V7 II Stuttering, stalling

[Jim C]

So...

I go for a ride on my recently fixed V7 II. All seems fine for a while. I go to one
of my favorite places for breakfast. So far, so good, although the bike was surging
on starting. Get to my breakfast place, eat, read the paper, get back on the bike.

Start up, the bike stutters, and stalls. Starts right back up, release the clutch,
rotate throttle, bike almost dies on me, have to give it a LOT of gas. Fuel light
comes on (way too early), imho). Get to an intersection, bike dies. Starts back
up, but it seems likes it doesn't start the way it should. It starts kind of slow
(rrRR, rrRRR, rrRRRRRR) then starts, as opposed to rrvroom). Thought I might
be out of gas, since the fuel light came on, so I stopped and got gas. Filled up
with 3.910 gallons, meaning I STILL had 1.6 gallons left. I have no idea why
the light came on so early. (It stalled (dead) twice on me, but I don't remember
where the second time was, but it WAS at an intersection.

I can appreciate a bike with character, but I'd like to actually be able to ride the
thing without having to worry about it crapping out on me.

Anyone got any ideas/thoughts?


Jim

[sign216]

What work was recently done on it?

I hate to send someone to a dealer, but a look with a diagnostic scan tool should find the issue.
Or see a fellow rider who has a private scan tool (Guzzidiag, etc).

[pete roper]

Sounds like the problem Craig's bike had after the factory update. Nobody at the importer or factory seemed even remotely interested in helping  try and sort it. "Wait for the next update." Sez they. No update was forthcoming.

Pete

[DaSwami]

Wow, sorry to hear this, my V7 II runs great and I don't want any "update" to screw with it. 

[ITSec]

As Pete said, the first place to check is to ask the dealer whether the ECU was updated when it was in for service. I'd also check that anything they may have touched as part of the service was correctly reconnected etc.

[Jim C]

Sorry for the confusion everyone, but the fixing was merely adjusting
the clutch at the gearbox. (Which works great now, btw).

Anyway, haven't done my first service yet, what with selling my house
and getting ready to move from CA to ID. Lucky I had time to ride it
today. I'll have to do my first service myself, since there are absolutely
no dealers anywhere in Idaho.

Hopefully GuzziDiag will have a map soon so I can load it onto my bike
by the time I get up there. This really sucks...

Jim

[pete roper]

Mark just sorted out a map for Charlie's missus V7 single TB. This is a five speed but I can't remember if it's a wet or dry alternator model which will probably make a difference, (I have no idea why!).

While Craig's V7-II map went well and was essentially straightforward. The earlier bike had a glitch due, as I understand it, to the TPS signal interpretation. Having said that this appears to have been nutted out but MUIG3 maps are in a VERY early stage of development so it's small steps at the moment.

As always. Anything Mark develops promises no stupidly unfeasible 'Power Increases' so if you want your V7 to make 60 RWHP I suggest you go see a charlatan.

Pete

[Jim C]

Pete,

Not looking for power increase, just no stuttering, stalling.
All I want is smooth power delivery on and off, no surging
on start-up, no stuttering when I get on the throttle, no
stalling at intersections or stop signs. I would love to see
my bike perform like Craig's 'guinea pig' bike. Looking
forward to reading the results after a reasonably long ride.
I understand about baby steps on the V7 II MAP right now.

Best regards...

Jim

[pete roper]

Do you have the reader and writer programmes? If 'Yes' PM Mark. I dunno if he's charging for the MUIG3 maps yet. Get in on the ground floor and you can be part of the development process.

Pete

[Zoom Zoom]

What happened after you filled it up? (You didn't note if it happened before and after or only before.)

If only before, did it run ok after fueling it up?

Did you hear an inrush of air when you opened the cap?

Perhaps a tank venting issue???

John Henry

[sign216]

I hate to send someone to a dealer, but a look with a diagnostic scan tool should find the issue.
Or see a fellow rider who has a private scan tool (Guzzidiag, etc).

Jim, maybe I misunderstood.  Do you have the factory map, or a Guzzidiag map?

If you've factory stuff, then scanning it may show the issue.  I don't think you should be changing the map, etc, until the bike is running ok as a stock machine first.

[Jim C]

Sign216,

It's the factory map. My closest dealer is about 40 miles,
which isn't too bad, but I'll have to put it on a flat-bed
tow truck to get it there. I'd rather not take the chance
of having it stall (aka die) on me on the freeway.

Does anyone have the factory MAP number currently
being used for the US 2016 V7 II?

Thanks for any help... you guys are great!

Jim

[pauldaytona]

CM228306 4533V796_V7II is latest

[Jim C]

Paul,

Thanks for posting the most recent factory MAP number.
Much appreciated!


Jim

[sib]

Wow, sorry to hear this, my V7 II runs great and I don't want any "update" to screw with it.

Ditto.

[rocker59]

So...
  Thought I might be out of gas, since the fuel light came on, so I stopped and got gas. Filled up
with 3.910 gallons, meaning I STILL had 1.6 gallons left. I have no idea why
the light came on so early. (It stalled (dead) twice on me, but I don't remember
where the second time was, but it WAS at an intersection.
 

Jim, the light on these things comes on early.  My 2014 V7 Special is about the same.  It comes on at 3.7 - 3.8 gallons consumed every time.

[Jim C]

Pete,

Do you have the reader and writer programmes?

Not yet, but they're easily downloadable, but I imagine I would have to get
the cables as well.

If 'Yes' PM Mark. I dunno if he's charging for the MUIG3 maps yet.

I don't know what he'll charge for the MAPs, but if it makes the bike run like it should,
(or better), I'll be a happy camper and the price will be worth it.

Get in on the ground floor and you can be part of the development process.

That might be fun —

[pete roper]

Yup, you'll need cables too. We know that Mark has a map that works but as stated its still a work in progress. PM him, (Beetle.) and see what the go is? All the mapping work is Mark's remit. I'm simply the messenger and trying to explain in simple, easily understood language, what is trying to be achieved.

The aim is not to produce unfeasibly big horsepower figures on a dyno stuffed with pygmy horses. The aim is simply to get the vehicles to run optimally. The other upside to this is that they will also usually be more economical and a lot more enjoyable to ride.

Pete

[SeanF]

Pardon the minor thread drift...but is it possible to configure the small blocks to run on lower octane fuel through map manipulation? Thinking of possibly riding my '14 v7 through some parts of the developing world.

[pete roper]

The Heron head actually handles low octane fuels really well but my guess would be that you could pull out a bit of spark and adjust the relevant tables and get it to run just fine on any old lizard piss. Yes, you'd sacrifice some of its already less than stellar performance but it would run just fine.

One thing to be aware of is that the small block chassis will not take kindly to serious abuse of the 'Off Road' kind. Back when the factory was competing in the Dakar with the NTX and the like it soon became apparent that the gearbox mounted swingarm was entirely insufficient. It wasn't the arm itself but the gearbox encase that was the Achilles Heel and as someone else said on another board if it was used in anger, or even mild annoyance, it would snap the encase off the back of the box.

Oh how I wish they'd build a mini Stelvio with the V9 engine and gearbox but a real frame and suspension!

Pete

[Jim C]

Pete,

So, I understand that I need specific software for  the MUIG3-specific to the V7 II.
There's also different cables on the GuzziDiag Tutorial page, but I don't know which
ones I'll need.

I understand that the MAP is not ready yet, so I'll just be patient and wait. Any MAP
that makes my bike run optimally is the one for me, and I look forward to the day
when I can ride my bike worry-free.

Jim

[SeanF]

The Heron head actually handles low octane fuels really well but my guess would be that you could pull out a bit of spark and adjust the relevant tables and get it to run just fine on any old lizard piss. Yes, you'd sacrifice some of its already less than stellar performance but it would run just fine.

One thing to be aware of is that the small block chassis will not take kindly to serious abuse of the 'Off Road' kind. Back when the factory was competing in the Dakar with the NTX and the like it soon became apparent that the gearbox mounted swingarm was entirely insufficient. It wasn't the arm itself but the gearbox encase that was the Achilles Heel and as someone else said on another board if it was used in anger, or even mild annoyance, it would snap the encase off the back of the box.

Oh how I wish they'd build a mini Stelvio with the V9 engine and gearbox but a real frame and suspension!

Pete

Thanks Pete. Agree, this wouldn't be the right tool for bashing through the rough stuff.

[pete roper]

Pete,

So, I understand that I need specific software for  the MUIG3-specific to the V7 II.
There's also different cables on the GuzziDiag Tutorial page, but I don't know which
ones I'll need.

I understand that the MAP is not ready yet, so I'll just be patient and wait. Any MAP
that makes my bike run optimally is the one for me, and I look forward to the day
when I can ride my bike worry-free.

Jim

Nah. Same cables just different reader and writer.

Buy cables, download Guzzidiag and make a donation to the developers, learn to read your stock map and save it in case you have a problem. Ask Mark nicely for map, he may ask for payment, he may not. Rode your bike and GIVE FEEDBACK! I can't emphasise how important this is! It is VERY hard to help people if they don't give feedback.

I'd also like to add on Mark's behalf because he's far to bloody polite that map development of the sort he undertakes is NOT simple, easy or cheap. More than anything else it is the TIME component that some people either take for granted or seem to consider valueless. It isn't. Really. Hours of work plus fuel and dyno time have gone into the development of the Griso maps and to a lesser extent the other W5AM bikes. To develop stuff for the MUIG 3 will possibly be even more challenging.

No reason to wait though. If you want independent corroboration of what has been done already just PM Clancy!

Pete

[Clancy]

Jim, it's really not difficult or expensive.

Read the start of this thread just to familiarise yourself with GuzziDiag.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69168.0

Get the cable interface from here - seriously, FROM HERE! They work, no brainer.
http://lonelec.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=57_20&product_id=51

Download the software from here.
http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

You need
- GuzziDiag V0.47 (This enables you to view diagnostics live)
- IAWMIUG3Reader (This enables you to upload and save the current map in the bike)
- IAWMIUG3Writer (This enables you to download a new map to the bike)

I'm running Windows 7 and it was simple Plug & Play (I know, amazing!)
Start by opening GuzziDaig to confirm you have connection.
Then run the Reader and upload/save the current map. (Make another backup copy if you want) - now nothing can go wrong because you can always re-download the factory map.
Talk sweetly to Mark (Beetle) and offer some kind of recognition for his work!
Run the Writer to download the new map.
Test the bike. Give feedback.
DONATE TO THE GUZZIDIAG GUY(S) - They've put in a lot of effort for YOUR benefit.

Think of it as another way to have fun with your machine.

I've spent my life writing programs on PLC/DDC for factory automated production lines & building management systems.
I wish the interface for every commercial product I've used was this simple!

[Jim C]

Jim, the light on these things comes on early.  My 2014 V7 Special is about the same.  It comes on at 3.7 - 3.8 gallons consumed every time.

Thanks, Rocker...I thought the light would come on closer to empty, but I  guess not.
Nice to know I've still got some gas when the light DOES come on.

Best regards,

Jim

[Jim C]

Craig,

Thanks so much for posting all this. I have hope that I will soon
have a sweet-running V7 II that should have had this from the
factory.

All you guys associated with building these MAPs for us, and GuzziDiag
thank you, thank you, thank you. I have to wait now for cables, but I'm
sure it'll be worth it. Compensation forthcoming once it's all sorted.

Hopefully I'll be able to do this before I move...time will tell.

Warmest regards to all,

Jim

[Toecutter]

Get rid of the canister.

Plus, you should have a good 80-100 km in the tank after the light comes on.

[beetle]

Jim, when you get your cables, send me a PM and I'll flick you a map.  I need a volunteer tester in the US, and I've picked you.

All I ask is for feedback and your undying love.

[timonbik]

Did the problem clear after about  5 minutes run time or did it persist?  If it cleared I'm willing to bet it's a vapour lock in the fuel over flow canister, especially if the bike was sitting in the sun outside your stop point.  Recently fueling, even if NOT OVERFILLED can also exasperate the issue.  Remove the canister and should resolve the problem.

[Jim C]

Jim, when you get your cables, send me a PM and I'll flick you a map.  I need a volunteer tester in the US, and I've picked you.

Beetle, Honored to be your guinea pig in the US.    Will PM as soon as I get
my cables. They are currently en route.

All I ask is for feedback and your undying love.

I'll give plenty of feedback when done. As far as undying love?
I'll send cash, but that's the best I can do.

Will advise, and thanks...

Jim