do it without some help. I wouldn't want to do it with out a platform to set the bike on. your 2 hands plus 2 more experienced hands will make it about 12 times easier.





I did my first clutch by myself in the living room, taught me a lot.

[normzone]

Honestly in your case Norm, you would be crazy to do it without some help....I did my first clutch by myself in the living room, taught me a lot.

I have some offers of help, both here on the forum and from an old friend, but I think you nailed it when you said " you would be crazy to do it ".

What kind of labor hours is a shop likely to ask for this?

[oldbike54]

I have some offers of help, both here on the forum and from an old friend, but I think you nailed it when you said " you would be crazy to do it ".

What kind of labor hours is a shop likely to ask for this?

 Likely somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 bucks plus parts .

 This isn't an impossible task , but as I said before , do the research before even attempting it . Otherwise , take it to a good shop . Little things like stripped shock bolts and that stupid uncaptured nut under the battery tray can make a guy crazy .

 Dusty

[Testarossa]

I did it myself but I had the engine out of the frame and replaced the timing chain and some gearbox parts at the same time. It was a learning experience and took a looong time (though the clutch was the simplest part). And some special tools are needed. Helpful to have a rattle gun -- you'll probably want to upgrade the spline hub.

[normzone]

"  Likely somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 bucks plus parts . "

That sounds like only five hours of shop labor rate. I cannot envision even a pro doing it in that little time. 

[wavedog]

I have done it twice. I foresee one more time and then hopefully never again. It is not hard, just involved. The first time was on an 03 Cali Stone and the second one was an 01 Jackal. Study the tutorial, take your time, document and photo everything so you can remember where things go when you put it back together. Lots of wires and hoses. Any one who knows me knows that I am a mechanical bonehead, work very slowly and I have Parkinson's. So if I can do it, well almost anyone can. I don't know anything about doing this on any Guzzi other than a Cali. Have fun and bust a knuckle!

[oldbike54]

"  Likely somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 bucks plus parts . "

That sounds like only five hours of shop labor rate. I cannot envision even a pro doing it in that little time. 

 I'm slow and can do one in about 8 hours , others here can do it in less time .

 Dusty

[guzzisteve]

"  Likely somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 bucks plus parts . "

That sounds like only five hours of shop labor rate. I cannot envision even a pro doing it in that little time. 

My fastest time on a Tonti is 45min, to have it gutted. It's cleaning and fixin then assembly that eats the time. Clutch dust is no fun, you'll see.

[blackcat]

I have only done carburetor Tonti frame bikes, and I can casually separate the frame from the engine in less than two hours. Faster if I was in a hurry and that is without hoisting the frame; personally I don't like doing it that way. I use the factory engine stand and go from there.

[nick949]

If I can do it................. ....

[normzone]

I spoke with my local heroes, and they said they've never crabbed a frame, it would be new territory for them.

Sean Fader up in Orange County says he's done several, and it runs 8 - 10 hours, unless there are issues - and there are often issues.

I don't know if I have the ... patience ... to devote a couple of weekends to this in my friends ambient temperature (read: hot) garage. At the  least I'd need to buy a bike lift.

So I'm guessing with parts ( I haven't priced them yet, just spitballing here) and labor, assuming no large surprises, around $2K.

And that's without peeking into the transmission.

[Chuck in Indiana]

My fastest time on a Tonti is 45min, to have it gutted. It's cleaning and fixin then assembly that eats the time. Clutch dust is no fun, you'll see.

What Steve says. I generally take around 2 hours to get it apart. Going back together? That all depends. Maybe 4 hours, maybe considerably more, depending on what you find. I don't think anyone has mentioned special tools that you no doubt don't have, either.

[malik]

When the clutch needed replacing on the V7C (different bike with its own peculiarities) I had a quote of $650 minimum for the labour. Then a mate said "you're retired, aren't you?". Even armed with a few sets of detailed instructions, videos & parts manuals & with assistance (invaluable), the first disassembly took a few days - unfamiliarity has a price in time. We found it easier to go all the way & wheel the frame away, leaving the engine. Gave it a good clean before getting into the grubbing. Not quite as long to get it back together, but did hit some snags - unfamiliarity again. Then we took it apart again (loose preselector) - best part of a day - and then dismantled the wrecked Nevada for its gearbox - half a day - but the bearings were shot, so dismantled the wrecked Breva - some 2 hours by myself this time. By then, I had a pretty good idea what I faced.

Major recommendation - don't try to do it alone - one or two assistants is really golden. Until you become familiar with your machine, there are going to be frustrations. Company, beer, coffee & tea are essential lubricants.

Next recommendation - correct tools make it easier. You might need some "special" tools. Get advice on this.

I'm going to have to do it again - the clutch on the Special is slipping - seeing as my last experience was a couple of years ago, ii'm budgeting half a day for disassembly, half a day for cleaning & replacing the clutch, and half a day to put it back together again - with a standard deviation of half a day at each of those steps. And even then I'd think I'd done well. It always takes longer for us non-professionals.

You do save a lot of money, but the biggest advantage is becoming  really intimate with your bike, the satisfaction of being able to do it, and the comfort of knowing you could do it again. It's no big deal, it just feels that way.

[oldbike54]

What Steve says. I generally take around 2 hours to get it apart. Going back together? That all depends. Maybe 4 hours, maybe considerably more, depending on what you find. I don't think anyone has mentioned special tools that you no doubt don't have, either.

 Yeah , 8 hours for the basic procedure , another 20 hours for dealing with bolts that break , or won't come out . I mentioned that stupid uncaptured nut under the battery tray , how hard would it have been for the factory to weld that sucker on to the bracket under the tray  Still , it can be done by a patient person , and as mentioned , you will know your machine after .

 Dusty

[normzone]

A beginners question - Would I need to pull the tank, or any of the fuel injection gear, or is it all ass-end disassembly, beginning with pulling the seat and the battery and working down and backwards ?

Gosh, I guess that includes brake lines etc. ... Somebody mentioned a Pete Roper how-to.

I'm trying REALLY hard not to consider doing it myself, but some of you guys make it sound so common sense that even I could do it.

[Diploman]

The more modern design of the smallblock engine/drivetrain makes clutch replacement a simpler and faster job than with a bigblock.  Everything is much lighter and easier to lift or maneuver: access is less complicated. Still a relatively big job, however, not a walk in the park.

[fotoguzzi]

A beginners question - Would I need to pull the tank, or any of the fuel injection gear, or is it all ass-end disassembly, beginning with pulling the seat and the battery and working down and backwards ?

Gosh, I guess that includes brake lines etc. ... Somebody mentioned a Pete Roper how-to.

I'm trying REALLY hard not to consider doing it myself, but some of you guys make it sound so common sense that even I could do it.

you don't have to do any brake lines just remove caliper and hang it from the frame. you need the tank off..it will be easier to re-assemble with tank off but that's about the easiest part.
special tools? the only thing I recall is the clutch compression tool.. the rest you just need a full kit of wrenches, open and box end wrenches and sockets with extensions, you will need more than one of some of them, there's lots of 10, 13 and 19mm fasteners. maybe a few 17mm too.

[oldbike54]

A beginners question - Would I need to pull the tank, or any of the fuel injection gear, or is it all ass-end disassembly, beginning with pulling the seat and the battery and working down and backwards ?

Gosh, I guess that includes brake lines etc. ... Somebody mentioned a Pete Roper how-to.

I'm trying REALLY hard not to consider doing it myself, but some of you guys make it sound so common sense that even I could do it.

 Norm , it's time to actually read the tutorial .

 Dusty

[John A]

If you want to learn your bike, do it yourself. if you screw it up, what it costs to get it right is an added cost of the lesson. do much reading and get some help, preferably someone who has done it. I would also take the flywheel off and there is a cam plug near the top that leaks, some worse than others. clean it really well and seal it but not with silicone. lube the drive line splines, service the cush drive which consists of removing the rear wheel drive plate, greasing it in the hole . I like to coat the rubber bumpers with heavy duty silicone, some use grease. Read over it before you start!                                                               

[guzzisteve]

 

Norm , it's time to actually read the tutorial .

 Dusty

This

[Aaron D.]

It takes persistence as much as skill. It isn't all that hard compared to some jobs I've done but may be as arduous a job as there is on a motorcycle-the worst part on a Bassa may be dealing with the airbox.

I've done quite a few. I don't know you so I can't say you should do it yourself, but I did my first one by myself, long before WildGuzzi or Guzziology.

[Tom H]

Sounds like you have help down south of me. You've read what it takes to at least get the trans out. Your local Guzzi shop may be able to rent the clutch alignment tool. The tool is about $50 IIRR. I would give it a whirl. I would recommend doing it in a place that it can sit torn apart for a bit if needed. IIRR, you have a carport, I would like to see it be done in a garage, even a hot one, a 16-20" rotating fan is not that expensive.

On a bit of a side note, the EV bikes use a 4mm spline for the clutch right??? I'm used to my Loops at 2mm and have the tool for that. Can the 2mm tool be used for the 4mm????

Good luck on this!!
Tom

[normzone]

Thank you Tom - Looking forward to seeing you again at the next rally.

Dusty - you must mean THIS one .... http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/pdf/access-gearbox-clutch-big-twin-en-2004-07-04.pdf

[fotoguzzi]

if you dive in the deep end, know how to swim.. I'll loan you my clutch compression tool, it's homemade but works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1tAyC8o298

[oldbike54]

 ^^^ That's the one Norm . If you follow Pete's instructions to the letter the job is doable . The first Tonti frame clutch job I did in about 2002 was done using a set of written instructions provided by a friend , it started out with the sentence ; "Contrary to popular theory , it will not be necessary to remove the forks from the motorcycle , just everything else"  Wasn't even my bike , I am a glutton for punishment 

 Dusty