V7 II VS. Bonneville?

[CapitalGoose]

That does look good in red, even matte red (though I think I might prefer shiny red). Good score! Wish I had one!

Dang, she looks purdy in red!

Thanks guys! I wanted the special but didn't want the spoked wheels (I know, they are gorgeous, but heavy, and I want to be able to do an emergency patch in case of blowout). I do like the shiny red better. But the matte red grown on me every day and I don't see many bikes with a matte finish, not counting rattle-can works of art.

[Kev m]

Thanks guys! I wanted the special but didn't want the spoked wheels (I know, they are gorgeous, but heavy, and I want to be able to do an emergency patch in case of blowout).

Not according to Guzzi. When the 0TB V7 Stone/Special/Racer debuted we were told both the mags and the spokes were lightweight wheels.

[CapitalGoose]

Not according to Guzzi. When the 0TB V7 Stone/Special/Racer debuted we were told both the mags and the spokes were lightweight wheels.

Huh, good to know.

Lightweight as in both the spokes and mags are the same weight or lightweight with respect to the materials used in each type? (i.e. "These are lighter than other mag/steel spoked wheels.")

Either way, the spokes have tubes, no? Or am I mistaken there as well?

[Kev m]

Huh, good to know.

Lightweight as in both the spokes and mags are the same weight or lightweight with respect to the materials used in each type? (i.e. "These are lighter than other mag/steel spoked wheels.")

Either way, the spokes have tubes, no? Or am I mistaken there as well?

We were lead to believe that both the new mags and the new spoke wheels where made of lightweight aluminum and were the same weights. Now this being Guzzi I might not blindly accept that, there may be a difference, but I don't think it is much from that.

You are of course correct, they are still tubed, so like you, I prefer the mags. Besides, they are gorgeous.

 

[Loftness]

I've commented on this in other threads, but the Bonnie I owned didn't excite me anywhere close to what the V7 does for me.  Someone earlier was also bringing up the CB1100, which isn't really a fair comparison, but I'd throw that into the same 'boring' category after having ridden one a few times.  My bottom line is that Guzzis really do ooze character.

Beyond that I think most other stuff has been covered here.  I *will* say though that the whole dealer network thing is a little overdone.  If you have one (or more) near you, great.  For the majority of owners that's all they'll ever need.  And for those few times someone might need one 'out of network' they'd probably be just as hard pressed to have a Triumph dealer close to where they are as well.  Hell, here in Cleveland we don't have a Triumph dealer but we have (technically) three Guzzi options. 

[Kev m]

Beyond that I think most other stuff has been covered here.  I *will* say though that the whole dealer network thing is a little overdone.  If you have one (or more) near you, great.  For the majority of owners that's all they'll ever need.  And for those few times someone might need one 'out of network' they'd probably be just as hard pressed to have a Triumph dealer close to where they are as well.  Hell, here in Cleveland we don't have a Triumph dealer but we have (technically) three Guzzi options.

I disagree.

It's FINE if you have ONE GOOD ONE.

But if you only have one, 75 miles away, and they SUCK, what are you going to do?


Now that said, I will admit we're rotten with them here.

Guzzi - FBF (~50 miles), Motorcycle Mall (~90 miles), Coopersburg Eurosports (~80 miles), Europa Macchina (~140 miles)

Though the closest has been horrible, MM has a very bad reputation, Coopersburg Euro is my go to now but is still 2 hours and another state (and tolls if I'm going to direct route) away, and Europa Macchina is far enough that they are my "last resort" though I've heard good things about them.

In contrast - TRIUMPH? I can't sneeze without hitting a dealer

Triumph - Mt. Holly (~10 miles), Xtreme Machines (~40 miles), Manayunk (~35 miles), Hannum's HD/Triumph (~50 miles), Metuchen (~60 miles), Coopersburg Eurosports (~80 miles), Martin's Motosport (~80 miles), L&D (~100 miles)

So in a slightly smaller radius I've got a full DOUBLE the amount of Triumph dealers, not to mention I have two Triumph dealers closer than ANY Guzzi dealers (hell they're even in the same state as me, no bridges/tolls).

[Loftness]

I disagree.

It's FINE if you have ONE GOOD ONE.

But if you only have one, 75 miles away, and they SUCK, what are you going to do?

Well you're probably not going to buy one.  But that's my point.  Most owners are only going to need a dealer to be near where they live (ie the majority of owners stay local...though I will admit that older Guzzi owners do seem to travel more).

But your dealer situation applies to people in your area.  The dealer situation here applies to people in my area.  Etc, etc.  Talking about dealer networks in general terms to random people from different areas is kind of pointless. 

[Kev m]

Well you're probably not going to buy one. 

Not going to buy one of what?

Well you're probably not going to buy one.  But that's my point.  Most owners are only going to need a dealer to be near where they live (ie the majority of owners stay local...though I will admit that older Guzzi owners do seem to travel more).

But your dealer situation applies to people in your area.  The dealer situation here applies to people in my area.  Etc, etc.  Talking about dealer networks in general terms to random people from different areas is kind of pointless.

Well yes and no.

Of course it's most important where you live, UNLESS you need help on the road. I suspect strongly that what I see around here (that there is more than double the number of Triumph dealers than Guzzi dealers) is likely more representative of the rest of the country (of course there are exceptions).

That representativeness, if true, speaks to the probability of a touring rider finding help if they need it.

Then again, my answer to that is even if there isn't an MG, Ducati, Triumph, or even a Harley dealer nearby, you're probably never THAT far from a U-Haul, and that's all you REALLY need to get home if you have to.

[Loftness]

"Not going to buy one of what?"

Whatever make and model of bike it is that's being sold at that shitty, far-away dealer. 

Don't take this the wrong way Kev, but often I feel you like to argue just...because.  Your points on this are echoing mine. (I'm trying add the 'beer' emoticon here but it won't let me, so imagine a beer, in my hand, being raised.....now I'm thirsty).

[Kev m]

"Not going to buy one of what?"

Whatever make and model of bike it is that's being sold at that shitty, far-away dealer. 

If you are saying that I'm not likely to buy another Guzzi or Ducati think again... I mean shyte, I've only bought 4 in the past decade. I'm probably not buying one this year, but maybe next, we'll see. Jenn's eyeing up the Scrambler, and I would consider an 850 Guzzi or maybe even a Cali.

Not sure what this had to do with our discussion though?

Don't take this the wrong way Kev, but often I feel you like to argue just...because.  Your points on this are echoing mine. (I'm trying add the 'beer' emoticon here but it won't let me, so imagine a beer, in my hand, being raised.....now I'm thirsty).

I enjoy a debate, and I will play the devil's advocate to examine both side sometimes (in an effort to better understand it). But in this case I don't see how we agree or are echoing each other's sentiments?

I mean, I've come to terms with the fact that Guzzi dealers are farther and fewer between than I'd like.

But I'm not joe-average, for whom I suspect that is a problem and will continue to hinder Guzzi sales.

So my point is that the dealer network IS a concern to a lot of buyers, even some of the few who HAPPEN to be near a good one.

[JeffOlson]

My wife and I have owned two Triumph Modern Classics, my 2014 Thruxton, and her 2013 Bonneville. They are great bikes. Relatively light weight (compared to my Norge), very easy to ride (with a heavy flywheel, making stalling difficult), good looking, very easy to wrench on and modify, with a HUGE supply of billions of after-market bits, and a relatively large dealer network. (We traded my heavily modified Thruxton in on my Norge and my wife's Bonneville in on my new Vespa GTS 300 Super.)

We have never owned a V7, but I see a V7 in our near future (I just haven't told my wife yet). I suppose it would be a bit of a risk, not being next door to a dealer and possibly having to wait for more than a month for parts if something goes wrong, but the V7 is more soul-stirring to me--and that aspect is important, at least to me. Plus, the V7 is still made in Europe, and that, too, is important to me...

[akhileshb@hotmail.com]

I looked at both about a month ago. I need a light bike because I have bad knees and taking the bike in and out of the garage, and parking spots can play havoc on your knees and back if it is heavy.
The Guzzi is lighter by 100 pounds, has more character and soul, is rarer and hence cooler, and has a shaft drive.
It is also made in Italy in the same factory since 1921.

The Triumph is made in Thailand, I believe, is seen all over the place, is 100 lbs heavier, has more horsepower and better dealer support. Also more accessories.
Tulsa has a great Guzzi dealer and mechanic.
I picked the guzzi, hands down.
Mine is a 2014 black stone.

I am new to the forum so if this has been discussed my apologies in advance.
I am currently looking for a modern midsize bike with a retro look. I already have a 68' /2 beemer.
I have driven both a new V7 II Stone and a Triumph Bonneville and each bike felt good to me.
I am leaning towards the V7 II but still undecided. Can anyone give me some insites of choosing one over the other. Again my only background with either bike is brief demo ride. Thanks.

[Penderic]

Cast wheels? Not for me!

You can play music with spoked wheels.
https://vimeo.com/115267783
 

[Sheepdog]

Just for the record, the wet weight difference between a V7 and a Bonneville is 61 lbs. The Triumph puts out 20 more horses, but only 4 more ft/lbs of torque. I'm sure this is why many folks say that power seems comparable. This is according to the Motorcyclist comparo back in 2012, so the bikes were weighed on the same scale and the same dyno was used.

[CapitalGoose]

Guzzi - FBF (~50 miles), Motorcycle Mall (~90 miles), Coopersburg Eurosports (~80 miles), Europa Macchina (~140 miles)

Though the closest has been horrible, MM has a very bad reputation, Coopersburg Euro is my go to now but is still 2 hours and another state (and tolls if I'm going to direct route) away, and Europa Macchina is far enough that they are my "last resort" though I've heard good things about them.

LAMoto in Arlington is pretty decent (my closest dealership). Having said that, Walter at Europa Macchina is awesome. If they were a bit closer I would have bought from them. Small, family owned resto business. If you ask, they'll show you their workshop in the back where they are restoring a GORGEOUS old Bentley (not to mention a couple of old Ducs, vintage Porsches, Morgan 3-wheelers, AND a GT1000 they have for sale.... I always look forward to going there and hanging out and seeing what they're working on.

Thanks for the info on the wheels Kev. I assumed that the spokes were steel and the cast wheels, being alloys of some kind, would be lighter! This is why I love this forum, I learn something new every single time I log in.

OP: GET THE GUZZI!
 :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu

[Jim C]

CapitalGoose,

How on earth do you keep your bike so clean?
Mine has fingerprints all over (still) from the
shippers, but since I live in CA, I'm somewhat
limited on my water usage (has to be recycled).
(Same color, by the way...been drooling for the
satin red since I first saw it.)

Yours looks like it's just had a wash and wax.

Jim

[CapitalGoose]

CapitalGoose,

How on earth do you keep your bike so clean?
Mine has fingerprints all over (still) from the
shippers, but since I live in CA, I'm somewhat
limited on my water usage (has to be recycled).
(Same color, by the way...been drooling for the
satin red since I first saw it.)

Yours looks like it's just had a wash and wax.

Jim

LOL! I just got it, so I wipe it down before getting on and after getting off! I just put the initial 600 miles on her this weekend so she's in for service. I can finally take her out for a real ride soon!

I wanted the red one too! Initially I wanted the shiny red that came on the non-ABS Stone. The satin red has grown on me though. It's just very unique and I wouldn't trade it for anything now.

Thanks for the kind words, sir!

Also.... 

[oldbike54]

Screw the retro look nonsense.  Just ride the /2.

Don't just "look retro," "BE RETRO."

 There is some truth here .

  Dusty

[MGPilot]

... I *will* say though that the whole dealer network thing is a little overdone.  If you have one (or more) near you, great.  For the majority of owners that's all they'll ever need.

Whether it's a car/truck/motorcycle/whatever, I think having a local dealer that you like is crucial. The longer the tours you plan to take, the more a nationwide network becomes important (or relying on your own mechanical skills & the parts you think you can lug along with you {In the early 70's when I owned a '59 MGA, I travelled with enough parts and tools I could do a minor rebuild by the side of the road.}).

Just for the record, the wet weight difference between a V7 and a Bonneville is 61 lbs. The Triumph puts out 20 more horses, but only 4 more ft/lbs of torque.

As Jay Leno likes to say, HP sells cars, torque wins races.  I've really enjoyed a couple of cars I owned that would really scream in the last 1500rpm of their range....but good torque is a lot easier, and sometimes safer to live with.  A better torque to weight ratio makes (for me) a much better experience.....and probably longer clutch life.

[JeffOlson]

Apparently, Triumph will have a "big reveal" on October 28. I am really interested in seeing the new, water-cooled Bonneville, especially the café racer version.

[vntgmx]

Well I currently have a 2014 Triumph Scrambler & just recently got a 2014 V7 Special so I'll just give you my observations of these two. Of course I realize the Bonnie might be a hair different then the Scrambler so take it with a grain of salt. I have logged 3000 miles on the Triumph & just a hair over 800 on the V7. The Triumph has the Arrow 2/1 exhaust with remap & a Dart Fly Screen & TKC80s. I just installed a Dart Marlin Fly Screen on the V7 & rubber is stock. Both have rear racks which I run a Wolfman Tail bag on.
Engine - The Triumph has a smooth non vibey feel & doesn't rev up quite as fast as the V7. The V7 cruises 65-75 better then the Triumph but the Triumph is smoother down low & at slower speeds. Neither are going to blow anyone away with sheer HP but the V7 feels quicker & the Triumph feels more Torquey. Both clutch & shift great but the V7 takes a little more thought when starting out as it seems to have a taller first gear then the Triumph. Both are imo excellent transmissions & are very easy to find neutral with.
Ergos - The Triumph is a physically bigger feeling bike & yes you can feel the weight difference though once in motion it's not a big deal. Handlebars on the Triumph & seating position is more upright & more dirt bike/adv feeling where the V7 tends to lean ever so slightly to a cafe style(for lack of a better description)of riding position if that makes sense. Both are comfortable & I have thus far found both stock seats to be fine for 100 mile jaunts.
Suspension - Both need help here but the Triumph is softer feeling then the V7 but it also bottoms more easily on road dips etc. Neither is going to win any awards here but they are ok again for what I'm doing thus far. You just have to be aware of their limitations if you planning on pushing things which I don't. Both handle well & they both will surprise you on how well they get after it if you care to push them a bit. The lighter weight & smaller size tends to favor the V7 here but the Triumph holds it own.
Brakes - Both have good brakes but the V7 front brake feels stronger then the Triumph but it might also be the weight difference coming into play but there's nothing to complain about here on either bike unless you are expecting sport bike or Motard type of performance.
Misc - If you care to do any off road exploring the Triumph is surprisingly game as I've had mine on trails that I wouldn't think of taking the V7 even if I had proper tires on it. It really handles things straight forward & doesn't throw any surprises at you. For pure street & highway speeds I would favor the V7 as it is smoother up top & more willing to do that for long stretches in my brief experiences. Both are fun bikes & imo both look terrific & I don't think you can really make a bad choice.

[Kev m]

Well I currently have a 2014 Triumph Scrambler & just recently got a 2014 V7 Special so I'll just give you my observations of these two. Of course I realize the Bonnie might be a hair different then the Scrambler so take it with a grain of salt. I have logged 3000 miles on the Triumph & just a hair over 800 on the V7. The Triumph has the Arrow 2/1 exhaust with remap & a Dart Fly Screen & TKC80s. I just installed a Dart Marlin Fly Screen on the V7 & rubber is stock. Both have rear racks which I run a Wolfman Tail bag on.
Engine - The Triumph has a smooth non vibey feel & doesn't rev up quite as fast as the V7. The V7 cruises 65-75 better then the Triumph but the Triumph is smoother down low & at slower speeds. Neither are going to blow anyone away with sheer HP but the V7 feels quicker & the Triumph feels more Torquey. Both clutch & shift great but the V7 takes a little more thought when starting out as it seems to have a taller first gear then the Triumph. Both are imo excellent transmissions & are very easy to find neutral with.
Ergos - The Triumph is a physically bigger feeling bike & yes you can feel the weight difference though once in motion it's not a big deal. Handlebars on the Triumph & seating position is more upright & more dirt bike/adv feeling where the V7 tends to lean ever so slightly to a cafe style(for lack of a better description)of riding position if that makes sense. Both are comfortable & I have thus far found both stock seats to be fine for 100 mile jaunts.
Suspension - Both need help here but the Triumph is softer feeling then the V7 but it also bottoms more easily on road dips etc. Neither is going to win any awards here but they are ok again for what I'm doing thus far. You just have to be aware of their limitations if you planning on pushing things which I don't. Both handle well & they both will surprise you on how well they get after it if you care to push them a bit. The lighter weight & smaller size tends to favor the V7 here but the Triumph holds it own.
Brakes - Both have good brakes but the V7 front brake feels stronger then the Triumph but it might also be the weight difference coming into play but there's nothing to complain about here on either bike unless you are expecting sport bike or Motard type of performance.
Misc - If you care to do any off road exploring the Triumph is surprisingly game as I've had mine on trails that I wouldn't think of taking the V7 even if I had proper tires on it. It really handles things straight forward & doesn't throw any surprises at you. For pure street & highway speeds I would favor the V7 as it is smoother up top & more willing to do that for long stretches in my brief experiences. Both are fun bikes & imo both look terrific & I don't think you can really make a bad choice.

  That sounds like a pretty fair and balanced report.

Thanks for chiming in!

[Sheepdog]

Scramblers have 270 degree motors. Bonnevilles/Thruxtons have 360 degree motors. The difference is more substantial than you might imagine. There is also a noticeable diff between 865 and 790cc motors...

[kingoffleece]

I've had three Bonnies and now a V7.
Enjoyed and enjoying both bikes the same.  No  bad choice IMHO.

[MariusD]

vntgmx:

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. Very useful comparison you provided there. :)

[Kev m]

Scramblers have 270 degree motors. Bonnevilles/Thruxtons have 360 degree motors. The difference is more substantial than you might imagine. There is also a noticeable diff between 865 and 790cc motors...

I'm sure there are differences in power levels and character, but how substantial they appear to be will probably vary a lot with the individual rider.

[vntgmx]

vntgmx:

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. Very useful comparison you provided there. :)

You got it and FYI I've ridden a buddy's first year injected Bonnie & much of what I feel about the Scrambler applies to the Bonnie except of course the off road capabilities. Like I said earlier they are both good choices & I'm sure you'll be happy with either one.

[Sheepdog]

I'm sure there are differences in power levels and character, but how substantial they appear to be will probably vary a lot with the individual rider.

You pretty much nailed it, Kev. I suppose it might be nuance to someone new to Hinckley Bonnevilles, but those 270 degree motors are much more tractable than the 360s. The 360 degree 790s are the free-breathing opposite...they even have a different cam profile than the 865s. They respond beautifully to an aftermarket ignition module that allows more rpms, and things that enhance breathing...if you like that sort of thing (I do). Even the sound varies with th 360s sounding like bored-out Meriden Triumphs and the 270s sounding more "potato-potato-like" (you'll need aftermarket silencers to tell). The Triumphs (like the V7s) are much-loved for good reasons.

[Kev m]

I've only ridden the 360's, and would be curious to feel the difference, but I suspect I prefer the 360's just from the descriptions (and I've liked what I've ridden).

[CapitalGoose]

Well I currently have a 2014 Triumph Scrambler & just recently got a 2014 V7 Special so I'll just give you my observations of these two. Of course I realize the Bonnie might be a hair different then the Scrambler so take it with a grain of salt. I have logged 3000 miles on the Triumph & just a hair over 800 on the V7. The Triumph has the Arrow 2/1 exhaust with remap & a Dart Fly Screen & TKC80s. I just installed a Dart Marlin Fly Screen on the V7 & rubber is stock. Both have rear racks which I run a Wolfman Tail bag on.
Engine - The Triumph has a smooth non vibey feel & doesn't rev up quite as fast as the V7. The V7 cruises 65-75 better then the Triumph but the Triumph is smoother down low & at slower speeds. Neither are going to blow anyone away with sheer HP but the V7 feels quicker & the Triumph feels more Torquey. Both clutch & shift great but the V7 takes a little more thought when starting out as it seems to have a taller first gear then the Triumph. Both are imo excellent transmissions & are very easy to find neutral with.
Ergos - The Triumph is a physically bigger feeling bike & yes you can feel the weight difference though once in motion it's not a big deal. Handlebars on the Triumph & seating position is more upright & more dirt bike/adv feeling where the V7 tends to lean ever so slightly to a cafe style(for lack of a better description)of riding position if that makes sense. Both are comfortable & I have thus far found both stock seats to be fine for 100 mile jaunts.
Suspension - Both need help here but the Triumph is softer feeling then the V7 but it also bottoms more easily on road dips etc. Neither is going to win any awards here but they are ok again for what I'm doing thus far. You just have to be aware of their limitations if you planning on pushing things which I don't. Both handle well & they both will surprise you on how well they get after it if you care to push them a bit. The lighter weight & smaller size tends to favor the V7 here but the Triumph holds it own.
Brakes - Both have good brakes but the V7 front brake feels stronger then the Triumph but it might also be the weight difference coming into play but there's nothing to complain about here on either bike unless you are expecting sport bike or Motard type of performance.
Misc - If you care to do any off road exploring the Triumph is surprisingly game as I've had mine on trails that I wouldn't think of taking the V7 even if I had proper tires on it. It really handles things straight forward & doesn't throw any surprises at you. For pure street & highway speeds I would favor the V7 as it is smoother up top & more willing to do that for long stretches in my brief experiences. Both are fun bikes & imo both look terrific & I don't think you can really make a bad choice.

Yep. What Kev said.