Author Topic: Conversion to regular gas.  (Read 886 times)

Offline Zenermaniac

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Conversion to regular gas.
« on: February 14, 2021, 02:33:13 PM »
This is just a future thought exercise. With changing regulations, desire for green vehicles and the oil boom being over I foresee a time ahead where it may be more difficult to get gas - specifically higher octane.  (Maybe Iíve watched to many Mad Max movies.)  What would it take to modify our V7s and V9s to tolerate lower octane fuel.  I realize thereíd be some reduction of power but if it it keeps me riding thatís a small concession.  Would it be as simple as remapping the fueling and ignition timing? Or would we need thicker head gaskets to lower the compression, also? Or am I crazy and should just go sit in the corner? Thoughts?

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2021, 02:38:47 PM »
What are the octane requirements now?

Guzzidiag to mod the timing, thicker head (actually maybe the base) gaskets.
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Offline GeorgiaGuzzi

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2021, 02:46:23 PM »
Corner for you sir!!! Lol

Seriously tho, the base regular gas is actually ďlighterĒ as far as API gravity goes than premium. Which is why premium has a more stable combustion. And why premium will outlast regular imho. And what makes premium better than regular gas after that is just the amount of additives. Iíve got a BOL around here somewhere that shows the details. Donít really want to put it on the interwebs tho because of NDAs. Oil companies are really ticky about that. So, all youíd have to do is retard the timing a bit and add additive and youíd be fine with 87. But trust me, that will not happen in your lifetime. (Really not trying to be flippant or morbid.) Probably not even in mine. The change will happen but it will be generational. Shell is planning on slowing their fossil fuel refining, but itís a decades long phase.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 02:47:46 PM by GeorgiaGuzzi »

oldbike54

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2021, 03:48:31 PM »
 What octane rating do the new small blocks call for , remember , our 87 octane is about 90 octane using the Euro rating method .

 Dusty
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 04:53:21 PM by oldbike54 »

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2021, 03:48:31 PM »

Online Stevex

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2021, 03:55:23 PM »
Don't think most on this forum atm are going to have to worry about that...including me.
Steve
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2021, 04:12:04 PM »
I don't foresee any gasoline shortage so far as anyone wants to buy it. 
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline Zenermaniac

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2021, 11:04:42 PM »
What octane rating do the new small blocks call for , remember , our 87 octane is about 90 octane using the Euro rating method .

 Dusty
My manual says unleaded E10 (95 RON)

oldbike54

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2021, 12:13:32 AM »
My manual says unleaded E10 (95 RON)

 That equals 91 octane in our system , is anyone running 89 seeing a problem ?

 Dusty

Offline bad Chad

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2021, 12:35:46 AM »
New small blocks call for 90 US octane.  I have on occasion had to run 87 in all my Guzzi and didnít notice much if any difference.
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Online nbags

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2021, 04:38:55 AM »
gasoline is not going away in our life time , the amount of ethanol in fuel would go up in the future , octane rating will go down also i'm pretty sure racing fuel would be a choice , here is my opinion how long before they start putting dye in racing fuel like off road diesel fuel has ??? It is going to be some changing times in the next 20 years with gasoline power vehicles. I see heavy fuel taxes in the decade ,that its going financially advantage to get a hybrid / electric vehicle an advantage to own . Its going to be PITA to keep your hi compression carbureted running properly and happy . Just my opinion and have been wrong before .

Online Perazzimx14

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2021, 05:09:17 AM »
I was under the impression that all gasoline right after the refining process was the same. Its not until the different oil companies add their "additives" and/or "octane booster" to make it a certain "grade" of fuel??

In any event if anything happens it'll likely be the opposite of the OP's concerns and "lower" grade fuels (not lower quality) will be obsolete as newer more efficient high compression engines dominate. 
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Offline s1120

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2021, 07:45:59 AM »
Really somthing like a understressed Guzzi engine it would mainly be a case of messing wiht the advance curves a bit. I really dont think it will be a issue though. Todays highly tuned, efficient powerplants will always need a base level grade of fuel. Loosing that would cause a backstep to the older less efficient tunings. We WILL see more and more resources for electric, and Hybrid cars, and bikes..  but I see loosing fuel is something my children will have to worry about. Frankly Im really looking forward to the future of better plug in hybrids... mostly electric, with small super efficient gas engine to extend range when needed.
Paul B

Offline LowRyter

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2021, 08:10:21 AM »
I think any car sold here in the last 10 years will run on 87 octane with no reliability problem.  (This doesn't apply to diesels)

Perhaps that's not true for air cooled motorcycles with no knock sensors?  It might be a different story for legacy vehicles. 
John L 
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Offline Ncdan

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2021, 10:07:37 AM »
Thereís been a few time that 87 was all I could get at a station. I always put only half a tank until I could find another station. However I canít ever remember any adverse results from the 87 octane fuel before mixing the next tank.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 10:44:48 AM by Ncdan »

Online DougG

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2021, 10:27:43 AM »
Hi Moto,                                                                     2-15-21

In the highly unlikely event of any grade of gasoline becoming rare or unavailable in the foreseeable future, I am willing to bet that companies will sell an additive to convert one level of fuel to another...regular to premium or the reverse.  If there is a market for the product...they will come.

Be well, stay well,
DougG
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Online Rough Edge racing

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2021, 11:35:08 AM »
 I work on vintage Triumphs that with their deep hemi combustion chambers are prone to detonation/pinging if the tune isn't perfect or in hot weather...I have made changes on my 79 750 enabling it to run on 89 octane with 9.2 compression with no detonation and more power than stock....
   In theory it's simple, detonation takes time to occur. So the faster the combustion burn,the less time for detonation to occur...And the faster the burn ,the less total timing needed that makes more power...The primary factor affecting burn rate is combustion chamber design. Modern engines have quick burn chambers and electronic engine management to deal with it....Newer small block Guzzis likely have fast burn featues.....
 For ols stuff, A typical approach is two spark plus per cylinder, burn the candle from both ends so to speak. Been done on Guzzis, Airheads , Harleys and Triumphs and does do the job. Or decrease the quench/squish distane between the head and piston.This causes turbulence and tumble that speeds up the combustion with a more complete burn.
  I did the squish clearance on my Triumph. Requires measuring, simple machine work and attention to push rod length and so on...I was able to back off the timing,run higher compression and it'll run away from a stock Triumph...
  Most likely 87 to 91 octane fuel will be availabe for many years....
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Offline moto-uno

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2021, 04:12:20 PM »
  Let's come back to this discussion in a decade  :evil: . Peter

Online chuck peterson

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2021, 01:23:41 PM »
What octane rating do the new small blocks call for , remember , our 87 octane is about 90 octane using the Euro rating method .

 Dusty

Iím running regular unleaded 87 octane in a 2007 Nevada, twin throttle bodies 50-55mpg...nary a peep of detonation goes great
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Online Perazzimx14

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2021, 05:07:19 PM »
That equals 91 octane in our system , is anyone running 89 seeing a problem ?

 Dusty

I only run 110 low lead AV fuel grade then I put in in equal amount to equal at least 50% pf the gasoline  MMO, Seafoam Startron, Stabil, octane booster, kerosene, Techron and STP fuel treatment. Each fill-up cost me $137 but I'm doing the best I can for my motor. I also remove the tank every other fill-up and reline it with POR15a and replace the fuel filter, fuel lines and injectors. I've never had a fuel related issue in the 4 years and 836 miles I've put on the bike.



« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 05:11:44 PM by Perazzimx14 »
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2021, 05:16:05 PM »
You can always put a base shim under base gasket to lower compression, then you'll really save $$ and run crap gas. This is what we did 40yrs ago.
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Online chuck peterson

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2021, 07:12:14 AM »
 :grin:
I only run 110 low lead AV fuel grade then I put in in equal amount to equal at least 50% pf the gasoline  MMO, Seafoam Startron, Stabil, octane booster, kerosene, Techron and STP fuel treatment. Each fill-up cost me $137 but I'm doing the best I can for my motor. I also remove the tank every other fill-up and reline it with POR15a and replace the fuel filter, fuel lines and injectors. I've never had a fuel related issue in the 4 years and 836 miles I've put on the bike.
"I'd like to thank all my friends who have kept my Guzzi's going, but mostly...TOMB."
150k on Verts
750 Nevada
400f
R5 Yammie
BV250
4x 1976 Moto Demm Smily,, now 5, oops now 6, oops now 7
1980 SP1000 in little bits and pieces

oldbike54

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2021, 08:36:18 AM »
 That's funny  :grin:

 Thanks PMX14

 Dusty

Offline Ncdan

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Re: Conversion to regular gas.
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2021, 09:20:22 AM »
That's funny  :grin:

 Thanks PMX14

 Dusty
I think I smell something burning in his kitchen 😂


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Harper's Moto Guzzi
Harper's Moto Guzzi. Where we still answer the phone, use the highest quality parts, and also do Transmission, rear drive, and carb rebuilds fast. Call us at 816.697.3411 and get your problems resolved.
http://www.harpermoto.com
Advertise Here