Author Topic: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road  (Read 116993 times)

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #270 on: November 16, 2017, 10:19:32 PM »
fitting new throttle cables





grease the throttle body, fit the cables onto the guides



looks odd but this is the position of the throttle and cables I see on pictures I googled



I routed the fuel lines using Siamese banjo fittings,  on Google the fuel line to the tank routes different from this, probably need to rotate the banjo counter clockwise 90 degrees, the 6 o'clock fitting would then loop a fuel line up to the petcock.



replaced the cap screws and the cable guide screws with new cad plated fasteners, I get picky about not leaving any fastener on a bike that is going to quickly corrode when exposed to moisture. I see a lot of nice builds only to be let down by corrode fasteners, new bolts, screws and nuts are cheap and re-plating existing ones is cost effective



this is the first time I worked on PHF36 carbs with the top cap linkage (Laverda do not use the same top lever assembly on their PHF36 units), impressed with how the throttle cables attaches to the carb, so simple to install or replace the cables without having to pull the slides as on the VHB series or the Laverda equipped PHF units.

Offline Sporteous

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #271 on: November 16, 2017, 11:40:53 PM »
I'm about to fit these same carb tops onto my Mock 1 (SP1000 pretending to be a Mk1 or 2), my question is are the carbs on the wrong sides? Shouldn't the cable holders be facing inwards?
Beautiful work, I believe I have admired your SF750 on the Laverda forum also, I used to have a 3CL 1000 until recently.

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #272 on: November 17, 2017, 10:17:57 AM »
I'm about to fit these same carb tops onto my Mock 1 (SP1000 pretending to be a Mk1 or 2), my question is are the carbs on the wrong sides? Shouldn't the cable holders be facing inwards?
Beautiful work, I believe I have admired your SF750 on the Laverda forum also, I used to have a 3CL 1000 until recently.

Well I will be damned if they the carb tops are not reversed!! :embarrassed:

Thanks for correcting that for me, should have taken a better look at my record pictures

Not like I don't have at least 200 pictures of the 'old' bike'



I am getting to step aside from bike building (and that work thing) for a short get away to go ride in Arizona with my two sons for four days starting Sunday, can barley wait to get out of the snow and cold!
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 12:28:39 PM by canuck750 »

Offline balvenie

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2045
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #273 on: November 17, 2017, 05:20:17 PM »
have a good ride, Jim :thumb:
Oz
04 Cali
As ye practice, so do ye teach.

Wildguzzi.com

Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #273 on: November 17, 2017, 05:20:17 PM »

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #274 on: November 17, 2017, 11:42:46 PM »
Why has the left carb got a "filter" and the right one a bell mouth ?

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 14141
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #275 on: November 18, 2017, 09:09:53 AM »
Why has the left carb got a "filter" and the right one a bell mouth ?

The photo with the bellmouth is "after", the photo with filter was taken "before".
Charlie

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #276 on: November 18, 2017, 11:44:08 AM »
I swapped the carb tops side to side, and rotated the fuel hose banjo, now this looks correct



Got into the distributor as well, replaced the advance springs, the shaft does not sound great, need to tear it down and see what's up



All for now, I step on plane heading south to sunny Arizona this afternoon to ride around Phoenix and Tuscon for four days. My yearly long weekend get away ride wit my two sons.

Offline SED

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1627
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #277 on: November 19, 2017, 08:55:11 PM »
Beautiful work.  Your skill and patience I aspire to.
Thank you.
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #278 on: November 23, 2017, 09:52:29 PM »
Got the header and crossover back from the ceramic coater, Charlie pointed me in the direction of a seller with the stock header and cross over, thanks Charlie!

Ceramic coated the flange and fitted new two piece compression clamps



The ceramic coating is tough but it does mark quite easily



I fitted a new pair of LaFranconi reproduction mufflers, the reproduction is so close to original right down to the shamefully terrible paint job



Left Side too shiny, right side dull and patchy



The paint on the mufflers is so lousy it starts to wipe off with wax remover!!





I will take them off and get them ceramic coated, really disappointed in how LaFranconi can sell a new pair of mufflers so poorly finished!

Back to the distributor, I have another one in my stash that turns very smoothly and the points plate is not corroded, the numbers stamped on the distributors is not the same and the spare one I have has an O ring fitted into the body, the one that came on the bike does not have an O ring

Le Mans stock distributor



My spare with an O ring



Anyone know if I can fit the O ring style distributor?








Online Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 14141
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #279 on: November 24, 2017, 08:46:35 AM »
Not a terribly difficult job to rebuild the original distributor. Bearings are 6001-RS1, the o-rings are the same as the ones for the cylinder studs. The hardest part is removing the pin securing the drive gear to the shaft.
http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_tonti_distributor_disassembly-_bearings-_and_.html
Charlie

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #280 on: November 24, 2017, 11:41:21 AM »
Not a terribly difficult job to rebuild the original distributor. Bearings are 6001-RS1, the o-rings are the same as the ones for the cylinder studs. The hardest part is removing the pin securing the drive gear to the shaft.
http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_tonti_distributor_disassembly-_bearings-_and_.html

Thanks Charlie!

Do you know if the distributors are interchangeable?

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 14141
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #281 on: November 24, 2017, 12:18:03 PM »
Thanks Charlie!

Do you know if the distributors are interchangeable?

Sorry, I don't.
Charlie

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #282 on: November 25, 2017, 01:01:06 PM »
Thanks Charlie for passing me on to the distributor rebuild info, picked up a pair of bearings today, one of them was shot



Getting the pin out of the gear was a treat, now I need to find a similar pin to press back in and peen over



The roll pin for the shaft retainer came out easily enough



O rings are rock hard

Offline Roy gardner

  • Hatchling
  • **
  • Posts: 135
  • Location: NZ
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #283 on: November 25, 2017, 01:21:00 PM »
You are doing a wonderful job on both of these bikes, & someone needs to restore the occasional Benelli. I owned a 650 Tornado once, it was in better condition than yours, I did ride a little & it had some endearing attributes. Cant remember what they were!  However, for one as bad as yours I would have considered using it as donor for more worthy projects.  :grin: The headlight bucket, for example is the same as a V7 Sport, the wheels & forks are great for specials, I used the 38 Marzzochis in my Egli Vincent after I cut 40mm off the stanchions & sliders.  :grin:
MGNOC L112
1973  850 GT (sold 1979)
1974  160 Stornello (bought new 1978)
1972 V7 Sport, (bought 1979, still running strong)
1977 Convert (bought 2009)
1974  850T (ComposT, pawned to buy Vincent parts!
1985? LM 1000 (saved from a savage, has become hotrod Convert)

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 14141
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #284 on: November 25, 2017, 03:11:34 PM »
Getting the pin out of the gear was a treat, now I need to find a similar pin to press back in and peen over

I use a roll pin there also, IMO it's more than adequate for the job. I have a whole baggie of them sent to me by Greg Bender, but that doesn't help you any.  :wink:
Charlie

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #285 on: November 25, 2017, 08:57:28 PM »
I fitted a new roll pin into the retainer ring and a section of hard steel rod through the gear and then heated the ends of the rod and peened them flat,



powder coated the points plate, the electronic ignition uses optical scanners so I don't think a lack of a ground to the distributor body is an issue but I could be wrong,...



Newtronics 'cameras' replace the points



I fitted a new O ring, this one was way too thin and the clamp would not tighten enough to hold the distributor, out it came a much thicker O ring fitted, seems to be correct

and smoothed out the lower body of the distributor casting so it would not bind with the block



I needed to file off the rectangular tab on the underside of the distributor cap, a thick rubber spacer is used between the distributor and the cap

I cracked the plastic rotor fitting it over the cam, new one on order, thank goodness HMB sells individual replacement rotors, need to be 'very gentle' fitting the plastic rotor on.



Wires exit the front of the distributor

Those Guzzi engineers sure didn't leave any wasted space around the distributor, small fingers and a crow foot wrench needed to tighten the clamp bolts



Next to connect the ignition module and high tensions coil leads

Offline TRw1

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 61
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #286 on: November 26, 2017, 08:32:06 AM »
 :popcorn:

Offline SED

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1627
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #287 on: November 26, 2017, 09:03:40 PM »
Looking great!
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #288 on: November 26, 2017, 09:08:48 PM »
Your skill is so far above mine it's laughable and I can accept that.
But where the bloody hell do you get so much patience !!!?

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #289 on: November 27, 2017, 10:34:45 AM »
Your skill is so far above mine it's laughable and I can accept that.
But where the bloody hell do you get so much patience !!!?

I never show pictures of the north wall of my garage where I often fling a tool in anger against the wall :embarassed:

Offline Groover

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2855
  • If it ain't broke, I'll break it.
    • Scooteropolis
  • Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #290 on: November 27, 2017, 10:50:22 AM »
What is the process for ceramic coating? Is it just ceramic based enamel then baked at a certain temp? Why do you think it marks/scuffs easily? Is it the nature of the beast, or did the tech doing the work mess-up somehow? (that's 4 questions in 1-2 lines  :azn:)

1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped
1980 Vespa SI Moped
http://scooteropolis.com/

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #291 on: November 27, 2017, 04:48:57 PM »
What is the process for ceramic coating? Is it just ceramic based enamel then baked at a certain temp? Why do you think it marks/scuffs easily? Is it the nature of the beast, or did the tech doing the work mess-up somehow? (that's 4 questions in 1-2 lines  :azn:)

I don't know much about the ceramic process other than the metal is prepped the same as for powder coating and the coating is sprayed on and is quite thin, it does not fill in like powder. If the base part has nicks or pits on the surface the ceramic coating will not hide the imperfections.  The header that came with the bike was full of rust pits and after blasting and coating it looked pretty poor, I was lucky to find a very good used one to have coated.

The matte black scuffs about the same as it would if the part was painted, doesn't scuff through to the base metal but it marks if rubbed by a tool or for instance the exhaust collars slide down the header when installing the headers (ask how I know). Powder coat is much more durable for abrasion and you can polish up powder coat. The up side is that the ceramic finish does not wear off from heat / cool cycles and washing like a typical dirt bike header does. The header / muffler will also be much cooler to the touch when running.

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #292 on: November 27, 2017, 09:55:49 PM »
I fitted the Newtronic black box to the inside of the rear splash guard, similar location to the fuse box location on a V7 Sport so it shouldn't interfere with the battery.



The Newtronic kit comes with a set of green and red leads that plug into the wire harness leads of the original distributor points connectors, the length of wires just needs to be trimmed and a pvc sheath added to make it look stock





The white wire coming out of the multi pin plug goes down to the coil 12v + tab on the coli



And that's about it for the electronic ignition, just need to fit a new rotor on the distributor cam and then check the timing

New high tensions leads



I set the high tension wire in a vice to drive the brass connector over the end of the wire







Two coil connections finished



And the plug ends terminated



Back to the instruments, I cut the blank cap piece off the damaged bezel



And I glued it over the new bezel with abs cement



fitted the gauges



and then the sub wire harness



and the rubber isolators



tach and speedo cables fitted before I secure the bezel





I had to carefully bend the steel ends of the tach and speedo cables to turn 90 degrees and clear the headlight bucket



while the fairing was off I fitted the rubber trim around the headlight opening, that was a royal pain to get on!



the windscreen goes on after the fairing is attached, getting the nuts on to the inside of the fairing to secure the screen took me the better part of an hour, no room to get fingers in, just a very long needle nose plier and a screwdriver to turn the screw, it helped to loosen the handlebars and fold them in to get more room to the back of the fairing





just a few more wires to connect and the electronics is hopefully done



riders view


Offline TRw1

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 61
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #293 on: November 28, 2017, 04:59:53 AM »
Jim,

Looks like some great dremel work on the bezel!

As always, great patience and outcome.

Ted

Offline Rick4003

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 508
  • Location: Denmark
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #294 on: November 28, 2017, 06:39:34 AM »
Looks the business!

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #295 on: November 28, 2017, 09:39:38 PM »
Finished a few small details, fitted a pair of 8mm bolts with aluminum sealing washers to the top of the FAC dampers



The swing arm cap nuts are stainless steel reproductions and the cap is much thicker than the old steel ones so the plastic plug does not seat into the cap and they keep trying to free themselves from the cap so I spun the cap off and took my soldering gun, melted the inside of the plastic cap and peened the plastic over with the blunt end of a punch.



Installed the battery ground wire and the speedometer cable



Replaced the old suspect relay with a new one Greg Bender supplied with his wire harness kit



Installed the tachometer cable



Terminated the front signal light leads and placed the signal light ground wires on a frame lug



And fitted a round female plug end onto the oil pressure sender wire



MG Cycle has the choke cables back in stock so once they arrive that should be the last new parts I need to fit.

Then to fit a battery and start checking all the electrical is working.

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #296 on: November 29, 2017, 12:16:18 AM »
Beyond description...
And I don't believe the tool throwing thing...
You're above that.

Offline Groover

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2855
  • If it ain't broke, I'll break it.
    • Scooteropolis
  • Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #297 on: November 29, 2017, 01:29:31 AM »
You are really doing a great job on this bike, it's getting a lot of love! As far the caps go, the OEM plugs for the swing arm caps were rubber originally and would actually work at snapping in. The new repro ones out there are hard plastic and don't really work (as you found out too). I don't think they snap in on the steel oem caps either, do they?

With the plugs being pre-snapped in like that, how are you going to fine tune the swing arm bolt adjustment? Sometimes tightening the cap will also spin the swingarm bolt making it too tight, so you might need to hold it with and Allen wrench and use a wrench (not socket) to tighten the cap, which brings me to another point... if I remember correctly, those tighten at a pretty high ft/lbs rate, and in my experience SS doesn't do too well in those cases. Might be ok in your case being those are large diameter bolts. I just question reproduction SS hardware out there on the market a lot after learning their properties (pros and cons), and I just wonder if they actually test their applications properly, or do they just make SS 'stuff'.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 07:05:52 AM by Groover »
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped
1980 Vespa SI Moped
http://scooteropolis.com/

Offline Groover

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2855
  • If it ain't broke, I'll break it.
    • Scooteropolis
  • Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #298 on: November 29, 2017, 01:47:46 AM »
Ok, just looked up the torque specs, and it looks like the caps tighten at 57 ft/lbs. I thought they were ones with crazy high 120 or so values.
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped
1980 Vespa SI Moped
http://scooteropolis.com/

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #299 on: November 29, 2017, 09:44:54 AM »
The stainless steel cap nuts have a thicker body to the top, the depth of the hole is deeper so neither the original rubber plug or the new plastic ones will properly fit. The design is a carry over from the Loop Frame bikes that used a pivot pin that has two holes drilled into the face to accept a 2 pin wrench that can only be fit with the cap off. I don't believe that Guzzi intended to use the cap plug as means of adjusting the pivot pin. I think the purpose of the cap is to lock the position of the pivot pin. I replace the 2 pin type pivot bolt with the newer socket head design, much better than the original 2 pin or the later flat blade type adjuster pin. When I install the pins I oil them and tighten them right up then back them of just a smidge, fit the cap finger tight then give it a twist with a great big open end wrench. I agree that stainless steel is the not the right product for a stressed fastener but the large diameter of the cap probably equates to significant strength for the specified torque, and it looks pretty :wink:

 

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here