Convert transmission problems.

[scdrtramp]

hello all, I'm in the middle of restoring my '78 Vert. I have run across a problem getting the converter bell housing off the transmission. The bolts are all out, and the mating surface is free, but I think the clutches are stuck and preventing the drive hub out of the clutch pack. I've tried just about every non-destructive way, and even a couple ways I shouldn't try. I'm sure it's in the clutches, because when I locked the clutch lever in the clutch did not release. I've hardly ever used the clutch much. I'm wondering if any of you has had this problem, and how you got by it. Thanks 8|

[chuck peterson]

There is a clutch adj lever on the back of the trans...maybe adj that tighter, fan the clutch a few times to see if it will release

[rodekyll]

Yes, I think you have the problem identified.  If you lock the clutch lever at full cock, lock the output shaft (vice grips on a splined collar works) and work the t/c output shaft cw/ccw you might rattle the notched clutch bits back into position enough to disengage them.  It's a girl-dog of a problem and is one reason why we don't use the clutch to shift the bike.  Not saying you did, but a '78 has had a lot of years to be abused.

The clutch was designed for scooters and designed as a multiplate, wet pack.  It was never intended as an aid to shifting.  There are some dozen plates with tabs.  The drive tabs rattle and slam against the clutch hub, notching it and causing half the problem.  The driven plates rattle and slam against the clutch basket, notching and jamming themselves into place.  The really bad part is that as they move into increasing notches, they move farther out of line with each other.  The result is exactly the same as a 12-pin lock engaging -- you need to somehow pick that lock.

Read on -- there's a point to the pontification:

I have proven that the convert needs no clutch for anything other than revving the engine without moving the rear wheel.  I have proven that the convert doesn't need to shift once rolling, and I have proven that if you WANT to shift while rolling, the clutch isn't needed.  I rode mine to the four corners of the Alaska road system (stopped at Fairbanks on the northern outbound leg) with the transmission in high gear and the clutch and shifter at home in the garage.  It did the entire trip (~2200 miles) loaded heavy and locked in high range. 



I'm in the process of confirming all of that by building a machine with the torque converter directly driving the rear gears with no gearbox at all.  I've got 500 miles on the project so far and so far it acts like it ought to.



In another experiment I drilled through the plates in the clutch pack and pressed in roll pins.  This locked the clutch permanently -- it cannot be used.  Once you get yours apart, you might want to do the same, since the clutch components are largely unobtanium and hella-spendy if you can find them.

[scdrtramp]

Thank's for the input. This bike only has 22,000 on it and I've put over half that. I have never used the clutch. I don't think it would be too hard to make a locker to do away with the clutch all together.  The main reason I want in there is to replace the seals. I only shift it. If I'm in the mountains and I use low only, other than that High is all it needs I've never shifted it on the fly. I'm thinking the clutch is just gummed up. I have the clutch arm adj all the way in and locked with a ziptie. Both shafts are locked together, but I.m still working on them. I sprayed a bunch of WD-40 down the clutch rod shaft.  Thanks again.   

[rodekyll]

If it's a simple matter of the clutch plates gummed up together (it happens) then the hub part that's attached to the torque converter driven shaft should still slip out of the clutch pack.  The only thing that can prevent an otherwise loose bellhousing from parting (You ABSOLUTELY sure you got all the fasteners removed?) is the clutch pack wedged into basket/hub notches. 

A couple more thoughts:

use your turning force opposite the normal rotation direction.

Maybe have a friend operate an air hammer against the t/c shaft end while you work vicegrips or stilson wrenches on the shafts in opposite directions (and opposite normal direction of rotation).

That's all I've got.

Oh -- and if you're adventurous, try to figure out how to replace the clutch with a 100 amp alternator.  That would be useful right there.  I did it, but not quite the way you think.

[scdrtramp]

Thank,s for your response Rodekyll. There are only six bolts inside the bell housing to the gear box. I'm using a haynes manual, and the Moto Guzzi shop manual. I have looked all over it and can find no other bolts. When I do manage to pry it loose about a 1/16th of an inch, it pops shut like it is tight. I've used heat a few times, but the heat don't get to the clutch pack. There is no rust around the dowels that I can see, and I've pried it open all around it, but if I pry one side, the other side cannot be moved. I've been a mechanic all my life, and have worked on just about all motorcycles, and can't remember something like this happening. I shot a bunch of WD-40 down the clutch pull rod. My next step is to try to break the clutches loose. Again, Thanks for the help.

[jmee54]

It is so frustrating when there is no conclusion to a post!

[JayDee24ca]

Yeah, it would be nice to read the end of the story. Whatever happened to Rodekyll??