small Guzzi: newer or vintage?

[Mwether]

Hi, all:

LOONG-time lurker who's taken about four years to determine that a smaller Guzzi is just about the perfect bike for me. I'm jockey-esque in stature (5'7"/140) and live in a motorcycling mecca, with days and days worth of fantastic mountainous two-lane in every direction. In addition to day trips (and longer), there's a good chance the bike would often be used as a suburban commuter too.

Given this scenario, I see V-twin torque, 7/8 size, lighter curb weight, big tank, and shaft as tremendous advantages. I don't believe there is any other manufacturer making a bike with the same combination of attributes.

My next decision is whether to go with the newest post-2012 (metal tank) V7 I can afford or to look for something even sweeter IMHO (and often cheaper) like an 850-T3 or a V65SP? The first issue is that I have only seen V7s in the wild. I have no sense of how the older bikes relate to the modern bikes in terms of scale, dimensions, agility, etc. Is an 850-T considerably bigger? One reviewer—while loving the bike—called a V1000G5 "ponderous." (Not that I'm considering a liter bike. I had an '05 Multistrada which was great, but it's overkill for the current philosophy of use.)

The second issue is maximizing the ride:wrench ratio. It seems that for reliability, parts availability, etc., I should go with a newer bike, but I trust the collective WG expertise to straighten me out on that one! I'm happy to do routine maintenance, but I'd like to "hop on it and go" as much as is possible for an Italian bike. 

Grateful to hear your thoughts and experiences.

Jeff
Arden NC

[xackley]

To get a well sorted older motorcycle will cost as much or more than a newer used motorcycle.
The benefit of an older motorcycle is they were designed by humans and were easier to fix if something goes wrong. But the odds of problems is no greater than that of a modern motorcycle.

But then again I am gravitating to the V7 III as a good balance between old and new, thinking add gas and go.
This guy knows how to use a guzzi to it's full.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9S85OvcRCw

[Dirk_S]

You live awfully close to Mayor of BBQ, and he has a few Guzzis in his den. You should ask for his thoughts (if he doesn’t see this thread)

[Scout63]

My .02 as a relative MG newbie without any experience with newer Guzzis:  Tonti big blocks are torquey and so cool.  The G5 does look ponderous but doesn’t feel it underway. Any bike more than ten or fifteen years old will need care and maybe sorting.  I love that part of it but if you just want to ride, a newer FI v7 or v85 may be just the ticket. Best of luck and post pictures. Ben

[Muzz]

I have a 2003 Breva 750, had it since new.

There is a very good reason why I still have it.

[huub]

the 850T is a bigblock , and 50 kilo heavier than the other bikes you mention
might or might not be a issue. if you look for something lightweight, skip that one.

The 650 SP is a weird attempt to make a small touring bike, it does not work well as a package.
IMHO the engine lacks grunt to work as a tourer.
they are 35 years old now, not a problem if you find a well cared for example, but you take a risk, if it needs a rebuild it will be expensive.
i think you cant go wrong with a current 750 V7 model.
you can let your wallet decide what type of V7.

[Mwether]

To get a well sorted older motorcycle will cost as much or more than a newer used motorcycle.

Super helpful, thanks!
And those Nick Adams videos are amazing—also the sort of thing that makes me want an older bike!

[Mwether]

You live awfully close to Mayor of BBQ, and he has a few Guzzis in his den. You should ask for his thoughts (if he doesn’t see this thread)

Thanks! I also need to look up Earl Totman, who is another local Guzzi guru. Same guy, maybe?

[Mwether]

...if you just want to ride, a newer FI v7 or v85 may be just the ticket. Best of luck and post pictures. Ben

Thanks, and will do!

[Mwether]

I have a 2003 Breva 750, had it since new.

There is a very good reason why I still have it.

Thanks, Muzz. I have never heard a bad word about the little Breva.
I'm bummed that, try as I might, the styling does not speak to me. 

[Mwether]

i think you cant go wrong with a current 750 V7 model.
you can let your wallet decide what type of V7.

Thanks, huub. A consensus is emerging!
I also really appreciate your insight on the other models I mentioned. 

[Dirk_S]

Thanks! I also need to look up Earl Totman, who is another local Guzzi guru. Same guy, maybe?

Not the same, but Mayor spoke to me of a local Guzzi guru. That might be the same gent.

[Mwether]

Not the same, but Mayor spoke to me of a local Guzzi guru. That might be the same gent.

Thanks, Dirk. I'll PM the Mayor.

BTW, your art is fantastic. Deadlifting Jesus made me chuckle; in my experience that dude's always been stronger than he looks! 

[cliffrod]

You're closer to the Mayor than to me.  I'm in Boiling Springs near Spartanburg, not far from I-26/I-85 intersection.  Earl is over in Black Mountain.  You could go over to the Greenhouse Cafe in Mills River and conveniently peruse the older Guzzis that Jeff has on display for in-person context.

A Tonti framed bike is a nice bike.  Approx 500lbs in general.  A V1000 G5 is not as slender and concise as an 850 T, T3 or any of the sport models like my V7 Sport, but I personally think that an Ambassador or Eldorado is more ponderous if the word is going to be used.  I prefer the older bikes, but that's me.  Since you won't be getting parts cheap & in stock at the local Asheville Moto Guzzi dealership (...........) you just need to decide whether you would rather order parts from/via an actual new MG dealership somewhere else or from a trusted source like Harpers or MG Cycle for older models.

Honestly, if you're thinking about late model bikes, depth of resource and the best reputation going, you'll get the best bang for your buck & time investment to make a weekend trip to Cadre in Cincinnati- drive up Fri, see them on Sat and drive/ride home Sun.  There isn't anywhere I know of that's closer or has the equivalent Guzzi world to offer.

Welcome to WG.   If you're down this way, feel welcome to stop by and see my crunchy old stuff.

[johnk]

Ditto on what someone above said about the 850T. Nice bikes but built on the larger, heavier platform. I have (and love) an older small block but the newer ones are overall much better motorcycles out-of-the-box. Nothing better than modern suspension and brakes.

[mechanicsavant]

I started riding @ 16 , I’m now 70 . I’ve been through quite a few bikes in those years , and some 300k Mi. Lots of Moto camping too . Currently I’ve 2 small blocks a V7II (well sorted ) & a V7/850 . Very happy with both . Oh , I’m vertically challenged @ 5’5” & can flat foot both bikes . So , IMHO + 1 on small blocks .

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I think a V7II or V7III

If you want a vintage bike, go with a 850-T or T3 over any of the smallblocks.

The old smallblocks are cheap, but they arent all that common, and many of them need a fair bit of sorting out to make them sing (rear drive mods, new valves & springs, convert to electronic ignition, etc).
I have a v65, but honestly I would have been better off getting a V7 classic.

I sent you Earl's # in a PM. He has/had both a T-3 and a v65sp -- both sorted, good running, and for sale last time I saw him.

[Navydad]

I am very happy with my 2016 V7 II although after riding my buddy's new V85 adventure bike I was tempted. The temptation will pass and I plan on keeping the 16 V7 for a long time. My riding here in SE Ohio is similar to what you are wanting to do and my V7 just does it well. Maintenance on my bike is a snap. I can do fluid changes, valve check/adjust, and have it buttoned up in a little more than an hour and never remove the fuel tank. I also give an A+ to Cadre, but it helps that I'm less than two hours away from them.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

FWIW...

I briefly owned a '13 V7 Stone. Never really "clicked" with it, biggest issue was seat comfort and vibration. I had three seats (low gel, cafe' and modified stock) and only the last was comfortable for more than two hours. Engine vibration might have gotten better as I put more miles on it (only had 2250 miles on it when I got it). Suspension was only okay. Handled great, brakes were adequate. More than enough power for me. Needed a bit of "sorting": factory fueling was horrible, a Beetle map took care of that; it was charging 15.2 volts, so I replaced the o.e. reg./rect. with an aftermarket Mosfet unit.

I now own an '82 V50 III that I got as part of a package deal. Yes, it needed a lot of sorting: wiring issues, someone had put huge car coils on it, oil leaks needed fixed, needed a better breather system to go with the pod filters, all of the usual needs from neglect and only being ridden 800 miles in 20 years.

It has stock fork dampers and Marzocchi Strada rear shocks - suspension works much better than the '13 Stone's ever did. The V50 is near 100 lbs lighter! Handles great, brakes (linked) are nearly as good as the Stone's. The engine is not as powerful of course, but since it's much lighter, it doesn't have to be. Same gas mileage (55 mpg average). Unfortunately, the seat isn't much more comfortable than the Stone's, but I'm working on a fix for that. Sidestand sucks, so I bought a Kawasaki Z750 stand that I will modify to work.

[Mwether]

Welcome to WG.   If you're down this way, feel welcome to stop by and see my crunchy old stuff.

Thanks for this kind invitation and your other insights, AC. I've got a son at college in Spartanburg, so I hope to take you up on it! 

And the sculpture work you do/tradition you are part of is very cool. For me, it's another tick in the marque's column that there are two artists who ride Guzzis in this thread alone.

[Mwether]

... I have (and love) an older small block but the newer ones are overall much better motorcycles out-of-the-box. Nothing better than modern suspension and brakes.

Thanks for this, John! 
I might add FI too! 

[Mwether]

I started riding @ 16 , I’m now 70 . I’ve been through quite a few bikes in those years , and some 300k Mi. Lots of Moto camping too . Currently I’ve 2 small blocks a V7II (well sorted ) & a V7/850 . Very happy with both . Oh , I’m vertically challenged @ 5’5” & can flat foot both bikes . So , IMHO + 1 on small blocks .

Thanks very much! This sort of insight means a lot coming from a guy with 54 years of motorcycling experience!
And "Munchkins unite!' 

PS: I would love the new 850 motor, but they're too new for the used prices to be in my price range.

[Mwether]

I think a V7II or V7III

If you want a vintage bike, go with a 850-T or T3 over any of the smallblocks.

The old smallblocks are cheap, but they arent all that common, and many of them need a fair bit of sorting out to make them sing (rear drive mods, new valves & springs, convert to electronic ignition, etc).
I have a v65, but honestly I would have been better off getting a V7 classic.

I sent you Earl's # in a PM. He has/had both a T-3 and a v65sp -- both sorted, good running, and for sale last time I saw him.

Thanks, Chad. Super helpful. The "dodge old smallblocks for now" advice is exactly the kind of insight (informed by experience) that I was looking for.

Appreciate the PM too. I'll respond there as well.

[Tkelly]

An 850 t5 would be ideal if you are not turned off by the look,no issue with chrome cylinder bores like the early ts.Mywife is smaller than you and had no problems with ours.

[Mwether]

I am very happy with my 2016 V7 II although after riding my buddy's new V85 adventure bike I was tempted. The temptation will pass and I plan on keeping the 16 V7 for a long time. My riding here in SE Ohio is similar to what you are wanting to do and my V7 just does it well. Maintenance on my bike is a snap. I can do fluid changes, valve check/adjust, and have it buttoned up in a little more than an hour and never remove the fuel tank. I also give an A+ to Cadre, but it helps that I'm less than two hours away from them.

Great stuff, ND. Thank you.

Around here, my old Kawi Super Sherpa (never should have sold) would be the ideal adventure bike for me—and as big (250cc) as I would go.

I'm looking for a 90% hard roader, with a well-maintained forest road thrown in on occasion. The smaller size of the V7 is a huge selling point. Not sure on the configuration yet. I might consider the Stornello, or maybe just tires and the higher Arrow pipe? The Rough seems like even more of a styling exercise to me, not sure it has any more actual utility than the regular street models...?

[Anomaly]

Hi, all:

.....My next decision is whether to go with the newest post-2012 (metal tank) V7  .....
Jeff
Arden NC

I have a 2012 V7 Classic-- with the metal tank. Pretty sure it came that way, so I suspect that the later units off the line got the metal tank. I'm enjoying having fuel injection and shaft drive from a maintenance perspective 

[Mwether]

FWIW...

I briefly owned a '13 V7 Stone. Never really "clicked" with it, biggest issue was seat comfort and vibration.

SNIP

I now own an '82 V50 III that I got as part of a package deal.

SNIP

Charlie, it's worth a LOT; I really appreciate a response from someone with your expertise. Thank you.

The V50 is an intriguing bike to be sure. It sounds like this one (and the rest of the fleet) is sort of perpetually for sale:
http://www.retrotours.com/1979-Moto-Guzzi-V50-3713/

The vibration issue with your Stone gives me pause. If you have time to reply:
Where did you feel the vibes? Bars? Pegs? All over? 
Were they constantly intrusive or just at certain RPM?
How did they differ from other Guzzi vibes?

Gratefully,
Jeff

[Mwether]

I have a 2012 V7 Classic-- with the metal tank. Pretty sure it came that way, so I suspect that the later units off the line got the metal tank. I'm enjoying having fuel injection and shaft drive from a maintenance perspective 

Thanks, Anomaly. This matches my understanding that 2012 was the first year for metal tanks on the V7s. Pretty sure that any model year between 2012 and present has a steel tank.

I had a plastic tank on my 2005 Multi DS1000S that Ducati replaced under warranty, but it was a PITA. I'm also pretty sure that the ethanol would have eventually warped the replacement (unless they changed the polymer used in the new part to something more resistant).

[usedtobefast]

Can't believe no one has pointed out the real answer ... you need both!! 

If you only go with the older Guzzi it will need work, and it will be "out of service" for some time, and you may question your thinking.

But ... if you buy a really nice V7 III AND an older Guzzi ... then when your classic needs some work, no worries!  You can take your time.  Some part shows up wrong, gotta send it back, wait another week or so, no big deal as you have the V7 III to ride.  Also, researching the issue and best resolution can be at a leisurely pace vs. feeling in a rush to get it on the road again. 

So you can lovingly look at the older classic bike vs. getting pissed that it needs some more attention.   

[Mwether]

An 850 t5 would be ideal if you are not turned off by the look,no issue with chrome cylinder bores like the early ts.Mywife is smaller than you and had no problems with ours.

Thanks, Tkelly. I dig the 850s aesthetics for sure.

It's just that—unless I can find one pre-sorted and reasonably priced—I'll likely have to do a fair bit of futzing around first. Used V7s seem to be more common and in need of less work to be road worthy...?